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Unread 26th January 2013, 05:14 PM   #1
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Default The Face of Cheap Labor on the Internet


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Unread 26th January 2013, 06:38 PM   #2
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Default Re: The Face of Cheap Labor on the Internet

That's one of the things I appreciate most about the internet, it brings a lot of the world closer together. Helping spread the wealth around is one of the best things we can do.

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Unread 26th January 2013, 06:56 PM   #3
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Default Re: The Face of Cheap Labor on the Internet

It is going to be interesting the reaction will be on a thread like this People will say that we will be take advantage of someone who is in a poor country. The counter argument to that would be the one which you raised about giving them a raise and a better living in their country. I am sure one or two will also claim slave labour and the saying "you get what you pay for" will also be said .
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Unread 26th January 2013, 09:30 PM   #4
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Default Re: The Face of Cheap Labor on the Internet

I'm only just getting started with IM (after a long break) but when I do get to the stage where I know enough to be able to out-source any work in the direction of these people, I won't let someone shame me into not helping them out of the rat race that they find themselves in! (and we think we have it bad!!!)

When we see how they have to live/survive we should appreciate what we have and if someone does make you feel guilty by playing the "slave labour" card..... if you're happy with the work that you get back, then give them a bonus!!! at least you will be sure that they recieve your donation and it's not been intercepted by some local gangster!
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Unread 26th January 2013, 10:23 PM   #5
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Default Re: The Face of Cheap Labor on the Internet

Using cheap labor is a very good idea. It creates wide range of opportunities for people around the world.
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Unread 26th January 2013, 10:26 PM   #6
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Default Re: The Face of Cheap Labor on the Internet

The large corporations moved in first. They established a structure that involved ownership of the equipment for manufacturing and control of job flow. Even small companies have trouble working with people like us in manufacturing because they don't own their own equipment. There is a stranglehold over the cheap labor.

But when people like us can train these people and get other people doing business with them too, a large transformation is going to take place and some of the big guys will go down. There is so much opportunity for us and these people. I plan to repost about this in a couple of years. Change is coming!

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Unread 26th January 2013, 10:26 PM   #7
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Default Re: The Face of Cheap Labor on the Internet

The large corporations moved in first. They established a structure that involved ownership of the equipment for manufacturing and control of job flow. Even small companies have trouble working with people like us in manufacturing because they don't own their own equipment. There is a stranglehold over the cheap labor.

But when people like us can train these people and get other people doing business with them too, a large transformation is going to take place and some of the big guys will go down. There is so much opportunity for us and these people. I plan to repost about this in a couple of years. Change is coming!

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Unread 26th January 2013, 11:11 PM   #8
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Default Re: The Face of Cheap Labor on the Internet

Great video, thanks for sharing! I definitely endorse hiring people like that because it creates a win-win situation. You get cheap labor, and at the same time you can provide someone with a job. If they're only charging you a dollar per hour or less, you could easily double their salary and make their life a lot easier, or pay them what they ask but give them a "huge" bonus at the end of a project. The only thing I worry about is finding someone who does quality work, but that's no different from anywhere else in the world. Once you've tested a few different workers with various projects and have found someone who does good work, it truly is a win-win relationship.
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Unread 26th January 2013, 11:23 PM   #9
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Default Re: The Face of Cheap Labor on the Internet

I know I am going to pick up some flack for saying this here, but I could not live with myself if I only payed someone 50 cents per hour for anything. I would think of myself as someone who exploits others, and I could not live with myself if that were the case. Big corporations have gone offshore, and nearly devastated this country, and I certainly don't want to mimic them. I'm not sure paying technical people a pittance is any better than what Walmart contractors pay them for the work they do in factories.

Many will think they are doing a good deed by paying a few cents or a few dollars an hour, but that is patronizing and a form of economic Imperialism. I don't think anyone who seeks to make money by exploiting desperate people should think they are helping. If you really want to help them, pay them the minimum wage in your state. It won't hurt you if you are operating a real business, and it would transform their lives in major ways.

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Unread 27th January 2013, 02:32 AM   #10
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Default Re: The Face of Cheap Labor on the Internet

Considering the World Bank and IMF peg the global poverty line at $2 a day, someone making $1 per hour is not doing too bad (in this context) especially if they work 8 hours a day. Global competition is good. I know it's good for me because it pushes me to keep my quality and productivity up. It also motivates me to continue learning. Remember: if you're not moving forward, you're dying. It's that simple.

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Unread 27th January 2013, 04:18 AM   #11
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Default Re: The Face of Cheap Labor on the Internet

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Originally Posted by donhx View Post
I know I am going to pick up some flack for saying this here, but I could not live with myself if I only payed someone 50 cents per hour for anything. I would think of myself as someone who exploits others, and I could not live with myself if that were the case. Big corporations have gone offshore, and nearly devastated this country, and I certainly don't want to mimic them.

*Agreed*

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Unread 27th January 2013, 04:33 AM   #12
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Default Re: The Face of Cheap Labor on the Internet

Cheap labor on the internet has become a standard reality because of the rise of the internet. It's a good solution for many industries, and it's a win-win situation for both sides. In saying this though, it is important that us as employers treat our third-world country employees with the same standards as we would our own.

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Unread 27th January 2013, 04:42 AM   #13
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Default Re: The Face of Cheap Labor on the Internet

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Originally Posted by daniellawseo View Post
Cheap labor on the internet has become a standard reality because of the rise of the internet. It's a good solution for many industries, and it's a win-win situation for both sides. In saying this though, it is important that us as employers treat our third-world country employees with the same standards as we would our own.
I can't agree with you more. It's all about arriving at a mutually beneficial and mutually profitable situation. As you said, standards are important and American/European/Canadian/Australian clients help boost emerging countries' English writing standards and competencies by providing important quality guidelines and strictly sticking to those guidelines.

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Unread 27th January 2013, 05:34 AM   #14
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Default Re: The Face of Cheap Labor on the Internet

Cheap labor online shows. You can pretend all you want that your 'VA' has great language skills, but they don't.

'Cheap labor' is a another common IM fantasy...like using Fiverr.com. You will purchase enough crap that your cost savings won't be worth it.

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Unread 27th January 2013, 05:53 AM   #15
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Default Re: The Face of Cheap Labor on the Internet

Quote:
Originally Posted by donhx View Post
I know I am going to pick up some flack for saying this here, but I could not live with myself if I only payed someone 50 cents per hour for anything. I would think of myself as someone who exploits others, and I could not live with myself if that were the case. Big corporations have gone offshore, and nearly devastated this country, and I certainly don't want to mimic them. I'm not sure paying technical people a pittance is any better than what Walmart contractors pay them for the work they do in factories.

Many will think they are doing a good deed by paying a few cents or a few dollars an hour, but that is patronizing and a form of economic Imperialism. I don't think anyone who seeks to make money by exploiting desperate people should think they are helping. If you really want to help them, pay them the minimum wage in your state. It won't hurt you if you are operating a real business, and it would transform their lives in major ways.

I don't think the point of the video is that you can get people to work for you for 50 cents an hour.

I think the point is that 50 cents an hour is a raise over what these people receive working in factories supporting large corporations.

You, as an employer, can reward your employees any way you want. Start at a higher rate, offer productivity bonuses, offer monthly incentives and bonuses, etc.

Also, remember the cost and standard of living is much different in many of these countries. While 50 cents an hour may be extreme, a few dollars an hour may be considered a high wage.

In the U.S., the minimum wage is only $7.25 and hour. That isn't enough to live on but I don't hear a big clamour to raise it...

And US states that, historically, have been favourable to workers rights are now enacting "right to work" legislation. Which is more "right to exploit" for the corporations than an effort to increase sustainable jobs for the community.
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Unread 27th January 2013, 06:13 AM   #16
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Default Re: The Face of Cheap Labor on the Internet

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Originally Posted by PerformanceMan View Post
Cheap labor online shows. You can pretend all you want that your 'VA' has great language skills, but they don't.

'Cheap labor' is a another common IM fantasy...like using Fiverr.com. You will purchase enough crap that your cost savings won't be worth it.
I tend to agree with this. If a VA was trained up and ready to go, I'd pay full rates.

All I have found are people / corps which promise that a VA can do all said marketing tasks, yet none have the initiative to self start. All need training etc.

Other problem is that many a unemployed and looking for some cash, so long term they are not really committed.

I know prefer a rolodex of specialist skill sets.

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Unread 27th January 2013, 06:56 AM   #17
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Default Re: The Face of Cheap Labor on the Internet

I have very good experience of using oDesk and some contractor from Bangladesh. They were cheap but the quality of work was great.

One of my contractor told me, there are many skilled and qualified worker in Bangladesh but they are facing massive unemployment problem and that's why they are outsourcing their skills in oDesk.
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Unread 27th January 2013, 08:00 AM   #18
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Default Re: The Face of Cheap Labor on the Internet

Odesk is one of the best ways to grow a business because of the low cost of hiring VA'S
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Unread 27th January 2013, 08:17 AM   #19
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Default Re: The Face of Cheap Labor on the Internet

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Originally Posted by donhx View Post
I know I am going to pick up some flack for saying this here, but I could not live with myself if I only payed someone 50 cents per hour for anything. I would think of myself as someone who exploits others, and I could not live with myself if that were the case. Big corporations have gone offshore, and nearly devastated this country, and I certainly don't want to mimic them. I'm not sure paying technical people a pittance is any better than what Walmart contractors pay them for the work they do in factories.

Many will think they are doing a good deed by paying a few cents or a few dollars an hour, but that is patronizing and a form of economic Imperialism. I don't think anyone who seeks to make money by exploiting desperate people should think they are helping. If you really want to help them, pay them the minimum wage in your state. It won't hurt you if you are operating a real business, and it would transform their lives in major ways.
*Agreed*

Don's hit the nail on the head.

I'm one of many people who have lost their full time, skilled job, because it was outsourced to India. The same thing is happening to people all over the country. That changes lives too.
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Unread 27th January 2013, 08:30 AM   #20
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Default Re: The Face of Cheap Labor on the Internet

The truth is there must be about a billion people on earth who can't even afford a computer, let alone the luxury of using it. It's an economic disparity brought about by this so-called "free market" economy. It's partly because the high cost of doing business domestically is so high (regulation, taxation, and inflation) that businesses are almost forced to use overseas labor.

At the same time, the market keeps prices at their right level all across the globe. It is, after all, a voluntary system; no one is holding a gun to their head to take this work at this price.

As an offliner, I prefer to use domestic labor, raise up the standard of living in my own nation whenever I can.

Just do it.
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Unread 27th January 2013, 09:03 AM   #21
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Default Re: The Face of Cheap Labor on the Internet

Taking advantages of differences in economic opportunity the world over is a real life example of the economics terminology known commonly as "guns for butter." If you can create butter very cheaply then you can trade your excess for commodities produced in other countries that are produced cheaper than they are in your country. When this happens both countries are able to improve their standards because they have access to a wider range of commodities.

Hiring in areas where labor is cheaper due to economic standards is not slave labor. Slave labor is hiring people and paying them either nothing or below the standard pay.

When these people are hired the both parties in the agreement win. The seller gets a product or service at a much lower cost. The person producing the product or service is able to earn more than they can in their local economy assuming they are able to even get a job. It is a classic WIN-WIN scenario.

If you find someone or multiple people that you hire that can produce product for you at a lower cost then it is our obligation to not take advantage of this. I have a stable of 5 writers on eLance that I use each and every month and they will bust their ass to complete work for me because I leave great reviews and will pay within 30 minutes of reading an email notice from eLance they have completed the work. Because I provide consistent work I have had some of them even offer to lower their rates say from $6 to $4.5 because they are afraid that I will find someone cheaper and that steady income from me is invaluable to them. In every case I have refused to lower my rates. These 5 are my go to guys and unless they take it upon themselves to start producing very low quality work I will continue to use them.

Another suggestion is that if the worker(s) are very loyal to you and work very hard for you then consider paying them a bonus. Almost all Americans are use to receiving a raise or bonus each year so why not do the same for your works. Starting this year I am taking 10% of my commissions I earn as a result of the products these people create each month and paying that back to them as a bonus.

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Unread 27th January 2013, 09:12 AM   #22
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Default Re: The Face of Cheap Labor on the Internet

It comes down to economies of scale.

My VA in the Phillipines was able to buy a house thanks to his employment with me = not bad

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Unread 27th January 2013, 11:04 AM   #23
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Default Re: The Face of Cheap Labor on the Internet

While this is a complex issue, one of the points I was trying to make with the video is large corporations have been doing this for years, and we are entering a time where people can work directly with each other. IT is one area, but there will be more opportunities as well.

Definitely lack of labor standards is why many jobs are sent overseas. While it is a slow process, I believe these standards will improve. There will be an equalization over time. We can help bring about this time sooner. We can benefit by being aware of the dynamic, not pretending it doesn't exist.

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Unread 27th January 2013, 11:23 AM   #24
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Default Re: The Face of Cheap Labor on the Internet

Quote:
it is important that us as employers treat our third-world country employees with the same standards as we would our own.
That sounds humanitarian and fair but I have to wonder....

Would you hire that same cheap worker if he weren't as cheap? Is the work and language such that you would pay for it if he charged $5-10 per hour?

Probably not. If you can find good work with cheap labor - that's fine. Hire them and pay them a bit more than they expect. If you justify the outsourcing by thinking it's "good enough"...it's probably not.


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Unread 27th January 2013, 11:40 AM   #25
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That sounds humanitarian and fair but I have to wonder....

Would you hire that same cheap worker if he weren't as cheap? Is the work and language such that you would pay for it if he charged $5-10 per hour?

Probably not. If you can find good work with cheap labor - that's fine. Hire them and pay them a bit more than they expect. If you justify the outsourcing by thinking it's "good enough"...it's probably not.
I did some experimentation in this area a while ago, and unfortunately I didn't have time to really train them. I do believe it can be done, and there are some great opportunities for people on both sides of the equation. However, there can be obstacles to overcome as often the value system and education are quite different.

In the case of one lady in the Philippines, I hired her a couple of years ago and she did very good. I paid $4/hour approximately. She has since moved to the United States and we still stay in touch.

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Unread 27th January 2013, 12:10 PM   #26
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Default Re: The Face of Cheap Labor on the Internet

thank eth of the lord eth...for the cheap labor. Folks in the US usually want to charge too much for IM services you can get for a fraction from india or other countries like that. Those guys overseas are grateful to make money doing services online..many of the people in those countries make like $2 a day.

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Unread 27th January 2013, 12:52 PM   #27
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Default Re: The Face of Cheap Labor on the Internet

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thank eth of the lord eth...for the cheap labor. Folks in the US usually want to charge too much for IM services you can get for a fraction from india or other countries like that. Those guys overseas are grateful to make money doing services online..many of the people in those countries make like $2 a day.

You say that:
Quote:
Folks in the US usually want to charge too much for IM services you can get for a fraction from india or other countries like that.
Then I ask you why is it then that folks from those other countries hire US folks to edit, rewrite and/or write content for them and pay US prices?

Just a point to ponder...

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Unread 27th January 2013, 01:00 PM   #28
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I am told that if you earn over $200 per month in Bangladesh then you can live a fairly ok life.

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Unread 27th January 2013, 01:06 PM   #29
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Default Re: The Face of Cheap Labor on the Internet

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I didn't have time to really train them. I do believe it can be done
That's a difficult argument to make. You didn't TAKE the time to train them so your results may have been lacking - but you think it "can be done". I agree it can be done but there is a trade-off.

You can pay less and spend more of your time training and overseeing or you can pay more and save time by hiring people who are experienced and already trained. It's a choice.

It always comes down to a combination of time/money. That's why the bulk of my writing income in the past three years has been from European based site owners who insist on EFL content and don't mind paying for it.

There's more than one way to approach outsourcing - and no one "right" way to do it.


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Unread 27th January 2013, 02:42 PM   #30
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Default Re: The Face of Cheap Labor on the Internet

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You say that:


Then I ask you why is it then that folks from those other countries hire US folks to edit, rewrite and/or write content for them and pay US prices?

Just a point to ponder...

Terra
Terra

you make a valid point!!!!

and this is because if your trying to sell to the U.S. market you need to write as if your from the U.S.

same thing with phone selling

there is a big difference with someone with an Indian accent trying to sell you something as opposed to an Indian customer service rep handling your account.

truth is with the state of the U.S. economy

you have alot more talent that work from home in many parts of the U.S. that can charge similar prices.

it's scary times indeed when all the tourists come to the U.S because their money goes farther here.


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Unread 27th January 2013, 02:47 PM   #31
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thank eth of the lord eth...for the cheap labor. Folks in the US usually want to charge too much for IM services you can get for a fraction from india or other countries like that. Those guys overseas are grateful to make money doing services online..many of the people in those countries make like $2 a day.
And that is PRECISELY the problem (the bolded part).

I love dvduval's OP and the video, and I love that he gets it about the multinational corporaations that are so exploitative, AND that we can band together and help break their grip on the poor in third-world countries, I truly do.

BUT the problem is that it's not that the contractors in the U.S. "charge too much," it's that the impoverished, exploited workers in third world countries charge too little. No, they don't charge too little for THEIR local situation (their economy and cost of living), but we workers in the U.S. can't compete because our cost of living is so very much, much higher. BUT, because having NO job is worse than having a poorly paying job, wages here in the U.S. are plummeting in the face of all this wonderful "outsourcing" and globalization. That brings our standard of living down quite a bit, but makes employers really, really happy. They get more profits.

Now, while you may say "more profits = good! They can create more jobs."

But what kind of jobs -- more exploitative jobs that leave their employees impoverished?

To continue picking on Wal-Mart, did you know:
6 Members of Wal-Mart Family Have More Money than Poorest 90 Million Americans

Combine that fact with the fact that each Walmart store requires $420,000 in food stamps for its workers ($2.66 BILLION annually) and other taxpayer assistance. You, the taxpayer, are subsidizing Walmart and/or all the people who shop there and "benefit" from low prices. Is that what you intend?? (Hmmm, that's a far better business model than most of ours: let the government to help compensate your employees for you.)

Similarly, when outsourcing to third-world countries at ridiculously low wages, our own economy is still in the doldrums,there are still millions of good, hardworking people who need jobs -- and despite the rhetoric, jobs DON'T come from tax breaks, they come from consumer demand and consumers don't got much demands when they don't got no money.

Here's what US Corporations have been doing job-wise over the last two + decades:

Source: Forbes

And many if not all of these corporations have been getting tax breaks to do that! Really.

Every single person who outsources is supporting the further erosion of our own economy because you are supporting the further erosion of our own wages. I'm not saying don't do it because, as dvduval points out, maybe we can help loosen the exploitative grip by corporations, though I believe probably a better idea, or let's say another idea we ought to simultaneously pursue is the idea of global unions. (And before anyone jumps on any anti-union tirade or rant, anyone who has ever worked for a paycheck in the U.S. has benefitted from unions, whether they were members or not -- 5 day work week, 8 hour days, paid holidays and vacations and sick leave -- all of which are being eroded because unions have lost so much ground.)

But just understand what you're doing, what impact you're having, the downsides with the upsides and do it consciously.
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Unread 27th January 2013, 03:20 PM   #32
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Default Re: The Face of Cheap Labor on the Internet

If you hire people overseas even for $0.5, you are doing great service to them (and in longer term disservice to your own country). Western countries--that is not only the US, but Europe also--should have learnt their lesson already with cheap Chinese factory labour taking away jobs from these countries. For a while it was so good to buy cheap products, but with no local jobs soon there is (was..) no money even to meet the cheap prices. The Chinese are now gradually developing their own consumer market, and step by step are the Western consumers turned off of the chain. China is not that cheap workforce any more: 1/5 of world's luxury products are sold there. They have now over one million people who own million dollars or more! It all started with offering cheap labour.

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Unread 27th January 2013, 04:49 PM   #33
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Default Re: The Face of Cheap Labor on the Internet

I believe that all people should be hired based on their skills, not pity.

I'm live in America and there are people right here in the U.S. who are hungry, hurting and willing to work too. Many people need help all across the Globe. But driving markets down with lowball rates are robbing qualified people who have honed their skills for years out of a chance to compete. How is that fair? How can US and other modern countries compete with someone in a third world country who is willing to work for .50 per hour? They can't.

So I see that the major problem lies in all these "bidding" sites. And to be fair to all people being that the Internet is a Global marketplace, I think these freelance sites should require all workers to at least get a set minimum rate that is a fair, relative and customary average of the nature of the work that is to be done. This will cut out favoring one group of people over another, because now all jobs will be won based on true skill & qualifications rather than pity or lowball rates. If this is done I'll bet money that it will upgrade the quality of the ENTIRE Internet because now everyone will be forced to step up their game!
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Unread 27th January 2013, 08:11 PM   #34
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Default Re: The Face of Cheap Labor on the Internet

In the case of ultra cheap labor in the factory setting, it is important to recognize that:
1. Americans are buying the stuff they make
2. Corporations are employing this labor
3. Environmental, safety and work standards are being ignored.

In the case of hiring IT workers overseas, really only #1 is true, unless #3 is by choice. People claim there are too many government regulations, but I don't see them wishing they could live in a country where corporations are thriving on cheap labor.

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Unread 27th January 2013, 08:21 PM   #35
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Default Re: The Face of Cheap Labor on the Internet

And great post chi-whiz.

Indeed a leading reason America achieved greatness was because our workers were and still are among the most productive in the world. They are productive because they have access to healthcare, get time to rest, receive a good education, and have money allotted for retirement.

And the big one... they make enough money to purchase the products they manufacture. GM workers so often buy GM cars, etc. Can workers who make the iphone afford one for themselves? NO!

Higher wages means better paying jobs, movement of money, and a higher standard of living. When money is controlled by investors, factory owners and CEOs then of course they want less regulation, lower prices and lower wages.

But you and I and the people on the video want higher wages so we can afford to buy those things we desire in our lives. Higher wages will lead to higher prices, and higher prices will lead to higher wages. It is a "success spiral". Lower wages lead to lower prices which lead to still lower wages. That is a "deflation spiral".

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Unread 27th January 2013, 11:30 PM   #36
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Default Re: The Face of Cheap Labor on the Internet

My ex-father-in-law worked for GM for a long time. Even after he retired he always bought a new GM vehicle every other year. Loyalty? Nope. Lots of money? Nope. Huge discounts to employees and retirees was the reason I don't know if it's still done - but it was a sweet deal for him.


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Unread 28th January 2013, 12:12 PM   #37
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Default Re: The Face of Cheap Labor on the Internet

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kay King View Post
My ex-father-in-law worked for GM for a long time. Even after he retired he always bought a new GM vehicle every other year. Loyalty? Nope. Lots of money? Nope. Huge discounts to employees and retirees was the reason I don't know if it's still done - but it was a sweet deal for him.
GM used to be the top employer in the United States, and the average salary was around $25/hour. Now it is Walmart and the average salary is more like $10/hour. It shows you how things have changed.

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Unread 30th January 2013, 11:54 AM   #38
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Default Re: The Face of Cheap Labor on the Internet

If everyone would outsource ... we would all be without job.

If you buy a Levis, do you think it was manufactured in your country?

It was done for about 3-4 USD... but YOU... you pay maybe 70?

That way the big companies can make more money...

And a country like yours will get more people without job.

A vicious circle...

I am very good at HTML/CSS but who cares about my knowledge when you are outsourcing?

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Unread 31st January 2013, 04:55 AM   #39
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Default Re: The Face of Cheap Labor on the Internet

Outsourcing does have its pros and cons that are very visible in the short term. But I believe, based on my experience as a VA and observing the global market these past few years, that outsourcing could be a win-win solution for both the American and 3rd world economies. And this is why I think this scenario is possible.

The economies of these 3rd world countries that you outsource to are rising. New markets are opening for these countries, online and offline. We see how American and European businesses are going into Asia because finally these countries have the purchasing power needed to keep businesses afloat. Sure, China produces cheap products but China is now also a major buyer of luxury products. The Philippine economy is the 2nd largest growing economy in Asia today. This became possible partly through outsourcing. By pouring money into the developing countries, there's now a bigger market that the global economy can do business in.

Bigger markets means more business for everyone. And more businesses means more jobs, better jobs for all. Not just in the developing countries but all over the world. What we all need to do is to learn how to adapt. We have to continue moving forward, always take the time to learn new skills, hone your expertise. Experience, knowledge and skills are never wasted, they just need to be re-tooled and re-marketed for the new world economy.

Like my mother always told me, "Don't wait for opportunities to come to you, go chase down an opportunity or make new ones for yourself!"

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Unread 31st January 2013, 12:55 PM   #40
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Default Re: The Face of Cheap Labor on the Internet

Sorry but big companies go into asia/3rd world countries only to save production costs.

Do you think that e.g. Armani sells their stuff in e.g. China for a lower price? No, ofcourse not... but it is still produced in 3rd world countries.

What happens in Europe/America when big companies move their productions to 3rd world/asia?

Thousands of people are losing their jobs...

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Unread 31st January 2013, 03:20 PM   #41
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Default Re: The Face of Cheap Labor on the Internet

Quote:
Originally Posted by butters View Post
It is going to be interesting the reaction will be on a thread like this People will say that we will be take advantage of someone who is in a poor country. The counter argument to that would be the one which you raised about giving them a raise and a better living in their country. I am sure one or two will also claim slave labour and the saying "you get what you pay for" will also be said .
You just gave me an excellent business idea! Thank you!

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Unread 22nd February 2013, 02:54 PM   #42
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Default Re: The Face of Cheap Labor on the Internet

Research shows that people are happiest when they get paid the least amount that they would find acceptable for a task. The problem with huge corporations is that they have the ability to bend nations backwards in their entirety. Paying someone $1.25 an hour may make you feel bad, but everything is understood in comparison. I cannot singlehandedly stop Walmart from operating in X Y Z countries, but I can single-handedly make it easy for someone to make a little bit more for a little less strenuous work.

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Unread 22nd February 2013, 03:11 PM   #43
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Default Re: The Face of Cheap Labor on the Internet

I've used odesk before, and don't get it twisted, when you are paying someone 2-3/hour to build backlinks, there is a good chance you are paying a software to do it.

The cost of living is different over there, and many of them make 4-$5 a day, so 2-$3 an hour is a big improvement in their lives. I can understand some may feel guilty but at the same time you never know what is behind the product you buy at Walmart or any retailer for that matter. Everytime you put a piece of tomatoe in your mouth, their is a great chance someone was paid 4-$5 a day to pick it.

I have talked to people from odesk and they are happy with what they do, and love it. These people come online to make money to better their living conditions, and if you don't hire them then someone will pay them $4 a day to work 16 hours on the rice fields so you can have food on your table.

When you outsource to some of these countries, you are doing a good service by hiring them, because there are a couple billion more people who could use the help, and millions that will die of hunger, because they have no way to make money. We live in a world where only a handful of people make most of the money, and the rest of us have to work our buts off just to maintain.

Would I work for 2-$3 here in the U.S? of course not, but I don't have $20/monthly gas,electric bills, or a $100 mortgage. What if I were in their situation, would I work for 2-$3 an hour? you bet your ass I would, I grew up poor so I know what it is like.

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Unread 22nd February 2013, 03:43 PM   #44
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Default Re: The Face of Cheap Labor on the Internet

Each country has their own economic standard. What a person in one country may consider a wage that puts them in the high earning bracket for their area, might not even rank as logical LOW pay in other places. In the Philippines 2 bucks an hour can give someone a stable life. In the US, it won't even feed them decently.

If people are willing to work for peanuts, there's nothing we can do about it and there will always be someone who will take advantage of that. There will always be businesses that are willing to spring some good bucks for real quality, too. It's up to the worker to learn to do what they do with excellence, and to require a wage that reflects their expertise. It's up to a company to know if they are paying a slave wage, that the quality they get is well likely to be reflected in like.

The only thing that is needed to combat being paid like a slave is to be able to produce quality that justifies asking for a great price. You will always see differences in that price determined by the amount it takes to live well in the area the worker lives. I'm not sure why this is so confusing or upsetting to people. If someone is working for what, in their country, qualifies as a slave wage - it might mean they haven't achieved the excellence yet to demand a better price. I've had job interviews in the real world that the company has offered an absolutely outrageously insulting wages for work that requires intensive skills. My answer was always just to ask if they are joking - if not, I got up, smiled, and told them "you hope your competition isn't hiring right now" as I walked out the door.

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Unread 22nd February 2013, 03:58 PM   #45
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Default Re: The Face of Cheap Labor on the Internet

Quote:
Originally Posted by PerformanceMan View Post
Cheap labor online shows. You can pretend all you want that your 'VA' has great language skills, but they don't.

'Cheap labor' is a another common IM fantasy...like using Fiverr.com. You will purchase enough crap that your cost savings won't be worth it.
It certainly matters what you're hiring them to do. I have a VA that does great graphics design and another that is an expert web developer. It doesn't show. They create the content that I hire them to make.
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Unread 22nd February 2013, 04:05 PM   #46
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Default Re: The Face of Cheap Labor on the Internet

What is considered in the Western world as cheap labor, may be feeding an entire family in another country. So i consider it as a noble thing to hire somebody (even considered cheap) if you know upfront it will make the life of 10 other people better.

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Unread 22nd February 2013, 04:07 PM   #47
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Default Re: The Face of Cheap Labor on the Internet

oDesk is perfect for freelancing. You could run a one-man multi thousand dollar business doing a simple service based of outsourcing to cheap PA/VA's, Coders, Programmers, and what not from oDesk !
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Unread 22nd February 2013, 04:23 PM   #48
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Default Re: The Face of Cheap Labor on the Internet

I know a guy who as able to only make 30 dollars for an entire year, there just wasn't enough work in the village. He wasn't able to pay a fine he got and told the judge to arrest him he is broke the judge let him go. Lots of people are struggling around the world it's just that we are not aware of how poor it is for billions of people. If someone wants to work for 50 cents and hour from a computer the I'm all for it, once they find something better they will move up and often there isn't anything better.
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Unread 22nd February 2013, 04:33 PM   #49
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Default Re: The Face of Cheap Labor on the Internet

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gmount View Post
..... if you're happy with the work that you get back, then give them a bonus!!! at least you will be sure that they recieve your donation and it's not been intercepted by some local gangster!
I totally agree with this viewpoint, it will make the guy feel admired and help you get rid of the "guilt" feeling, if you've got any!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex Greene View Post
Using cheap labor is a very good idea. It creates wide range of opportunities for people around the world.
Partly agreed, but bear in mind, focus of humanity should be towards creating equal and fair opportunities.
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Unread 22nd February 2013, 04:42 PM   #50
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Default This is completely ENORMOUSLY misleading

Hi,

To imply that people who employ outsourcers are doing others
a disservice is flat out misleading and I believe entirely wrong.

I say this as someone who has been involved with several
girlfriends, one who was from Indonesia and one from the
Philippines.

And also having employed a Filipina for over 3 years.

It's enormously difficult in the Philippines, especially if you're
over age 30 to get a job that pays hardly anything. There are
factory jobs and not a lot else. It does depend on college, etc.

But the biggest export from the Philippines is labor. And guess
where they work?

A whole CRAPLOAD work in countries where they are in more
or less SLAVERY. 12 million people in the world are in REAL
slavery.

I happen to know because it happened to my girlfriend once
who took a domestic housekeeping job in Syria (where 17,000
Filipinos work) for $200 a day.

Except she had a device on her and couldn't leave the house and
had to eat their food which she couldn't stomach.

Basically, it was slavery. She was forced to sign a contract
in Arabic.

This happens in many other countries and not just Syria.

It took me over 6 months and an enormous amount of effort
to get her out of that situation not to mention time, not to
mention getting on a radar of the U.S. Gov't (I think) because
I had to send $ to the Philippines embassy for her plane ticket
out.

Now, she can't get a job in the Philippines because she is
age 40 and never finished college. If she could, it would pay
maybe $50 a month. She did take one sales job and that's
about what it paid. And it wasn't a good job.

My Fililipina gets paid VERY well by Philippines standards,
not by U.S. standards.

But she makes more than I'm guessing 90% of Philippines
workers.

I could have a VERY long line of Filipinas who would love
to have her job.

Most people don't understand that in countries like these
youth tends to be VERY highly valued at jobs. And if you
aren't young, man it is REALLY difficult.

Ask a girl in Thailand who is age 40 or over what it's like
to try to get a job there.

I had a friend I met there on a holiday once who worked
12 hours a day ironing clothes for under $100 a month.

She was the sweetest girl in the world but had no job
skills.

Now, I am NOT for virtual sweatshops. But there is a
WHOLE ENTIRE other world of outsourcing.

For example, Joel Peterson has an office he opened in
the Philippines (kinda like Perry Belcher used to have).
The people are paid a good wage by Philippines standards.
And they have a nice, comfortable office with desks to
work out of.

It's a nice office.

I think it''s a MASSIVE DISSERVICE to go on this whole
morale outrage about outscoucing.

Have you BEEN to these countries?

Have you hired there?

I've been to Thailand. I've been to the Philippines.

Do you understand what WAGES are like? How much
a $300 to $500 a month job can mean, especially if it's an
8 or so hour job from the comfort of home on a computer?

The average FAMILY in Makati, Philippines earns $300 a
month for the whole family. Or maybe it's $250. I don't
remember off the top of my head.

But that's for the whole family income.

These people not only need theses jobs they are grateful
for them.

What I'm saying is it's wrong to paint a whole entire industry
with one brush that is innacurate coloring of what's going on
at many levels.

Marlon

PS: In the Philippines, you're probably SAVING that person
from having to take a job overseas and having a real chance of
being in SLAVERY.

And I don't mean the kind where you got a small desk.

I mean, they hook a monitor up to you and you can't go anywhere.
You can't stop to eat.

You're treated like you have no rights.

My friend still has problems in her hands and back just from being
there 6 months.

One girl she met when she escaped to the Embassy jumped out
a window up a story or two to escape and really injured herself.

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