Why do IM'ers think that people want to read thousands of words on their squeeze page?

Paul,

He didn't state an opinion, he stated what worked for him with his setup. That's not opinion. An opinion would be " I think if I had a landing page long copy would suck". I presume we are talking about the same guy here, not the OP.

Your "proof" is proof within the context of your situation and your situation only, past that has very little standing as it relates to another niche. It has no nore basis than his "opinion". Do you have the split test reports from your site showing where you tested video in conjunction with various lengths of copy over the general long copy , somehow I'm thinking not, inreality your data isn't very useful.

For the record, some people in IM, who are making millions on top of millions per year have all but done away with long copy on squeeze pages and it works for them, you however are finding it works for you, that makes neither party "wrong" as you put it. It makes it situational. I think we can all manage without being protected from the likes of Frank Kern who also says long copy on squeeze pages doesnt' work for him any more, that doesn't make him wrong , it also doesn't you make you wrong either, it just happens to be the case for him and his situation.

There was a considerable amount of fluff in your previous post which didn't require a response, nor would it have served any point as it would have taken us even further away from the basic discussion here.

There is no right or wrong, you are not defending us poor impressionable warriors from "baseless" inacurate statements. People are making comments about their experience and what has worked for them and it carries just as much validity as your own experience.

At this point your focus seems to be whether "X" posters data is as good as yours, whilst not accepting that your data is ONLY relevent to your situation, that's the crux and why actually I'm not saying the same as you.

I'm not making the case other people are wrong, well perhaps apart from the OP who thinks long copy is dead because twitter is popular.

Perhaps you could lay down exactly what your point is, mine is very simple.

People are not wrong when they say long copy does not work on their squeeze pages.

What exactly at this juncture is your point ?

They get bored ... are you sitting down? ... if you're boring!

TalkBiz News

Not exactly breathless prose, eh? Despite that, over 50% of the people who visit that page subscribe and confirm their subscriptions.

That page is one part of a process. The whole process is made to fit into a continuous and consistent experience for the people who eventually read the book and newsletter that comes out the other side.

If the intended experience would have been better served by a short page, that's what I would have used. I would only have judged that to be the case after testing.

Part of my perfect prospect definition is, "Willing to read and expend effort in thought."

It's exactly the same as the person whose product is streaming video. He'd be foolish to sell it with text alone. It's a Qualifier.


Paul

welcome to the warrior forum

So true Simon.

There is so many variables like where the traffic is coming from, who is the audience and how targeted it is, does the audience already know, like, and trust you, is the video good?

Simon, To you and I, sure, they're absurd.

But I'm not talking about the people "in" the thread. I'm talking about a lot of people who read these things and assume that anything that's not challenged, and which they see repeated often, must be true.

Whether you care to believe it or not, it happens. A lot. See, this is where audio or video helps. Not one person I've ever said that to in person or over the phone has taken it as anything but good humor.

Perhaps you have assumptions about my tone and intent that simply don't apply?

You may dismiss my comments as irrelevant. They may even be so, to you. I can assure you, they are quite relevant to my purpose, which is keeping people from being led into inaction or wrong action by seriously mistaken statements in a professional forum.


Paul

Simon, Except that neither he, nor anyone else supporting his position, offered any. I discounted an unsubstantiated opinion offered as immutable market reality.

If I missed some evidence or data, please point me to it. That's always a possibility. You are not responding, Simon. You're reacting.

The data I presented was in rebuttal to blanket statements. It clearly demonstrates that "Nobody reads that stuff" is untrue, at least some of the time.

I have been very careful throughout this thread to avoid making blanket statements to the effect that anything "won't work at all." You'll note, if you check, that my only comment about video, other than that it works for some things, was clearly labelled as personal opinion.

We are pretty much agreeing on the positions.

You don't have a problem with what I've actually said, Simon. You have a problem with what you think I've said, or the tone in which I've said it. Are we reading the same thread?

There are people throughout this thread saying that "[presentation format X] doesn't work for Y." Those statements are ALL wrong, and could easily mislead people into avoiding potentially profitable techniques and opportunities.

I stated facts, in the form of actual measured data, and put them within a specific context: My "sales" process for my newsletter. I then pointed out that you should look for what works best for you, based on your situation.

I have not ruled out any form of presentation in this thread.

Do you see the difference between that and "They MUST be short, or they won't work?" Show me where I said it was. I am not arguing with anyone who said anything close to that. I'm pointing out the ridiculousness of making broad, blanket statements about what "won't work, anywhere."


Paul

You got it in one, Too many opinions with too many variables. You cant please all of the people all of the time.

Simon, Not the OP, whose comments I addressed individually. And probably not the "same" person, since I was talking about the tone and behavior of folks in the thread in general.

If you're referring to the gentleman who said: ... note that I responded to him individually. That is the ONLY response you should assume applies to him personally.

However, he does fall into the category of people making absolute statements. Note that he didn't put any useful qualifiers in the last part of that comment. He said, "will not convert that much."

Will not.

Not, "don't in my market," or "haven't for me."

Will not.

He is generalizing his experience to the entire world. That's exactly the sort of thing you and I have both argued against, throughout this thread.

My response to John's quoting of him referred to "They," not "He." That is a clue.

My first post in this thread started with, "Some good points made here. Some of this stuff, though, is hysterical." It also included a recommendation to use the tool that works, whether it's short copy, video, or whatever. Yeah. I know. That's why I said pretty much the same thing. Don't argue with me when I'm agreeing with you. A: I very carefully explained why I used long copy, and why I did not use video. Go back and re-read it. It's in there. Your proof that I haven't edited that post is right there, too. If you edit a post, any "Thank you's" that were made before the edits go away. (I really like that feature.)

B: The data I gave was NOT to prove that long copy was better than some other medium, or to suggest that video somehow "doesn't work." It was to prove that long copy can, and does, work well in the right context.

D: For the purposes for which it was presented, the data is not only useful, it's conclusive.

The only negative thing I've said about video in this whole thread was that I hate most of it. That was, as I've mentioned, labeled as a personal opinion, separate from anything else.

I never said it doesn't work. Not once. That's no more likely than Frank coming in here and telling everyone that long copy never works. (Except as a joke. He might do that, if he's had enough Miller Lite. ) Oh?

Not you, certainly, as you appear to have a grasp of the issues involved. There are a lot of people here who don't.

Over the time I've been here, I've seen a lot of people take statements like you see here as being Gospel, and act on wrong information. A LOT of them. Wrong.

I'm pointing out that opinions are not data at all. Experience, while potentially valuable as a guide, is not data.

Data involves numbers. In this case, the measured actions of individual human beings in response to a call to action, stated as aggregate probabilities. The same as I think yours are.

Beware of absolute statements made without proper context.

The most effective media will depend on the market, the process, and the desired result.

Test. Don't accept anyone's statements about what's right for you. Believe your prospects' actions.


Paul

Don't get me started on you, Myers.

Please.



Steve

P.S. Pretty please?

Good point, duly noted.