Do "guru's" exaggerate on their numbers...???

[ktlasm]

Hey Good People,

I love asking questions and reading all the viewpoints on various topics here(hence, why i love the WF). Anyway, as all of us or majority of us know. Many of the well known internet marketers do a good job at that...becoming well known. But, I have to be honest with all of you and say that at times I feel some of the figures displayed on their launches is a bit...Well...brow raising at times. I'd just like to know if you feel all numbers they spit out are accurate(i.e. believable) as to how they promote it. Ciao!

[GavinLively]

Originally Posted by ktlasm

Hey Good People,

I love asking questions and reading all the viewpoints on various topics here(hence, why i love the WF). Anyway, as all of us or majority of us know. Many of the well known internet marketers do a good job at that...becoming well known. But, I have to be honest with all of you and say that at times I feel some of the figures displayed on their launches is a bit...Well...brow raising at times. I'd just like to know if you feel all numbers they spit out are accurate(i.e. believable) as to how they promote it. Ciao!

It depends on which "guru" it is...Some wanna-be's exagerate all day long because they are not who they really say they are...

I would say most "guru's" that flash the huge numbers are not telling every little tiny detail of exactly how they achieved those numbers...I suspect the ones that full on fudge the numbers are very far and few between...But that is just my humble opinion.

Gavin

[mix_daylee]

Some gurus do have a tendency to exagerate. For example, one guru mentioned that their business makes over 7 figures a year, yet they couldn't pay their taxes. How do I know, I googled the corporation's name and I got more informationed that I bargained for. Definitely a big eye opener.

[BizBoost]

Originally Posted by ktlasm

Do "guru's" exaggerate on their numbers...???

YES, and, therefore, you should, too. UNLESS, your goal is relationship building. Theirs is not... it's profit-building. Either way is fine, it's just important to know the distinction.

Best wishes,
Eric

[ktlasm]

Great post thus far...Interesting!

[Bruce NewMedia]

I think many gurus like to talk GROSS rather than NET.

I don't mean actual after-all-expenses net, but at least take out the 50% or better you've paid in affiliate fees. ...another big cost not even mentioned is often Advertising cost.

So, when a guru says, "I did 1.3 million in 6 hours" or whatever, it would be more accurate to say, " I did $650,000 in 6 hours after affiliate fees and ad costs".

But since that doesn't sound as impressive, its not likely to be adopted. :-)
_____
Bruce

[jayden.fellze]

Its always the exaggerated posts that can persuade individuals especially the newbies. But in my opinion, i don't actually believe that it is true. In most cases, it might be impressive but that does not mean that the figures are existing. It might not be impossible but it is highly improbable.

[Chris Egan]

I think its obvious if you keep watching the blurb the "gurus" send that they show you the same accounts over and over.

[SeanSupplee]

I agree with Bruce on this one I know a few marketers myself that make 7 figures and have to say they do all talk in gross for at the end of the year when taxes come due its hard to know those numbers ahead of time. Selling a product for $97 really boils down to about $50 with taxes taken out again always sounds depressing lol

[Jonathan 2.0]

I don't think the most respected gurus would be stupid enough to exaggerate their numbers because if they were found out that would put a massive black mark next to their name. And they've spent years building their reputation.

People like John Reese (when he was more involved), Paul Myers, Jeff Walker and the like are people I trust.

For me if a person lies about their numbers then they're not a Guru. They're a conman. Some people are unethical. That's just part of life. However I think the most people are honest and trustworthy. And the people who do lie and exaggerate will be found out eventually so it's not going to benefit them in the long run.

[The Copy Nazi]

Originally Posted by ktlasm

Hey Good People,

I love asking questions and reading all the viewpoints on various topics here(hence, why i love the WF). Anyway, as all of us or majority of us know. Many of the well known internet marketers do a good job at that...becoming well known. But, I have to be honest with all of you and say that at times I feel some of the figures displayed on their launches is a bit...Well...brow raising at times. I'd just like to know if you feel all numbers they spit out are accurate(i.e. believable) as to how they promote it. Ciao!

NEVER believe the screenshots of Clickbank/CJ/Paypal earnings. They make bogus figures using a simple line of javascript in the browser. Here, have a go yourself - You Too Can Be a Clickbank Millionaire

[jamesviago]

Originally Posted by brucerby

I think many gurus like to talk GROSS rather than NET.

I don't mean actual after-all-expenses net, but at least take out the 50% or better you've paid in affiliate fees. ...another big cost not even mentioned is often Advertising cost.

So, when a guru says, "I did 1.3 million in 6 hours" or whatever, it would be more accurate to say, " I did $650,000 in 6 hours after affiliate fees and ad costs".

But since that doesn't sound as impressive, its not likely to be adopted. :-)
_____
Bruce

spot on bruce. gross numbers don't pay the bills.

[Mark .W. James]

I really find it hard to beleive these gurus even cross $100,000 with a single product....
50k.. maybe... but only a complete bad ass product can hit six figures.....

[ArtfulWebSites]

I think the "guru's" stuff is all hype, and they make all their money by selling their schemes, systems, ebooks, DVDs, etc. to us pigeons.

[Brad Gosse]

I don't think of myself as a guru. However when I show my numbers they are legit and verifiable.

It's pretty easy to fudge a stats screenshot which is why i use video captures of my stats.

Sure some people use fake stats even fake testimonials. Part of the process is to make a judgement for yourself about the overall credibility of the guru and their offer.

[Jonathan 2.0]

Originally Posted by ArtfulWebSites

I think the "guru's" stuff is all hype, and they make all their money by selling their schemes, systems, ebooks, DVDs, etc. to us pigeons.

You're wrong about that. There are some people that do that. But there are many of them who are passionate about teaching. Eben Pagan is a good example.

[ArtfulWebSites]

Originally Posted by ZigZag

You're wrong about that. There are some people that do that. But there are many of them who are passionate about teaching. Eben Pagan is a good example.

Well, you point out one exception. I didn't say ALL gurus are like that, but I believe large majority of them are. Especially those with the hugely long marketing pages with fancy graphics, videos and dozens of testimonials with audio and video. It takes a LOT of time, money and people to produce those marketing site! So, they have to make big bucks selling their programs.

If their systems were SO PROFITABLE and SUSTAINABLE, why aren't they putting all there time and effort in using their own system to make more money. If they were so "passionate about teaching", why don't they give there systems awy for free or a nominal production cost?

[Jonathan 2.0]

Most gurus aren't like that at all. That's my opinion and I've been in this community a long time.

So you're saying that graphics, videos, testimonials, audio, and video means that somehow people are being unethical and lying about their numbers. Well if you say so. That's not an opinion that is held by me. Believe it or not many people simply love what they do.

[ArtfulWebSites]

No, I am not saying "...graphics, videos, testimonials, audio, and video means that somehow people are being unethical and lying about their numbers." I am saying that is evidence that those elaborate marketing sites cost a lot in manpower and money to put together. If the system they are selling is so good, why are they diverting so much time, energy and money in a sales pitch instead of USING their own system to make more money? It just is NOT logical. If they were so altruistic and eager to teach, they would be spreading the knowledge freely.

[Jonathan 2.0]

Why shouldn't they charge money for high-quality information that improves people's lives while doing something that they're passionate about?

[Andy1750]

Hi Kevin,

Take everything that you read in a sales letter or promotional email with a pinch of salt. If making money online was as easy as the gurus claim it to be we wouldn't be spending so much time in this forum - we'd be sitting in the sun in the Miami sunshine on the lawn of our luxury villa enjoying a bottle of Crystal.

To be fair a positive sway on things is what marketing is all about. However, some of the excessive over exageration is a little too near the mark in my opinion preying on vulnerable people that don't have the ability or experience to know any better.

Just think about some of the methods that the gurus teach - i.e. making up stories! This is marketing and it does go on. However, it's a fair assumption that if they adopt these tactics when marketing non-IM related products they are also using the same tactics on you.

Best way to get an unbiased review of a product is to check out the product reviews section of Warriorforum. Just beware comments from a people with a signature to a site promoting the product under discussion. Nevertheless there does seem to be an unspoken rule in this forum that you should never bash the gurus. Complete nonsense in my opinion and they should be judged purely on the quality of their help and advice and not just on their often highly overinflated reputation.

Thanks,

Andy

[Jonathan 2.0]

The rule is that you shouldn't bash the good gurus. (Well you can but you'll end up looking foolish.) Because they help people tremendously. They're the only ones worth listening to anyway.

[dean_holland]

Me personally I believe that the gurus who are classed as the gurus dont exagerate the truth...

What I will say in agreement with another comment above is that the figures told are the sales figures not profit figures.... A comment was made to me before that on my blog I was selling myself short because I posted on my blog that I made around $1700 in 1 affiliate promotion I did.... This person told me I should be stating I made $3400 in the affiliate promotion !

This is not telling any lies, its very true I did generate $3400 for that promotion... But the facts are that my cut was $1700, I think you will agree though that the first statement looks better for me.

Both are true, 1 looks more impressivebut none are lies !

I think a lot of newbies will try and show fake proof as they maybe feel they have to compete with the gurus but I dont feel any top marketers need to exagerate or lie

Dean

[ArtfulWebSites]

If you generated $3400 in gross sales and your "cut" was $1700, then YOU made $1700, to say otherwise would be a LIE. Also, implying that $1700 is you net profit, and neglecting to mention $150 of promotional costs (which would make your NET profit $1550), would also be very misleading.

[Brad Gosse]

Originally Posted by ArtfulWebSites

If you generated $3400 in gross sales and your "cut" was $1700, then YOU made $1700, to say otherwise would be a LIE. Also, implying that $1700 is you net profit, and neglecting to mention $150 of promotional costs (which would make your NET profit $1550), would also be very misleading.

I always show my gross numbers (not meaning the full price of a product but my full cut).

Who cares if I spend $50k to make $80k. I am still going to show my gross sales. Everyone has expenses.

[ktlasm]

Wow, some very very good points raised here...Veeeery!

[jasonl70]

Originally Posted by amudara

I really find it hard to beleive these gurus even cross $100,000 with a single product....
50k.. maybe... but only a complete bad ass product can hit six figures.....

that sort of belief will certianly hold you back. You dont think someone with a list of 100,000 can pull off 1,001 sales of a $100 product? And that's before you add in the lists of their jv's..

Originally Posted by ArtfulWebSites

I think the "guru's" stuff is all hype, and they make all their money by selling their schemes, systems, ebooks, DVDs, etc. to us pigeons.

yup - they make their money selling stuff.. you figured out the secret

Originally Posted by ArtfulWebSites

If their systems were SO PROFITABLE and SUSTAINABLE, why aren't they putting all there time and effort in using their own system to make more money.

What in the h*ll do you think they are doing? They are using their 'systems' to sell their products!
It amazes me that so many people think that a marketer, marketing thier own product about marketing, is somehow no longer really marketing.

The fact that so many people find it so hard to believe that others can achieve such levels of success means that they will never achieve that level themselves. If you don't beleive you make over 100k selling a product to your own list, then I doubt you would bother to take all the time and effort required to build that list, build the relationship with that list, and build relationships with other marketers, required to do just that.

[dean_holland]

Originally Posted by jasonl70

that sort of belief will certianly hold you back. You dont think someone with a list of 100,000 can pull off 1,001 sales of a $100 product? And that's before you add in the lists of their jv's..



yup - they make their money selling stuff.. you figured out the secret



What in the h*ll do you think they are doing? They are using their 'systems' to sell their products!
It amazes me that so many people think that a marketer, marketing thier own product about marketing, is somehow no longer really marketing.

The fact that so many people find it so hard to believe that others can achieve such levels of success means that they will never achieve that level themselves. If you don't beleive you make over 100k selling a product to your own list, then I doubt you would bother to take all the time and effort required to build that list, build the relationship with that list, and build relationships with other marketers, required to do just that.

Jason

Well put sir !!

Glad someone highlighted this !!

[Black Hat Cat]

Originally Posted by ArtfulWebSites

I am saying that is evidence that those elaborate marketing sites cost a lot in manpower and money to put together. If the system they are selling is so good, why are they diverting so much time, energy and money in a sales pitch instead of USING their own system to make more money?

Why not? They do it because they can make money doing it. Duh. But what makes you think it isn't possible to do both? Just because I make decent money selling information products doesn't mean I can't create an information product teaching people how to do what I do. There's no rule that says I can't do both.

It just is NOT logical. If they were so altruistic and eager to teach, they would be spreading the knowledge freely.

And now the truth comes out. Yet another poser looking for something for free. Logic is the last thing you should bring into this conversation. And where did you ever get the idea that these folks are in the charity business? If you ever get a business started, I assume you'll be giving your stuff away for free, right? You know, in the name of altruism. You will if you're truly eager to make sure your customers get what they need. If you're truly eager to teach people how to set up a computer network, you won't charge them a dime for it. If you want to make sure the scared single mom gets a stun gun for her self defense, you won't charge her for it.

Yeah,good luck with that.

[Robert Puddy]

Originally Posted by ArtfulWebSites

Well, you point out one exception. I didn't say ALL gurus are like that, but I believe large majority of them are. Especially those with the hugely long marketing pages with fancy graphics, videos and dozens of testimonials with audio and video. It takes a LOT of time, money and people to produce those marketing site! So, they have to make big bucks selling their programs.

If their systems were SO PROFITABLE and SUSTAINABLE, why aren't they putting all there time and effort in using their own system to make more money. If they were so "passionate about teaching", why don't they give there systems awy for free or a nominal production cost?

Hmmm usual nonsense talk...

They make thier money doing it and selling it thats why they are in the IM niche, the IM niche is about selling how to make money online products.

And give me one good reason why they should teach for free... I can see how that benefits you, cant for the life of me see how that benefits them?

Robert

PS: Ok this is probably going to get me some hate mail, but someone here will see this and a light bulb will go off and i will have done my altruistic good deed for the day...

FREE stuff should just be enough to leave your subscribers, members and customers wanting to buy the rest of the course. Give good quality stuff away for sure, but you have to leave something out to sell.

If everything was for free nobody makes any money ad even this forum wouldnt be needed "here is where we talk about making money"

[JayXtreme]

We will never know the answer to your question.. and the more we discuss it, the more peoples minds are going to be warped by the twisted opinions of others..

Believe it or not.. it's up to you how much income claims bear on your decision making about a person.

Peace

Jay

[alpalino]

On the Internet, you can pretend to be anyone and pretend to earn lots of money. But I am sure, there are alot of geniune gurus here they earn good money.

[dave147]

I think some so-called Gurus do exaggerate their earnings especially when it's so simple to do it, after all, they are out to impress. I guess it's "anything for a sale" eh? With some anyway.

[eMarketing_Tips]

Generaly internet numbers these days are resonnably easy to track and verify yourself. Weather its a website with Quantcast.com or compete.com or other numbers there are tools out there to help you monitor if what people say are real.

[Harvey Segal]

I've warned my affiliates not to exaggerate. I've told them a hundred thousand times.

Harvey

[Andyhenry]

Originally Posted by ArtfulWebSites

If their systems were SO PROFITABLE and SUSTAINABLE, why aren't they putting all there time and effort in using their own system to make more money. If they were so "passionate about teaching", why don't they give there systems awy for free or a nominal production cost?

Since I'm sure others probably think this at some point too, I wanted to answer it.

There are several reasons for this:

1 - Some people DO give it away for free. Just look around. I've given my last 4 product away for free.

2 - Free is not always best for anyone.

I asked about this recently and some very interesting comments came back.

To some up the most compelling....... People generally don't respect things they get for free and are less likely to actually take action based on free stuff compared to what they pay for.

YOU may not believe that if you want free stuff - but it's true, and it's the reason why I won't always give things away for free.

3 - Just because someone is earning good money doesn't mean they owe YOU anything - and being successful does not mean you shouldn't charge fair price for your work.

4 - There's always more you can do when you have more money.

If you want to help others then money is a great tool, so why wouldn't you want to keep making it even after the necessity for it in your own life is gone?

I can't imagine a time when I wouldn't be able to help more people simply by having more money to do it with.

Andy

[ArtfulWebSites]

Listen, I know there are decent "gurus" out there that sell information on IM techniques, and I do not begrudge them in the least making money from selling their legitimate information for honest and moral techniques. And, yes there are some "good guys" that even give some information for free and/or help us out on forums by answering questions.

I'm talking about those over-hyped marketers that claim you can easily make $1,000 per day with only 1-2 hours of "work" - BULL!! At least not honestly, legally, and morally.

[ShaunAllen]

I think part of the problem is believing that
the amount you see on the clickbank screen-
shots is going directly into the bank.

We sometimes forget about the taxes we have
to pay. This doesn't necessarily mean the
guru's aren't being honest either.

I think a problem is that if you make $2,000
per day but it takes you $1,000 to make that
you need to disclose that. I think some Adwords
products are actually doing this now.

[ktlasm]

To put it simply...I only care about the net, period. It changes the whole mind frame of whether or not the numbers are believable. It's like when you have a job and you get your paycheck and see the gross. Sure, it looks nice, but darn if it helps when it's time to spend it. Feel me??? Hope ya do.

[ArtfulWebSites]

Dave and Ktlasm,

I could not agree with you more!

I was originally talking about DIRECT SALES COSTS, not the business expenses we are all faced with, like: office supplies, utilities, telephone, yes, and even TAXES.

If I told you I would sell you a system for $97 (assuming it had this REALLY LONG marketing page with all kinds of testimonials, screen shots of AdSense payments, videos, and audios). that would bring in $100 a day in AdSense earnings, would you buy it?

After buying this wonderful system, what would you say if you then found out I "neglected" to disclose that it cost $150 a day in AdWords expense to generate that level of GROSS income? That's a DIRECT $50/day NET LOSS!

There is no way any reasonable person can defend such deception by omission.

[ptwain]

What I realized over the years buying products from various so called gurus is that real gurus provide you with a step by step plan to succeed. They don't provide screenshots of clickbank sales, or adsense earnings. As for the conmen out there, they are always quick to prove their product with earning screenshots and fake testomonials. But in the end their products are full of fluff and filler material.

[Michael Silvester]

No Way...Guru's Dont Inflate The Numbers...

I REALLY did make a kazillion dollars per second
from using twitter

Take Care,

Michael Silvester

[ArtfulWebSites]

Another thing that some of them neglect to tell you when presenting their HUGE AdSense, ClickBank, and other affiliate earnings, is that it took 5 YEARS (or more) to build up to that level of earnings!

[jasonl70]

Originally Posted by ptwain

As for the conmen out there, they are always quick to prove their product with earning screenshots and fake testomonials.

This is nothing but an assumption.
Providing a "proponderance of evidence" is prudent marketing. if your reputation doesn't precede you, then you darn well better pull out all the stops to convince others you are the real deal. Personaly, I think the only people who don't provide proof and testimonials are those people who have nothing to show (with a few exceptions of course).

Originally Posted by ArtfulWebSites

Another thing that some of them neglect to tell you when presenting their HUGE AdSense, ClickBank, and other affiliate earnings, is that it took 5 YEARS (or more) to build up to that level of earnings!

Although you have a good point, that doesn't really invalidate their teachings. In 1 year I went from $zero to $7k a month with IM - doing this only part time on the side. Now I'm promoting some continuity programs, and my income is just taking off. I may not be making millions like the big dogs, but I can emulate them on a smaller scale and do very well.

[ArtfulWebSites]

Jason,

Kudos to you for accomplishing that level of income in just one year. I'm not about making the millions like the big dogs either. I just want to provide some supplemental income in my retirement.

What do you mean by: "promoting some continuity programs"?

[Mike Adams]

Yall wont believe this: Mario Xiao Fake Clickbank’s Proof of Earnings

[Melford Bibens]

Everyone exaggerates...

[ktlasm]

Well, I will admit...I've bought into a small number of the kind of thing we're talking about here...But, I was much younger and naive...I'm sure that it's not something any of you did now is it...LOL

[jamesviago]

Originally Posted by Melford Bibens

Everyone exaggerates...

rotflmao




i think you're exaggerating a million times more than anyone.

[VinceLaw]

Don't believe their hype!