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Another warning about approving affiliates

by Paul Myers
21 replies
Another warning, folks. Take this for whatever you think it's worth...

We've had a growing rash of problems recently with affiliates signing up through the various platforms and screwing with sellers. They order products, get their commissions, and do chargebacks.

In some cases, they hit the same seller with multiple fraudulent accounts, and multiple orders through each. Then... WHACK!

They've been mostly Chinese Paypal addresses and IPs, with English-sounding names so far. Just saw my first from Brazil, and you can expect it to continue to spread.

I want to make something very clear here:

What goes on between you and your affiliates is between you, the affiliates, and whatever platform you choose to use.

Do not go around approving every person who applies for your program and then expect the moderators here to do anything for you. We can't, and we've warned you repeatedly about this. As have all the affiliate platforms.

You're going to lose money doing this, and possibly put your Paypal account or other payment processing system(s) at risk.

As a side note: You take a whole other risk when doing this. Some of these random idiots spam your offers, and I get some of that spam. If you don't think that should concern you, I suggest you re-read the rules for the forum. If it continues, I have no compunctions about shutting down offers that are spammed with links that point back to this site.

Choose wisely, people. Choose wisely.


Paul
#affiliates #approving #warning
  • Profile picture of the author VanessaB
    They also, often, use 'stolen' credit cards, to place orders and get their 'instant' commissions before the cc owner has a chance to report it stolen, which then results in chargebacks.

    Also, even being 'careful' of who you approve and those 'delayed commissions' don't protect you very well. I had an experience with one platform where the 'affliate' who was making the fraudulent charges, was nowhere to be found in my list of approved affiliates.

    The same thing happened to another warrior, on a different platform.
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    • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
      Danielle,
      I had an experience with one platform where the 'affliate' who was making the fraudulent charges, was nowhere to be found in my list of approved affiliates.
      Contact the network in question and ask them about it. They may be able to spot things you can't, or to close holes in the system.


      Paul
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  • Profile picture of the author Mr. Ken Russell
    Can you tell us which platform you were using? Aren't there security measures enabled to prevent this from happening? Make sure to report them and have their affiliate accounts disabled.
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    • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
      Banned
      Originally Posted by Nio93 View Post

      Can you tell us which platform you were using? Aren't there security measures enabled to prevent this from happening? Make sure to report them and have their affiliate accounts disabled.
      I think it can happen on any of the platforms, particularly if you approve for instant payments. This happened to me and luckily I still have a Paypal account.

      Whether instant or not, I don't approve anyone that I can't check out. Warrior Plus links the affiliate to their Warrior Forum account, so it is easier to actually see who has applied, read some of their posts, see how long they've been a member and get a feel for who they are. Not foolproof but better than approving them blind, knowing nothing about them at all.

      Trust me, it's not worth it.
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      • Profile picture of the author RogueOne
        After my small incident I sent JVZ a heads-up email.

        Rich Jenkins replied...

        "Hi Brent,

        Apologies for the late response. Yes unfortunately there's nothing that can be done about the commissions that were paid out. At least you realize that you should not have approved them. Please either deny or put on delayed commissions anyone you don't know or haven't done business with before. Even if they have 50 sales. If you see someone at 150 or above, it's pretty safe to say they're ok, but other than that, make sure you don't approve for instant.

        Thanks
        Rich"
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  • Profile picture of the author kindsvater
    As a seller you want to make some money and don't want to "miss out" on an affiliate bringing some sales.

    If someone is new to the forum, has a meager number of posts, if any, with no contact information or website to review, and is wanting to promote your product - what do you think is going to happen? A hundred sales? Possible in theory, but very unlikely.

    At times it would be nice if a poster's IP was listed. Not perfect, but something else to check out for location and to see if a proxy is being used.

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    • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
      Brian,
      At times it would be nice if a poster's IP was listed.
      Might be something to bring up with the affiliate platforms. Even better would be to list the affiliate's registered Paypal address.

      Those things can be changed easily enough, but they're still more to work with than just a username on this forum.

      Edit: Hmmm... What would be REALLY interesting would be for the affiliate platforms to track the number of IPs used to connect and, unless they were on dial-up systems, block any affiliate who used more than X IPs over a given period. Figuring out the value for X would be an easy enough thing for most cases, and it could be raised with various levels of sales without significant issues out of the normal range.



      Paul
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      • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
        Banned
        Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

        What would be REALLY interesting would be for the affiliate platforms to track the number of IPs used to connect and, unless they were on dial-up systems, block any affiliate who used more than X IPs over a given period. Figuring out the value for X would be an easy enough thing for most cases, and it could be raised with various levels of sales without significant issues out of the normal range.

        Paul
        I connect via tether with my Droid and a different IP every time I log in I think.
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  • Profile picture of the author bob ross
    does the length of time on WF hold any weight even if they have minimal posts? I've had affiliate requests from people with no posts but registered on WF since 2009 or so.
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    • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
      does the length of time on WF hold any weight even if they have minimal posts? I've had affiliate requests from people with no posts but registered on WF since 2009 or so.
      Hard to tell, Bob. We've been seeing a serious uptick in old accounts being sold and used for various not-so-cool purposes, so I'd look at more than the age of the account.


      Paul
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  • Profile picture of the author Kurt
    I had a problem with affiliate fraud like this a while back...The best thing you can do is to not allow for instant payments. This seems to have "fixed" the problem.

    What I do now is have a note that affiliate payments are delayed until someone makes 10-20 sales, then I'll switch to instant payment.
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  • Profile picture of the author Frank Schwarz
    Great heads up. Thanks.
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  • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
    Got a report of another one who just signed up for W+ today and is already setting up to scam more sellers.

    Please, people... Watch who you approve as an affiliate.


    Paul
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    • Profile picture of the author Jesse L
      Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

      Got a report of another one who just signed up for W+ today and is already setting up to scam more sellers.

      Please, people... Watch who you approve as an affiliate.


      Paul
      It's "Rednecks" like this that make this site so great!
      Thank you for caring!

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  • Profile picture of the author maxaurelius
    Thanks for the heads up.
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  • Profile picture of the author Michael Oksa
    This may sound a bit silly, but ask yourself if you would give the person your credit card to buy a loaf of bread. If you trust them enough to do that, then approve them.

    I have friends online that I trust that much (or more), and those are the only ones I approve as affiliates.

    All the best,
    Michael
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    • Profile picture of the author VanessaB
      Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

      Danielle,Contact the network in question and ask them about it. They may be able to spot things you can't, or to close holes in the system.


      Paul
      Sorry for late reply... went out of town for a microvacation... I did contact the platform it happened to me with, and I was ignored. Completely. I also contacted PayPal who also refused to acknowledge that there's either security breach on their end, or on the platform that they're allowing to access their API. I'm letting the attorney handle it at this point. As not only did I 'delay' payment, I never approved this particular affiliate anyway.

      I have no idea if the other guy that it happened to (on a different platform) contacted the platform or not, but I do see something that tells me that if he did he got the same type of response I got from the one I was using.

      I also think that because it happened with two different platforms, the security problem is on PayPal's end... but I am definitely not nearly tech savvy enough to know if that means a hill of beans.

      Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

      I had a problem with affiliate fraud like this a while back...The best thing you can do is to not allow for instant payments. This seems to have "fixed" the problem.

      What I do now is have a note that affiliate payments are delayed until someone makes 10-20 sales, then I'll switch to instant payment.
      Instant commissions are going to attract a greater number of fraudulent charges. No matter what. I don't care what anyone 'thinks' they know on this subject, the fact is, if you offer an 'instant commission,' you are the first place the fraudulent affiliates are going to go to. They know that using a stolen CC with ClickBank isn't worthwhile. The CC will be reported stolen and the chargebacks will come in before ClickBank pays out on the commission. But if you're offering an 'instant' commission, it's way too easy for some idiot to use a stolen CC to make fraudulent charges and by the time the chargebacks come up (takes as long as 3 weeks, btw), they've got their commission and they are long gone.

      The entire account was set up using a fake cc too... so PayPal isn't going to just 'get the money back' 'whenever they 'top up' as someone actually suggested once.

      And remember, using the 'delayed' payment feature, is still no guarantee.

      I was using delayed and so was the other guy, on the other platform. I'm 'guessing' that because these 'platforms' are known to be 'instant commission platforms,' and the fact that so many of the fraudulent charges are coming from foreign countries, that the scammers either a.) can't read the English well enough to realize they won't be getting 'instant', or b.) are hoping to get paid and slip through the cracks before the chargebacks go through.
      Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

      I connect via tether with my Droid and a different IP every time I log in I think.
      That is correct.

      Originally Posted by RogueOne View Post

      After my small incident I sent JVZ a heads-up email.

      Rich Jenkins replied...

      "Hi Brent,

      Apologies for the late response. Yes unfortunately there's nothing that can be done about the commissions that were paid out. At least you realize that you should not have approved them. Please either deny or put on delayed commissions anyone you don't know or haven't done business with before. Even if they have 50 sales. If you see someone at 150 or above, it's pretty safe to say they're ok, but other than that, make sure you don't approve for instant.

      Thanks
      Rich"
      Again, 'delayed' isn't nearly as much protection as one would think it is. See point above...

      Originally Posted by Michael Oksa View Post

      This may sound a bit silly, but ask yourself if you would give the person your credit card to buy a loaf of bread. If you trust them enough to do that, then approve them.

      I have friends online that I trust that much (or more), and those are the only ones I approve as affiliates.

      All the best,
      Michael
      It's funny you should say that... because that is very close to the truth. Credit card processing is a 'lending' product. The company that is doing the 'processing' of a credit card for you, and paying you the 'cash' value of the charge is in fact, making you a LOAN against the charge, on the good faith that the charge is a VALID one.

      That's why real merchant accounts ask for personal and business credit histories before opening up a merchant account for someone.

      I know 'instant commissions' sound like a great idea in theory, but the fact is, if you offer that, you are going to attract more fraud, and that once you paid it out, you've paid someone from money you got as a LOAN... and you are responsible for that 'loan.'
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      • Profile picture of the author Kurt
        Originally Posted by DanielleS View Post

        suggested once.

        And remember, using the 'delayed' payment feature, is still no guarantee.

        I was using delayed and so was the other guy, on the other platform. I'm 'guessing' that because these 'platforms' are known to be 'instant commission platforms,' and the fact that so many of the fraudulent charges are coming from foreign countries, that the scammers either a.) can't read the English well enough to realize they won't be getting 'instant', or b.) are hoping to get paid and slip through the cracks before the chargebacks go through.
        While using delayed payment doesn't guarantee to stop fraud, it does mean that you are much more likely have the funds to refund the purchase without the money coming out of your own pocket. Paypal is usually very quick to detect fraudulent charges.

        The only way to totally eliminate affiliate fraud is not to have any affiliates.
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        • Profile picture of the author VanessaB
          Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

          While using delayed payment doesn't guarantee to stop fraud, it does mean that you are much more likely have the funds to refund the purchase without the money coming out of your own pocket. Paypal is usually very quick to detect fraudulent charges.

          The only way to totally eliminate affiliate fraud is not to have any affiliates.
          Kurt, note of caution on this... PayPal charges you $20.00 for the chargeback. So even with the funds to cover the chargebacks, you're still going into the hole on those fees.

          Just a caution.

          And of course you'll always have 'some' risk, but it's a whole lot less if you're paying out on Net 30 when you're sure that at least three weeks have gone by for the 'buyer' to file the chargeback on a stolen cc.
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  • Profile picture of the author kencalhn
    things like this confirm my caution about why I have never had a general affiliate program in my business; for concerns about a) fraudulent "affiliate" orders that you pay out commisshes to, that are then charged back, costing a lot of $ out of pocket and b) affiliates sending non compliant spam/bad emails out. Either one is a really big hazard. I'm just approving for affiliates in my business, people I know or are well known, who run established websites and located in the US/UK/Canada fwiw, as I beta-test it.
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  • Profile picture of the author Paleochora
    The older system of 'rotating' links seems more secure (Payspree, the older W+ system) . Why is the adaptive system more favoured by Paypal and the affiliate platforms?
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