Here's a tactic i used successfully to get offline webdesign clients - including my sales letter!

[ChrisByrns]

What i did was this:

I searched for local companies, e.g. "nail design denver" and looked at the google maps results (the so-called 10pack).

Every once in a while, you'll spot a company that ain't got a website.. that's your potential new client.

I set up a wordpress blog (cms style) with customized header and design elements on a subdomain ("whatever.mycompany.com").

To fill this sample page with content, i simply write the details of my offer, including a link to the order form or to my companies homepage.

Then i send out the letter to the company.

Note: this is just a quick translation from my original letter, i'm sure you can improve it a LOT.
Also note: The "this is a STEAL.." at the bottom is actually written by hand, not using a font that just looks like it is..


Cheerz,
Chris.

[Mark Brian]

Nice way to give an irresistible offer.

[Paul Ashbrook]

I like your approach. I can see this working with small business people. I especially like the personal touch on the bottom with the handwritten note. Oddly enough, I bet that is the first thing that many people will notice, and then return to the top of the letter to see what is available for a 50% rebate.

[Adaptive]

Thanks, Chris. I like that this approach makes discussing "your portfolio" completely irrelevant.

Regards,
Allen

[GoGetta]

Nice approach Chris and even better with the salesletter so you can pick this up and run with it!

Nice stuff!

GoGetta

[Richard Tunnah]

Thanks Chris. Sometimes it's great to 'think outside the box' with your offline clients. Love the reverse engineering style!

Rich

[iw433]

Hey that is an excellent idea. I was working on something like that your letter just pulls it all together for me. Thanks a bunch.

[Noah Fleming]

Are you actually building unique websites in advance? What's your time spent to finish a site for the letter purposes and what's your response rate?

letter looks good.

[LMC]

It would be interesting to see your ROI on this method.

Meaning, hours spent building the site, from a designer point of view, to make a header and turn a wordpress blog into something unique, it would take me 3 hours.

That is $240 worth of my time.

If I received a 1 in 10 conversion, I've done 27 hours of work, $2,160 worth of my time.

All that for the $120 with the 50% rebate, and $20/M for hosting and maintence.

I think you see where I am going with this.

This is a great method, but how can you make it more efficient?
Also, if the business does not have a website, you should BUY their domain name.

This gives them another reason to work with you and only you. Otherwise they get some crappy, www.mynewbusinessonline.com with some other designer instead of www.mynewbusiness.com

[ChrisByrns]

Originally Posted by Noah Fleming

Are you actually building unique websites in advance? What's your time spent to finish a site for the letter purposes

Yes i'm actually building sites in advance. Takes me an hour to do that, using my own custom wp template (think of something like the flexibility theme) where i just need to change the header/footer/background/colors/menu style.. (creating a pro looking header in photoshop, for example, takes me about 20 minutes)

Originally Posted by Noah Fleming

and what's your response rate?

Using this approach i got 3 clients from 25 letters. They pay $79 per month for hosting, maintenance and the domain.. Again i hear the voices "you're whoring yourself out!" - just like in my thread about my hooker business, LOL! But times are tough, and small companies are hesistant to shell out 250 bucks per month.. at least over here.

Originally Posted by Noah Fleming

letter looks good.

Thanks!

[ChrisByrns]

Oh, and another thing about the ROI.. creating a professional site for a small business doesn't mean that you have to go all crazy and do a high-tech, flashy, stuffed with all the latest gizmos kind of site. Most small biz owners are perfectly content with a clean looking, user-friendly design, showcasing their services, products, prices and contact info. Usually, while i'm at it i throw in some logo styles (vector/illustrator).. again, basic stuff.

[LMC]

Awesome!

It seems as you have everything set... I smell backend services, start some SEO packages on there.


Get some college students to do what you do on the Wp-template, crank out 300 sites and get 36 more clients lol

[TimCastleman]

Using this approach i got 3 clients from 25 letters. They pay $79 per month for hosting, maintenance and the domain.. Again i hear the voices "you're whoring yourself out!" - just like in my thread about my hooker business, LOL! But times are tough, and small companies are hesistant to shell out 250 bucks per month.. at least over here.

It is a shame you have such a self limiting belief. I guess I should return the $1,875 worth of checks that were waiting for me when I got back from my honeymoon as a result of offline marketing.

The only person that limits you is you. If you can show how you are an investment and not an expense then business owners have no problem shelling out cash.

Congrats on the victory, now win the war with a bigger fee each time.

Tim

[Andrew E.]

We do that sometimes - and it really works in most cases. The client loves to see their site completed even before they thought about it - in fact, they don't even have to think.

[ChrisByrns]

Originally Posted by TimCastleman

It is a shame you have such a self limiting belief. (...)
The only person that limits you is you.

I don't fully agree. I have talked to a LOT of small business owners in the past few months and the general consensus was, they DO see the value of my services but just can't afford a premium fee of, say 200 or 300 bucks per month. So, for me, it was "adapt or die" and IMHO - having 3 clients at $79/mo beats having zero clients at $300/mo.

[TimCastleman]

Chris -

It is your business you run it how you want to. Enjoy the $79, I'll take my $450 checks.

If you are talking to business owners who can't afford you then it is time to talk with the ones who can.

A nail salon owner can't afford you but I bet a car repair shop can. What about a cosmetic dentist or a laser eye care center.

Get a better class of clients and charge what you are worth.

Also think about it like this if you get one client at $300 that means you are getting paid the same as 4 clients $79. Who do you think you'll be able to service better 1 or 4?

Best of luck to you seriously, and congrats on the good work.

Tim

[ChrisByrns]

Originally Posted by TimCastleman

Chris -
If you are talking to business owners who can't afford you then it is time to talk with the ones who can.

A nail salon owner can't afford you but I bet a car repair shop can. What about a cosmetic dentist or a laser eye care center.

Get a better class of clients and charge what you are worth.

I fully agree with you here, and thanks for the tip, re: laser eye care - totally forgot about those, there's even two of 'em in my quarter! ..and i know for sure they don't have a website.

[tonyscott]

Hey Chris, kudos to you. I understand the position of others re. fees but you're raking in money every day in a variety of markets. Ramping that up to serious income is way easier than trying to charge top dollar from the outset.

For me, your posts are inspirational, and I am getting seriously engaged in the offline market myself.

cheers

Tony

[Kevin AKA Hubcap]

Tony

I have to disagree. I think it's easier to charge the higher fees from the start.

We might be conditioned to think that we have to start small and work our way up but its not the smartest business decision.

I totally understand starting with small fees but give this a try. What ever fee you're were going to charge...double it and see what happens.

Kevin

[TimCastleman]

Kevin -

Thanks for beating me to the punch when it comes to fees. I am putting the finishing touches on my offline marketing sales program and you will get much farther, much faster by charging value based fees than being the cheapest guy in town.

Another way to look at it -

Cheap fees don't get you nice checks like this:

[Melody]

First of all - kudos to Chris for TAKING ACTION!! He's already 10 steps ahead of the majority of the population.

And I agree with Tony - it's easier to start small and build both your portfolio and your confidence first. It's easier to sell a high ticket item when they are NOT your first customer. And yes, I do speak from experience!

You are off to a great start and have a solid foundation to build on, and your prices will increase as you enter new markets, I have no doubt!

Go for it!

Melody

[Kevin AKA Hubcap]

Originally Posted by TimCastleman

Kevin -

Thanks for beating me to the punch when it comes to fees. I am putting the finishing touches on my offline marketing sales program and you will get much farther, much faster by charging value based fees than being the cheapest guy in town.

Tim

I think were conditioned to think like that. I really like what Dan Kennedy said....paraphrasing....'when it comes time to tell the client your fee, hold your breath, keep a straight face and quadruple it.'

I don't know about you but I don't want to compete on price I want to compete on the value that I can provide.

If I can produce more than I cost I'm a good investment. There is no good or bad there is only profitable or not profitable.

Kevin

[Mark Riddle]

Chris,

Regardless of what other people think, YOU are in charge of your business.

There is nothing wrong with having an established portfolio for clients to see when you talk with them.

Just don't get in the trap of selling commodities (websites, autoresponders etc) focus on business building.

Congrats, you made a wonderful start !

Mark Riddle

[Melody]

Originally Posted by Kevin AKA Hubcap

Tim

I think were conditioned to think like that. I really like what Dan Kennedy said....paraphrasing....'when it comes time to tell the client your fee, hold your breath, keep a straight face and quadruple it.'

I don't know about you but I don't want to compete on price I want to compete on the value that I can provide.

If I can produce more than I cost I'm a good investment. There is no good or bad there is only profitable or not profitable.

Kevin

You weren't the only one - I sell high priced services in a very competitive industry and have for many years - very successfully. The point though is that we have the background and confidence to do that now.....but you probably did not dive right in at that level either.

Chris is just starting out and he is doing very well and he will increase his prices, I am sure. BUT you can't tell him what to charge without knowing where he is either - Denver is a pretty broad economic 'neighborhood' - that is not realistic.

You can charge a nailshop in Beverly Hills a bundle more than you could a nail shop in a suburb of Cincinnati......and that's just the reality of the demographic.

[bizwebman]

Hi Chris

Thanks for sharing this, it has come at a very appropriate time.

Grahame

[Scott Prock]

Thank you for such an interesting discussion. I myself have been considering putting my graphic and webdesign skills to use. I have never been good at marketing myself, in fact over the years I have been asked several times what I would charge for a website. My reply was always "I haven't got that far" ... this thread is an inspiration to just get out there and get it done.

I once worked for a professional photographer as an assistant, he's one of the best in my area, and I remember when he used to charge $2000 just to book him for a wedding. This was over 10 years ago BTW. He got to a point where he was getting tired of the stress and fast paced environment he created and decided to increase his booking fee to $5000 hoping to slow his business down a bit. He figured he would end up with fewer clients that pay a higher price.

What he quickly learned is he became even busier and more sought after. Last I heard his calendar is booked out a year in advance and he charges $10k just to book the day.

I know for a fact that he would not have been as successful starting out at $10k, his experience and reputation has allowed him to increase his fees.

... Scott

[chrisnegro]

What free WP Themes do you recommend Chris? Do you have a link you care to share or one that you can PM with?

Cheers,

Chris Negro

[MarkR]

Chris,

He mentioned the flexibility theme. Here it is - Flexibility Theme for WordPress

That's the one I use a lot! What's great about it for this type of application is it's flexibility (pardon the pun). It's incredibly customizable, very easy to change colors, drop in new header, change backgrounds, play with CSS kind of stuff, and so many other options you can't believe it. It's real easy to make 10 sites look totally different, all using the same theme. All without having to learn the admin interface to 10 different themes!

Mark

[annabanks]

Great post and tool especially for a newbie. I also agree with Melody, "Kudos for TAKING ACTION!! You definitely are 10 steps ahead of the majority of the population.

[tonyscott]

Originally Posted by Kevin AKA Hubcap

Tony

I have to disagree. I think it's easier to charge the higher fees from the start.

We might be conditioned to think that we have to start small and work our way up but its not the smartest business decision.

I totally understand starting with small fees but give this a try. What ever fee you're were going to charge...double it and see what happens.

Kevin

Hi Kevin, whatever works, works and as Melody mentioned geography comes into it.

I just like the way Chris actually goes about building a business that he can grow quickly, with residual income as the kicker.

Personally, I doubled my fees after I'd built half a dozen sites for clients sites AND increased my monthly charge by 33%.

My ultimate aim (and the direction I am currently moving in) is to work with just 37 clients on a monthly retainer. The actual price point of the site becomes less important then and providing an ongoing professional service takes over.

Tony

[tonyscott]

Originally Posted by TimCastleman

Kevin -

Thanks for beating me to the punch when it comes to fees. I am putting the finishing touches on my offline marketing sales program and you will get much farther, much faster by charging value based fees than being the cheapest guy in town.

Don't know why you put that image up Tim, doesn't do anything for your credibility.

Being the cheapest will almost certainly get you work, getting paid for a value based proposition BEFORE you have proven to the business owner that he'll get a positive roi on his investment is a much harder sell - UNLESS you can demonstrate that you've achieved it for a previous client.


Tony

[Jesus Perez]

Make your life easier. Setup Wordpress MU. You'll cut your Wordpress setup time in half.
You can also ""rent out" the admin login info so they can make their own edits.

[Glenn Leader]

Originally Posted by BlueSquares

Make your life easier. Setup Wordpress MU. You'll cut your Wordpress setup time in half.
%< snipped

The job can be done in seconds if you avoid using WP and start using HTML templates. I'm in the middle of recording some videos that show how to find clients and build them a starter website within one minute. Simple copy and paste, then upload.

HTH

Glenn

[TimCastleman]

Don't know why you put that image up Tim, doesn't do anything for your credibility.

Being the cheapest will almost certainly get you work, getting paid for a value based proposition BEFORE you have proven to the business owner that he'll get a positive roi on his investment is a much harder sell - UNLESS you can demonstrate that you've achieved it for a previous client.

Tony

Tony:

I have to disagree with you there friend.I put up the check because I am believer you should never take advice from people on the sidelines. You guys want to offer advice and a lot of it is good - that's great. But I make my living from offline marketing and have the checks to prove it. If you are taking advice from someone who has never made money or worse put their own money on the line with something then it can be dangerous.

Not to mention it is a great proof element. There are plenty of offline people here but how many of them can produce proof that what they do is working? Something to think about.

And again being the cheapest will get you work - another cheap gig. There is a better way.

All my best Tony.

Tim

[willies]

This is actually one of the ways that a small business owner can start out and grow eventually. It does not matter the ROI for now. As you keep at it, others will also take up your offer and if your work is very good and produces results for your clients, they can begin to work for you by telling other companies or people about you.

So keep at it.

[dejoliet31]

Chris,

This is a great idea. I have been thinking along the same lines since I deal with mostly small business. I agree with Glenn, however, that static pages are an easier way to go, at least until the owner signs up. Then I would consider WP etc.

Thanks for sharing your methodology.

[Glenn Leader]

Originally Posted by dejoliet31

Chris,

This is a great idea. I have been thinking along the same lines since I deal with mostly small business. I agree with Glenn, however, that static pages are an easier way to go, at least until the owner signs up. Then I would consider WP etc.

Thanks for sharing your methodology.

Agreed. The static HTML templates are there to simply get the communication with potential clients started. You can then offer them, a whole range of services and products after you've discovered what their individual business needs are.

Glenn

[LMC]

Glenn,

Thats what I do.

[Melody]

Originally Posted by TimCastleman

Tony:

I have to disagree with you there friend.I put up the check because I am believer you should never take advice from people on the sidelines. You guys want to offer advice and a lot of it is good - that's great. But I make my living from offline marketing and have the checks to prove it. If you are taking advice from someone who has never made money or worse put their own money on the line with something then it can be dangerous.

Not to mention it is a great proof element. There are plenty of offline people here but how many of them can produce proof that what they do is working? Something to think about.

And again being the cheapest will get you work - another cheap gig. There is a better way.

All my best Tony.

Tim

Tim -

You may find this hard to believe - but there are many of us here that are quite capable of providing financial proof like you did - and a LOT more.

We simply choose not to. I consider what I make to be my business - unless your name is Uncle Sam - I don't feel any driving need to share my income with you just to share my experience!

But I learned something today - that advice is not valid unless I can show a check to go with it!

Never in a million years, folks, never, ever!!

Melody

[TimCastleman]

Melody -

Thanks for your thoughts. My check is no different than the one that Maria or Chris have put on here. We're just showing that making good money with offline marketing is possible. I am glad that he has made money with offline marketing BUT it saddens me to see people leave large sums of money on the table and based their price on fees and not value.

As far as taking advice. You can take from anyone but I prefer to take my advice from people who have been there done that. There are plenty of people here who are 10 to 100 to 1000 times more successful than me. Good for them. I just made it my choice to take advice from people in the trenches with money invested, not sideline people.

For instance I am training in a fighting discipline to get back in shape. When I picked my training facility I didn't just go with the guy who said he was the best in town - nope, I went with a guy who is a documented 20 time national champion in China. I want to work with someone who has PROVEN results in the area I am interested in learning more about.

Finally, as a copywriter I am a big believer in PROOF. If you say you can do this or that I want proof first. So when I tell people I can get them several hundred dollars or more per client I show them checks - not just words.

Just a preference, that's all.

Hope all is well. Have a great weekend.

Tim

[honestbizpro]

Originally Posted by TimCastleman

Kevin -

Thanks for beating me to the punch when it comes to fees. I am putting the finishing touches on my offline marketing sales program and you will get much farther, much faster by charging value based fees than being the cheapest guy in town.

Another way to look at it -

Cheap fees don't get you nice checks like this:

Originally Posted by Melody

First of all - kudos to Chris for TAKING ACTION!! He's already 10 steps ahead of the majority of the population.

And I agree with Tony - it's easier to start small and build both your portfolio and your confidence first. It's easier to sell a high ticket item when they are NOT your first customer. And yes, I do speak from experience!

You are off to a great start and have a solid foundation to build on, and your prices will increase as you enter new markets, I have no doubt!

Go for it!

Melody

Originally Posted by tonyscott

Don't know why you put that image up Tim, doesn't do anything for your credibility.

Being the cheapest will almost certainly get you work, getting paid for a value based proposition BEFORE you have proven to the business owner that he'll get a positive roi on his investment is a much harder sell - UNLESS you can demonstrate that you've achieved it for a previous client.


Tony

Hey thanks for the great creative posting Chris.

But the resulting dialogue is also great.

I say Overdeliver, keep a re-curring payment element, and keep the door open for up-sells.

As far as pricing.....everyone wants a bargain, but at the same time people often do equate pricing with quality as well.

[superstylefactor]

good read, new insight to the possibilities of IM! i like the way you reached out to the non internet-savvy market from inside the web!

[JP Wilson]

Regardless of the price-point, it's a great overall strategy! I'm inclined to charge a lot more for this kind of work, but that's just my personal preference. Like Melody already pointed out, the fact that you're already out in the market actively DOING this stuff and not just theorizing about it, distinguishes you from a vast majority of the pack. Hopefully, with the more clients you get, you will also acquire the added confidence that you have the ability to charge more and actually get the price that you ultimately deserve for your efforts.

Cheers,

Patrick

[ebook]

how do you guys bill the clients? like if it's recurring do you make them pay for 12 months up front or do you remind them to pay you every month? how do you get paid: check paypal, etc?

thanks

[Micheal Perkins]

Originally Posted by TimCastleman

Chris -

It is your business you run it how you want to. Enjoy the $79, I'll take my $450 checks.

If you are talking to business owners who can't afford you then it is time to talk with the ones who can.

A nail salon owner can't afford you but I bet a car repair shop can. What about a cosmetic dentist or a laser eye care center.

Get a better class of clients and charge what you are worth.

Also think about it like this if you get one client at $300 that means you are getting paid the same as 4 clients $79. Who do you think you'll be able to service better 1 or 4?

Best of luck to you seriously, and congrats on the good work.

Tim

I'd rather have the $79 per month than the $450 one-time payment. Same amount of work, but let's say you get 10 clients this month and 5 the next.

That means after one month you have $4,500, and I would have $790. But then I'm going to get the $790 again next month, and the month after, and the month after, and it'll keep going.

So the client that made you a one time fee of $450, is going to make me $948. And it will continue to make that for me year after year.

Ideally a combination of both would be best. A higher initial price point of maybe $200 or more for set-up, with a monthly fee of $79 after that.

Just my 2 cents.

[TimCastleman]

Micheal -

That hosting is what you should be charging for each month, not just a one time payment. Also you example doesn't mention the fact that I am going to get more clients every month just like the other person is.

So all I have to do is get one $300 client a month on reoccurring billing to equal about 4 at $79.

The real goal is to show them how big of a value and what a great investment you are. That along with a few other secrets is what gets you the bigger fees.

And I have been at the Pulse and a paycheck stage early in my career. Nothing wrong with living in the basement, you just don't want to retire there.

Off to watch hockey.

Tim

[ebook]

how do you guys bill the clients? like if it's recurring do you make them pay for 12 months up front or do you remind them to pay you every month? how do you get paid: check paypal, etc?

thanks

[MarkR]

ebook,

The best, hands-off approach for my money is a recurring monthly payment set up in PayPal. It's like a membership that goes on and on until they cancel it. And you get notified when they cancel, if they do.

Mark

[Micheal Perkins]

Originally Posted by TimCastleman

Micheal -

That hosting is what you should be charging for each month, not just a one time payment. Also you example doesn't mention the fact that I am going to get more clients every month just like the other person is.

So all I have to do is get one $300 client a month on reoccurring billing to equal about 4 at $79.

The real goal is to show them how big of a value and what a great investment you are. That along with a few other secrets is what gets you the bigger fees.

And I have been at the Pulse and a paycheck stage early in my career. Nothing wrong with living in the basement, you just don't want to retire there.

Off to watch hockey.

Tim

All I can say is WOW Tim.

After reading this I have to tell you I completely misunderstood your post. I thought your fee was a one-time fee. $300 a month recurring, WOW! I was obviously thinking small time in this regard, because I was thinking $79 was fairly high.

I'm still working on getting out of the mindset of marketers online trying to get everything for low ball prices. I realize offline business owners are used to paying large sums of money for something that will get them less results than we can get them. I just still keep reverting back to thinking along the lines of marketing online, rather than offline.

Thanks for pointing that out. If you don't mind revealing, what services do you offer for that price every month? If you don't want to share here, would you be willing to send me a PM? Just curious what you're doing and how much time you spend each month.

Mike

[Micheal Perkins]

Originally Posted by TimCastleman

Micheal -

That hosting is what you should be charging for each month, not just a one time payment. Also you example doesn't mention the fact that I am going to get more clients every month just like the other person is.

So all I have to do is get one $300 client a month on reoccurring billing to equal about 4 at $79.

The real goal is to show them how big of a value and what a great investment you are. That along with a few other secrets is what gets you the bigger fees.

And I have been at the Pulse and a paycheck stage early in my career. Nothing wrong with living in the basement, you just don't want to retire there.

Off to watch hockey.

Tim

All I can say is WOW Tim.

After reading this I have to tell you I completely misunderstood your post. I thought your fee was a one-time fee. $300 a month recurring, WOW! I was obviously thinking small time in this regard, because I was thinking $79 was fairly high.

I'm still working on getting out of the mindset of marketers online trying to get everything for low ball prices. I realize offline business owners are used to paying large sums of money for something that will get them less results than we can get them. I just still keep reverting back to thinking along the lines of marketing online, rather than offline.

Thanks for pointing that out. If you don't mind revealing, what services do you offer for that price every month? If you don't want to share here, would you be willing to send me a PM? Just curious what you're doing and how much time you spend each month.

Mike