So you're mad at a client who didn't pay promptly..

Profile picture of the author PerformanceMan by
Do you do what Frank Jonen did?

I think lots of people like this idea, but then back off because of the potential ramifications. Personally I'd never resort to something like this.

What do you think?
#internet marketing #client #mad #pay #promptly

  • Profile picture of the author Diice
    I think this is a childish move.

    The agency were stupid enough to do the work without receiving the payment first. Some people are just stupid. Do the work they have paid you for, not the work they 'might' pay you for.

    The agency is simply bitter for a mistake which it has made, both parties are in the wrong.
  • Profile picture of the author butters
    I understand they made the mistake about not getting paid upfront and continuing to do work for them even tho they were still owed 6 months worth. I guarantee that company will pay them now because they have been made out to look like idiots (Which by the sounds of it, they are). Sometimes you got to take it to the extreme to get paid, it isn't like they missed an invoice by a day, they were owed 6 months.
  • Profile picture of the author Daniel Evans
    Payment terms aren't specified. We don't know if the situation rides upon the designer / agency having been paid an initial down payment.

    I think for a person to resort to such a measure they must be pretty confident that the client is indeed trying to pull a fast one. Note that there were multiple invoices sent.

    Freelancers are taking a very firm stance nowadays and already many are together in protest over these type of issues.

    If you don't pay your £3 train fare in my town and you're caught, you get your face slapped on a nice big "named and shamed" poster on every station platform.

    I don't see why the case of unpaid invoices should be any different.
  • Profile picture of the author PerformanceMan
    Originally Posted by Michael_Lee View Post

    I think this is a childish move.

    The agency were stupid enough to do the work without receiving the payment first. Some people are just stupid. Do the work they have paid you for, not the work they 'might' pay you for.

    The agency is simply bitter for a mistake which it has made, both parties are in the wrong.
    For sure he lost his cool. That alone could hurt his chance with major accounts moving forward.
  • Profile picture of the author Diice
    I'm not saying he should get away with not paying, im saying that the agency was foolish enough to operate on a basis that they did the work before getting paid.

    In my opinion it is one of the most stupid and overused practices, even with a down payment, you have absolutely no idea if you are going to get your money for the work you have done.

    If you are going to work like this then at least draw up some form of legal contract stating clearly the rules and price of the agreement.
  • Profile picture of the author PerformanceMan
    Originally Posted by Michael_Lee View Post

    I'm not saying he should get away with not paying, im saying that the agency was foolish enough to operate on a basis that they did the work before getting paid.

    In my opinion it is one of the most stupid and overused practices, even with a down payment, you have absolutely no idea if you are going to get your money for the work you have done.

    If you are going to work like this then at least draw up some form of legal contract stating clearly the rules and price of the agreement.
    No question. I've always demanded pre-payment and have avoided issues like this for years.
  • Profile picture of the author onSubie
    I'm wondering if the design company could get in trouble since they do not legally own the domain they "hacked".

    Whatever the justification for hacking it.

    If I hired a painter to paint my business, do they have the right to come back and vandalize my business and prevent paying customers from entering because I was late on paying my bill?

    Mahlon
  • Profile picture of the author PerformanceMan
    Originally Posted by onSubie View Post

    I'm wondering if the design company could get in trouble since they do not legally own the domain they "hacked".

    Whatever the justification for hacking it.

    If I hired a painter to paint my business, do they have the right to come back and vandalize my business and prevent paying customers from entering because I was late on paying my bill?

    Mahlon
    I was thinking along the same lines. It seems that whatever agreement he had with the other company it does not give him broad rights to alter the website content.
  • Profile picture of the author Daniel Evans
    Originally Posted by onSubie View Post

    If I hired a painter to paint my business, do they have the right to come back and vandalize my business and prevent paying customers from entering because I was late on paying my bill?

    Mahlon
    I'm not sure that's a fitting analogy since the website is basically everything the designer built - not simply a part of the business.

    Maybe a valid point about the domain though...
  • Profile picture of the author Farish
    Usually when I do work like this I use a contract with 3 payments.

    First payment is the down payment. I start the proof and design phase.

    Second payment occurs when a concept and proof is agreed upon.

    Third payment occurs and then the website is delivered to their servers.

    It is not that hard folks.
  • Profile picture of the author Diice
    Originally Posted by Farish View Post

    Usually when I do work like this I use a contract with 3 payments.

    First payment is the down payment. I start the proof and design phase.

    Second payment occurs when a concept and proof is agreed upon.

    Third payment occurs and then the website is delivered to their servers.

    It is not that hard folks.
    And you dont draw up any sort of contract?

    If this is for large sums of money i would strongly recommend some sort of contract.
  • Profile picture of the author Raydal
    Web hosting companies do the same thing all the time.
    Except that their replacement websites may have a kinder
    message.

    -Ray Edwards
  • Profile picture of the author Diice
    Originally Posted by Raydal View Post

    Web hosting companies do the same thing all the time.
    Except that their replacement websites may have a kinder
    message.

    -Ray Edwards
    As far as i am aware Hosting companies take upfront payments?

    They will only take down the website if the user does not renew their subscription.
  • Profile picture of the author Farish
    Originally Posted by Michael_Lee View Post

    And you dont draw up any sort of contract?

    If this is for large sums of money i would strongly recommend some sort of contract.
    That payment breakdown is part of the contract, taking a look different ones I have written up in the past the contract has been no fewer than 2 pages.

    The terms I spelled out was more for simplicity sake.

    For example in the design phase of things, I will deliver the customer 3 proofs(designs or revisions) based on our conversations of how the website should look like.

    If after the 3rd proof they want a dramatic change I will charge them an additional fee and I spell that out clearly.


    Part of the whole point of that proof concept is that if the Client is force to decide to move forward or not or pay an additional fee to make changes.

    This is more for my protection than the clients.

    There are some clients out there who no matter how many different point of views you give them, they can not make up their mind. It is a time waster to deliver 15 proofs and be rejected because the person cant decide.

    But one of the most important lessons I learned long ago,

    sometimes the Client wants you to tell them what to do.
  • Profile picture of the author Raydal
    Originally Posted by Michael_Lee View Post

    As far as i am aware Hosting companies take upfront payments?

    They will only take down the website if the user does not renew their subscription.
    Not all. Many hosting companies offer first month free.
    1and1.com even had a first 3 years free deal some
    years ago.

    -Ray Edwards
  • Profile picture of the author FirstSocialApps
    I have taken websites and apps down completely for non payment. This seems very fair, you dont pay me I will take my work back. But replacing a website with a 'letter' seems to be to much. There is no need to make a conflict between you and your customer public like that. It shows a lack of professionalism and I would not work with a company that would be so unprofessional.

    So a recap: A) take the site down completely --> OK (nothing wrong with taking work back that wasnt paid for) B) jack your customers domain and put up what shouldnt be public information for everyone to see --> super uncool and childish.
  • Profile picture of the author John Romaine
    I asked to be paid in full before I start.

    Otherwise I wont take on the work.

    Not interested.
  • Profile picture of the author Diice
    Originally Posted by John Romaine View Post

    I asked to be paid in full before I start.

    Otherwise I wont take on the work.

    Not interested.
    Thats the way it should be.
  • Profile picture of the author ronrule
    Very poor way to handle a non-paying client. From the sound of the message, they weren't even using most of the work he had done - perhaps because it wasn't up to par, and that's why they weren't paying. Guys who go rogue like that make it that much more difficult for other independent designers to get clients, actions like this drive customers to larger firms.
  • Profile picture of the author SeoDemon
    what a nasty thing to do! I'm not sure if anyone could hire him again.

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