Why do IM'ers think that people want to read thousands of words on their squeeze page?

[DavidTheMavin]

I know I don't! Once I see a ton of text and a super long landing or squeeze page I say forget it.

Don't IM'ers know that people ready significantly less and have shorter attention spans on the Internet? This is usability 101 from like 1996 here.

I mean just look at the popularity of twitter.

[ProductCreator]

Some do, some don't. By using a long page sales format split up with sub-headlines, you cater for both audiences.

[TerryTelford]

Hi David

If your hypothesis was true, there wouldn't be so many long sales pages. I do tend to agree with your thinking, but when you test it, some products work better with long sales copy some with short. I use both long and short copy depending on the complexity of the product. When I say sales copy, I'm referring to sales copy for a give away or for a product people pay for.

Rule of thumb for copy is you write as much as it takes.

Enjoy your day1
Terry

[Adaptive]

David, sometimes I see a long, long, long pitch for a free newsletter.

If I like what I see from the start of the letter... skim through and nothing really shouts "NO" at me... then I might sign up, without having read the whole thing.

There must be enough other people who do this to make it worthwhile for the long signup letters to keep running.

Regards,
Allen

[mschmalenbach]

Hi David

A good point, well made!

I struggle with this at times - I don't like to read long squeeze pages, yet find myself wanting to write long squeeze pafes of my own - something about wanting to furnish the reader with the info needed so they can make an informed decision about my offering.

Now, I'm no saint at this, but I am (too slowly) beginning to edit my squeeze pages to make use of a couple of things:

1 - Active voice - it generally leads to shorter sentences - Google this for more info - my fave resource is at Active and Passive Verbs

2 - 4-MAT system by Bernice MacCarthy - see Bernice McCarthy - The 4-mat System

Basically with 4-MAT you provide an overall '4-MAT' of the product or service up front so to speak, and then do mini 4-MATs for each major section or aspect of the product or service.

So, you provide a 'WHAT' - what is the product or service.
You provide a 'WHY' - why should the reader be interested, a WIIFM if you like
Also you provide some essence of 'HOW' - not too much as you'll want to keep much of the HOW for your product or service - you don't want to give it ALL away!
Finally provide a 'WHAT IF' - an upside and a downside [or maybe just an upsaide... ]

And then if the reader wants to learn more specifics, they can dive off to a secondary page (open in new window or tab) if necessary...

It's all to do with thinking preferences and how people learn & communicate. We all have a preference for 1 or 2 of the 4-MAT elements and if these aren't answered very quickly, at the start almost of the page, then we struggle to stay attentive to the rest of the page and it's content, and so any further sales 'blurb' is wasted on some - perhaps on too many...

After all, who can afford to lose ANY visitors?

Cheers

Martin

[Wakunahum]

Usability 101: You can scroll past the text you don't want to read. :P

[Rachel Rofe]

Agreed.

This video was PHENOMENAL in proving this even more (it's from the guy who created Frank Kern's landing pages, Matt Trainer):

Internet Business Blog, Internet Marketing Advice Blog Archive Conversion secrets for 2009 revealed…

[DavidTheMavin]

Originally Posted by Wakunahum

Usability 101: You can scroll past the text you don't want to read. :P

Not when the text, demonstration or free account link is hidden within a bunch of salesy copy.

I've found some of the "leaders" in kw software don't even have a simple link to bring you to an order form. There will be a # link that brings you to another link (and in one case you still have to scroll to the order link), then that link brings you to a cart page (not even the actual order page) and then a third click brings you to the "Join Page". That's THREE clicks just to order something, not good from my years of analyzing conversions and drop off rates. Look at any p r o n site and you'll see there's usually a "Join Here" link that will bring you directly to the page that you enter your CC info and that's it, and that's the way it's been for years.

[DavidTheMavin]

Originally Posted by TerryTelford

Hi David

If your hypothesis was true, there wouldn't be so many long sales pages. I do tend to agree with your thinking, but when you test it, some products work better with long sales copy some with short.

I don't know, maybe it does work with IM, but I've done marketing in tons (hundreds?) of other markets over the years and no other industry I've ever seen uses these crazy long landing page as the norm.

If you jump back to the early days of SEO then it worked like a charm for baiting the SE's to list that page for everything under the sun, but those days are gone with the dinosaurs.

[TrafficWhizz]

there has been research done to say taht long sales page are better. The resaon being is psychological in that people feel they are getting more value when they are reading a long sales page. It has been shown that people do tend to read the first few hundred words and then scroll down all the way to the P.S's at the bottom.

With the rise and easiness of video on the internet it seem sthat alot more people will soon be using video as a means of sales page. It would be a hell of a lot easier, plus people seem to be able to sell themselves better in person than in writing, so it might see a sharp drop in copywriters, or maybe even a new breed of video copywriters... creepy!

[Daniel E Taylor]

I recently converted to all video and ditched the long sales letters. I use to write long sales letters and use them for all my products. It's 2009, with it being as easy as it is to use video I see long sales letters dying out soon.

Video is the way to go.

[nanexist]

Personally, I agree. I hate it. I hate those long friggin pages. So annoying. How can anyone prefer that?

[vicone]

My understanding is that the subject is about long Squeeze (Optin) pages rather than long sales letters.

Designers of these pages may have several reasons for the way they structure the page.

* Naturally, obtaining a high optin rate is important.

* Establishing credibility. The designer may consider it important to spend time building 'social proof' (testimonials) for their freebie, especially if it is an 'ecourse', to show that it has perceived value.

* Getting indexed by the search engines. The designer may want this page to receive a high ranking in the SERP (search engine results pages) to increase free traffic to that page. To enable this, enough content with relevant keywords will need to be on that page for the search engines to consider the page has value beyond capturing addresses.

If a long optin page is produced, a canny designer will have at least two optin forms - one high up, preferably above the fold (before scrolling), to capture the addresses of those who don't need a lot of persuasion and are ready to roll! The other optin form will be placed towards the bottom for those who've had the stamina to read the whole damn thing.

The following landing page has been designed with those factors in mind and has proven to be successful at it. It has an optin rate of 30% without using popups. I've had similar success with a somewhat shorter version (fewer testimonials) but it demonstrates the point that much of the content is for indexing purposes (search engines). The graphics are for human readers.

Guide to Betta Fish and Beta Fish Care

Ivan

[GuerrillaIM]

In my experience ambiguity is great for getting people to sign up to squeeze page. Raise lots of interesting points that arouse curiosity but to actually get the info they have to sign up.

I have seen boost in my conversions by putting lots of questions on the squeeze page and then saying to get the answers they have to sign up.

[SimonHarrison]

Video over long copy anyday..

However where people go wrong is they seem to think video is an en excuse for poor copy.

The video should have as much time and equally as good a script as the copy it replaced.

For the record I think most IM'ers are bored silly with IM stuff and either skim or leave within 20-30 seconds, but that's IM'ers, people are still making insane money in niches with long copy...

[Roca]

I've seen both work, short and long copy. My guess is that it depends on how you segment and reach visitors...if one targets teens with a short attention span for a non-complicated or cheap product, then short copy will work. If the product is relatively expensive, or the target market is a bit more left-brain, then longer copy will work.

[ElectricChili]

I do a search for $ to find out what the price is. I don't have time to read a long sales page only to find out that it's overpriced. Some people want you to optin to find out the price. I'll never buy anything from someone who does that.

Rich Scherlitz

[Nathan Hangen]

Where is the distinction between short and long?

[Mark Riddle]

Here's one of my sites that has a HUGE conversion rate.

Beginner Marketing Videos How To Make Money Online The EASY Way ... I write more text on a post card

Mark Riddle

[Thomas]

Originally Posted by DavidTheMavin

I know I don't! Once I see a ton of text and a super long landing or squeeze page I say forget it.

Personally, I hate video... why do you and others think everyone wants to watch it? (If they even can... a lot of people are STILL confined to dial-up, even in 2009).

But I know that I (like you) am not everybody; The fact that I (or you) don't like something doesn't mean it isn't viable, appropriate, or effective.

Tommy.

[Black Hat Cat]

Originally Posted by Thomas

Personally, I hate video...

Tommy.

So do I. Any properly written sale page/squeeze page has bullet points that I can absorb in about a minute. Why would I want to sit through a 30 minute video instead? Answer: I wouldn't. And I don't.

[stevenh512]

Originally Posted by Daniel E Taylor

I recently converted to all video and ditched the long sales letters.

It's important to remember that high speed internet is still far from a "worldwide" thing. In some areas, it's simply not available for any price and won't be any time in the near future. If you want to convert to all video sales pages that's certainly your choice, and I can see how it would convert better for those who do have "modern" conveniences like high speed internet, but keep in mind that you're also losing potential customers. Some of us will never buy from you simply because your sales message will never "reach" us.

I'm stuck with dialup, nothing I can do about it. When I see an all video sales page I don't care what the product is or who's selling it, it's an instant "bounce" because I'm not going to wait half an hour for a video to buffer just so somebody can try to sell me something.

edit: Of course, there are a few exceptions to that.. for example I did take advantage of Mike Filsaime's "free" Butterfly Marketing 2.0 offer even though the sales page was all video.. but in that case, I was already "sold" on the product 3 years ago, I just couldn't afford it at the time.

[Mark Riddle]

For me Video sales letter is part of the qualifying process.

If you can't see the sale letter, you wouldn't be able to use the product.

Just one way to maintain a focused list of people that have qualified themselves as having a connection that is required to use my products.

Mark

[DavidTheMavin]

Well anyone who subscribes to the 4HWW won't like the long squeeze page either. If it takes an hour to read about one product you're wasting some serious time!

[anteck]

It's annoying. I just scroll down to the bottom, see how much it is, and do a quick scan.

In terms of video, i don't mind it, if it's used properly & they get to the point quickly.

Best sales squeeze page i've seen in a long time has virtually no text, and a decent video that showed exactly what the product did, without fluff and hype and crap.

I hope that IM'ers will realize, we just don't' have time to read through all the hype BS. If you're product is decent, we'll buy it. No hype needed for products that do a job and do it properly.

We'll most likely find two opinions here:

1. The people who like it - They'll be IM'ers.
2. The people who don't like it - They'll be buyers

[Razer Rage]

Originally Posted by DavidTheMavin

I know I don't! Once I see a ton of text and a super long landing or squeeze page I say forget it.

Don't IM'ers know that people ready significantly less and have shorter attention spans on the Internet? This is usability 101 from like 1996 here.

I mean just look at the popularity of twitter.

I agree and disagree.

I agree in that I would rather see a shorter sales page, and I think that you can do just as well with a short sales page, as you can with a long sales page.

However, people do not have shorter attention spans on the internet. It is exactly the same.

The only reason they seem to have "shorter" attention spans is because everything on the internet is faster than in real life.

It doesn't matter how long or short your sales copy is. If you are an engaging writer, and know how to entertain your audience, you can make your sales copy as long as you like. Or as short as you like.

[Chance Russell]

Test with long copy, medium copy, short copy. Test with video, video plus short copy, video plus medium, video plus long.

That will tell you what people want.

Personally, If I see a squeeze page or salesletter with nothing but video, I'm gone. I'm not going to sit through your video. Give me the option of reading, I'll stick around.

But that doesn't mean squat in the great scheme of things. That's just my personal preference.

Testing tells the tale.

Chance

[DavidTheMavin]

Originally Posted by Razer Rage

I agree and disagree.

I agree in that I would rather see a shorter sales page, and I think that you can do just as well with a short sales page, as you can with a long sales page.

However, people do not have shorter attention spans on the internet. It is exactly the same.

The only reason they seem to have "shorter" attention spans is because everything on the internet is faster than in real life.

It doesn't matter how long or short your sales copy is. If you are an engaging writer, and know how to entertain your audience, you can make your sales copy as long as you like. Or as short as you like.

I can't find the quote right now, but there's numerous usability studies that show that people tend to read XX% less words online then in print.

If anyone can find the quotes that would be great

[DavidTheMavin]

Ahh here's one, but I think the majority of this comes from Jakob Nielson which is arguable:

"On the average Web page, users have time to read at most 28% of the words during an average visit; 20% is more likely. "

Here's a good blog with the details of the two:

Web copywriting: less is NOT more!


Good point from that blog:
The thing a reader should ‘do’ on a webpage cannot be reached if they must read the WHOLE text first. That is something visitors simply do not do. We have seen that they read something between 20% and 77%, but never 100%. So, when doing textual conversion optimization you must make sure the conversion goal is present on several locations of the page. Otherwise it might not even get noticed;

[Razer Rage]

Originally Posted by DavidTheMavin

I can't find the quote right now, but there's numerous usability studies that show that people tend to read XX% less words online then in print.

If anyone can find the quotes that would be great

Still, the fact is if you are an entertaining writer, then it doesn't matter how long your sales copy is.

But like I said before, I prefer shorter sales copy as much as you do. I'm just saying that you shouldn't believe the "almighty" statistics. They can give you a pretty good idea of what is what, but they don't dictate YOUR results.

[stevenh512]

Originally Posted by netmalls

Just one way to maintain a focused list of people that have qualified themselves as having a connection that is required to use my products.

I'm curious what kind of products you're selling that would "require" me to have a high speed internet connection in order to use them. I can upload and download large files just fine even if it does take a lot longer that it would for you. It might take me an extra hour or so to upload, but other than the time involved I could make a video sales page just as easily as anyone else could. So really, what is it that requires me to have a high speed internet connection, other than the fact that I don't have the patience to sit through half an hour of buffering to see and listen to a sales pitch that I could have read in less than half that time?

Not trying to be insulting or argue with you.. I'm just curious.. and honestly I think a lot of money is being left on the table by people who assume that someone absolutely "needs" a high speed internet connection to buy or use their products. I'm sure there are exceptions to that, but for the most part, I can do anything on dialup that you can do on cable or dsl.. it just takes me a lot longer.. lol

[Mark Riddle]

Steven,

My products are streaming videos

Mark

[jerodrx]

Really someone read a long sales letter or optin page?,
if i see something that looks useful on the sales page,
my next step is to go and see some reviews of the product.

But i really think that there is some psicological stuff involved,
because just try to put yourself on the shoes of the person that
wants you to optin to his list or buy something from you.

Wouldn't you try to explain all the facts about your product?,
and of course you would try to convince everyone that your
report or e-course is the best, so in consecuence they think that
a long sales letter is the best way to do it.

The same is for long videos

[stevenh512]

Originally Posted by netmalls

Steven,

My products are streaming videos

Mark

Ok, in that case it makes perfect sense and that's one of the "exceptions" I had in mind.. lol.. if I don't have the patience to wait for your video "sales letter" to buffer I might not have the patience to wait for your products to buffer either... although I have been known to let a video load "in the background" while I'm in another window doing other things if it's something I'm interested in (or something I paid for), so depending on the videos you might still be leaving a little bit of money on the table, but probably not as much as I'm thinking people are leaving on the table with other products.

[Tsnyder]

For the 8,759th time on this forum... there is no such thing
as sales copy that is too long... sadly, however, there is a lot
of sales copy that is too boring.

If you write interesting stuff people will read it no matter how long it is.

Tsnyder

[jasonl70]

I think most people who argue this really have no clue WHY long sales copy is in fact long.

Oh - and a squeeze page is not the same thing as a sales letter.

[stevenh512]

I don't mind long sales letters and squeeze pages, if they're done right. By that I don't just mean "not boring" and formatted in a way that I can "skim". I also mean it shouldn't take forever to load on a slower connection.

One example of what I'm talking about is some of the huge 50+ product OTO sales pages that are usually designed with so many "tables within tables" that I find myself sitting here for 20 minutes just waiting for the page to load to the point that I can see the "order" and "no thanks" buttons. If I see an OTO I like, I'll buy it, but if it's taking that time to load I've usually already lost interest in whatever you're trying to sell me by the time I can see the bottom of the page.. lol

I've also seen "regular" (non-OTO) sales pages that suffer from the same problem, so much "tables within tables" that they take ages to load and render on a slower connection.

[Traffic-Bug]

I scroll down quickly past the photos, testimonials, to see how much it costs first, then I decide whether to spend the time reading through a long sales page.

[Paul Myers]

Some good points made here. Some of this stuff, though, is hysterical.

Personal opinion: I hate most video in this market. It wastes my time. Too much fluff, and there's no way anyone can talk as fast as the average person reads. I read a tad faster than average.

Some people love video. That's why they're called "markets," not "the population."

Facts: I currently have the longest subscription page I've ever seen for a free newsletter. It converts 45% to 60% of the people who land on it to confirmed subscribers. (Varies with the source.)

The confirmation rate, over the past 30 days, is 86%.

There are 3 forms on the page. One right at the top, one about in the middle, and one at the bottom. All 3 get used. People decide for themselves how much information is enough.

No background, no ebook cover, no photo. No video. Dirt simple page layout. 2767 words of plain black text on a white field.

The book I give away there is not 12 pages, it's 112. My newsletter issues tend to run to more pages than many others have paragraphs. And it's all plain text.

Tell me again why I'd want to use short copy or video to promote that?

So someone with the attention span of a cat on speed subscribes, only to unsubscribe when they realize I'm not dumbing things down? To satisfy the people who insist that I feed them mindless patterns to follow, instead of explaining how to create new ones for themselves?

Screw that.

Do I lose some people this way? Sure. You'll lose some people no matter which way you do anything. The trick is to consciously decide which ones you lose (the ones you don't want) and which ones you keep (the ones you do want). Design your system to that end.

If short copy gets you the people you want, that's what you should use. If video does the trick, smile for the camera.

You tailor your approach to the desired outcome. Consider your prospect, your promise, and the expectations you set. You look for a consistent user experience.

You do not build your marketing systems to satisfy the whims of a forum whiner who wants everything free, perfect, effortless, and NOW DAMMIT!

Unless that's your market.

If that's the case, well... Dog help you. You're going to need it.


Paul

[JayXtreme]

Boo.. Yah! ^ ^ Dude's got it going ON above!

Long Vs Short...

Your own niche markets will decide... and, as if we don't know already... it comes down to:

TESTING for conversion

No amount of forum complaints are gonna have me changing anything about my sales funnel(s).. only raw numbers will...

Peace

Jay

[SimonHarrison]

As usual, these "which is better" type threads always fall on their arse with one camp stipulating how well "x" works for them and the other camp telling us their stats to support the fact that "y" works better.

Only a couple of people have really dialled in on the fact that:

a) It entirely depends on how good the video is.
b) It entirely depends on the market itself
c) It entirely depends on how pre-sold the traffic is that's hitting the site.
d) It entirely depends on the type of traffic and the demographic hitting the site.

And so on and so forth..

It's pretty much pointless moaning about "long videos" when infact some of the most successful video opt in style pages are less than 60 seconds long. You really don't have 60 seconds to watch a video or did you just fancy moaning during your first coffee of the day..

People waste way to much time arguing over minutia or irrelevent semantics in an atmosphere where the semantics are typically moot and the answer actually dwells in nailing down why "x" or "y" is better in a given scenario.

[JamesMSpacey]

I'm for a short and to the point squeeze with enough to pique interest and make the reader want more. After all, you're offering something for nothing. That's the clincher. There's no need to convince someone to take out their credit card or wonder about value. $0.00 says value to me almost every day of the week.

[Paul Myers]

David,

I know I don't! Once I see a ton of text and a super long landing or squeeze page I say forget it.

You are not my prospect. I want you to leave. And you benefit from seeing the long copy, because it saves you time.

Funny how that works, eh?

Don't IM'ers know that people ready significantly less and have shorter attention spans on the Internet? This is usability 101 from like 1996 here.

That's true of a great many people. But it's a long way from universal. You sound like Jakob "lowest common denominator" Nielsen.

Brilliant man. Very funny. Seems to think we're all stupid.

I mean just look at the popularity of twitter.

Yeah. Really. Look at it. That's the end result of your thinking.

Big news is, "What I had for lunch."

Some of us prefer a higher level of discourse than that.


Paul

[jasonl70]

Originally Posted by BlogBrowser

It doesnt matter an iota "WHY long sales copy is in fact long". .

keep thinking that... and best of luck

[Paul Myers]

James,

I'm for a short and to the point squeeze with enough to pique interest and make the reader want more. After all, you're offering something for nothing. That's the clincher. There's no need to convince someone to take out their credit card or wonder about value.

You missed my point, or replied before reading my post.

There are other reasons for long copy on an opt-in page. You set expectations from that first contact. If I plan to deliver in-depth content, is it in my interests, or those of potential subscribers, that I set an expectation of quickie notes?

None of this is rocket science, but it's not as simple "Free? Gimme!," either.


Paul

[John Taylor]

I've said it before and I'll no doubt say it
again..

"Sales copy should be like a ladies skirt..
short enough to be interesting and long
enough to cover the bare essentials"

Personal preferences are meaningless. What
really matters is the behaviour of the people
who you are targeting.

If you look at Paul's first post above you'll see
a golden nugget of advice. Positioning your
optin form to give the prospect some choice
about where in the process they subscribe.

John

[IM Headlines]

Hi david,

I have created many landing pages in the past and I still do. I have to say that you're right, a sales page with a lot of text will not convert that much.

If the visitors that come to your page are targeted, then you don't need tons of text and thousands of words.

I'd like to keep my landing pages small and straight to the point. I also write some good sales text and paste in the testimonials.

Most buyers hate landing pages with a lot of text and content. Just explain the features of the product in short so that you'll make them curious.

Then all you have to do is generate targeted traffic to the squeeze page and watch the cash roll in

[John Taylor]

Originally Posted by a-marketing

I have created many landing pages in the past and I still do. I have to say that you're right, a sales page with a lot of text will not convert that much.

Do you have any test data to back up that
assertion?

My extensive test results show the complete
opposite.

John

[TheAngelGuy]

I hate to ask something so obvious here - but the content seems to go from "sales" to "landing/squeeze" pages, sometimes in the same sentence.

Sales pages would seem to HAVE to be longER - at least as long as necessary to tell you EVERYTHING that you're going to get and the major benefits of using the product and buying now. Takes a few words, I'd say.

But a landing/squeeze page - just enough to pique interest to get the opt-in, if that's not obvious to everyone.

So in future replies to this thread, could the posters please make it more apparent which they are referring to?

Thanks a lot,

- Paul

[IM Headlines]

Originally Posted by John Taylor

Do you have any test data to back up that
assertion?

My extensive test results show the complete
opposite.

John

Do you mean proof? No I don't keep any records sorry :/

Over the years I have found out that people will usually get bored if you write down large chunks of text on the landing page.

I'm not saying that you shouldn't write any text, all I'm saying is that you should keep it brief and straight to the point!

If the product cannot be explained in short, then I suggest that you write down all the text necessary but don't forget to make new paragraphs for every 3 sentences or 4 and use bullet forms etc... so that people can skim read through the content

Hope that helps