Question About Twitter and Trademark, etc.

[BizBoost]

Does anyone know what the scoop is with using a domain that has the name "Twitter" in it? Some of the bigger services like, "TweetLater" do not, and maybe for good reason... to avoid issues in the future.

I've always felt that stuff like Twitter, in its grassroots phase, almost likes and encourages people to use their name in ways that help promote and round out the service.

But, what if, for example, they are bought out by Google, or some other company? Do you think such a company (or even Twitter itself right now!) could decide to legally target whomever they want whenever they want if that person used the "Twitter" name in their domain?

I really need to be clear on this because if they CAN legally take such domains at ANY time, then I'd rather use an attractive name with something like "tweet" in it than "twitter."

What do you think?

Thanks,
Eric

[Gene Pimentel]

Using ANY Trademarked name in a domain name is very risky business. In order to use it safely, you must have written permission from them for whatever specific use you have in mind. If you don't have written permission, you can sometimes get away with it by using the domain for a completely unrelated subject, but that would be defeating the purpose.

A Trademark holder must show that you are using their TM in "bad faith" to successfully sue you. But even if you can prove there is no "bad faith", are you willing to hire a lawyer to fight it in court with a company who has deeper pockets than Trump?

Originally Posted by BizBoost

Do you think such a company (or even Twitter itself right now!) could decide to legally target whomever they want whenever they want if that person used the "Twitter" name in their domain?

They can, and DO. They have every right to prevent others from capitalizing on their Trademark. Even if they seem to allow some to use it, what they tolerate today may change tomorrow.

[Dan C. Rinnert]

They have a page where you can download their logo in PNG, PSD and even AI format, but they don't seem to have any guidelines for use of their logo. You'd think they'd have some guidelines and, if they do, that they would be on or linked to on the download page.

Anyway, use of the Twitter name in a title might be okay. It may be okay to use it in a domain name too. Maybe. I'm not a lawyer. I wouldn't use it in a domain name, just to avoid any potential problems.

The determining factor seems to be whether it is considered nominative use. Note that use of a trademarked name may be okay, but not the trademarked logo.

[BizBoost]

Originally Posted by Gene Pimentel

A Trademark holder must show that you are using their TM in "bad faith" to successfully sue you. But even if you can prove there is no "bad faith", are you willing to hire a lawyer to fight it in court with a company who has deeper pockets than Trump?

They can, and DO. They have every right to prevent others from capitalizing on their Trademark. Even if they seem to allow some to use it, what they tolerate today may change tomorrow.

Point well taken, but, as the person just below said, they DO give away some material for private use so one would think that represents a "right-to-use" in good faith. I wonder what court would, seeing that they allow people to use some trademarked material in ways that help promote Twitter, allow someone's whole business to be yanked down without a clear show of "bad faith."

As for deep pockets, hmm, I wonder if there's lawyers who would take the case for the countersuit for damaging a business where they encourage use of materials for promotion then arbitrarily decide to interrupt someone for doing so ethically?

Originally Posted by Dan C. Rinnert

They have a page where you can download their logo in PNG, PSD and even AI format, but they don't seem to have any guidelines for use of their logo. You'd think they'd have some guidelines and, if they do, that they would be on or linked to on the download page.

Anyway, use of the Twitter name in a title might be okay. It may be okay to use it in a domain name too. Maybe. I'm not a lawyer. I wouldn't use it in a domain name, just to avoid any potential problems.

The determining factor seems to be whether it is considered nominative use. Note that use of a trademarked name may be okay, but not the trademarked logo.

Funny, you said they give twitter pictures out for use. And that logo is all over the web on individually created "follow me" buttons...

My main concern is one that, unfortunately, assumes "bad faith" on the part of the owning company. If I have a related business that BOOMS, would they, out of pure greed, attempt to uproot it or interrupt it... after all, we're all cute promoting and using them but imagine if someone figured a way to leverage them.

Best wishes,
Eric

[Gene Pimentel]

Originally Posted by BizBoost

Point well taken, but, as the person just below said, they DO give away some material for private use so one would think that represents a "right-to-use" in good faith. I wonder what court would, seeing that they allow people to use some trademarked material in ways that help promote Twitter, allow someone's whole business to be yanked down without a clear show of "bad faith."

Understand there is a distinct difference between using their specific promotional items and creating your own. Registering a domain with their TM in it is creating your own form of promotion. It takes away their control over it. Yes, they want you to promote. But they want you to promote according to their specific allowances.

http://www.nolo.com/article.cfm/obje...1/228/195/ART/
(not an affiliate link) be sure to continue to page 2,3,4

[Gene Pimentel]

Originally Posted by TMG Enterprises

The word twitter cannot be trademarked as it was already an existing word - twitter definition | Dictionary.com

Tina G

Windows was a common word too. Now it's a valid Trademark. When a word is used in a business capacity, it is "trademarkabe" even if it is a common word. As I mentioned earlier, if you used "twitter" for something entirely different, they cannot peg you for "bad faith". That doesn't mean they can't sue you and make you defend that standpoint though. It happens all the time in the domain world.

[Dan C. Rinnert]

Originally Posted by Gene Pimentel

Windows was a common word too. Now it's a valid Trademark.

So were Apple, Camel, Discovery and Visa.

[DavidTheMavin]

Once they get bought by some huge multi-national like Google or Yahoo the domain will be worthless, so try to sell it now while Twitter is too busy trying to keep their servers running to care.

[Gene Pimentel]

Here's another good resource to learn about TM's & domains:
Domain Name Disputes (BitLaw)

[cookies]

While the prospect of getting sued may seem scary, any company of any real size and worth isn't going to start off with a lawsuit...lawsuits are just too expensive as a first line of defense.

You'll get a nice letter first saying something like "we've owned this trademark for quite some time and see you're using it. please stop." The next letter will be a formal cease and desist, and the third letter will be from a law firm making all sorts of noise about litigation. There are many paths this could take, depending on how you respond and whether or not you ask for a fight.

[BizBoost]

Again, a quick thanks for everyone's generous replies. Thank you. My answers below:

Originally Posted by Gene Pimentel

Understand there is a distinct difference between using their specific promotional items and creating your own. Registering a domain with their TM in it is creating your own form of promotion. It takes away their control over it. Yes, they want you to promote. But they want you to promote according to their specific allowances.

I gotcha, thanks. As we all probably know too well, starting anything out, there's a romantic, or passionate, feel to the whole affair but, as things develop, it starts to become, "all business." What's cute and fun, and seems like an asset from the start, becomes, to concerned business owners, a "potential liability" once things get going. I'm thinking it's good to keep that in mind regarding domain choice. Thanks, Gene, for helping me to be more clear about that.

Originally Posted by TMG Enterprises

The word twitter cannot be trademarked as it was already an existing word.

Hi Tina, until Gene and Dan shattered my trance, I was happily dreaming about this along with you. Thanks for wanting to help, though.

Originally Posted by Gene Pimentel

Windows was a common word too. Now it's a valid Trademark. When a word is used in a business capacity, it is "trademarkabe" even if it is a common word. As I mentioned earlier, if you used "twitter" for something entirely different, they cannot peg you for "bad faith". That doesn't mean they can't sue you and make you defend that standpoint though. It happens all the time in the domain world.

Even in a non-domain sense, I remember an article where Intel, who was known for "Intel Inside", sued an art store for "Art Inside" and they couldn't defend themselves so they had to change.

Originally Posted by Dan C. Rinnert

So were Apple, Camel, Discovery and Visa.

Good ones.

Originally Posted by DavidTheMavin

Once they get bought by some huge multi-national like Google or Yahoo the domain will be worthless, so try to sell it now while Twitter is too busy trying to keep their servers running to care.

Understood, David, however, I don't yet own such a domain and wasn't intending to sell one. I am intending to buy one... for a related business. I don't want Google buying Twitter, for example, and then putting me out of commission while I have 10000s of people flooding through the site on a dialy basis. That would just be a disaster so I'm doing due diligence now.

Originally Posted by Gene Pimentel

Here's another good resource to learn about TM's & domains:
Domain Name Disputes (BitLaw)

Thanks, again, oh mighty Gene!

Originally Posted by cookies

While the prospect of getting sued may seem scary, any company of any real size and worth isn't going to start off with a lawsuit...lawsuits are just too expensive as a first line of defense.

You'll get a nice letter first saying something like "we've owned this trademark for quite some time and see you're using it. please stop."

Right, makes sense to do things nice and neighborly, at first, anyways.

Originally Posted by cookies

The next letter will be a formal cease and desist, and the third letter will be from a law firm making all sorts of noise about litigation. There are many paths this could take, depending on how you respond and whether or not you ask for a fight.

Yeah, I've been sent one of those by Rolex and WhyPark

Thanks, so far, to everyone... I appreciate the help. I've thanked you all up via the button.

Eric