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"NO 60 day refund" payment processing companies?

by Deviator
28 replies
short question: Does anyone know some "ClickBank" like payment processing companies, but with favor to the vendor not buyer? Since 60 days refund is harsh for "forex software niche". And what about Payment Cycle?

long question:
Hi,
I'm planning to lunch software sales (forex niche) and was wondering which payment processing to use.
The main problem is refund policy, it actually derives from the fact that companies like ClickBank are using 60 days payment Cycle.
Right now I found that RegNow is the one that suits me, since refund policy favor to the vendors - they can decide rather to refund client or not.
I'm also thinking about Avangate and FastSpring. But I never was using one of thous. So, could you please share your experience, maybe you know something about such good to vendor payment processors?
#companies #no 60 day refund #payment #processing
  • Profile picture of the author mgreener
    Hi,

    Have you thought of doing it yourself through Authorize.net or Paypal?
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    • Profile picture of the author Deviator
      Paypal is the very same 60 day refund policy.
      But about Authorize.net I hear first time. I'm reading about it now and see such line about refunds - "The original transaction settled within the last 120 days". If I understand correctly then it is a refund in even larger period and I can't find "payment cycle" but I presume it would be the same 60 or even 120 days.
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      • Profile picture of the author FirstSocialApps
        Originally Posted by Deviator View Post

        Paypal is the very same 60 day refund policy.
        This is wrong if your selling digital products.
        If your selling digital products PayPals refund policy is simple "No Refunds"
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        • Profile picture of the author Deviator
          Originally Posted by FirstSocialApps View Post

          This is wrong if your selling digital products.
          If your selling digital products PayPals refund policy is simple "No Refunds"
          wow, that is awesome! Then I need to think about merchant PayPal account.
          Well I found some ambiguous manifests from PayPal:

          "We respect sellers' return policies, and buyer remorse is not an acceptable justification for an item not as described claim. If PayPal determines based on information from the buyer and information in the item listing that the item is not as described (and if the seller responds to the buyer claim), then the buyer must return it to the seller to qualify for a refund."

          But are you sure that PayPal will stand for sellers interests, like when dispute is raised with abstract words like "I do not like program since it doesn't bring me expected performance"?
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          • Profile picture of the author Anonymous Affiliate
            Originally Posted by Deviator View Post

            But are you sure that PayPal will stand for sellers interests, like when dispute is raised with abstract words like "I do not like program since it doesn't bring me expected performance"?
            The problem is not whether will stand on the side of the seller. If the user paid via Credit Card (even if it's within PayPal's checkout process), he can still file a chargeback straight from his bank. A few chargebacks too many and your PayPal account will be frozen by PayPal themselves.
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          • Profile picture of the author FirstSocialApps
            Originally Posted by Deviator View Post

            But are you sure that PayPal will stand for sellers interests, like when dispute is raised with abstract words like "I do not like program since it doesn't bring me expected performance"?
            PayPals buyer protection only covers 'physical goods that can be shipped', Ill try to find you a link to there TOS, be assured that there buyer protection / forced refund does not cover digital products.

            That being said you probably should give a refund if the customer wants one. I have been selling software for a long time and have always given a refund period and have never refused a person who asked for one in that period (I normally give 7 days) If the customer decides the product is not for them they should get there money back. Its just good business.
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  • Profile picture of the author joseph7384
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    • Profile picture of the author Deviator
      Originally Posted by joseph7384 View Post

      What's wrong with a 60 day refund policy.
      Well I saw a better one - a no refund payment done by "RegNow".
      And of course it is classical software sellers issues: DRM, buyers just use product and return money.
      But surely this is a philosophic/flame/holly war question And I don't want to start one.
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  • Profile picture of the author contentwriting360
    Banned
    I am not sure why you somewhat fear this 60-day refund policy as far as your forex software niche is concerned. Is your software that bad that a high percentage of people may ask for a refund within 60 days upon purchase? I'm trying to understand the situation here.
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    • Profile picture of the author Deviator
      Originally Posted by contentwriting360 View Post

      I am not sure why you somewhat fear this 60-day refund policy as far as your forex software niche is concerned. Is your software that bad that a high percentage of people may ask for a refund within 60 days upon purchase? I'm trying to understand the situation here.
      It's not bad it's a forex... in this niche refunds are around 30%-50% (insert your number here). And everyone is using RegNow, or ClickBank.
      Regnow for solo sales, and clickbank to promote product and bring more traffic.
      The situation is very simple, we need more alternatives to regnow.
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  • Profile picture of the author contentwriting360
    Banned
    in this niche refunds are around 30%-50%
    I got you now. In such case, you really need to find some better (not just good) alternatives. Serial refunders are everywhere.
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    • Profile picture of the author Mindstorms
      I use Clickbank. Not a top priority to me yet, but I'll check Plimus out:
      Sell Online, Ecommerce Software, Affiliate Network | Plimus

      Their refund policies are as follow:

      Refunds may be granted up to 30 days from purchase
      All Plimus vendors (product and service providers) are required to provide full, unconditional refunds to Customers up to 30 days from the day of purchase.
      Customers may be asked to provide a valid reason for claiming a refund.
      Plimus provides a transparent online resolution procedure for settling disputes and may direct refund requests through that channel so that product and service providers may make alternative suggestions for resolving such requests.

      Between 31 - 60 days after date of purchase
      After the first 30 days have elapsed, a refund request will normally not be accepted unless there are convincing reasons justifying a refund.
      During this period, Plimus will usually require a Customer to provide a satisfactory explanation as to why a refund is merited and why the request was not made earlier. Plimus will refer the request to the product or service provider before determining whether or not a refund should be granted.
      A product or service provider may decide to give a refund during this period.
      Plimus may still consider the validity of refund claims up to a period of 60 days from the date of purchase and may issue a refund at its absolute discretion.

      After 60 days purchase is deemed to be final
      After a period of more than 60 days since the date of purchase, the transaction will be regarded as final. Plimus will normally decline to grant a refund, except in special circumstances. It will however pass any dispute or request information on to the relevant product or service provider who may still decide to grant a refund or partial refund.
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      • Profile picture of the author kindsvater
        Forget Plimus, especially with the OP's type of product. PayGear lets you set your own refund policy and works with PayPal, Google checkout (not used myself), or authorize.net.

        Or, as someone already suggested, just use PayPal yourself.
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        • Profile picture of the author Deviator
          Plimus - banned all forex products.
          Paypal - the very same 60 days refund.
          Authorize - 120 day refund(?)

          Originally Posted by kindsvater View Post

          Forget Plimus, especially with the OP's type of product. PayGear lets you set your own refund policy and works with PayPal, Google checkout (not used myself), or authorize.net.

          Or, as someone already suggested, just use PayPal yourself.
          PayGear sounds interesting(vendor refund policy is cool), but I could not find the Payment Cycle. Do they have the same policy as all small companies like "you have to wait 60 days and after that we will consider your payment"?
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  • Profile picture of the author brentb
    Just don't allow refunds. Write it in your Terms of Use that they must agree to. I don't know what to tell you. You can get refunds/chargebacks on any transaction from any processor at any time. Period. Example, if I pay you with my debit card, I can dispute that with my bank even years later. Definitely would have to jump through hoops and stuff but its possible. Worry about delivering a good product, good customer support and high converting pages.
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    • Profile picture of the author Michael Oksa
      Originally Posted by brentb View Post

      Just don't allow refunds. Write it in your Terms of Use that they must agree to. I don't know what to tell you. You can get refunds/chargebacks on any transaction from any processor at any time. Period. Example, if I pay you with my debit card, I can dispute that with my bank even years later. Definitely would have to jump through hoops and stuff but its possible. Worry about delivering a good product, good customer support and high converting pages.
      Brent is right. Forex may be a high-refund niche, but the best way to minimize those refunds is to provide a better product.

      IF your product isn't top-notch (not saying it is) and you are trying to find ways to REFUSE refunds, then word will spread and initial sales will go down.

      All the best,
      Michael
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      • Profile picture of the author Searcher
        Originally Posted by Michael Oksa View Post

        IF your product isn't top-notch (not saying it is) and you are trying to find ways to REFUSE refunds, then word will spread and initial sales will go down.
        * If product isn't top-notch - no matter there is a refund or not : words with some speed will spread and initial and following sales will go down.

        * In an addition :

        - It is obvious rule : if a product is consumed by a customer - then no any refund.

        For example : I bought milk and consumed it - and after 22 days ask a shop for a refund.

        - A digital product is a food for a mind.

        When an ebook was read , it has been consumed by a brain : there is not any method to remove that ebook from a brain.

        So , for digital products no even 1 day for a refund.

        For example : I write in a book how to reach an old gold mine full with gold.
        The information will be consumed by brains and masses will catch that gold.
        I instead money will get refunds.

        - There are a lot of other arguments to remove a refund for digital products completely.
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  • Profile picture of the author Searcher
    * There is SWREG , specializing in soft selling with 30 d refund policy.

    * But a refund request is hidden on its pages.
    I just now in a refund request process for very bad soft - and with big problems detected needed way to request a refund.

    * I have some idea how to eliminate a refund - I am also in a search how to eliminate a refund.
    If interested - pm , I will respond within 12 h due a time shift.
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  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
    Authorize.net is *****NOT***** a payment processor! They have NOTHING to do with that. ALL they are is a GATEWAY! They connect your site to the processor for the merchant account.

    BTW the PROCESSOR sets the minimum requirements for things like refunds. NOT gateways like authorize.net.

    Steve
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    • Profile picture of the author Deviator
      Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

      Authorize.net is *****NOT***** a payment processor! They have NOTHING to do with that. ALL they are is a GATEWAY! They connect your site to the processor for the merchant account.

      BTW the PROCESSOR sets the minimum requirements for things like refunds. NOT gateways like authorize.net.

      Steve
      Hmm, very interesting... And that's why they charge so little (not even close to 8% from a sale) and do not provide wire transfer, only PayPal and other useless staff.
      Am I correct or am I missing something?
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      • Profile picture of the author seasoned
        Originally Posted by Deviator View Post

        Hmm, very interesting... And that's why they charge so little (not even close to 8% from a sale) and do not provide wire transfer, only PayPal and other useless staff.
        Am I correct or am I missing something?
        What We Do - Authorize.Net

        Connecting a Web site to the payment processing networks is exceptionally difficult and typically beyond the expertise and technical resources of most online merchants. Instead, merchants can easily connect to the Authorize.Net Payment Gateway, which provides the complex infrastructure and security necessary to ensure fast, reliable and secure transmission of transaction data. Authorize.Net manages the routing of transactions just like a traditional credit card swipe machine you find in the physical retail world, however, Authorize.Net uses the Internet instead of a phone line.
        That is from THEIR site just moments ago. Translation? They do *******NOTHING******* but provide communication between your customer, you, and the processor, "just like a traditional credit card swipe machine you find in the physical retail world".

        So they are WORTHLESS without a merchant account, and THAT is where you have to start worrying about chargebacks and refund policies.

        And YEAH, the costs ARE low! Typically it may be around $30/month and maybe $0.50 per transaction, whether $1 or a billion. Again, the real costs hit with the merchant account.

        Steve
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        • Profile picture of the author Deviator
          Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

          What We Do - Authorize.Net



          That is from THEIR site just moments ago. Translation? They do *******NOTHING******* but provide communication between your customer, you, and the processor, "just like a traditional credit card swipe machine you find in the physical retail world".

          So they are WORTHLESS without a merchant account, and THAT is where you have to start worrying about chargebacks and refund policies.

          And YEAH, the costs ARE low! Typically it may be around $30/month and maybe $0.50 per transaction, whether $1 or a billion. Again, the real costs hit with the merchant account.

          Steve
          Thank you Steve!
          I never thought that there are global gradations like gateways and real payment processors. As I also recently discovered that there is a term of "liquid" money (credit card, paypal, etc) and hard(?) money (liberty reserve like payment processors)

          But well, right now I'm trying to open account with Avangate, it seems they have "vendor defined refunds", wire transfers and they accept forex products. At least one of my "colleagueы" are selling throe them.
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          • Profile picture of the author seasoned
            Originally Posted by Deviator View Post

            Thank you Steve!
            I never thought that there are global gradations like gateways and real payment processors. As I also recently discovered that there is a term of "liquid" money (credit card, paypal, etc) and hard(?) money (liberty reserve like payment processors)

            But well, right now I'm trying to open account with Avangate, it seems they have "vendor defined refunds", wire transfers and they accept forex products. At least one of my "colleagueы" are selling throe them.
            ????

            No global graduations. Banks want to b BANKS! Thy have a PROPRIETARY network to some PROCESSORS. The banks sell numbers and credit cards. ******WORTHLESS****** So they can provide delayed funds.(credit cards) SO WHAT! So they may allow YOU to get delayed funds.(merchant account) SO WHAT! WORTHLESS!!!! SURE, they can give you a book to wed out some, and you can exchang drafts for cash, but SO WHAT? How many use them? PRE 1970s technology.

            OK, that is ANCIENT! Well, some companies offer this little machine to do it ELECTRONICALLY! OK, WORTHLESS!!!! BUT, put it together with the bank's offerings, and you have something! It is still WORTHLESS for the internet! PRE 1980s technology.

            If the above together were good enough, Paypal would NEVER have made it.

            OK, THAT is ancient technology. Well, some companies came out with an IP gateway! Like the item I just described, but for the internet. AGAIN, almost worthless, but useful with the Bank's offerings. And THIS is where authorize.net is.

            There is the bank(Credit provider)
            Processor(credit network)
            Gateway or Terminal(The gadget stores usd to run your card through, or things lik authorize.net)

            AVANGATE!?!?!!?!?? I just took a cursory look! Under payment methods?

            VAGUE, VAGUE, VAGUE, MEANINGLESS, ETC....

            And THEN? And THEN? It says ****Gateway Support****! Ask yourself! WHAT could that mean? In this context, every time I have seen it, it meant supporting a PAYMENT GATEWAY!

            I researched GATEWAY processing software for MONTHS a few years back, I found an old hybrid, that was bought out and commercialized by Redhat. I found ANOTHER that cost over $1000! That was JUST the gateway! NO hardware, NO account, NO software to use it, etc....

            So I doubt THEY provide a gateway. If they did though, WHY would they have "gateway support"?

            And "liberty reserve" will likely be a hard sell to many, etc...

            Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author icoachu
    Buyers prefer Clickbank because they know they won't get ripped off as much. The truth is: if the product is WORTH BUYING, people won't refund. It's as simple as that.
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    • Profile picture of the author Cool Hand Luke
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      • Profile picture of the author icoachu
        Originally Posted by Cool Hand Luke View Post

        :rolleyes: That is absolutely untrue, especially with Clickbank. You have NO idea what you are talking about.
        Why don't you like policies that protect the consumer? Do you have something to hide?

        Sadly, I've bought many ebooks and most of them are filled with worthless fluff. I've also tried WP plugins and themes. I do know what I'm talking about. CB has that generous refund policy to PUSH people making products to step their game up. Just because CB doesn't let you rip people doesn't make their refund policy bad. Better they refund than get their merchant account yanked due to too many chargebacks.

        The lesson is CLEAR: If you can't offer True Value, don't offer stuff to the public. You just might get OWNED. You are in a better position to know if your stuff is just warmed over garbage or the real deal. Why let the consumer suffer?
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  • Profile picture of the author Randall Magwood
    You should see if 2checkout allows "forex" products, and do the same for Alertpay.
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  • Profile picture of the author lilphilupt
    I really think having a 60 day money back guarantee will get you more customers... Not having a money back guarantee will have people thinking twice before buying or they may pass on it basing on the price of the product.
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    • Profile picture of the author icoachu
      Originally Posted by lilphilupt View Post

      I really think having a 60 day money back guarantee will get you more customers... Not having a money back guarantee will have people thinking twice before buying or they may pass on it basing on the price of the product.
      Exactly. CB is the monster juggernaut of digital goods sales that it is due to its CONSUMER FIRST policies. If CB alternatives burn consumers enough, they will get a reputation as scammer havens and will be avoided worse than Chris Brown at a Rhianna appreciation party.
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  • Profile picture of the author Searcher
    The SOLUTION # 1 ( at digiresults ) :

    "What About Refunds?

    Refunds are part of doing business online.

    Vendors have total control over refunds.
    You choose your own policy.

    When a customer requests a refund, they’ll contact your support email.
    Once you grant a refund, our Direct Commission Technology automatically reverses the money from both your account and your affiliates account.
    You’ll never worry about affiliates promoting and then disappearing and leaving you with the bill when a customer requests a refund."
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