How To Kill Your Reputation In TWO Forums In 3 Easy Steps!!!

[Melody]

Sometimes you really have to wonder if people really realize just how 'small' the internet is - especially in the IM space......obviously, I cannot name the person or the WSO but here is what is going on:

1) Warrior A (with significant post count - someone "we can trust"!) launches WSO with great sales letter - but a sharp-eyed Warrior notes that those income bars on the Clickbank screen shot don't match up - yup - income has been falsified!

2) Another sharp eyed Warrior spots the site/product from above WSO being sold in the Marketplace at another well known forum......

3) Warriors post here and at the other Marketplace - PMs Warrior A at both locations. Posts and PMs are ignored....WSO is DELETED by Warrior A....posts at Marketplace DELETED by Warrior A.....there goes the possibility that 'something happened' and Warrior A just hasn't had time to come back and respond and clear up the mess.....he is NOT lying in a ditch somewhere.

I have received PMs that there were 'issues' with his last WSO - and refund requests were ignored then, just as now.

And here is the point I want to make: I am 54 years old. I have been in sales since I was 16 years old - started out as the sales manager for my high school newsletter. I have been in a very tough competitive niche - payment processing - for more than 20 years, and I am EXTREMELY successful. I made the transition in the industry from offline to online and not many of my generation were able to do that.

I have clients that have been with me for more than 15 years and in this business - that just doesn't happen. I have had processors go out of business overnight, owing clients HUGE amounts of money - but I was able to salvage my relationships with my clients, in spite of some very ugly situations, because I always try my best to do the right thing for my clients. ALWAYS!

I have always believed that I really have only ONE product - my personal integrity. Everything else, as far as I am concerned, is an 'add-on'. My clients know this. They know that I put their well being at the top of my priority list, and in turn - my business is well cared for as well.

The world is a very small place these days. I have clients in virtually every major city in the world - and your reputation follows you everywhere. Yesterday, for example, a new client called from Australia - referred by a client from South Africa that he met at a conference in Amsterdam......now THAT is a global reach, folks.

Deleting a few posts, getting rid of a WSO means nothing. It's still out there somewhere - waiting to pop up when you least expect it.

Once you lose your integrity - you lose everything. That $20 you made today is nothing compared to the time it takes to rebuild your reputation - if you ever can.

I don't know what is going on in this person's life - perhaps something so desperate that he has had to resort to such measures, but to me - this is simply sad. Yes, I know it's dishonest, but it's also heartbreaking to see someone that apparently has some good knowledge (based on past posts, thanks you's etc) throw it all away for a few hundred or even a few thousand dollars - small change compared to the long-term value of a good reputation.

My honest hope is that he will see this post - and make an attempt to get back on the right path again.

Melody

[Chris Thompson]

Melody - your on-exit popup is awesome. Did you hire someone to make it? I'm thinking it's time for me to make my own a lot more attractive. I've never hired a web designer, only graphics designers.

[Melody]

Chris - not sure which script I am using on the MobiOptin site but will check and PM you - I am pretty sure I bought it here through a WSO - I rarely go outside of the WF for anything I use!

As to the site - hand built it myself! Including the graphics - some women learn how to knit - I learned how to build websites - it's a good creative outlet for me considering that most of my day revolves around contracts ;-)

Melody

[Swastik]

Right on the money, Melody.

I've watched the WSO thread from the time Jeremy replied, and it's pathetic to say the least. Trying to get out clean by selling the whole thing is also not justified IMO.

Who knows about the statistics that are shown on Sitepoint auction...

First one should never forge these statistics. Trying to make a quick buck, it can backfire completely. Then, if one has done this, one must not avoid the crowd in such a manner. Have the courage to admit it, and invest the time building a reputation back. With every such act, the reputation is draining...

[R Hagel]

Originally Posted by Melody

Deleting a few posts, getting rid of a WSO means nothing. It's still out there somewhere - waiting to pop up when you least expect it.

Yep. WSO's live on at WSO Tracker - Tracking, Notifications, Watchlist, RSS Alerts, Stats and more... | Warrior+Plus -- comments and all. It's a handy tool for buyers to check a seller's history.

Even if WarriorPlus didn't have a copy of all WSOs, they'd pop up elsewhere. Lots of folks on this forum save copies of threads that are likely to disappear. Like you said -- this kind of stuff is just waiting to pop up when least expected.

The person in question scrambled to cover his tracks. Best thing he could do -- if he cared about his rep at all -- would be to just come forward, come clean, apologize and make amends. Start fresh.

(Unfortunately, too many people in the same situation choose to just "start fresh" under a new name -- and they compound their problems when folks later discover who they really are.)

Cheers,
Becky

[SaSeoPete]

Yep I saw that both of them. He tried to sell in on SP this morning.

[Melody]

Originally Posted by Swastik

Right on the money, Melody.

I've watched the WSO thread from the time Jeremy replied, and it's pathetic to say the least. Trying to get out clean by selling the whole thing is also not justified IMO.

Who knows about the statistics that are shown on Sitepoint auction...

First one should never forge these statistics. Trying to make a quick buck, it can backfire completely. Then, if one has done this, one must not avoid the crowd in such a manner. Have the courage to admit it, and invest the time building a reputation back. With every such act, the reputation is draining...

That's exactly what I said to him in a PM on both forums last night - and then discovered this am that he had deleted all of the Warrior posts at the other forum, and deleted the WSO here.

Show some backbone, admit you were desperate (?) and screwed up. Re-build your rep here.....but I would say that ain't his gameplan at this point!

[Melody]

Originally Posted by R Hagel

Yep. WSO's live on at WSO Tracker - Tracking, Notifications, Watchlist, RSS Alerts, Stats and more... | Warrior+Plus -- comments and all. It's a handy tool for buyers to check a seller's history.

Even if WarriorPlus didn't have a copy of all WSOs, they'd pop up elsewhere. Lots of folks on this forum save copies of threads that are likely to disappear. Like you said -- this kind of stuff is just waiting to pop up when least expected.

The person in question scrambled to cover his tracks. Best thing he could do -- if he cared about his rep at all -- would be to just come forward, come clean, apologize and make amends. Start fresh.

(Unfortunately, too many people in the same situation choose to just "start fresh" under a new name -- and they compound their problems when folks later discover who they really are.)

Cheers,
Becky

LOL - I forgot about that this am - and I shouldn't have since I use the site myself frequently!

Still hoping that he will change his mind and make amends - this is NOT about the $20 here - I don't care about that at this point - you just really hate to see someone blow themselves up like this!

Melody

[sachibhat]

Good Reputation is something which takes time to build but getting that reputation to spoil will take seconds.

So be honest

[Mark .W. James]

Could you please tell us who this person is?

[Bryan Kumar]

Hmm...I'm not sure if I believe you, Melody.
You don't look anywhere near 54.
Maybe 44...

[Dennis Murphy]

Hi Melody,

Yeah, it was sad to see the lengths they had gone through to try and cover their tracks. I just checked their profile, and they've now been banned from the Warrior Forum.

I doubt this is the last we've heard from this "Warrior", as I'm sure they'll be back under a new username soon.

[Melody]

Originally Posted by Bryan Kumar

All I can say is, you don't look anywhere near 54, Melody.
Maybe 44...

Bryan - I ALREADY BOUGHT YOUR BOOK!!!! LOL - just kidding and thanks for the compliment - it's amazing how the wrinkles don't show when you reduce those photos!!!

Mel

[Steven Wagenheim]

There is NO way you're 54.

That Avatar must be a fake.

All kidding aside, you're right...reputation is the whole ball game. I am
speaking as someone who has done stupid things and as a result has lost
some good friendships. While some might think they're trivial things (bragging,
opening my big mouth, being super opinionated, giving opinions as if they
were law) there have been people who simply put me in the category of
"total ass" and no longer want anything to do with me (not that I blame
them)

And who did it hurt?

Me.

So yes, what you do follows you your whole life.

And some things are just not easily fixable.

Thanks for a very sobering post.

[Melody]

Originally Posted by amudara

Could you please tell us who this person is?

No, that's against WF policy - I posted because I really wanted to make the point that this was very shortsighted to do what he did - and - silly me! - I was kind of hoping he would step up and make it right, as Rebecca suggested.

Melody

[Kay King]

Melody -

I don't think he could delete the wso here - he could mark it closed and remove the text by editing - but it may have been deleted by mods. I've been watching this, too, and checked the sales page that had the falsified info on it - and the message there today is

Sorry guys! This has sold out.

Also, on the other site it was mentioned he "forgot to add google analytics" - but you can "see it's legit" if you " check my revenue screenshots".

"Correcting" his original errors and then trying to sell through another forum is an indication of how deliberate this attempt was - as does the lack of response when found out.

From the WSO Rules:

3. Anyone Caught Scamming Members Will Be Deleted From This Forum Entirely. (obviously)

They don't get much more scammy than faking earnings to sell a product. Two sets of faked income, two scam attempts and lie after lie - is about as deliberate as it gets.

kay

EDIT: Glad to see "banned" in this case. It doesn't matter who it was - it's important to air it so everyone knows NOT to try scamming members here.

[seemar49]

It even surprises me that when I was at a seminar the main speaker were telling the audience that it is ok to fabricate a story to get a sale. What message was this sending out to an audience of newbies?

[Melody]

Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim

There is NO way you're 54.

That Avatar must be a fake.

All kidding aside, you're right...reputation is the whole ball game. I am
speaking as someone who has done stupid things and as a result has lost
some good friendships. While some might think they're trivial things (bragging,
opening my big mouth, being super opinionated, giving opinions as if they
were law) there have been people who simply put me in the category of
"total ass" and no longer want anything to do with me (not that I blame
them)

And who did it hurt?

Me.

So yes, what you do follows you your whole life.

And some things are just not easily fixable.

Thanks for a very sobering post.

Gee - shoulda mentioned my age a long time ago - this is great for the ego! ;-)

Seriously though, Steve, I never fault a person for voicing their opinions, and I think what you have accomplished is amazing! You are one of the folks here that I learn from - so not all of us consider you a 'total ass'!

But even if I did - there is a HUGE difference between voicing your opinions, whether they are 'considered' right or wrong, and pure dishonesty.

And you have the integrity and courage to repair any broken bridges, I am sure.

Again - integrity really, really matters.

melody

[jedz]

Sorry to hear about what happened Melody. I just hope that it will still be sorted out.

[flnz400]

No, the entire thread was deleted. I know because I posted in it... not to stir up more ruckus, but to make it known that stepping up and making it right was a critical step at this point in time.

Unless there is no concern for myself and other's purchases from another site, then I would say let it be. Maybe flip that too? Cool.

[Tom Ryan]

It is unfortunate that someone would feel the need to cheat people just to make a few bucks. The thing is, they probably would have made a lot more money if they would have created an honest product that provided value. At least they would still have their integrity and reputation.

[Adaptive]

I have always believed that I really have only ONE product - my personal integrity. Everything else, as far as I am concerned, is an 'add-on'. My clients know this. They know that I put their well being at the top of my priority list, and in turn - my business is well cared for as well.

Melody, in sharing this attitude you have made the post of the year! Thank you!

What a difference it would make if everyone were to ask: "Starting with my integrity and caring, what techniques can I use to be of service?" I see some people chase one idea after another in a blizzard of confusion. If people start with the attitude of service, than the answer to "what tools & techniques" is easy: use whichever one best serves and helps the customer.

Thanks again for the inspiration.

Regards,
Allen

[warlords]

Wow, Melody, you sure know how to speak to your money. I agree with you there; reputation is something that no money can buy.

[Melody]

Originally Posted by Kay King

Melody -

I don't think he could delete the wso here - he could mark it closed and remove the text by editing - but it may have been deleted by mods. I've been watching this, too, and checked the sales page that had the falsified info on it - and the message there today is

Also, on the other site it was mentioned he "forgot to add google analytics" - but you can "see it's legit" if you " check my revenue screenshots".

"Correcting" his original errors and then trying to sell through another forum is an indication of how deliberate this attempt was - as does the lack of response when found out.

From the WSO Rules:

They don't get much more scammy than faking earnings to sell a product. Two sets of faked income, two scam attempts and lie after lie - is about as deliberate as it gets.

kay

EDIT: Glad to see "banned" in this case. It doesn't matter who it was - it's important to air it so everyone knows NOT to try scamming members here.

Kay -

Thanks for the info on the deletion of the WSO - I have only done one, and wasn't aware of the ability to close or delete one. And you are right - the comments on the other site definitely tell the tale of the original intent.

On a 'higher' note - many warriors PM'd me to ask what I used for the cool exit pop-up - and it is Action Optin by a very trustworthy Warrior - Robert Plank.

Thankfully - we have more Warriors like Robert than 'unnamed'.........

This is still the best place online to learn and grow...

Melody

[Jeremy Kelsall]

I was following that one too...

I was surprised to see who was doing it for certain. It just goes to show you, don't believe someone just because they throw a screen shot up and tell you it is legitimate.

[Nathan Hangen]

I think the WSO forum lends to some of this behavior on its own, but I really can't understand why someone would do this. I mean, in theory it would be really easy to pull a huge scam on the WSO section and if you knew what you were doing you could avoid all traces of personal identification. This is why I rarely buy from the WSO section and why I don't like running my own WSO's unless I need to. I'm not blaming the forum, but it feeds on this type of thing.

Great post. Hopefully it will warn some new Warriors that don't know any better.

By the way, I know its been said, but Ohio must be treating you well

[Melody]

Originally Posted by Jeremy Kelsall

I was following that one too...

I was surprised to see who was doing it for certain. It just goes to show you, don't believe someone just because they throw a screen shot up and tell you it is legitimate.

Jeremy - I bought the report because I had followed his posts in the past - did not even check the income stats because I felt no need to - YOU were the sharp eye that caught it.

Thanks for your vigilance!

Melody

[Melody]

Originally Posted by Nathan Hangen

I think the WSO forum lends to some of this behavior on its own, but I really can't understand why someone would do this. I mean, in theory it would be really easy to pull a huge scam on the WSO section and if you knew what you were doing you could avoid all traces of personal identification. This is why I rarely buy from the WSO section and why I don't like running my own WSO's unless I need to. I'm not blaming the forum, but it feeds on this type of thing.

Great post. Hopefully it will warn some new Warriors that don't know any better.

By the way, I know its been said, but Ohio must be treating you well

Nathan -

LOL - your WSO was a total over deliver as I recall - it was awesome! I have been buying WSOs for years - and until the past year - never a problem. In fact many of the resources I use on a daily basis come from WSOs - my hubby is always amazed when he finds some expensive service or tool that he thinks we should be using and I tell him we have it and what WE paid!

This is an amazing resource - and I just hate like hell to see the fact that many people are now concerned about buying a WSO - that should not be the case and will ultimately hurt everyone here - the sellers and the buyers!

And yes, I have to give credit to my Ohio lifestyle - jumped out of Siicon Valley 10 years ago - today work from my log home on 5 acres - 15 mins from the Reds and Bengals stadiums, and my office overlooks my own lake. It's much nicer to see the deer and geese out my window than the traffic ;-)

Melody

[Jeremy Kelsall]

Melody,

He definitely seemed like someone that you could probably "trust" and I really am surprised that he did this.

Even more so, I'm surprised to find out that the guy is nothing more than a crook. The first screenshot was caught -- he took it down and put another one up, which was still wrong lol

Then he cleaned up the bars and put it on site point, but the totals still didn't add up

I'm leery of just about anyone who leads a sales page off with a big screen shot trying to prove income...If it was further down in the page, I probably wouldn't have even looked.

[B3n]

Originally Posted by Jeremy Kelsall

The first screenshot was caught -- he took it down and put another one up, which was still wrong lol

Didn't this happen last September? The scammer claimed he had been 'hacked' back then.

Mind you, as far as I know that person is still on this forum - and selling WSOs still. So-called 'Blackhat' ones, naturally!

[esr]

This is a good reminder for me. I get so much good info here that I tend to get relaxed and trust everyone. Especially if their post count is high.

[Melody]

Originally Posted by .Ben.

Didn't this happen last September? The scammer claimed he had been 'hacked' back then.

Mind you, as far as I know that person is still on this forum - and selling WSOs still. So-called 'Blackhat' ones, naturally!

I missed that one - was on the road a lot last fall - but at least he made an attempt to explain - in this case - he made no explanation at all - and certainly no apology.

Either way - bad tactics for long term success.......

Melody

[Raydal]

Originally Posted by seemar49

It even surprises me that when I was at a seminar the main speaker were telling the audience that it is ok to fabricate a story to get a sale. What message was this sending out to an audience of newbies?

I think this is a completely different subject and issue.

Do you think that the famous Wall Street Journal letter using the
story of the two college graduates was true?

All fairy tales are not true either. You can use a story to illustrate
a point but this is not the same as LYING and DECEPTION.

I don't know in what context this marketer was saying to fabricate
a story, but if it's in the way I'm thinking he is right.

-Ray Edwards

[bhuff85]

I saw that WSO, and I, like everyone else, though this "Warrior" was a trustworthy person. I mean, everything they did up until this point was good. They gave solid advice, put out some decent products, etc.

Man, all of that work just for a couple quick bucks? It really DOES make you wonder how desperate of a situation they were in for that to happen.

I always make sure I take care of everyone. I put a high value on customer service. Without good customer service, you have no customer retention. I shouldn't have to really get into how important customer service is in your business, because it should be relevant, whether your on or offiline.

Treat those how you would like to be treated. Next time you feel like not doing something for a customer, no matter how "out of line" or how "pesky" they may seem or be, turn the situation around and try to see yourself in their shoes.

I bet that may change a few things, eh?

Man, I've had some outrageous customers before, but I always try to do my best, no matter how upset I may be. I always offer support on all of my products (and some that are NOT mine), and open myself to any questions that anyone on my list of subscribers may have.

Sure, it takes more time, but that customer will value me and what I present them a lot more than if I just ignored them.

So, back to my main point - The internet may seem like a big place, but what most people don't realize is the amount of interlinking networks that lie within it.

In other words, if you screw up big time, the whole community will find out, and they will find out fast.

This person should just come clean, but then again, they may never be able to gain that trust back again, or it will at least take a lot of time.....

[sevenish]

Originally Posted by .Ben.

Didn't this happen last September? The scammer claimed he had been 'hacked' back then.

Mind you, as far as I know that person is still on this forum - and selling WSOs still. So-called 'Blackhat' ones, naturally!

Yeah, I remember that one. I also know from where he stole some of those WSOs & scripts.

[Jeremy Kelsall]

.Ben,

Unfortunately, you are probably right.

I remember the "incident" that you are talking about and I'm surprised as hell that the person is still here selling and with a somewhat "good reputation" from the amount of people that do business with him.

Ah well, what can you do?

[Hamida Harland]

Interesting to see that the scammer in question keeps deleting comments on his Sitepoint auction relating to what's happening here.

[Steven Wagenheim]

Originally Posted by Jeremy Kelsall

.Ben,

Unfortunately, you are probably right.

I remember the "incident" that you are talking about and I'm surprised as hell that the person is still here selling and with a somewhat "good reputation" from the amount of people that do business with him.

Ah well, what can you do?

Jeremy, reputations go both ways and in many ways.

I continuously get people either PMing me or emailing me about your
$30 coaching program. I guess they figure if I recommend it that's good
enough for them. On the other hand, I wouldn't be getting so many
inquiries if you didn't have such a solid reputation to begin with.

I really have to start charging you a finders fee for all the folks I send
over to you.

[Swastik]

Originally Posted by Hamida Harland

Interesting to see that the scammer in question keeps deleting comments on his Sitepoint auction relating to what's happening here.

He's just tryin' to get rid of it. Definitely not the right way to approach this. He is accountable for what he did, and he should answer people. Running away from things in such a manner doesn't do any good.

He shouldn't have done this in the first place, and now, instead of clearing his act - he's trying to run away. But from what....? himself? I bet he'll have a guilt feeling somewhere, just that he won't show.

[Nathan Hangen]

What scares me about this forum is that anytime something like this happens, no one is allowed to talk about it because of the dreaded "rule #1," which IMO is an issue. How are people supposed to know who they can and can't trust if we can't educate them? For instance, I've got a few bids on sitepoint and now I'm a bit worried, yet any post mentioning the name is deleted.

[JayXtreme]

Originally Posted by Nathan Hangen

What scares me about this forum is that anytime something like this happens, no one is allowed to talk about it because of the dreaded "rule #1," which IMO is an issue. How are people supposed to know who they can and can't trust if we can't educate them? For instance, I've got a few bids on sitepoint and now I'm a bit worried, yet any post mentioning the name is deleted.

Nathan..

That rule is what keeps this forum so professional..

Imagine what COULD happen if everyone was allowed to air personal beefs..

People could get wrongly accused of all sorts... that rule keeps the names of scammers away from the main board, but it also keeps the crazy folks from running rampant making unfounded claims about others...

[sevenish]

Nathan,

I PM'd you some information.

[Nathan Hangen]

Originally Posted by JayXtreme

Nathan..

That rule is what keeps this forum so professional..

Imagine what COULD happen if everyone was allowed to air personal beefs..

People could get wrongly accused of all sorts... that rule keeps the names of scammers away from the main board, but it also keeps the crazy folks from running rampant making unfounded claims about others...

That's true Jay...I agree with you, but there's got to be a way to warn people. IMO deleting the thread isn't enough.

[Charles Washington]

Here is how to alert people, without naming the person.

Visit WSO Tracker - Tracking, Notifications, Watchlist, RSS Alerts, Stats and more... | Warrior+Plus

Since we know, from this thread, that it was deleted yesterday - and it involves a clickbank screenshot - We can then search fora listing that was closed/deleted yesterday regarding CB.

It only took me 2 minutes to find out who you guys are talking about

[Nathan Hangen]

Thanks for that resource

-Nathan

[R Hagel]

Originally Posted by Nathan Hangen

That's true Jay...I agree with you, but there's got to be a way to warn people. IMO deleting the thread isn't enough.

I believe the person in question has been banned.

But even if he wasn't, there isn't anything stopping you from warning folks using other means. For example, you're free to post your warnings on your own blog and then tweet about that blog post. (Or use any other number of ways to let folks know about it.)

As mentioned, you just can't do it here for the reasons stated. (Also, it helps protect Allen from lawsuits and such when there aren't any names floating around on his forum -- that's another reason Rule #1 exists.)

Cheers,
Becky

[John Rowe]

If richpeck is now banned then is mentioning his username, from back when he was a Warrior, still a violation of rule #1?

Just askin'.

[Palo Coyote]

Thank you Charles, just like Nathan I was somewhat concerned about who this person is. You gave us a quick and easy way to get that info. Much appreciated.

WSO's and this entire forum have been a very, very valuable part of my internet business. There are people here who have reputations that are Gold. They over deliver, they respond almost instantly, they show a very caring attitude. This is a valuable, and important place. Melody and I have corresponded and she's one of those excellent people. Her main point, "Once you lose your integrity - you lose everything" is one of the most important ideas everyone in this forum should heed.

The "Lifetime Value" of a client increases exponentially when you treat them with integrity. You also get positive points in the universe, and you can feel really good about what you do for a living.

Thanks Melody and all who commented...good stuff,

Palo

[momkat]

I was unhappy with one of his WSOs from the fall - I asked for a refund in the thread - I think I emailed as well - but never got a response.

[momkat]

Can we get the deleted WSO undeleted? Having it gone leaves those who might be vulnerable to purchasing other things from himm in the future not to be able to do any due diligence research.