Screwed First By My Customer And Then By Paypal. What Can I Do?

15 years ago

Ouch! Sorry sorry to hear this happened.

I would keep on pushing it with PayPal. Send them copies of emails you sent to the buyer showing you gave the details to them. If you don't push with PayPal, they will stick to their guns and support the buyer.

If they see you are pushing and willingly providing proof, hopefully they will believe your side and reimburse you the funds.

Thanks
1 reply

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goldie22 15 years ago

Hi Esr,

Even though Paypal has put a hold on the funds, that doesn't mean they have given him the money. If the buyer won't cooperate in trying to close the dispute you can escalate the dispute to a claim. You will then have the opportunity to provide your proof of delivering as promised. The buyer will also have a chance to respond with any proof. Then after 10 days Paypal will review the case and make their decision whether or not to release the funds. Make screenshots of the whois to prove the domain is in his name, and that along with your email should be sufficient evidence and most likely Paypal will rule in your favor and take the hold off the funds. You need to take the screen shots ASAP or he may sell the domain himself to someone else and then the whois won't match him.

If you just leave it as a dispute and don't escalate it, it could drag out longer if the buyer is trying to scam you. Paypal considers a dispute a conversation between 2 people and they don't make a ruling unless it escalates to a claim. Even though you may have already submitted the email as evidence in the dispute, you will need to submit again after you escalate it.

Cheers,

Debbie
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stanleylyndon

15 years ago

Why didn't you use Escrow in the first place? This happened to me once. I called GoDaddy right away and they directed me to some setting in the domain manager where I could cancel the transfer (if it had not finished already). Thankfully, it was still in the process and I managed to get it back.

Thanks
1 reply

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esr

15 years ago

Originally Posted by stanleylyndon

Why didn't you use Escrow in the first place? This happened to me once. I called GoDaddy right away and they directed me to some setting in the domain manager where I could cancel the transfer (if it had not finished already). Thankfully, it was still in the process and I managed to get it back.

Escrow? Can anyone explain what that is? If it's something that would protect me, I'll do it.

Thanks
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sarasayshi 15 years ago

Originally Posted by esr

Escrow? Can anyone explain what that is? If it's something that would protect me, I'll do it.

Read this https://www.escrow.com/solutions/domain_name/index.asp

It's a bit late for you though. This is something you should have done to sell it in the first place.
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James Schramko

15 years ago

There will always be one dishonest person every 100 or so transactions.

I feel for you. These people are scumbags and they will get it handed to
them one day!

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getinmoney

Banned 15 years ago

Honestly I think paypal are thieves sometime. I had the sam issue except I was the buyer I told them I didn't receive anything and was scammed and they said they couldn't do anything. And gave the seller the money and I got nothing back the guy even blocked my email and messenger. Yea thats fraud. I think who ever does more business with them thats who they give the money to.

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Lokesh Sharma

Banned 15 years ago

Okay here's my 2 cents,
It has happened with me and all I did was contact GoDaddy and got my domain back.
It was a small amount back then so I didn't bother about the files etc.

What You can do is search for any part of text you had in your website's files and complaint to the web host hosting those files. It's possible that he hasn't yet uploaded those file though, but what else can he do with them?

On another note, don't hope to have the SCAMMER return your money, CALL PayPal and explain everything to them. I've an EVIL way to get anyone's PayPal limited but considering the *risks* I've never tried it.

I get "unauthorised payments" and "product not received" chargebacks much too often and there's little to no what I can do about it. PayPal usually favors the buyer huh!

- Lokesh Sharma

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cashcow

15 years ago

Have you gotten a reply from the buyer? What is the status of the claim in your paypal account?

The reason I ask is that I once had this happen to me. The buyer initiated the dispute "by mistake" and immediately contacted paypal to resolve it. BUT, in my account, it still said "awaiting buyer response" or some such thing. It took paypal a couple of WEEKS before it actually gave the dispute the right resolution and returned the money to my account even though the buyer had resolved it right away in his account.

So, you might not be out the money yet!

Lee

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Kim Standerline

15 years ago

You probably don't want to hear this cos you are probably kicking yourself anyway for doing it, but I'm really surprised u pushed the domain name to him after he filed his dispute. (He must have been whooping with glee)

Good luck on getting your money back
Kim

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Black Hat Cat

Banned 15 years ago

Originally Posted by Kim Standerline

You probably don't want to hear this cos you are probably kicking yourself anyway for doing it, but I'm really surprised u pushed the domain name to him after he filed his dispute. (He must have been whooping with glee)

Kim

I was thinking the same thing. That part makes zero sense.

Thanks
2 replies

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Dan C. Rinnert 15 years ago

If the end result is that you don't get your money and the buyer still ends up with your blog, then look into filing a DMCA notice against the site. I'm not a lawyer but if you entered into an agreement to transfer your copyright interest in a site for x dollars and you didn't receive x dollars, then the copyright is still yours, even if the buyer has the digital files.

The end result of your situation may be very little different than if someone had scraped your site. In either event, they are effectively using your copyrighted content without permission.

Again, though, I'm not a lawyer.
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Dan C. Rinnert 15 years ago

Originally Posted by blackhatcat

I was thinking the same thing. That part makes zero sense.

I was thinking that too, but I figured "panic mode" might have set in at that point.
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esr

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Kim Standerline

You probably don't want to hear this cos you are probably kicking yourself anyway for doing it, but I'm really surprised u pushed the domain name to him after he filed his dispute. (He must have been whooping with glee)

Good luck on getting your money back
Kim

I thought about it at the time. But, I guess naively (sp?) I thought/hoped that once the domain name was transferred into his name, he'd call off Paypal by canceling the dispute.

Needless to say, I was wrong.

I have taken some of the advice from all of you. I emailed the buyer and told him that if he didn't cancel the dispute by a certain time, I'd be canceling the domain transfer. I also changed the password on his hosting account that I gave him and deleted all of the files for now.

I realize that may not do any good since he could have downloaded them already, but I was pissed.

I will DEFINITELY be looking into the escrow thing, too. Thank you all for your help.

Thanks
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Paul Myers 15 years ago

Some good points here.

There's a technique I suggest for folks who want to do these things, especially flipping sites with domains included.

Set up a separate Gmail account, just for these. Then set up a forwarding address on your domain that sends the emails to your main address and to the Gmail account. Reply from that forwarding address, and BCC all related correspondence on these transactions to the Gmail account.

When (not if) problems like this arise, explain your system and give the log-in info to the necessary parties. In this case, PayPal and your registrar.

*Poof*

Proof.

When the case is resolved, just change the password, or create another account for future "blind" storage.

One caveat: Gmail will refuse some attachments. (Haven't bothered to figure out the rules on that yet.) Follow up any email that sends the customer an attachment with another saying, "Just in case your spam filters blocked the attachment, here's a link to download the files."

This is not a substitute for escrow, by any means, but it's a useful technique in addition to it, as well as for other circumstances in which escrow may not be an option.

Paul
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thegamecat

15 years ago

The net is basically the wildwest right now so you gotta protect yourself.

Here's some steps that can help:
Give out nothing until you have their money in your paypal.
Transfer this money to another paypal account -leaving nothing in the account they just paid into.
Transfer the domain first.
Then the apps.
Then give access.

I've not sold a huge amount of sites but those I have I've used this process for.

Sitepoint can be a real pool of sharks.

Thanks

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Mark .W. James

15 years ago

this is what i do....
call them at 1-402-935-2050
and i cut some onions while im at it....
explain everything properly....
and dont forget to use the " i am the one paying paypal the fees so why is it that paypal NEVER supports me ? "

the payment gets refunded instantly when the buyer makes a chargeback directly from the bank or his credit card......

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billaaa777

15 years ago

Good luck is all I have to say. To bad for you. Escrow is the why to go on this issue from now on.

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Richard Tunnah

15 years ago

I'm afraid you're screwed as paypal won't find in your favour on digital services. If you are buying or selling domains or website you should always use an escrow service like escrow.com that protect both parties.

Rich

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Donna Dueck

15 years ago

If all your content was unique, put together a WSO and sell PLR rights (including the blog) at a really good price, at least this way he won't have a unique site. And you can recover some of your money.

Donna

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grumpyb

15 years ago

There is so much fraud on the Internet today It makes doing business on digital items very difficult. Even buying Links can be a minefeild with so many false PR systems and people demanding money up front.
On the physical goods side of things I as a result only deal in my country Australia and I have resolved after reading so many Paypal scam stories that I will pursue any scammer within Australia untill I get my money back.
It is far more difficult when dealing with people overseas but I am now looking for contact details like telephone numbers and adresses for anyone I do business with.
At least with Skype you can telephone people around the world.

So in this case Do you have any contact details and have you tried calling the person ? I find that people have a different attitude when communication is not so anonymous

So Why is it a lot of people want to remain anonymous on the Internet ?

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Floyd Fisher

15 years ago

Originally Posted by esr

Any advice on what I should do would be greatly appreciated.

I sold a blog just a few days ago. I sent all files and usernames, passwords, etc to the buyer.

I asked the buyer for their GoDaddy ID so I could push the domain to them.

Well, I never got a response and after just 24 hours, the buyer initiates a dispute with Paypal saying they never got what they paid for. Paypal immediately took the money from my account. I was shocked. How could they give him the money back when they don't even have my side of the story? Anyway.....

I responded to the dispute at Paypal, emailed the buyer asking again for their ID, got their ID, pushed the domain name to them on GoDaddy, and sent Paypal a copy of the confirmation email that GoDaddy sent to me stating that the domain had been transferred.

I asked the buyer to please cancel the Paypal dispute, but not surprisingly, he hasn't. Why should he, when he's gotten everything he paid for AND gotten his money refunded?

Paypal hasn't responded to me or given me the money back. I feel so completely helpless right now. This was no small amount of money. And I feel like Paypal and the customer have me by the proverbial b*lls.

Is there anything else I can do to get the money back?

At this point, the only thing you can do is hope paypal holds up your side of the story, and releases the funds to you. Otherwise, you will need to goto court.

Make sure you print out all your emails, so you have proof on your end. Otherwise you're screwed.

Thanks

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Screwed First By My Customer And Then By Paypal. What Can I Do?

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