Good Gosh, Will You Please Hire an Attorney

11 years ago

I agree, you should never buy anything big without an attorney being present to look over the terms, not all forms fit all, which free forms tend to be..

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jgant

11 years ago

I agree ... and don't just hire any local attorney. You need one who actually has experience in cyber deals. Few lawyers do, but they are out there and they are the ones you need to hire, even if they aren't located locally to you.

Most lawyers focus in different legal areas, so you need one who has experience in cyber transactions.

I'm a lawyer (non-practicing) and don't have experience in these types of transactions ... I just know that not all lawyers know about these types of deals (in fact very few do).

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Resale Rights Ninja

11 years ago

Well if lawyers were not such over paid greedy *******s then people would hire them more often. Can't blame people for going the do it yourself route. 1/2 the time you can do the job yourself better than a lawyer can. I guess the other 1/2 of the time you get sued...

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J Bold

11 years ago

Originally Posted by Resale Rights Ninja

Well if lawyers were not such over paid greedy *******s then people would hire them more often. Can't blame people for going the do it yourself route. 1/2 the time you can do the job yourself better than a lawyer can. I guess the other 1/2 of the time you get sued...

The OP was talking about a million dollar loss.

That indicates to me that he possibly laid down $1 million for the business?

Not sure as it wasn't clear.

But if you can afford that much to buy a business, surely you can budget a few thousand to get a lawyer to help you out.

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seasoned

11 years ago

Originally Posted by J Bold

The OP was talking about a million dollar loss.

That indicates to me that he possibly laid down $1 million for the business?

Not sure as it wasn't clear.

But if you can afford that much to buy a business, surely you can budget a few thousand to get a lawyer to help you out.

SOME people buy businesses that have impending legal problems, or are not legal in their jurisdiction, so you could pay thousands and end up with FAR more debt.

Steve

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fluffythewondercat

11 years ago

Originally Posted by Resale Rights Ninja

Well if lawyers were not such over paid greedy *******s then people would hire them more often. Can't blame people for going the do it yourself route. 1/2 the time you can do the job yourself better than a lawyer can. I guess the other 1/2 of the time you get sued...

Shrug. Whatever.

I have both a CPA and an attorney. Only a fool takes his own legal or tax advice.

fLufF
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PerformanceMan 11 years ago

Originally Posted by fluffythewondercat

Shrug. Whatever.

I have both a CPA and an attorney. Only a fool takes his own legal or tax advice.

fLufF
--

I have both two and have for years. I don't do anything without the advice of the attorney and the accountant.
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jgant

11 years ago

Originally Posted by Resale Rights Ninja

Well if lawyers were not such over paid greedy *******s then people would hire them more often. Can't blame people for going the do it yourself route. 1/2 the time you can do the job yourself better than a lawyer can. I guess the other 1/2 of the time you get sued...

It's a cost benefit analysis. You won't necessarily hire a lawyer if legal fees are more than the potential loss. However, if the transaction is large, legal fees amount to a small cost. You must also keep in mind any potential losses, such as a lawsuit, which can be very expensive.

I used to be a trial lawyer and I can tell you the cost to hire a lawyer to defend or advance a lawsuit is almost always far more costly than hiring a lawyer to handle the initial transaction.

Moreover, lawyers have negligence insurance so if they make a mistake, you have recourse. You won't always prove a lawyer was negligent, but it happens.

Lawyers charge less than many "MMO consultants" and "MMO coaches", but I appreciate that the prospect of making tons of money is perceived as far more valuable than the investing in preventing a loss.

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jasonl70

11 years ago

Originally Posted by Resale Rights Ninja

Well if lawyers were not such over paid greedy *******s then people would hire them more often. Can't blame people for going the do it yourself route. 1/2 the time you can do the job yourself better than a lawyer can. I guess the other 1/2 of the time you get sued...

a person who acts as his own lawyer has an idiot for a client..
Even lawyers hire other lawyers!

And you seriously are going to cry about greedy/over paid? really? do you not understand capitalism? Do you understand marketing? market pricing? Besides, it's not like they will be flooded with business if they cut their fee's in half.. as many struggling lawyers will tell you, it just doesn't work that way.

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Maui Joe

11 years ago

currently in the middle of a large transfer sans a lawyer

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Jack Gordon

11 years ago

For some people, it takes the pain of getting screwed on a deal to understand this.

People who doubt the value of a lawyer on the front end of a deal will eventually pay much more on the back end of a deal gone bad.

And that is ok. Business lawyers need a combination of advisory work and litigation work to buy those yachts and mansions.

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ChrisMooreLive

11 years ago

Attorneys are a must. People forget they are buying a business and a legal liability. You can and most times will become responsible for civil penalties.

You may not go to jail for a scam run by a former owner, but what you just bought may be ordered sold by the court to pay back former customers. Bad debt - employee liability, etc. may all transfer to you with the business.

I was once part of team that put together the financial analysis for a company about to be sold. It was making money and the owner was pretty much absent from the day to day of the business. He was making a descent living coming in one day a week, signing check and overseeing a few decisions. Later on when I go paid by the consulting firm I was a subcontractor for paid me, the lead consultant told me he asked the guy why he was selling such a cash flowing profitable business. The owner said it looked like they were about to get hit by a class actoin lawsuit on a former product that had caused a few accidents and possible fatalities. The business discovered their testing was flawed and he wanted to get as much money out of the business before the suit became public.

Contract attorneys are always cheaper than litigation attorneys.

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Steve Wells

11 years ago

Never thought I would see the day where lawyers are getting defended publicly on an open forum.

No offence meant to any lawyers on this thread, just thought it was kinda funny to see people stand up and defend lawyers, when normally it is completely the other way around.

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Rbtmarshall

11 years ago

when your talking million dollars in transactions, that kind of person should definitely hire a lawyer for any questions they have to protect their liability. The costs associated are a non-issue.

The common warrior forum members are not in a position to hire a lawyer for a 200-500/hour Q&A session.

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asiriusthoth

11 years ago

I definitely cannot disagree with that. We've had legal counsel for our business since day one. Contracts, agreements, disputes; they are all bound to happen in a successful business. Especially when purchasing another business, you definitely need representation.

Originally Posted by kindsvater

But for goodness sake, don't assume what you find in some free legal form is correct, or that it is appropriate to use for your specific situation.

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AprilCT 11 years ago

The high cost of legal help is one reason why people try to do without hiring a lawyer. It's also why some companies will hire a lawyer as part of the management staff instead of paying higher hourly rates. They aren't doing just legal-related work.

Yes, lawyers are necessary, it's just unfortunate that so few can afford them. I do agree with the OP that there are a lot of things you should not handle yourself. What can seem straightforward is very often not that way and full of financial problems instead.
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- Tina Golden 11 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by AprilCT
  
  The high cost of legal help is one reason why people try to do without hiring a lawyer.
  
  If you're doing deals large enough to necessitate a lawyer but don't hire one due to the expense, then I would say you're in over your head. People shouldn't buy a business or get involved in something that they can't afford to do right.
  
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  Kay King 11 years ago
  
  It's not "defending lawyers" - it's defending yourself.
  
  Can't blame people for going the do it yourself route. 1/2 the time you can do the job yourself better than a lawyer can.
  
  Sure you can - right up until you become the person Brian is talking about who goes to the lawyer hoping someone can FIX the mistake he made. If you sign a bad contract - you're stuck with what you agreed to.
  
  It doesn't cost that much for an hour of legal advice - and that hour could save your butt.
  
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ExquisiteMedia

11 years ago

Legal advice is priceless in this business and it can't afford to be overlooked.

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EmilyAbbott

Banned 11 years ago

Wow!
I think one must be either crazy or stupid to work with that kind of money and not make sure everything is perfectly legal. Spend some on professional advice, or you risk loosing it all!

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seasoned

11 years ago

Originally Posted by kindsvater

Websites are flipped and online businesses are bought every day. My office was just contacted by someone who bought a business, used some boilerplate form, did not have an attorney look over it, and now is needing an attorney to try and fix the repercussions while potentially facing a million dollar loss.

A million dollars.

Did they ACTUALLY pay over a million dollars for the business? Can you give us a hint of what was wrong?

I CAN add to what you said here, and even put in a pitch for MY industry! You should ALSO have a knowledgeable and capable web/program designer(Meaning able to be a DBA and programmer) ALSO! WHY?

Well, my step mother bought a business. It required some particular data. Think of it THIS way! SHE thought she bought the BUSINESS!!!!!! What she GOT was the FRONT END of the business. That means she gets the money, and the customers, but ALSO the obligations.

Sounds NICE, HUH? Well, the MAIN obligation was a REPORT, and that required that DATA! The BACK end of the business! She found out that she didn't have the info to do that, asked the seller, and the seller said they would not support it.

Realizing that this was a DISASTER, my father got into the picture, and they understood that they could be financially obliterated by a lawsuit. They gave my step mother SOME of the info. My father, knowing better, checked it out and found that key parts were missing.

The end result? The seller promised to handle at least one year, which meant that my step mother had about a year to find a way to do it HERSELF. originally she had only 1-2 months before it was required by federal law.

Had they not had a capable person there, they could have been SUED by all the new customers. NOT what they wanted.

I have seen things sold here that were tied into other systems, etc... If you don't know EXACTLY what you are getting, you may regret it.

Steve

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Good Gosh, Will You Please Hire an Attorney

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