How To Kill Your Reputation In TWO Forums In 3 Easy Steps!!!

[Charles Washington]

Originally Posted by momkat

Can we get the deleted WSO undeleted? Having it gone leaves those who might be vulnerable to purchasing other things from himm in the future not to be able to do any due diligence research.

Just read post number 44 in this thread...it isnt really deleted

[Kay King]

No, you can't get it "unbanned". He's been banned here totally - you won't see any more things for sale from him under that name, at least. At mentioned above, the deleted WSO can still be viewed at warriorplus.com

It's another reminder to take time to check on people you are buying from. At the very LEAST, check comments in their previous WSO's.

[Black Hat Cat]

Originally Posted by Melody

No, that's against WF policy - I posted because I really wanted to make the point that this was very shortsighted to do what he did - and - silly me! - I was kind of hoping he would step up and make it right, as Rebecca suggested.

Melody

And that's why his reputation likely hasn't been harmed nearly as much as you think. I guarantee you 90% of Warriors here have no idea who or what you're talking about.

Edit:

Seeing now that he was banned. That will do it, lol. Here at least. Good.

[Charles Washington]

Originally Posted by blackhatcat

And that's why his reputation likely hasn't been harmed nearly as much as you think. I guarantee you 90% of Warriors here have no idea who or what you're talking about.

Edit:

Seeing now that he was banned. That will do it, lol. Here at least. Good.

On that note, he had no infractions or anything to lead people to believe he was unscrupulous.

[stevenh512]

Originally Posted by John Rowe

If ******** is now banned then is mentioning his username, from back when he was a Warrior, still a violation of rule #1?

Just askin'.

I think it is, since rule #1 doesn't apply "only" to Warriors. The point of rule #1 is that if you have a problem with someone, this isn't the place to make it public. It may be inconvenient at times, but it protects the integrity of the forum and keeps Allen out of trouble.

[Black Hat Cat]

Originally Posted by R Hagel

(Also, it helps protect Allen from lawsuits and such when there aren't any names floating around on his forum -- that's another reason Rule #1 exists.)

Cheers,
Becky

That's a bogus reason. He's more likely to get sued over some of the crap coming out of the WSO section.

[stevenh512]

blackhatcat, I don't know if I'd go as far as calling it a "bogus reason" (I'm sure it does protect him from slander and libel lawsuits), but you do make a pretty good point.. lol

[Hililuud]

Originally Posted by Melody

Sometimes you really have to wonder if people really realize just how 'small' the internet is - especially in the IM space......obviously, I cannot name the person or the WSO but here is what is going on:

1) Warrior A (with significant post count - someone "we can trust"!) launches WSO with great sales letter - but a sharp-eyed Warrior notes that those income bars on the Clickbank screen shot don't match up - yup - income has been falsified!

2) Another sharp eyed Warrior spots the site/product from above WSO being sold in the Marketplace at another well known forum......

3) Warriors post here and at the other Marketplace - PMs Warrior A at both locations. Posts and PMs are ignored....WSO is DELETED by Warrior A....posts at Marketplace DELETED by Warrior A.....there goes the possibility that 'something happened' and Warrior A just hasn't had time to come back and respond and clear up the mess.....he is NOT lying in a ditch somewhere.

I have received PMs that there were 'issues' with his last WSO - and refund requests were ignored then, just as now.

And here is the point I want to make: I am 54 years old. I have been in sales since I was 16 years old - started out as the sales manager for my high school newsletter. I have been in a very tough competitive niche - payment processing - for more than 20 years, and I am EXTREMELY successful. I made the transition in the industry from offline to online and not many of my generation were able to do that.

I have clients that have been with me for more than 15 years and in this business - that just doesn't happen. I have had processors go out of business overnight, owing clients HUGE amounts of money - but I was able to salvage my relationships with my clients, in spite of some very ugly situations, because I always try my best to do the right thing for my clients. ALWAYS!

I have always believed that I really have only ONE product - my personal integrity. Everything else, as far as I am concerned, is an 'add-on'. My clients know this. They know that I put their well being at the top of my priority list, and in turn - my business is well cared for as well.

The world is a very small place these days. I have clients in virtually every major city in the world - and your reputation follows you everywhere. Yesterday, for example, a new client called from Australia - referred by a client from South Africa that he met at a conference in Amsterdam......now THAT is a global reach, folks.

Deleting a few posts, getting rid of a WSO means nothing. It's still out there somewhere - waiting to pop up when you least expect it.

Once you lose your integrity - you lose everything. That $20 you made today is nothing compared to the time it takes to rebuild your reputation - if you ever can.

I don't know what is going on in this person's life - perhaps something so desperate that he has had to resort to such measures, but to me - this is simply sad. Yes, I know it's dishonest, but it's also heartbreaking to see someone that apparently has some good knowledge (based on past posts, thanks you's etc) throw it all away for a few hundred or even a few thousand dollars - small change compared to the long-term value of a good reputation.

My honest hope is that he will see this post - and make an attempt to get back on the right path again.

Melody

Dude, it is hard for someone who is desperate for money to even care about a reputation. Nobody ever buys from a newbe, so at some point people decide to fake it until they make it.

These are the results you get.

[Melody]

Originally Posted by blackhatcat

And that's why his reputation likely hasn't been harmed nearly as much as you think. I guarantee you 90% of Warriors here have no idea who or what you're talking about.

Edit:

Seeing now that he was banned. That will do it, lol. Here at least. Good.

True to some extent - but there are good people that make a full time living here through WSOs, and now he will not be one of them. Both the internet and the universe have a way of bringing stuff back on you at the strangest times......in fact, I had no idea who this person was in other forums since this is the only place I really spend any time (or money) at....but I can tell you that no less than a dozen people know this person by other names on other forums.....

So, yes, it will damage this person beyond the WF......

Melody

[Melody]

Originally Posted by Hililuud

Dude, it is hard for someone who is desperate for money to even care about a reputation. Nobody ever buys from a newbe, so at some point people decide to fake it until they make it.

These are the results you get.

To be honest - I assumed that this was perhaps what happened - some serious financial situation that caused him to make a rash, and not wise decision to do what he did. I contacted him privately - several times - here and at the other forum. He was given the opportunity to simply 'man up', admit it was a mistake and apologize, and he did something entirely different.

It's done, it's over - he's gone for now.

Melody

[ciked]

thanks for pointing out how important a good reputation is to have. i too have been ripped off by a member who has built a great reputation here. The problem is i paid him $750 for a product that i received half finished and unusable. i bought the product in november 08 and he is still "revising" it. i am hoping he is not screwing me over but after a year I think it will just have to be a lesson learned. How would i be able to warn other members before he cons them too?

[Ross Dalangin]

I believe Bryan...Melody, you don't look like 54. Please check your birth certificate because you maybe born between 1964 and 1967.

Ross

Originally Posted by Bryan Kumar

Hmm...I'm not sure if I believe you, Melody.
You don't look anywhere near 54.
Maybe 44...

[mschmalenbach]

Originally Posted by Melody

it's amazing how the wrinkles don't show when you reduce those photos!!!

Mel

My wife wondered if she shrunk her head, maybe her wrinkles wouldn't show either...!!

Tomorrow she'll be ****** (censored by 'she who must be obeyed'!) and she looks way younger - I told her she doesn't need to shrink her head - she looks just fab.

Now, maybe I need to shrink MY picture!! Though not sure that'll make the grey hair go away!!

Melody - thanks for this posting - good lessons for new and experienced alike to take on board.

Cheers

Martin

[Randy Bheites]

Well, that's nice that everyone is happy that this person has been banned, but frankly, this thread was a complete waste of my time, because:

a) I have no idea who you are talking about
b) I have no clue what the offending product was
c) because of a) & b) above, I cannot protect myself from the poster or the product
d) this clown can and probably will come right back under a new name and do it again.

If the offense is so grevious that it deserves banning, then it also deserves full outing disclosure to protect members. The argument that silence somehow protects the forum owner is specious reasoning.

I swear to god, the way this place is run is ridiculous. People, posts and threads getting "disappeared" for no discernible reason, and then everyone talking about how they can't talk about things.

Ridiculous.

[honestbizpro]

Originally Posted by Melody

Sometimes you really have to wonder if people really realize just how 'small' the internet is - especially in the IM space......obviously, I cannot name the person or the WSO but here is what is going on:

1) Warrior A (with significant post count - someone "we can trust"!) launches WSO with great sales letter - but a sharp-eyed Warrior notes that those income bars on the Clickbank screen shot don't match up - yup - income has been falsified!

2) Another sharp eyed Warrior spots the site/product from above WSO being sold in the Marketplace at another well known forum......

3) Warriors post here and at the other Marketplace - PMs Warrior A at both locations. Posts and PMs are ignored....WSO is DELETED by Warrior A....posts at Marketplace DELETED by Warrior A.....there goes the possibility that 'something happened' and Warrior A just hasn't had time to come back and respond and clear up the mess.....he is NOT lying in a ditch somewhere.

I have received PMs that there were 'issues' with his last WSO - and refund requests were ignored then, just as now.

And here is the point I want to make: I am 54 years old. I have been in sales since I was 16 years old - started out as the sales manager for my high school newsletter. I have been in a very tough competitive niche - payment processing - for more than 20 years, and I am EXTREMELY successful. I made the transition in the industry from offline to online and not many of my generation were able to do that.

I have clients that have been with me for more than 15 years and in this business - that just doesn't happen. I have had processors go out of business overnight, owing clients HUGE amounts of money - but I was able to salvage my relationships with my clients, in spite of some very ugly situations, because I always try my best to do the right thing for my clients. ALWAYS!

I have always believed that I really have only ONE product - my personal integrity. Everything else, as far as I am concerned, is an 'add-on'. My clients know this. They know that I put their well being at the top of my priority list, and in turn - my business is well cared for as well.

The world is a very small place these days. I have clients in virtually every major city in the world - and your reputation follows you everywhere. Yesterday, for example, a new client called from Australia - referred by a client from South Africa that he met at a conference in Amsterdam......now THAT is a global reach, folks.

Deleting a few posts, getting rid of a WSO means nothing. It's still out there somewhere - waiting to pop up when you least expect it.

Once you lose your integrity - you lose everything. That $20 you made today is nothing compared to the time it takes to rebuild your reputation - if you ever can.

I don't know what is going on in this person's life - perhaps something so desperate that he has had to resort to such measures, but to me - this is simply sad. Yes, I know it's dishonest, but it's also heartbreaking to see someone that apparently has some good knowledge (based on past posts, thanks you's etc) throw it all away for a few hundred or even a few thousand dollars - small change compared to the long-term value of a good reputation.

My honest hope is that he will see this post - and make an attempt to get back on the right path again.

Melody

Hi Melody,


Love the message.

[Shane Dolby]

Randy the message you should take away from this thread is..if you scam you will get caught eventually!
More so here than probably anywhere else you have people that have been around for a very very long time and know most tricks that people can try!

Shane

[Steven Wagenheim]

What I don't understand is this, there are exceptions.

When Alison G was run out of town on a rail here, it was more than publicly
disclosed. It was a monumental brew ha ha. It might have been the most
widely viewed thread on the forum for months.

Granted, she conned some pretty respected warriors here, but does the
offense have to be that horrible for public awareness?

And then who decides if an offense is bad enough?

Seems to me that if a person has been banned from the forum, it should be
more than acceptable to point out who the person was and why they were
banned.

[Melody]

Originally Posted by mschmalenbach

My wife wondered if she shrunk her head, maybe her wrinkles wouldn't show either...!!

Tomorrow she'll be ****** (censored by 'she who must be obeyed'!) and she looks way younger - I told her she doesn't need to shrink her head - she looks just fab.

Now, maybe I need to shrink MY picture!! Though not sure that'll make the grey hair go away!!

Melody - thanks for this posting - good lessons for new and experienced alike to take on board.

Cheers

Martin

No shrinking doesn't make the gray hair go away - but Loreal does ;-D

And kudos for being an obviously intelligent male - that was a wonderful response to the birthday girl - turning 21 again is always stressful - although I celebrate everyone of them for at least a week - no matter the number - it is ALWAYS better than the alternative and worth every moment of party time. It's amazing how many meals out I can finagle.....

Melody

[Ursa Anzur]

I'm actually quite disappointed that it's him... I learned a lot from his posts a few months ago, when I first started... And I can't believe that he's selling this product on SP...

[Melody]

Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim

What I don't understand is this, there are exceptions.

When Alison G was run out of town on a rail here, it was more than publicly
disclosed. It was a monumental brew ha ha. It might have been the most
widely viewed thread on the forum for months.

Granted, she conned some pretty respected warriors here, but does the
offense have to be that horrible for public awareness?

And then who decides if an offense is bad enough?

Seems to me that if a person has been banned from the forum, it should be
more than acceptable to point out who the person was and why they were
banned.

As a consumer, I agree with you and Randy - it does seem to be a rather heavy handed policy, and as we know - not always meted out evenly.

On the other hand - I look at it as a business owner that could be legally liable for damaging statements made on this forum. Yes, Allan would most likely win if it went to court but would it be worth the trouble and cost? No - and I say that as someone that has owned her own company (many of them) for more than 30 years now.

I think it would be appropriate to name the banned person, but naming the offense - unless you have solid evidence to back it up - would be risky. I think in the case of AllisonG - there was quite a lot of evidence to back up what had been done, in this case - it would probably have been a little tougher to show intent/damages to anyone here.

All of that being equal, I have agree with Steve that there have been times when people have been named and the person calling them out was congratulated on the work. It is not a policy that seems to be equally and evenly enforced.

BUT - the real reason for my post today was simply that I am tired of seeing the scam artists hitting the WSO, and this one really got to me because I thought he was "ONE OF US"! Silly, huh? But I felt betrayed.

I have probably spent as much as anyone over the years on WSOs (as most of you that posted here know - that was the REAL reason for the compliments!) and I have learned so much and benefitted do much from WSOs - that it is sad to see newcomers here voice the opinion that they are afraid to buy WSOs.

That hurts everyone here - those that make a living selling their products here and those that come here to buy WSOs to learn how to make a living.

back to work now...........

Melody

[Thomas Belknap]

Originally Posted by Randy Bheites

ahahaha! I could hear you coughing through the *coughrichpeck* screen...

Still and all, it seems a rather draconian environment around here. I have a problem with draconian environments. They rankle my all-American life, liberty etc backbone.

@Tina G: "freeeedom!!"

You don't need to keep coming back if this places "rankle's" you so much.

[Clare Moser]

Thanks for the heads up!

[Melody]

Originally Posted by Thomas Belknap

You don't need to keep coming back if this places "rankle's" you so much.

Very true!

I do believe that the basic premise is something like 'he who pays da bills, makes da rules!'

This is now a free forum - although many of us did indeed pay to join many moons ago.
If you don't like the 'restrictive' environment set by the guy that makes this place possible - that's okay. You are free to come.....and go......

It's kind of like renting a house with a no pets policy - it's the owner's right to set the rules.

Sorry if it bothers you, but well, that's just the way it is.

Melody

[Randy Bheites]

Originally Posted by Thomas Belknap

You don't need to keep coming back if this places "rankle's" you so much.

Sorry, but I believe that dissent is patriotic. I refuse to quietly accept what I see as unfair, or to "love it or leave it" to please you or anyone else. If my comments displease you, you are likewise free to leave this public forum.

[Thomas Belknap]

Originally Posted by Randy Bheites

Sorry, but I believe that dissent is patriotic. I refuse to quietly accept what I see as unfair, or to "love it or leave it" to please you or anyone else. If my comments displease you, you are likewise free to leave this public forum.

Funny I call it whining and there is a lot of people on here that like to do that.

I guess they are all patriotic as well.

I learned to just let the people complain and whine while I go on doing what I need to do.

The rules have been the same for a long time and will more than likely remain the same. I just wanted to help you out since these rules are so burdensome and unfair to you. I am fine with the rules so there is no need for me to leave.

Basically, you are wasting your time trying to be "patriotic" regarding the rules.

[Melody]

First of all, this is not a 'public' forum - it is a privately owned website that is OPEN to the public. Big difference there.......

This is NOT a democratic society here - it is a forum owned and operated by one individual, Allan Says. The rules are not set by a vote - they are pretty much laid down by the one person that a) pays for the bandwidth this site uses and b) ultimately holds the legal and financial responsibility/burden for what is said/written here.

You are essentially on private property here, Randy - this may be open to the public but this is really not in the truest sense of the word - a public forum that is owned by the public.

There are rules and regs in place here and we who are members have agreed to abide by those rules in exchange for the privilege of using this forum.

You may not like the fact that you have to wear a shirt and shoes to go into your favorite bar at the beach for a quick beer - but the sign says 'no shirt, no service' and so you put on your shirt because the owner has the right to have certain rules in place in HIS BUSINESS.

Like it or not - same thing applies here. Not trying to be rude but as Thomas said - these are the rules here, and calling it unpatriotic is not going to get it changed.

There is a lot to be learned here - try learning more about us before you condemn us, okay?

Melody

There is, without a shadow of a doubt, a new generation of Internet marketers that is currently emerging from the same pool of undue entitlement that has caused many of the world's current economic issues. Their inability to defer gratification and sense that the world owes them some great debt of gratitude for breathing is what separates them from the leaders of the old school. I tell a lot of the younger companies that I work with that technical ingenuity and prowess can only bring you part of the way; at a certain point in time that ancient gear has to kick in and somebody needs to convey value and meaning to someone else in a manner that motivates them towards action. That common and uniquely human bond is so reliant upon developing trusting relationships that when somebody operating under the guises of business is actively dishonest, it puts not only their character, but the character of all who work in their midst in question.

While I have been generally dismissive of this community for years, my opinion of WF has changed in the last few months. I've been operating and consulting online businesses for a decade and while it is obvious that many of those self-identifying as gurus both here and elsewhere are not, there is an abundance of great business advice that is delivered without any expectations of repayment on this forum. It would be a shame to see something which began with such good intentions and with so many positive, active contributors turn into another internet marketplace regarded as a target for exploitation. I do think that it is important to note that the quality of WSO's that I have read has seemed to decline lately, but that may very well be caused by dilution.

So I pose a question back to you all, how does an active, self-policing marketplace avoid being trapped into this sort of cycle?

EDIT: ... or is this, in and of itself, an unreasonable expectation of any market?

[hotlinkz]

Really sad...

"Oh, how the mighty have fallen!"

Greed and avarice live on.

Reminds of the recent case of a mega-million dollar football star who blew it all on a cruel and pointless endeavor.

[Glenn Grundberg]

Originally Posted by Randy Bheites

ahahaha! I could hear you coughing through the *coughrichpeck* screen...

Still and all, it seems a rather draconian environment around here. I have a problem with draconian environments. They rankle my all-American life, liberty etc backbone.

@Tina G: "freeeedom!!"

No...draconian is when they cut off your freakin head after you get done screaming...

"freeeedom!!"

It WAS a good movie, though

[businessmentor]

The WarriorPlus site seems to be down.
Melody, sent you a PM (not asking you for the name of the person)

[Melody]

It was not Jeremy - just check back through the posts - someone **cough** gave it away......

[twocolor]

Hi Melody and Fellow Warriors ...

Someone had to stand up. There are many newbies here who are very vulnerable and assume that what is printed and shown is factual.

I have been a member of the warriors from the very beginning. Somehow my posts disappeared and now are under 160. I have met some awesome folks here and I have also had some unpleasant experiences.

I just posted earlier in response to seomeone who made website purchases and they have disappeared. He wanted to know what to do.

I have been there as well. And this particular purchase was from someone who has a high post count. Long story short...I received nothing and it took three months for the person to return my money....just under $400. I never received an apology. I really did expect an email or pm from her at some point but it never came.

I am still here and I am still buying from warriors. The lesson here is that high post count does not mean that the person has integrity. When there is an issue and it is ignored one can only assume the person does not care.

We all have challenges in life and I am a very understanding person. I think we can all agree... All it takes is an explanation or a prompt refund.

Also...many of my requests went unanswered and I posted in the forum if anyone had heard from her and my post was deleted. I had also contacted someone who knew her and received no response. What puzzled me were the nice messages exchanged and a great phone conversation at the very beginning.

It is wise to ask for an email address. If it is a large purchase I also ask for a telephone number. BTW 2 warriors I purchased from have disappeared and I did not get what I paid for. This has not changed my appreciation for the forum and the wealth of information. I have had great experiences here...and most of the folks here are awesome!

Thank you,

Sonia

P.S. Great to see baby boomers here! I am a young one too..LOL

[Kay King]

So true - if you just read the posts on this page you'll know who it is.

a new generation of Internet marketers that is currently emerging from the same pool of undue entitlement that has caused many of the world's current economic issues. Their inability to defer gratification and sense that the world owes them some great debt of gratitude for breathing is what separates them from the leaders of the old school.

Well stated.

Still and all, it seems a rather draconian environment around here. I have a problem with draconian environments. They rankle my all-American life, liberty etc backbone.

Guess you'll have to be rankled then. The OWNER of the WF has very few rules and those are designed to benefit the forum as a whole. I give you credit at least for not pulling out the old saw about "freedom of speech".

It's odd to see complaints that we can't talk about problems like this - isn't that what we're doing right now? It's possible this person may try to come back with another identity - but those of us who've seen it happen also know how quickly that new identity is "outed".

kay

[Cynthia A.]

Melody,

I don't know who you're talking about nor did I see the WSO. But you're so right that integrity is all we have. Unfortunately on the Internet where fake names & anonymity is so common, people scam just because they (think) can get away with it. After all, you don't know who they really are. They get busted, they close up shop & re-emerge as someone else. But the sad part is that I hear from so many people who think it's OK - as long as you can make a buck.

A lower level "Guru" sent a link to an affiliate product which included "income proof via video." But in taking a closer look at the screen shot toward the bottom of the page, I noticed the Clickbank numbers made no sense. I noticed because I receive checks from Clickbank so I know what the payment screen looks like. But someone who's a newbie might not even notice. I immediately unsubscribed from that marketers list because he endorsed the product saying how great it was. Ironically I'd just gotten on his list a few days before.

Cynthia

Edit: I actually did see that product but NOT as a WSO. A fellow Warrior sent me several emails about it saying it was about to be sold out. The seller seemed trustworthy because he claimed he learned what he did from Chris Rempel (who I think is a marketer with integrity) & he modeled his site after one of Chris'. I didn't even look at the screenshot.

Originally Posted by Melody

This is now a free forum - although many of us did indeed pay to join many moons ago.

I almost forgot that long ago you had to pay. When I joined (even before my official registration date) I paid to be a member.

[Randy Bheites]

So, what I'm hearing from many of you is the following:

- the rules are the rules
- the rules are the rules even if they are not articulated
- the rules are the rules even if they are not applied evenly
- one of the prime rules is "thou shalt not question the rules"
- thou shalt especially not question the unwritten rules

and

- if I don't like the rules written or otherwise, I can just shut up about it and leave

Have I got that right, "warriors"? Is that the secret inner circle code around here? Because all I started out with was pointing out that banning someone and then forbidding people to talk about the person banned was, in my opinion, stupid. And that I've noticed a lot of posts disappearing and people talking about not being able to talk about it, which I also think is stupid.

Suddenly I have people telling me, however politely or not, to take a hike and this is a private forum and no freedom of speech is allowed. And I notice it's pretty much the same people who regularly jump on anyone who has the unmitigated gall to point out the autocratic self-defeating idiocy of having unwritten and/or unevenhanded rules.

Think about that, people.

This guy, if he's ripping people off, deserves to be fully outed (so sorry that I missed his screename, which I am completely unfamiliar with, when it was briefly mentioned. My bad, you bet). Thieves need a spotlight shined brightly on them.

I really fail to understand why saying so is such a taboo and controversial concept. Silencing dissent does nothing but foster a chilling effect on a conversation, and generates an incestuous and unhealthy "group think" mentality that serves no one.

[GeorgettaSterling]

Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim

What I don't understand is this, there are exceptions.

When Alison G was run out of town on a rail here, it was more than publicly
disclosed. It was a monumental brew ha ha. It might have been the most
widely viewed thread on the forum for months.

Granted, she conned some pretty respected warriors here, but does the
offense have to be that horrible for public awareness?

And then who decides if an offense is bad enough?

Seems to me that if a person has been banned from the forum, it should be
more than acceptable to point out who the person was and why they were
banned.

I get it that the "rules are the rules" and all, but I am often perplexed by their application as well.

Does anyone remember "blond 16 year old girl Jordyn" aka Richard Earl aka Danny Wall (I think?). That particular serial offender has been "outed" very publicly on this forum several times. Nobody said anything about "Rule #1."

The funny thing is that now, when I peruse the WSO section, I wonder which of the posters is, in fact, Jordyn/Earl/Wall/Whoever he/she actually is (back again...). Banning doesn't seem to work too well for that. It is only my opinion, but public INFORMATION tends to work better than "member banned. Don't disclose."

I see the other side too, of course - it can't degenerate into a public name-calling cluster f-, because then the forum is again worthless AND innocent people are hurt.

I don't know - the whole thing makes my head hurt.

Georgetta

[tommygadget]

Originally Posted by Hello_All

Sooo can we get a name? Or alteast PM me so i dont fall for it. Steve mentioned a name but then everyone says its a HE then someone mentions Jeremy....So who is the real person?

Originally Posted by John Rowe

Take it easy Randy, if you read richpeck the posts more richpeck carefully, you may richpeck find out who the guy was.

These two taken together are the funniest thing IMO

TomG.

[Glenn Grundberg]

Originally Posted by Randy Bheites

So, what I'm hearing from many of you is the following:

- the rules are the rules
- the rules are the rules even if they are not articulated
- the rules are the rules even if they are not applied evenly
- one of the prime rules is "thou shalt not question the rules"
- thou shalt especially not question the unwritten rules

and

- if I don't like the rules written or otherwise, I can just shut up about it and leave

Have I got that right, "warriors"? Is that the secret inner circle code around here? Because all I started out with was pointing out that banning someone and then forbidding people to talk about the person banned was, in my opinion, stupid. And that I've noticed a lot of posts disappearing and people talking about not being able to talk about it, which I also think is stupid.

Suddenly I have people telling me, however politely or not, to take a hike and this is a private forum and no freedom of speech is allowed. And I notice it's pretty much the same people who regularly jump on anyone who has the unmitigated gall to point out the autocratic self-defeating idiocy of having unwritten and/or unevenhanded rules.

Think about that, people.

This guy, if he's ripping people off, deserves to be fully outed (so sorry that I missed his screename, which I am completely unfamiliar with, when it was briefly mentioned. My bad, you bet). Thieves need a spotlight shined brightly on them.

I really fail to understand why saying so is such a taboo and controversial concept. Silencing dissent does nothing but foster a chilling effect on a conversation, and generates an incestuous and unhealthy "group think" mentality that serves no one.

Very erudite, Randy.

But the thread isn't about YOU.

So stop hijacking it, and start your own.

Or Shut Up And Go Away.

I think that's what everyone is trying to tell you...



Buh Bye.

[Jeremy Kelsall]

lol if anyone can't figure out that it was some richpecker by now....then they truly need help

[dave830]

Great post to read! Love the conviction about integrity... glad to see there are a lot of "good guys" out there in the biz.

Oops, sorry Melody, "good girls" too.

[Joe Stewart]

Originally Posted by Bryan Kumar

Hmm...I'm not sure if I believe you, Melody.
You don't look anywhere near 54.
Maybe 44...

That was my thought exactly Bryan! Either that or that picture is 10 years old. :-)

[valerieSONORA]

Originally Posted by Randy Bheites

People, posts and threads getting "disappeared" for no discernible reason, and then everyone talking about how they can't talk about things.

Ooh, talking about how I can't talk about things, one of my favorite subjects.

I missed whatever the drama was, didn't see the wso, didn't know who the person was since it's not allowed to name (except in a special circumstance which I totally missed that drama too), didn't know what the product was, so out of curiosity Pm'd someone to ask what was going on and found out.

There is a Name and Shame Wall by Mmurtha where you can publicly warn people who have scammed you since you can't publicly name them here. If people want to warn about scammers, just post em there.

[Noel2010]

I read all the posts in this thread but since I didn't see the posts for that deleted WSO, I am not able to form an opinion about this.

I have purchased a WSO from this person before.

[Antoniocess]

"I really only have one product my personal integrity." That was great I was never able to put it in those words and I feel you. Thanks now I know how to put it

[Paul Schlegel]

Originally Posted by stevenh512

I think it is, since rule #1 doesn't apply "only" to Warriors. The point of rule #1 is that if you have a problem with someone, this isn't the place to make it public. It may be inconvenient at times, but it protects the integrity of the forum and keeps Allen out of trouble.

My guess is that it's more to protect the integrity of the forum. It's would be virtually impossible for Allen to be held accountable for the posts here:
California Supreme Court Affirms Broad Immunity for Defamatory Republication on the Internet : IP Law Blog : California Intellectual Property Lawyer, Attorney, Law Firm : Weintraub Genshlea Chediak, Sacramento

In fact in light of this recent Massachusetts case the rule is more likely to protect MEMBERS of the forum:

"BOSTON—Dozens of media firms are questioning a federal appeals court ruling that concluded truth is not an absolute defense against libel in a case concerning an e-mail sent in the firing of an office products salesman."
...
"While the ruling applies only in Massachusetts, observers say it means state residents may be able to bring suit against others living elsewhere, including those who have posted material online. Observers say the decision also could pose problems for nonmedia businesses."

Full article:

Truth not an absolute defense to libel/slander/defamation?

[Magic Johnson]

I believe this post is proof of frustration which comes to you and we when we don't have any rights to tell the whole story and name drop.

It's very bizarre.

Instead of we having the right to call people out we have to just
keep our mouth shut, bury our feelings and keep going on with our lives.

This creates tensions, anxiety and frustration.

We no longer have a right to communicate what we think, because we have no right to name people out, in fear of getting in trouble ourself, or get questioned on our own ethics.

We have to provde proof of everything like a lawyer in court, even if it's a none scammer.

I don't know where this all steams from. Maybe someone can clarify this.

But I have noticed this the last four years online.

[Jeremy Kelsall]

At the end of the day, the rule is there and people moan and groan about it.

But, can you name one time when someone has truly been outed as a scammer and then a thread being deleted when the persons name is outed? I can't.

Now, if you started threads like "Guru X is a no good piece of **** because he makes too much monies" -- it's going to get deleted.

I've been a member of the forum for over a year now nad I can recall many times when someone has scammed the community...they are outed, talked about, and then when everyone is tired of it -- It goes away.

[B3n]

Originally Posted by inetwarrior

It seems strange to me that rickpeck was banned yet Imram Naseem who has also faked his sales figures is still allowed to continue to sell here.

I find that just amazing.

I too find it amazing but maybe there is an explanation. When Imran posted fake screenshots he did it on an external site - Rich did it in a WSO.

It was extremely amusing to see that both made the same mistake; when they were caught out they replaced the fake screenshot with another fake one!

Gross stupidity

[Kay King]

I believe this post is proof of frustration which comes to you and we when we don't have any rights to tell the whole story and name drop.

That is not true. The name was given (try reading the thread) - the "story" could be put together yesterday by visiting warriorplus (and that site was available except for a short time yesterday). Those who take the time to learn how to use this forum found out what had happened. Today it's history as the person is totally gone from the WF as he should be.

This thread is about one specific incident - starting to post complaints about other people who were not involved in this is not a good idea.

This guy, if he's ripping people off, deserves to be fully outed (so sorry that I missed his screename, which I am completely unfamiliar with, when it was briefly mentioned. My bad, you bet). Thieves need a spotlight shined brightly on them.

I take it back - you did pull out the old "freedom of speech" argument, didn't you? If you missed his forum name it was because you were busy posting about what your gripes are. The spotlight couldn't have been brighter the past couple days - all the info was online to read (gone now).

When your focus is only on what you want, what you deserve, what your rights are, what you want to be told, how you want the forum run, etc - sometimes you miss the big picture....and the full story.

kay

[Nathan Hangen]

You see, I'm not worried about someone here calling me a scammer because every customer and blog reader can testify to the opposite.

I don't know why everyone is beating the drum for rule #1 here...I also think the "Allen could get sued" thing is a tad overrated.

Posts disappear from here all the time and when you send a support ticket to ask, you get no reply. This place can be like the Bermuda Triangle sometimes.

"If you don't get in line we'll lock you away."

This forum has tremendous value, and I don't think anyone is trying to say otherwise. However, in a member moderated forum it seems odd that members aren't really in control of what is allowed and what isn't.