Do you think marketers are getting carried away with sales funnels?

Profile picture of the author TheNewGuy2010 by TheNewGuy2010 Posted: 01/24/2013
What I mean is, I've purchased ebooks about sales funnels and there is always a "cheat sheet" and there is a mind-map layout. It looks more like a maze.

The process goes like this: If the they don't buy this, they'll get transferred to this, it they buy this, they'll get offered this, if they pass on that, they'll get a downsale on this, if the buy that, they'll get a offer for this.......and on and on.


Is this called "Jump through hoops" marketing?


I wonder if it's a ego trip more than anything. Or is it, everyone else is doing it, so it must be working, so I'll follow along and do it too, even if it doesn't make any sense.


What are your thoughts?
#carried #funnels #marketers #sales

  • Profile picture of the author drewfioravanti
    drewfioravanti
    Sounds like you are explaining a transaction process and not a sales funnel.

    A sales funnel is more of a business model.
  • Profile picture of the author buffnstuff
    buffnstuff
    It's the latest fad in Internet Marketing. I have to agree with you on it being annoying. I have seen it a lot here on the Warrior forum with many of the latest WSOs released.

    Not to hijack your thread, but what I also find annoying are all the OTOs. It's ridiculous sometimes and let's not forget all of the worthless bonuses too and last but not least, all of the affiliates / JVs jumping on the same offers and filling your inbox with the exact same copy from the product developer's swipe files for the offers.

    Jeez! At least take a minute to put your own spin on the swipe email or better yet actually, heaven forbid, give a real review of the product.
  • Profile picture of the author jasonl70
    jasonl70
    The idea is very simple: keep offering them more products if they are agreeing to buy them. If they are willing to spend more money with you, then let them. Once they say no, you stop offering (well, there's a last ditch downsell tossed in).

    When Launch Tree came out, they had several case studies showing conversion rates at the various points/steps of this -and it was very compelling.
  • Profile picture of the author LillySage
    LillySage
    Just seems like basic marketing to me...nothing new.
  • Profile picture of the author Joseph Then
    Joseph Then
    My question to you will be: Do you think McDonald's are getting carried away with asking questions like "Would you like to upgrade a set meal?", "How about fries to go with it?", etc.
  • Profile picture of the author GailTrahd
    GailTrahd
    I think that people in the IM space are more used to seeing this process because we probably (no stats to back up this statement!) buy more than the average Joe. The reason it's used is because it works. The great thing is that there is a button at the bottom that says "no thanks". This transaction process is an accelerated sales funnel.
  • Profile picture of the author Kay King
    Kay King
    I think many misinterpret the process of a funnel. If your customer feels like a ping pong ball or a pincushion - you aren't doing it right.

    A funnel should be a smooth transition from one purchase to a related offer or info - not a barrage of "buy this" links or sending people on your list to related list signup pages day after day.

    If it begins to look like a convoluted sales scheme - you lose.

    The purpose of a funnel is to effortlessly channel something to where you want it to go. It can easily be overdone and many IMers do that.
  • Profile picture of the author Dustin Lyle
    Dustin Lyle
    "TPSF" - The Perfect Sales Funnel

    .... That is what I've seen it called recently on a webinar.
    An elaborate set of sales pages and OTO's. Supposedly,
    somewhere, someone did a huge market test and found that
    TPSF sqeezed the most money out of a prospective customers,
    or better put, A higher EPC.
  • Profile picture of the author oldschoolwarrior
    oldschoolwarrior
    Would you like to try our new CBO?
    No? Ok, would you like fries with that?
    Anything to drink?
    How about a fresh apple pie?
  • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
    JohnMcCabe
    Originally Posted by Dustin Lyle View Post

    "TPSF" - The Perfect Sales Funnel

    .... That is what I've seen it called recently on a webinar.
    An elaborate set of sales pages and OTO's. Supposedly,
    somewhere, someone did a huge market test and found that
    TPSF sqeezed the most money out of a prospective customers,
    or better put, A higher EPC.
    Let me guess...

    At some point in the webinar was an offer to either teach how to build this so-called 'perfect sales funnel', build it for people for a price, or both.

    It's true that sales funnels are getting more sophisticated, but 'sophisticated' and 'complex' aren't necessarily the same thing. And 'earnings per click' is a short term metric suited to a one-time process, as opposed to 'lifetime value of a customer', which is more important to me.

    I'm sure someone will come back and say you can have both. Some can, but it takes more skill than most can bring to bear...
  • Profile picture of the author buffnstuff
    buffnstuff
    John I have to agree with you. Many marketers are only looking at the short term. Make a killing today and to hell with the customer. They just want the maximum bang today. They forget that over the long term more could be made if the customer trusts and follows you long term.

    I guess some believe in one in the hand beats 2 in the bush. But piss off enough people and guess where you can stick that funnel?

    Originally Posted by JohnMcCabe View Post

    Let me guess...

    At some point in the webinar was an offer to either teach how to build this so-called 'perfect sales funnel', build it for people for a price, or both.

    It's true that sales funnels are getting more sophisticated, but 'sophisticated' and 'complex' aren't necessarily the same thing. And 'earnings per click' is a short term metric suited to a one-time process, as opposed to 'lifetime value of a customer', which is more important to me.

    I'm sure someone will come back and say you can have both. Some can, but it takes more skill than most can bring to bear...
  • Profile picture of the author paul nicholls
    paul nicholls
    I do believe in offering your customer an extra package if they bought the last one... ahem (this is called marketing)

    i find it fascinating that some marketers complain about being marketed to lol

    we are marketers and we market our products, skills and services

    if you went into a bike shop and purchased a bicycle would you complain if the guy in the store said to you "would you like to include a full set of protective clothing with your order sir" before you got to the checkout?

    just think how many times this happens in stores, it happens all the time but we just never think about it

    i will admit that some people online do go over the top and have like 9 exit pop ups etc, i mean that is pretty insane but at the end of the day if it's working for them then that's cool
  • Profile picture of the author buffnstuff
    buffnstuff
    Paul the point I was making is, we as Internet Marketers tell people all of the time to follow one thing until it is successful before pursuing something else, then we turn right around and offer them some loosely related or unrelated BONUS product, that ultimately distracts the customer from the main product. Or worse we hand them off to our JV partner who is now marking another shinny object for the optin.

    Then we berate them for the "Shinny Object" syndrome but we create this problem and people wonder why they can't get anywhere in IM and ultimately give up and thus we lose a customer.

    Again sacrificing the long term benefits for the short term gain. I think many marketers are too greedy to accept they are actually killing the goose that lays the golden eggs and are only focused on the eggs and to hell with the goose.


    Originally Posted by paul nicholls View Post

    I do believe in offering your customer an extra package if they bought the last one... ahem (this is called marketing)

    i find it fascinating that some marketers complain about being marketed to lol

    we are marketers and we market our products, skills and services

    if you went into a bike shop and purchased a bicycle would you complain if the guy in the store said to you "would you like to include a full set of protective clothing with your order sir" before you got to the checkout?

    just think how many times this happens in stores, it happens all the time but we just never think about it

    i will admit that some people online do go over the top and have like 9 exit pop ups etc, i mean that is pretty insane but at the end of the day if it's working for them then that's cool
  • Profile picture of the author paul nicholls
    paul nicholls
    yeah that's cool :-)

    i was mainly talking about some other marketers that i have come across that really complain when they buy a product off another marketer and complain that they are sent to an upsell :-)

    i know some people do get carried away though with their funnels ha!


    Originally Posted by buffnstuff View Post

    Paul the point I was making is, we as Internet Marketers tell people all of the time to follow one thing until it is successful before pursuing something else, then we turn right around and offer them some loosely related or unrelated BONUS product, that ultimately distracts the customer from the main product. Or worse we hand them off to our JV partner who is now marking another shinny object for the optin.

    Then we berate them for the "Shinny Object" syndrome but we create this problem and people wonder why they can't get anywhere in IM and ultimately give up and thus we lose a customer.

    Again sacrificing the long term benefits for the short term gain. I think many marketers are too greedy to accept they are actually killing the goose that lays the golden eggs and are only focused on the eggs and to hell with the goose.
  • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
    JohnMcCabe
    Originally Posted by paul nicholls View Post

    yeah that's cool :-)

    i was mainly talking about some other marketers that i have come across that really complain when they buy a product off another marketer and complain that they are sent to an upsell :-)

    i know some people do get carried away though with their funnels ha!
    Using your bike shop analogy, suppose you bought the bike and then the shop owner bolted the door and told you you couldn't leave with the bike until he was done offering you more stuff?
  • Profile picture of the author alvinchua91
    alvinchua91
    Well, it does work... Almost every vendor does it
  • Profile picture of the author Nicole K
    Nicole K
    The concept of sales funnels is a bit annoying but at times you may find what you may have been looking for. In case you don't want to buy you can always say no thanks.
  • Profile picture of the author buffnstuff
    buffnstuff
    My take on this new sales funnel is just be upfront about your offers. Many WSO's that I have seen lately the product creator seems to want to hold you in suspense and not reveal their OTO's in their sales copy and then their sales funnel seems more like a trap and a maze.

    Once you purchase the original offer then here's something else to buy and if you don't then you will have to do all this work by hand but with the new wiz bang gizmo software it automates the process. So you don't want to do all the tedious work by hand do you? For just $X you buy the wiz bang gizmo software.

    Now you're thinking ok, I'm done with the OTO's, but wait, not so fast...The wiz bang gizmo software only does XYZ, if you don't want to manually have to do all that other stuff manually you need wiz bang gizmo on steroids. So now you get wiz bang gizmo on steroids because who wants to do all that other XYZ stuff manually. So you buy OTO2 for even more $$$.

    Now you're for sure your done and heading to checkout...But not so fast there Spanky... No, no, no...Now that you have the original product, plus upsell 1 and upsell 2, now if you want to know how to put all this stuff together and really make it work, you need our personal one on one Skype group membership for a monthly fee of $XX / month. Oh and don't forget to sign up for our webinar where we're going to try and sell some other crap loosly related to this offer so we can wring even more $$$ out of you under the ruse of an information packed webinar.

    We all have seen it and some of us have done it. Then people have buyers remorse after all that nonsense when they realize they just purchased a whole bunch of stuff that they have no clue how to use and then they see the overwhelming volume of PDF's and videos and all the FREE bonuses and their heads are spinning and they realize that they would have to lock themselves away for at least a month to comprehend all the stuff they just bought and get overwhelmed.

    Now you have the product creators and JV's wondering what went wrong and why is the refund rate so high? DUH!!! You just created your own mess.

    I say why be sneaky? Present the customer with all the facts in the sale page and then letting them decide if they need and want all the OTO's. I don't know about you guys, but when I've experienced crap like the above scenario I feel like I've just been had and when I read a lot of the WSO threads I'm not alone.

    I don't get the need to be sneaky with your sales funnel. Why not put it out there upfront? If they're good products then why wait and spring it on people during the buying process? I know I prefer to purchase the front end and choose the upsell products I see as necessary, rather than being made to feel like a sucker through all the upsells, down sells, cross sells etc. The maze and trap approach IMHO SUCKS!

    All of you who want to come back with these sales statistics telling me how much better this process works show me the stats on a more open process as I describe as well. My thoughts on statistics are, Figures don't lie, but liars can figure.
  • Profile picture of the author Rod Cortez
    Rod Cortez
    Originally Posted by TheNewGuy2010 View Post

    What I mean is, I've purchased ebooks about sales funnels and there is always a "cheat sheet" and there is a mind-map layout. It looks more like a maze.

    The process goes like this: If the they don't buy this, they'll get transferred to this, it they buy this, they'll get offered this, if they pass on that, they'll get a downsale on this, if the buy that, they'll get a offer for this.......and on and on.


    Is this called "Jump through hoops" marketing?


    I wonder if it's a ego trip more than anything. Or is it, everyone else is doing it, so it must be working, so I'll follow along and do it too, even if it doesn't make any sense.


    What are your thoughts?
    Of course some marketers are getting carried away with their sales funnels. There are some out there that implement a sales funnel and they don't really test their results. They see money come in and to them that means that it's working.

    And of course, some are not. The bottomline for me is, who really cares?

    While it's a good idea to watch what others are doing, what's more important is to test out your own sales funnels, obtain feedback from your customers, and focus on the overall customer experience and not just your conversions.

    Also bear in mind that some marketers out there do a lot of testing and they have very intriticate funnels for a reason. Those are usually very seamless because they know what they're doing. The ones that don't do any real testing is usually pretty obvious because they aren't seamless.

    I was in a sales funnel last week where the guy set up 6-7 different pop-ups and their stupid script asked me several times if I REALLY wanted to leave his website. I'm never doing business with that guy, unless he cleans up his act.

    I'd say in some cases it's not an ego trip, but more likely it's just bad marketing.

    RoD
  • Profile picture of the author Josh Monroe
    Josh Monroe
    In regards to most big product launches, the sales funnel has been tested, tweaked, optimised, tested, tweaked and then optimised again before the "general public" see it.

    Thus, when you purchase the product, the sales funnel you see is the one that converted the best. Basic marketing, if you have something that converts higher than the other, that contains several up-sells, downsells and exit scripts you'd be stupid not to use it, since the test results have already confirmed that it converts.

    In regards the upsell process, the up-sells (usually) are either a continuation of the main process, further work on the main process, or some sort of way to make your life easier by following the method you've just purchased such as software.

    Now, if we have two upsells priced at $197 and $147 with the original product costing $49, that gives us a total of $393.

    If instead of offering the upsells, we create a product that includes the main product and both upsells, we will then have to price it at $393 - which for many buyers is priced to high, not to mention if the buyer see's that price they will most likely run a mile (unless of course your selling via a webinar and so on).

    So to sum up - the upsells are added as a way of getting the main product out there to the public, with two upsells aimed at people who are either A) more serious or B) want results quicker/further training from the upsells.

    Plus as others have already said, upsells help create a higher EPC which is what the product creator wants so that he can get several JV partners and affiliates based on his high EPC. Who would want to work with someone who has a 0.50 EPC and so on? That means the sales funnel is not converting how it should be.

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