Clickbank ripping you off too??

[Steven Wagenheim]

Originally Posted by Jeremy Kelsall

Set up new accounts with new hoplinks....

I must have 30 accts on clickbank now. Whenever they start with the shaving ****, I just open a new acct, change out my hoplinks, and my conversions go back to normal.

After posting about this a few months ago, other people tried the same thing and had the same results.

Anyone that says that Clickbank isn't screwing their affiliates is in denial.

Jeremy, you know I have the utmost respect for you, but what is Clickbank's
incentive to shave commissions? As I illustrated in my post above, Clickbank
makes the same amount of money per sale whether the merchant gets
credit for the sale completely or splits it with the affiliate.

So what is their motive?

If you can give me any rational kind of one, I can at least try to wrap my
head around this. But right now, I just can't because it makes no sense
business wise.

[Steven Wagenheim]

Originally Posted by Johnathan

Lol,

Hi Steve,

Please give me a little credit at least

Here is what an affiliate processor could do.

Let's say you have a $100 product with a 30% commission, and 10% processor fee (using these numbers for simplicity).

Under normal circumstances, this is how an affiliate sale 'should' work.

$100 sale

$30 - Affiliate gets $30 - Affiliate sale
$10 - Processor gets $10
$60 - Vendor gets $60 - Because of an affiliate sale

Now... If an affiliate system was to 'keep' commissions .

$100 Sale
-- Nothing for affiliate
$10 Processor Fee
$60 Vendor -- Vendor THINKS it is an "affiliate" sale (it shows up as an 'affiliate' sale in the vendor panel, so the vendor is happy, because they made an affiliate sale)

--> other "$30" affiliate sale could get 'lost' or 'pocketed' into the processor, so

+$30 'bonus' processor fee

This is what it sounds like some people are describing.

So here is what you're saying.

John Doe goes to site (via affiliate link) and makes purchase.

At the bottom of the page, it says affiliate=none.

But...when the sale goes through and the merchant sees his report, it
shows an affiliate name so he thinks it's an affiliate sale when in fact
the affiliate didn't get credit.

Wow, that's one sophisticated theft system if I've ever seen one. I
wouldn't in a million years know how to program something like that.

But let's say you're right.

This is EASY to prove.

All the merchant has to do is contact the affiliate and see if he got
credit for the sale that is showing up in the merchant's account as an
affiliate sale.

And let's see how many of these "accusations" are actually true.

I'd be shocked if we found even one.

The only cases I have found over my 6 years is this.

John Doe buys from my hop link.
I don't get credit for sale.
I call Clickbank and they say either "somebody else did" or "nobody did".

In most cases, if nobody did and I get the customer to complain to
Clickbank (because I offer bonuses) they credit me with the sale.

If somebody else did, I simply tell the customer, "you must have gone
there through somebody else's link" to which almost all the time, the
customer says, "yeah, but I did go to yours too."

Well, he must have gone to that other guy's last, in which case the
system tracked properly.

As I said, I know their tracking system has flaws. I am not in any way
denying that. I am no big fan of Clickbank hop links. But to say that they
are deliberately stealing commissions from affiliates...well, let's just say
that I need to see more proof than what has already been presented.

That's all I'm saying.

[jestershaw]

Are you kidding me!!!

Sound like milan is just posting for the link.

Originally Posted by milan

Let me guess what might've happened:

Your "friend" who wasn't credited for the sale is actually you, or a person from the same house/office. Clickbank's system figured that out and didn't want the "affiliate" to get the credit for such a tactic.

So who's ripping off who?

[Jeremy Kelsall]

Steve,

Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim

Jeremy, you know I have the utmost respect for you, but what is Clickbank's
incentive to shave commissions? As I illustrated in my post above, Clickbank
makes the same amount of money per sale whether the merchant gets
credit for the sale completely or splits it with the affiliate.

So what is their motive?

If you can give me any rational kind of one, I can at least try to wrap my
head around this. But right now, I just can't because it makes no sense
business wise.

It doesn't have to make sense...

Here is what I can tell you. When it first started, I had one clickbank account that was getting over 1000 hops a day between 3 products. I believe all of them were converting at the lowest of 1:80 so, I was making 10 sales a day on this account on average. Then a 3 week stretch with not one sale.

So.....

I opened a new account and switched up my hoplinks on my landing pages directing them to my new acct.

Guess what happened?

Then the same "dry spell" hit one of my other accts. So, again I opened a new acct and had the same results.

At this point, clickbank sends me so many wiretransfers and paper checks that my bank probably thinks I am laundering money lol...

Other people have done the same thing with the same results. So, this isn't a "one off" type of deal.

They are stealing your money, my money, and everyone elses money. At this point, it is so evident that it doesn't even deserve or need any discussion.

I'm not bitching about it. I'll keep opening accounts and keep raising their administrative costs for as long as need be.

I would delete all of my accts with them and move on, but I'm not an idiot. Even with the shaving they do, they still give me a considerable amount of cash each and every month that I would deserve to be kicked in the nuts if I walked away from it.

Sure, their are other alternatives, such as Paydotcom, but have you seen any of the sales pages there? They look like 4 year olds threw them together.

So, for the time being clickbank is a necessary evil for me.

[hernan10]

How about this....

guy A goes to make a purchase....
guy A pays $97 to clickbank.
Clickbank redirects guy A to the thank you page...
Clickbank doesnt inform either the affiliate or the owner that a sale was made.
Clickbank is richer by $97

?

[JayXtreme]

I'm with Jeremy here..

I wouldn't say clickbank is keeping the commissh.. but I DO now 100% that the detail he described above works..

My partner and I constantly test this on 2 domains of ours.. the moment we see some shady stats, we jump into the link cloaker.. switch all the hops to a fresh or other account...

POOF... conversions stay normal....

There is NO question on my end that clickbank has "tracking issues"...

We work too hard and too smart to let it affect us on a grand scale, but if you aren't being pro-active about this, it can cripple your business. It would have crippled mine if we didn't take regular preventative action.

Peace

Jay

[Johnathan]

Hi Steven,

Yes, I am saying that is possible. And fairly easy to implement (programatically).

And yes, you are absolutely correct, that it is fairly easy to 'prove'. However, many 'larger' vendors don't have time to go through say 1,000 sales/month, so don't really care. However, unless I am misreading something, from what some people have posted (in this/other threads), it seems as if that is what they were describing.

If the vendor is instead getting the `full`credit, and the affiliate not getting any credit at all, then ok, I would say that simply the actual link tracking system is flawed (and obviously needs to be corrected).

Johnathan

Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim

So here is what you're saying.

John Doe goes to site (via affiliate link) and makes purchase.

At the bottom of the page, it says affiliate=none.

But...when the sale goes through and the merchant sees his report, it
shows an affiliate name so he thinks it's an affiliate sale when in fact
the affiliate didn't get credit.

Wow, that's one sophisticated theft system if I've ever seen one. I
wouldn't in a million years know how to program something like that.

But let's say you're right.

This is EASY to prove.

All the merchant has to do is contact the affiliate and see if he got
credit for the sale that is showing up in the merchant's account as an
affiliate sale.

And let's see how many of these "accusations" are actually true.

I'd be shocked if we found even one.

The only cases I have found over my 6 years is this.

John Doe buys from my hop link.
I don't get credit for sale.
I call Clickbank and they say either "somebody else did" or "nobody did".

In most cases, if nobody did and I get the customer to complain to
Clickbank (because I offer bonuses) they credit me with the sale.

If somebody else did, I simply tell the customer, "you must have gone
there through somebody else's link" to which almost all the time, the
customer says, "yeah, but I did go to yours too."

Well, he must have gone to that other guy's last, in which case the
system tracked properly.

As I said, I know their tracking system has flaws. I am not in any way
denying that. I am no big fan of Clickbank hop links. But to say that they
are deliberately stealing commissions from affiliates...well, let's just say
that I need to see more proof than what has already been presented.

That's all I'm saying.

[Steven Wagenheim]

Originally Posted by Jeremy Kelsall

Steve,



It doesn't have to make sense...

Here is what I can tell you. When it first started, I had one clickbank account that was getting over 1000 hops a day between 3 products. I believe all of them were converting at the lowest of 1:80 so, I was making 10 sales a day on this account on average. Then a 3 week stretch with not one sale.

So.....

I opened a new account and switched up my hoplinks on my landing pages directing them to my new acct.

Guess what happened?

Then the same "dry spell" hit one of my other accts. So, again I opened a new acct and had the same results.

At this point, clickbank sends me so many wiretransfers and paper checks that my bank probably thinks I am laundering money lol...

Other people have done the same thing with the same results. So, this isn't a "one off" type of deal.

They are stealing your money, my money, and everyone elses money. At this point, it is so evident that it doesn't even deserve or need any discussion.

I'm not bitching about it. I'll keep opening accounts and keep raising their administrative costs for as long as need be.

I would delete all of my accts with them and move on, but I'm not an idiot. Even with the shaving they do, they still give me a considerable amount of cash each and every month that I would deserve to be kicked in the nuts if I walked away from it.

Sure, their are other alternatives, such as Paydotcom, but have you seen any of the sales pages there? They look like 4 year olds threw them together.

So, for the time being clickbank is a necessary evil for me.

I don't even know how to respond to this. If this is true, then this is
one serious criminal activity and needs to be investigated by the proper
authorities. Maybe I'm just in denial. I can't imagine a company with their
reputation and the number of merchants and affiliates that they have to
risk everything doing something like this. Because if it can be proven (how
would you even prove this????) it would be devastating to the company.

Well, like I said, if we want whatever is going on to stop we need to take
action.

And yes, I have seen the PayDotCom sales pages and products...another
reason I promote very little from them.

Man if this is really true (I'm still not going to bet my life on it that it is)
then this is one very sad state of affairs.

[Johnathan]

Originally Posted by hernan10

How about this....

guy A goes to make a purchase....
guy A pays $97 to clickbank.
Clickbank redirects guy A to the thank you page...
Clickbank doesnt inform either the affiliate or the owner that a sale was made.
Clickbank is richer by $97

?

Hi,

That is true as well, however 'easier' to track and could get CB into hot water very quickly if discovered.

All that would have to happen is one vendor keep a close watch on the sales->download ratio, and if he started noticing license keys/etc being generated that didn't have corresponding sales, could question it very easily.

However, there are companies that do that

[Steven Wagenheim]

Originally Posted by JayXtreme

I'm with Jeremy here..

I wouldn't say clickbank is keeping the commissh.. but I DO now 100% that the detail he described above works..

My partner and I constantly test this on 2 domains of ours.. the moment we see some shady stats, we jump into the link cloaker.. switch all the hops to a fresh or other account...

POOF... conversions stay normal....

There is NO question on my end that clickbank has "tracking issues"...

We work too hard and too smart to let it affect us on a grand scale, but if you aren't being pro-active about this, it can cripple your business. It would have crippled mine if we didn't take regular preventative action.

Peace

Jay

Jay, you and Jeremy are two of my most trusted folks here. If you
say this is going on then I guess I just must be a damn fool to believe
otherwise.

I honestly don't even know what else to say.

My only hope is that it's not an intentional thing on Clickbank's part and
simply something to do with old accounts, though I can't imagine what
would cause this.

If however, it turns out that there is wrong doing and it can be proven,
you can be assured that I will do what I can to warn others.

But until I have proof of wrongdoing, (I don't want to get sued for
defamation) I'm just going to have to sit tight.

Oh, and Clickbank is aware of this thread.

I just hope that they take it seriously.

[hernan10]

Originally Posted by Johnathan

Hi,

That is true as well, however 'easier' to track and could get CB into hot water very quickly if discovered.

All that would have to happen is one vendor keep a close watch on the sales->download ratio, and if he started noticing license keys/etc being generated that didn't have corresponding sales, could question it very easily.

However, there are companies that do that

Easier to track suspicious activity, true
Blaming clickbank for this? nope!

They could easily say somone hacked your server, the page was not no-index or anything really... nothing to implicate them...

[jcaviani]

Not intentional? Just how many complaint emails and forum comments does it take before it's intentional?

I think it becomes more than intentional when there are repeated problems over many users reported in many venues that are not addressed by some sort of public relations effort. Sending canned emails implying you are some sort of banjo stummin' idiot is not a solution.

Maybe the clickbank people have been watching too many government bailouts and they have delusions about being too big to fail.

Frankly, the cookie method has too many pitfalls, not the least of which is a dollar hungry security industry set out to blur reality with their particular brand of fear mongering.

It never ceases to amaze me how many people will trip all over themselves to ignore the obvious and how much fiction has been written disguised as a rationale for less than truthful behavior.

The simple truth is simple and pathetic: If the problem were cutting into clickbank profits they would be on it faster than a dung beatle on dung, but since it's only affecting a bunch of proletariat affiliate plebes, let's let them look like a bunch of neophyte complainers while we appear to be above the fray sending out canned how-to instructions while we really do nothing except lie and steal.

How many times did the FTC ignore the case against Madoff that was gift wrapped and delivered on a silver platter?

[JayXtreme]

Originally Posted by jcaviani

Not intentional? Just how many complaint emails and forum comments does it take before it's intentional?

No amount of complaint e-mails and forum comments can make it intentional... only INTENT to deceive on Clickbank's part makes it intentional. And I for one, am not convinced this is some big scam on CB's end.

It's down to a lousy, outdated tracking service and set up on their server.

[Jeremy Kelsall]

If you are getting a SUBSTANTIAL amount of traffic to your account and in the past had a decent conversion rate but it has suddenly fallen off the fact of the earth...try setting up a new account and see what happens.

If you are getting 30 hops a day or some low number like that, you really can't guage anything with that,but if you are getting 100+ hops a day to a specific product and "all the sudden" are not getting any sales, give it a shot. I know of at least 10 people that have had a similar experience.

[Hamida Harland]

Originally Posted by Jeremy Kelsall

If you are getting a SUBSTANTIAL amount of traffic to your account and in the past had a decent conversion rate but it has suddenly fallen off the fact of the earth...try setting up a new account and see what happens.

If you are getting 30 hops a day or some low number like that, you really can't guage anything with that,but if you are getting 100+ hops a day to a specific product and "all the sudden" are not getting any sales, give it a shot. I know of at least 10 people that have had a similar experience.

Yep, I'm with Jeremy on this one. Over the past 2 months I've opened a new account nearly every 2 weeks and it works. And these aren't accounts with a small amount of hops either - I have accounts earning $200+ a day consistently that go down to $0, and then back to normal as soon as I open a new account. Thank goodness for my link cloaker or I'd be forever changing links . Sucks that I've had to go back to getting checks though because I really liked direct deposit.

[AdamWB]

Originally Posted by Jeremy Kelsall

If you are getting a SUBSTANTIAL amount of traffic to your account and in the past had a decent conversion rate but it has suddenly fallen off the fact of the earth...try setting up a new account and see what happens.

If you are getting 30 hops a day or some low number like that, you really can't guage anything with that,but if you are getting 100+ hops a day to a specific product and "all the sudden" are not getting any sales, give it a shot. I know of at least 10 people that have had a similar experience.

Ya, I'm going to try this today if I have the time. I'd be happy if I were getting a sale every 100 hops like I used to. It's now to the point where I'm getting thousands of hops before I get 1 commission sale. I'll report back later with my findings.

Also, I'm not sure how my original post was not proof enough for some of you guys. I got legitimate sales, and was not paid for them. There was no cookie / tracking issues, I just did NOT get paid. The only thing I could do to prove it further is to set up some camtasia video showing the whole process. And maybe it has come to that.

[Ryan Campbell]

ClickBank has been ripping people off for far too long. Not only do they charge way too much they also keep any affiliate sales made by faulty affiliate links, at least the vendor should get that.

If you want to use a better system which takes care of their vendors and affiliates you should check out PayGear.com

Its free to sign up and you get far more features for about half the price.

Warriors send me a PM and I will get you a $1000 promotion code

[forest1]

I found this thread interesting, I went from $150-$200 to nothing for a month and I have checked a lot of my affiliate links, in fact I have more active articles now than I did then but much fewer sales if any.

Just out of interest if you open a new account can you use the same hoplink a I have way too many links out there now to change them all individually

[Jeremy Kelsall]

Hello,

Originally Posted by forest1

Just out of interest if you open a new account can you use the same hoplink a I have way too many links out there now to change them all individually

No, I change my hoplinks on my main landing pages.

[JayXtreme]

With my important niche sites/accounts etc...

We use a link cloaker, so we can go into the dashboard and quickly edit out the faulty CB I.D. and place a new one in there.. works a charm and speeds up the process... not to mention hides ugly hoplinks

Peace

Jay

[forest1]

Thanks for info I will be trying these new ideas tonight, if only I had thought about that in the beginning its a lotta hop links

[ahefner33]

The thing is with all this, you can't really do anything about it. Even if you say get a mass of the people using them to stop, how do you go about that? Who needs to be informed about this so it can draw CB's attention? I kind of see this like with Adsense. People get nervous that their account can get banned for no obvious reason, so they want to switch but where can you go to find someone that equals Adsense?

Someone smart and had the knowledge/resources to start up a similar program like CB could make a killing.

I don't know. We can say all we want about them but who has the answer to start something that would draw attention to them and force them to change?

[Bryan Zimmerman]

It seems to happen to me like once every three weeks that the sales will just slow WAY down. You can just tell when it's happening because you'll have a couple products that just don't produce sales for a day or so like they normally do even though the hops are there.

Instead of changing links, I send them an email letting them know that their tracking is screwing up again, I have proof of someone buying through my link and it not showing up and that they need to get their **** together and fix what ever the problem is because they are not paying me my money like they should be.

Now I'll admit that may sound stupid, but EVERY time I have done this (3 so far), in less than 24 hours my sales go right back to where they were. So i'm not so sure that it isn't being done on purpose. I don't know how the sales could just get "turned back on" like that every single time it has happened.

I have the same account now that I started with months ago. I haven't ever changed it.

[jcaviani]

No amount of complaint e-mails and forum comments can make it intentional... only INTENT to deceive on Clickbank's part makes it intentional. And I for one, am not convinced this is some big scam on CB's end.
?

I think you missed my point. Unintentional means - you didn't mean to. How many "I didn't mean tos" do you need before it becomes intentional?

If you have droves of people saying your system is shaving sales and you do NOTHING except send canned emails saying, is your computer turned on, you DO mean to.

It may not be a clickbank scam, but as in politics, it's ultimately what people believe to be true that has the major affect.

The only way affiliates, the lowest rung on the food chain, will have an effect is if fewer people promote clickbank based affiliate products. Right now, there is enough new meat coming into the affiliate market every day for clickbank to laugh all the way to the bank. They don't have to care if YOU get paid because THEY still do.

But, as soon as THEIR profits are threatened in ANY way, their tune will magically change and some major pronouncement will suddenly appear as to how there is a problem afterall. We don't know how it went unnoticed, but now because we have all been born again, we are suddenly on your side.

Bottom line: Clickbank is engaged in a public relations game of brinksmanship and they will do nothing until someone forces their hand. They will atempt to stay above the fray and if they say anyhting at all, they will claim it's only a few neophytes having problems with their browsers or hoplinks. (sound familar)

You don’t have to look too far to see how money changes people.

[TerryTelford]

Hi Adam

I think we all have a beef with ClickBank in one way or another. I have experienced the same issues as you have with sales not getting properly credited. But my biggest beef as a ClickBank publisher is the "stupid" returns.

When I say "stupid" I'm referring to the reason for the return. ClickBank has refunded customers on more than one occassion with the customer's reason being "I don't know what I ordered."

2Checkout has a far supperior system where they work with the publisher and allow you to contact the customer and see if you can help, before simply issuing a refund.

So I am in the process of migrating all of my business over to PayPal and will be using PayDotCom to track my affiliates. Nothing is perfect, but I've had enough "stupid" for 2 lifetimes

Talk again soon.

Enjoy your day!
Terry

[Kay King]

Now I'll admit that may sound stupid, but EVERY time I have done this (3 so far), in less than 24 hours my sales go right back to where they were. So i'm not so sure that it isn't being done on purpose. I don't know how the sales could just get "turned back on" like that every single time it has happened.

That's interesting. I've never made the claim of "intentional theft" as I don't have the data to back it up (though some others here might).

The comment above sounds like a "reset". Makes me wonder if the problem is a bug in their system that they know about but only fix when it's pointed out to them.

I had the same experience with a new account that quickly had several hundred in sales and then died. In my case I changed to an old account I hadn't been using for a while and the sales picked up again.

Has anyone tried rotating accounts rather than opening new ones? Just curious.

kay

[Bryan Zimmerman]

Originally Posted by Kay King

That's interesting. I've never made the claim of "intentional theft" as I don't have the data to back it up (though some others here might).

The comment above sounds like a "reset". Makes me wonder if the problem is a bug in their system that they know about but only fix when it's pointed out to them.

I had the same experience with a new account that quickly had several hundred in sales and then died. In my case I changed to an old account I hadn't been using for a while and the sales picked up again.

Has anyone tried rotating accounts rather than opening new ones? Just curious.

kay

Thats pretty much what I was getting at. I think they have a way to "reset" the accounts so you don't have to change accounts again. It's the only thing that I can figure out as to why it almost immediately starts making sales like normal again once I email them.

[nmh]

Originally Posted by JonStein

Good Post, and Good responses:
However, here is something I discovered on Clickbank. I set up to promote a product and readied the landing page, etc etc, then I tested the hoplink, to follow through all the way and make sure the clickbank/paypal page shows affilliate=*ME*. It did! HOWEVER: when i exited the page a popup came up, as they do, and offered a discount if I purchased it. I followed the discount page to ensure the affiliate link would also be on the payment page. BUT, when I arrived at the 'discount paypal page' affiliate=none . So I investigated a little further, and here is what I found. When the popup came up, and I clicked,
it redirects to a NON-TRACKED page, in other words as if I entered the page directly and not through a hoplink. The redirected page was a totally different domain name. I do not think it is Clickbank, but it is the saavy marketers who set up redirect pages to avoid paying the affiliates.
My advice is to follow all redirects and check to make sure the affiliate=*you* at the bottom of the paypal page. I am not sure if this solves the overall problem, but needless to say I will not promote a product that uses these redirects.

I think you might have hit the nail on the head!!! This could be HUGE!

[AdamWB]

Originally Posted by Bryan Zimmerman

Thats pretty much what I was getting at. I think they have a way to "reset" the accounts so you don't have to change accounts again. It's the only thing that I can figure out as to why it almost immediately starts making sales like normal again once I email them.

Feel lucky they are at least getting back to you. In my email to them, I showed them 100% proof of what was going on. I wasn't rude or offensive, I just laid out out the facts, showed them the transaction #'s etc etc.

It's been over a week and I have yet to hear anything back. Hmmm....

[Bryan Zimmerman]

Originally Posted by AdamWB

Feel lucky they are at least getting back to you. In my email to them, I showed them 100% proof of what was going on. I wasn't rude or offensive, I just laid out out the facts, showed them the transaction #'s etc etc.

It's been over a week and I have yet to hear anything back. Hmmm....

Don't get me wrong, they don't respond to me. I've only got one email that was some bull**** automated resonse. I wrote them back and told them I didn't want their automated crap and that I wanted a real answer. I never got one. What I did get was my sales to start showing up again.

Now I know that clickbank is not "afraid" of me by any means. So I know they weren't like "Oh we better fix his account", what I think is that they know there is a problem, and they will "reset" what ever they reset to make it work again or clear out what ever is screwing up. Instead of asking for a response, I just told them I KNOW something is wrong and it needs to be fixed. Less than 24 hours later it was, all three times.

Just something to try and see if it works for others.

[Hamida Harland]

Originally Posted by Kay King

Has anyone tried rotating accounts rather than opening new ones? Just curious.

I have because I've always been hoping to use some of my older accounts which get paid by direct deposit. Checks aren't a great option for me because I've had checks go missing and they often take up to 2 weeks or more to arrive (I like to know exactly what day I'm getting my money). It didn't make any difference though - things only seem to get better when I open a new account.

[Steven Wagenheim]

They must be getting hammered with calls because I'm trying to get through
to them and keep getting an "all circuits busy" message.

Yesterday, I was on hold a half hour before I finally just gave up.

With all these problems, my post office lost one of my Clickbank checks that
should have come Saturday. It's now Wednesday and still no sign of it.

With my luck, they delivered it to somebody else and they went and cashed
it.

Oh what I'd give for some competent services in this world.

[kkchoon]

Apparently Jeremy is very true about this... see the rip off report:

Rip-off Report: Clickbank.com - Click Bank - CB - Affiliate Marketing WARNING: Clickbank.com Is Stealing Money From Affiliates - Click Bank Shaves Commission Boise Idaho

I can't imagine Clickbank doing this, if they don't stop ripping people off, I'm afraid people will start to file law suit against them, very soon!

Meanwhile, we just have to keep creating new accounts!

[Trader54]

I started with clickbank years ago and heard these same stories back then. Yet clickbank has grown bigger then ever.

I have had the same account since day one and the past 3 weeks have been my best this year so far. So no need to change accounts here.

Why keep bitching about it with these threads if you don't like clickbank just move on to some other program.

And doesn't this break rule #1? Or I guess clickbank is the exception.

[James Campbell]

Maybe someone should do a little investigative work, find the direct phone numbers and addresses for the top guys at CB and start sending them package, after package, after package and call after call after call.

A few weeks of that, especially if it is signed-received mail would wear anyone thin

Then the senders would also have proof that it has been received.

Does anyone live near the CB headquarters? Maybe drop in with a camera for an interview and actually ask what the hell is going on, with paper printout proof in hand. Dateline NBC style, like when they catch the perverts in the act trying to get with kids.



James

[Jeremy Kelsall]

The answer is easy....

Originally Posted by Trader54

I started with clickbank years ago and heard these same stories back then. Yet clickbank has grown bigger then ever.

I have had the same account since day one and the past 3 weeks have been my best this year so far. So no need to change accounts here.

Why keep bitching about it with these threads if you don't like clickbank just move on to some other program.

And doesn't this break rule #1? Or I guess clickbank is the exception.

Because there is not a good alternative to them. It's highly unlikely that I'm suddenly just going to stop promoting clickbank products and forfeit the thousands of dollars a month that they pay me lol

Like I said, I'll continue changing accounts and increasing their administrative costs...what difference does it make to me?

If you are not having a problem with them, that's great! But, why come into a thread and try to down talk the rest of us when you have some fairly seasoned people saying that clickbank is skimming and that it is for the most part proven?

If you want to think the best, have at it. As for myself, I prefer to base
my decisions and thoughts on reality.

[kkchoon]

Another blog post and comments about clickbank...

The Clickbank Mafia | Clickbank Is Stealing My Money | Tatumba.com

[Trader54]

Originally Posted by Jeremy Kelsall

If you are not having a problem with them, that's great! But, why come into a thread and try to down talk the rest of us when you have some fairly seasoned people saying that clickbank is skimming and that it is for the most part proven?

If you want to think the best, have at it. As for myself, I prefer to base
my decisions and thoughts on reality.

Mine are based on reality to.

And from my understanding this forum is open to opposite opinions
and experiences.

[Steven Wagenheim]

Well, I just got off the phone with them and got all my accounts switched to
direct deposit. I'm fed up with my post office more than I'm annoyed with
Clickbank.

I don't know, say what you want, but in all the years I've been dealing with
them, they've been nothing but polite and helpful over the phone. I've never
had a problem that wasn't resolved.

I just don't know what to make of any of this.

[ShayRockhold]

Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim

John Doe buys from my hop link.
I don't get credit for sale.
I call Clickbank and they say either "somebody else did" or "nobody did".

In most cases, if nobody did and I get the customer to complain to
Clickbank (because I offer bonuses) they credit me with the sale.

So what happens to all of the commissions where the affiliate=none and no customer complains to the affiliate? (So the affiliate cannot contact CB and ask, "Where's my money?" )

You say "in most cases" with no affiliate listed, you get credit for the sale. Who the heck gets credit if they don't let you get it?

[AdamWB]

Originally Posted by Trader54

I started with clickbank years ago and heard these same stories back then. Yet clickbank has grown bigger then ever.

I have had the same account since day one and the past 3 weeks have been my best this year so far. So no need to change accounts here.

Why keep bitching about it with these threads if you don't like clickbank just move on to some other program.

And doesn't this break rule #1? Or I guess clickbank is the exception.

Lol, read my first post. I used to be in your same position. Thought everyone was delusional, and it made no sense. Until it started happening to me. Mind you I was with CB for several years before it just started recently happening. So don't think your immune by any means.

People who are skeptical of all this, just look at the proof. You have some pretty well respected members of WF that are being affected by this. Your opinion is your own, but don't tell us to turn the other cheek and ignore the issue. Maybe it will take CB picking hundreds of dollars per day in sales from under your nose to believe it.

I hope the link in that other post is true. Involving the FBI may be what turns the tide. Only time will tell.

[Hamida Harland]

Originally Posted by Trader54

Mine are based on reality to.

And from my understanding this forum is open to opposite opinions
and experiences.

Of course, and I do believe that not everyone is experiencing these problems. However it's not that we don't like Clickbank (I certainly do) - people just want to see some solutions to the problem.

[Steven Wagenheim]

Originally Posted by ShayRockhold

So what happens to all of the commissions where the affiliate=none and no customer complains to the affiliate? (So the affiliate cannot contact CB and ask, "Where's my money?" )

You say "in most cases" with no affiliate listed, you get credit for the sale. Who the heck gets credit if they don't let you get it?

In those other cases, I would have to guess that just the merchant gets
credit for the sale. But I can count those instances in 6 plus years on less
than one hand.

Please don't get me wrong. I'm not saying there aren't problems. I'm sure
there are. I'm just not so sure that these problems are a deliberate attempt
on Clickbank's part to defraud people.

Does that make me naive? Maybe...but I have to believe that people are
essentially good or we might as well just nuke this rock and start all over.

[Trader54]

Originally Posted by AdamWB

Lol, read my first post. I used to be in your same position. Thought everyone was delusional, and it made no sense. Until it started happening to me. Mind you I was with CB for several years before it just started recently happening. So don't think your immune by any means.

People who are skeptical of all this, just look at the proof. You have some pretty well respected members of WF that are being affected by this. Your opinion is your own, but don't tell us to turn the other cheek and ignore the issue. Maybe it will take CB picking hundreds of dollars per day in sales from under your nose to believe it.

I hope the link in that other post is true. Involving the FBI may be what turns the tide. Only time will tell.

I been with them over 5 years now with the same account. I heard horror stories back then.

I hope your not referring to the rip off report. That is a joke. Anyone can post whatever they like to that site. If you believed all the horror reports you can read about paypal and lot of other payment processors who would you use?

I still have not heard of any affiliate network better then clickbank.

[kkchoon]

Originally Posted by Trader54

I been with them over 5 years now with the same account. I heard horror stories back then.

I hope your not referring to the rip off report. That is a joke. Anyone can post whatever they like to that site. If you believed all the horror reports you can read about paypal and lot of other payment processors who would you use?

I still have not heard of any affiliate network better then clickbank.

Just a quick question, you never experience a sudden drop in sale? Why did Jeremy switch account and all the sudden the conversion back again?

I can only imagine you make a lot of money and lost count...

[Steven Wagenheim]

Originally Posted by Trader54

I been with them over 5 years now with the same account. I heard horror stories back then.

I hope your not referring to the rip off report. That is a joke. Anyone can post whatever they like to that site. If you believed all the horror reports you can read about paypal and lot of other payment processors who would you use?

I still have not heard of any affiliate network better then clickbank.

And that really is the biggest problem and the cause of all this frustration.

There is simply nobody better.

If I'm wrong, tell me who it is?

Tell me who will pay your affiliates for you.

Tell me who has as popular a marketplace, where you at least have a shot
at somebody finding your product and promoting it.

Tell me what other marketplace, as an affiliate, you don't have to worry
about the merchant not paying you the commissions you're owed. My
experiences with PayDotcom have made it so that the ONLY way I will
promote anything from that place is if I know the merchant personally.

So please...somebody tell me who is better.

That's why I said earlier that whining about this problem (I agree there
are problems, though I am not exactly sure I agree with what they are
or if they are intentional) does no good.

Come up with solutions.

Get a hold of a big name marketer or group of marketers who would be
willing to make enough noise about this that it makes a difference.

Somebody come up with an alternative to Clickbank that will have
affiliates AND merchants flocking to them in droves.

Until somebody does that, all of this is just blowing off steam.

And personally, I think there are more productive ways to spend your time.

[cncbuss]

I have heard the same in my circle of friends that CB is less than perfectly honest, and I'm sure there is fraud in some form there. But how can we cure the problem when we have no control over the situation? I woud dread being a newbie and spending a whole lot of money (which newbies often cannot afford to lose) on advertising only to get my click-throughs ripped off. Man, that really sucks.

[Trader54]

Originally Posted by kkchoon

Just a quick question, you never experience a sudden drop in sale? Why did Jeremy switch account and all the sudden the conversion back again?

I can only imagine you make a lot of money and lost count...

Good question.

Yes I have had wide swings, I have 4 figure days and I have had 0 dollar days.

Even if I looked at my stats and compared week to week I could be pulling my
hair out. Just the other nite I looked at my last 3 years of data. Total traffic
year to year and my total sales. Now thats on a yearly basis, and I can't believe
how close it is as far as revenue per visitor.

When I see some post and say I have 250 hops and no sales what is wrong clickbank is
ripping me off. I have experienced the same thing, then I could get 25 hits and have 4
sales. You have to look at it more long term. Traffic quality changes so much.

[locke]

If people are unsatisfied with clickbank either as affiliates or people selling their own products, I would strongly recommend PAYDOTCOM.com... it has a great repuatation so far and they use paypal as their trusted payment system which makes buyers feel extremely safe... i've made several commissions from marketing affiliate products with their system and i've also tested their system on several occasions... haven't been let down yet (btw im not affiliated with their company, just a fan lol...)

[Jeremy Kelsall]

Hello,

Originally Posted by Trader54

Mine are based on reality to.

And from my understanding this forum is open to opposite opinions
and experiences.

nobody said that opinions and experiences were not welcome or encouraged. But, I'm a little more than fed up with the "There is nothing wrong with clickbank" defense. Obviously there is, if it were not true then I wouldn't be able to for the most part control my income by switching accounts.

I'm not the only one doing it either. There were 3 other posters just in this thread that have reported the same experience.

If your experience has been good, that is great. But, don't try to convince the people that are getting screwed that nothing is going on, because there is something going on.