DON'T "personalize" w/pics if you look of school age.

[lemonarian]

I agree, to an extent... Personally I use it as a branding point. I'm already getting a lot of attention in our little community and I'm a moderator of a pretty darn big (not WF big though, but of a decent size) IM/Aff mktg forum... and I turn 15 next week.

I don't think it's that big of a problem... I'm like getting emails from people in their forties 'amazed' at my age and then asking for advice.

[paulwaltz]

I think people are waaaay too quick to judge someone the moment they see them. I am a 17 year old marketeer just learning how everything works, but I already have a SEM blog running for people to learn with me. I have not uploaded a profile picture for any of my profiles yet though for fear that people will see it run. It's a shame that I have to hide my appearance that way. Maybe I can stylize my pic is photoshop or something. :P

[Hililuud]

Originally Posted by Michael Oksa

To be clear, my point is that a youthful appearance may actually build credibility in other people's minds.

I think you're projecting your personal opinions into a sweeping piece of advice that may not be true in all cases.

You are right that it's not just the sales message that gets people to buy, that's why I added that if you do use a pic it should make you look trustworthy and/or friendly.

You have to make your own judgment calls, and if a person's age enters into that equation for you, then that's up to you.

i cannot stand serial optimist, it seems like everyone wants to defend the world of money making, lets just be real everyting about IM isn't fair, and isn't exactly positive.

One of the nice things about the Internet is that it doesn't discriminate - if you do the right things you can do well.

Okay, enough BS. What it comes down to is this: People of ANY age can have something to contribute to the world of IM. If you're taken back three steps because someone looks young, then you do. I think it's foolish, but that's just my opinion on the matter.

All the best,
Michael

Your opinion is just as good as angels, it would take a scientific experiment to really be sure what age, race, sex plays in credibility.

All angelguy is doing is suggesting that a younger pic might affect customers judgements there really is nothing to disagree with since niether has any facts to base it on rather than personal experience (personal experience is one persons view, your disagreeing as if you know what everyone's point of view).

Some images are going to have an affect on credibility, and to deny that isn't being reasonable.

Lets not all come here and try to be serial optimist, lets not defend IM because in order to defend there has to be something that can be attacked or ligetament. Everything IM isn't positive or fair, and to suggest that it is is ridiculous because LIfe isn't fair, neither could anything in it be fair.

[Michael Oksa]

Originally Posted by Hililuud

Your opinion is just as good as angels, it would take a scientific experiment to really be sure what age, race, sex plays in credibility.

All angelguy is doing is suggesting that a younger pic might affect customers judgements there really is nothing to disagree with since niether has any facts to base it on rather than personal experience (personal experience is one persons view, your disagreeing as if you know what everyone's point of view).

Some images are going to have an affect on credibility, and to deny that isn't being reasonable.

Lets not all come here and try to be serial optimist, lets not defend IM because in order to defend there has to be something that can be attacked or ligetament. Everything IM isn't positive or fair, and to suggest that it is is ridiculous because LIfe isn't fair, neither could anything in it be fair.

Please read all of my comments. I said much of what you just said. It's all opinion, and I said a picture may or may not matter, and that the only way to tell was to test it. Furthermore, i don't see where I said IM, or life, was fair.

That's at least the second time someone put words into my mouth in this thread. I understand it happens, but don't come in blazing if you don't know what I have said. No big deal, but geez!

All the best,
Michael

[Thomas Belknap]

Originally Posted by JayXtreme

Not true... John Taylor is a little bit smarter than me... or so his pic says

Jay, those posts of inspiration and intelligence were not made by John. It was really his spaniel dog.

[lemonarian]

Originally Posted by paulwaltz

I think people are waaaay too quick to judge someone the moment they see them. I am a 17 year old marketeer just learning how everything works, but I already have a SEM blog running for people to learn with me. I have not uploaded a profile picture for any of my profiles yet though for fear that people will see it run. It's a shame that I have to hide my appearance that way. Maybe I can stylize my pic is photoshop or something. :P

Yeah that's what I thought first too. I didn't reveal my age until a couple months into the game when I had already established credibility etc... worked out fine

[Mubarak Waseem]

Same here.

[Hililuud]

Originally Posted by Michael Oksa

Please read all of my comments. I said much of what you just said. It's all opinion, and I said a picture may or may not matter, and that the only way to tell was to test it. Furthermore, i don't see where I said IM, or life, was fair.

That's at least the second time someone put words into my mouth in this thread. I understand it happens, but don't come in blazing if you don't know what I have said. No big deal, but geez!

All the best,
Michael

It shouldn't ahve taken thr3 post to realize it.

[Adaptive]

I will tell you that I'm 39 and am told that I look like Jon Bon Jovi in his mid-20's

Well, even back then, hadn't Jon already seen a million faces n' rocked 'em all? Who would be more credible than that for instructions about ridin' the steel horse down by the docks, where yer baby's bad medicine puts ya on the edge of a broken heart! Go ahead and put up that pic, if that's what it takes.

Regards,
Allen

P.S. (No pic for me 'cuz I been 'round the block but I look young enuff to break yer heart, babe.)

[Suthan M]

I will tell you a personal experience.

One should not reveal their age unless they're successful . There is some stigma involved with this "age revelation".

When i first started, i didnt reveal my age due to the fact that i might be looked down. Its cool if you're in the IM society as the younger you are, the better and the more genius they think you are...

... But how about if you're dealing with non MMO crowd.. like gardening?

Think your uncle jack will like a 15 year old smartass charging him 47bucks for a gardening tips book? Think again. He will point a specific finger (the specific finger which you're thinking) and ask you to take a walk.

Well, now i dont have that problem, as i am relatively of "old age " :-) and a bit successful in my own right.. but yeah, there you go, from a guy who have been in the situation before.

[grover69]

Lem, you are fifteen? I am not kidding..but I had no idea. I'm a middle aged guy..38. It takes a lot of work to keep up on tech. But I do because that is my job and I love it. I often surprise the younger tech guys I know with some new "thing" that I think is important. Age shouldn't matter. But I often do the opposite (ageism, I know!). If some "old" guy is touting some new technology I often become mistrustful. Sad, but true.

[daj]

If some people don't want to trust that I can help them with any of the ebooks or services I happen to offer because they are insecure, I look too young, or I'm not as experienced as someone who's been in the field for centuries. Then they are welcomed to go somewhere else. Age doesn't always make someone more experienced, and a loss of a potential customer won't affect you if you're in a mindest of abundance.

[jmidas]

Originally Posted by lemonarian

Yeah that's what I thought first too. I didn't reveal my age until a couple months into the game when I had already established credibility etc... worked out fine

That's just it - once you have a track record, you get to go from "young dumbass" to "whiz kid" in most people's minds. Doesn't mean you are any smarter after you have that track record, but people will look at you differently.

[Loren Woirhaye]

There are other factors too - the guy who says "I quit school
and now I'm an internet marketer" doesn't impress me, because
finishing school shows you finish what you start - the guy/girl
who is young and sharp might.

It's true that older folks may be perceived as having more business
gravitas - and I know for sure that sometimes there is a battle
of egos when a much older prospect is struggling with the notion
that a much younger marketer has information and expertise
the older fellow wants - there is somewhat of a tendency to
distrust the youngsters among a segment of the senior population -
but at the same time you'll make affinity sales based on people
relating to you. My being open open my values and interests
has been money-in-the-bank all the way - a lot of dudes would
love to work from home and alternate between marketing and
making music all day.

[ic7]

Originally Posted by TMG Enterprises

I'm not saying that it's right to judge by age (or any other external factor) but just because it's not right doesn't mean it doesn't happen. Whether or not this impacts sales is a matter of testing.

Tina G

Good point, Tina. I would love to see this split tested.

[Andrew Maule]

I'm not going to sift through this thread to see if this has been said or not, but what's the alternative? I think old people are even less credible, what does a 60 year old guy know about the internet that a young, born-and-raised on the web kid doesn't? Something to be said for that. I get your point though.

[jasonl70]

right or wrong, it is reality.

And the reality is that image is a huge part of making an initial impression. There has been so many studies regarding this (image and appearance), it isn't even debatable.

I worked in the consulting industry for 10 years after I left the Air Force. We all hated wearing the coat and tie, but the truth was that we were treated with much more respect when we did. And we were programmers and software developers! Hell yes it was absurd - but it's reality so we dealt with it.

[Razer Rage]

Quite frankly, I don't see how looking young would take away from your credibility. And even if it did, it would hardly destroy a sale.

[adroure]

I think both are doing ok

[Brad Callen]

I to, see what you're saying, but I also disagree. I turn 30 in May, yet look much younger. Whether it hurts my credibility or not, I don't want to hide behind a computer screen. It's always best to be as transparent as possible and show you're a real person, no matter what you look like.

Brad

[Chris W. Sutton]

I hear where you people are coming from. It really tics me off when people post their pictures that make them look younger than they really are!

As far as I'm concerned, they are spammers, scammers, hypocrites, low-lifes and they deserve to be put in jail.

I am sick and tired of these fakers trying to be something they are not and ripping off us innocent folk.

It is the same with people who are young trying to look older. Kevin Riley comes to mind... he is really 16 but look at his picture. He looks like a dried up old prune! I don't think I will EVER buy another Kevin Riley product again!

[AndyBlackSEO]

From a different angle: if you seen a sales page selling the hottest new RAP cd, and the artist was a 65 year old man with specs, and a grey bushy beard.... Would you buy it? (Well, I probably would out of curiosity).

My point is that first impressions can count towards credibility, for 'some' people.

As mentioned above. If it is used in their sales copy to their advantage then it can turn things around anyway.

I'm 33. I'm thinking of maybe adding my photo to my sales pages. Can this make much difference with regards to conversions? Or is it more relevant if you sell informational products?

Andy

[Jeremy Wilson]

ummm....who cares either way?

Run a split test, with your pick and without it....the one that converts better is the one you use.

If the one with the young looking picture is the winner then who cares whether someone does not like it?

Or maybe there could be an exit pop...

"Wait before you go...were you turned off by my youthful appearance?... If so, click here to see a version of my site with a more "trustworthy" pic of someone who looks older."

Seriously though, if a person is that quick to make a judgment, that is cool, but on the flip side do you want that kind of person as a customer...if they will always be judging and second guessing you

[ken_p]

I think the table has been divided. The old versus the young! But I could be wrong. I think it would also depend on what product you are trying to sell. for example, i dont think i would buy from a 40 something, who is selling the latest video game... you know what i mean?

[Jotterbox]

If the photo looks professional and they look professional, I don't see a problem with it. My pet hate is more the photos that look like they were taken at some random social gathering with a low quality digital camera. If you don't look good in the photo, don't bother adding it, I say.

Anyway, the youngest guy I've seen doing the marketing thing is from incomediary.com. He seems like he knows what he's talking about even though he looks like he's still in high school.

[JamesPenn]

Originally Posted by asianlunatic

I will tell you a personal experience.

One should not reveal their age unless they're successful . There is some stigma involved with this "age revelation".

When i first started, i didnt reveal my age due to the fact that i might be looked down. Its cool if you're in the IM society as the younger you are, the better and the more genius they think you are...

... But how about if you're dealing with non MMO crowd.. like gardening?

Think your uncle jack will like a 15 year old smartass charging him 47bucks for a gardening tips book? Think again. He will point a specific finger (the specific finger which you're thinking) and ask you to take a walk.

Well, now i dont have that problem, as i am relatively of "old age " :-) and a bit successful in my own right.. but yeah, there you go, from a guy who have been in the situation before.

I agree.

When I started online I hid behind the computer screen, I didn't inject any personality into my marketing because I was worried I'd be found out as being a teenager. I believe that's what held me back.

My emails to my internet marketing lists were getting an average of 5% click-thru's. I wasn't getting emails back from subscribers, there was no interactivity because I wasn't a PERSON.

Then I blasted an email out revealing my age, my hobbies, and a picture. From then on my response to my emails has been much better.

Now I can personalise future emails and my relationship with my subscribers has dramatically increased. They often email me back thanking me for the tips or to just tell me about their life. I regularly get emails saying things such as "I can't believe how young you are, I wish I was doing this at your age".

I'm more approachable now.

I just released a product about list building. I used my age as a USP. Without it I'd just be a regular guy getting regular results, but because I've got a very unique selling proposition I'm not getting regular results.

Using my picture has been one of my best business moves. I think I look younger than I really am, too. I'm 19.

Having said that, one of my major niche markets is in the anti-aging niche. There is absolutely NO WAY I'll use my picture in that market - no one would buy from me. I'd be a laughing stock.

As with most things, you should test. While I haven't done any significant statistical tests, I can see from observation that my results have improved drastically over the past few years, since I became a personality.

James

[Tyrus Antas]

Preconceived notions of age, whether it be someone who is too old or too young will always exist. If you're a teenager you're most likely be less trusted if the people visiting your website are not teenagers. However if you play the fact that whatever you're selling is so easy a teenager can do it, it can probably work. The final answer is still: test, test, test.

Tyrus

[ken_p]

So i am just wondering, being good looking or ugly, will it affect my online career?

[TheCren]

Sounds like you have issues with so many people younger than you being more successful than you. Your job interview example doesn't quite work. It matters very much what the resume says. So the first impression might say otherwise, but credibility is given based on merit not looks.
Your point of view seems very shallow. You should base your decisions on the deeper truths. Let the pic be personal and only personal. Don't give or take away credibility because a person looks a certain way or dresses a certain way, etc. I know prejudices are hard to overcome, but I was hoping we could all keep our ignorance bottled up. They may look young, but after reading this thread you're not looking very smart. Which is worse?

[gyar29]

Perception is reality to the perceiver. Stereotypes exist. Opinions vary.

Some don't equate youth with experience. Some think older equates to less knowledge in regard to technology. Some don't like women using their appearance to sale their products. Some consider anything said by the young suspect due to a lack of experience, while others think anything said by those that are older clouded by antiquated perceptions.

As marketers we don't have the luxury of agreeing or disagreeing with our customer's narrow mindedness, opinions, or perceptions. We just need to know they exist and may impact our sales. Our job is to utilize them to our advantage, or to overcome them with our sales copy.

Is it right to judge someone's credibility by the way they look, to form an opinion of their professionalism by what they wear, or to assign wisdom or the lack of wisdom based on someone's age?

IMO the question is not relevant to our businesses.

What is relevant is that our customers do have those opinions, do form those perceptions, and do assign those stereotypes.

While I think that Paul may have been a bit overbearing in his initial post, his point is valid. Our pictures on our salespage do evoke some type of response from some/all of our potential customers. Perhaps we should test and see if the response is the one we are hoping for.

Gene

Kay. There can be awe inspiring power in the push-up bra. Unfortunately, sometimes it is false advertising and creates an incorrect perception that only leads to the disappointment of the perceiver.

[Paul Buckley]

I, for one, love to see young people pouring their youthful energy into their business. I've always enjoyed associating with young people. It's invigorating and helps to keep my outlook fresh.

Besides, I'm mature enough to make my own judgements about whether or not "the kid" knows his stuff or has something of value to offer.

[Randy Bheites]

Well, it certainly is an argument both for and against "personality branding", isn't it?

I think if you do go the personal brand route, you have to test the element along with everyone else.

It feels like most folks on this thread are talking about only one application - personal branding in the "IM how-to" niche. Personal branding works differently in different niches.

Would you buy skateboards from a guy who looks 50? Would you buy insurance from a teen? Age as a credibility factor really does depend on context.

Testing, that's the ticket.

[AffiliateMax]

No matter what you look like at least putting your own picture on your web site is more honest than putting a picture of someone else who you think looks 'trustworthy' and then pretending it's you!

That's what the guy behind 'underground cash secret' did, the guy whose photo he used found out and posted about it on his blog:
Underground Cash Secrets and Michael Vincent Are a Scam | Good Financial Cents by Jeff Rose Certified Financial Planner

Same trick here: The Bill Killer
"Hi , my name is Chris Jackson and yes that is a picture of me and my family below."
Er, no mate it's not it's another stock photo from istockphoto:
family portraits | Royalty Free Stock Photo Image | iStockphoto.com
If the first line of his salesletter is a lie why would anyone believe any of the rest of it?

Funnily enough, Perry Marshall did a good post on his blog yesterday about getting a photographer in to improve his image as the pic on his site "is 5 years old and was taken at a department store".
The chasm between corporations and entrepreneurs

[Ciaran Doyle]

i think that is a load of rubbish, if you have made a success of yourself at a young age say it, show it, do whatever.

Just remember that more and more young people are actually getting onto the net and they are the internet marketers of the future.

[Louidam1]

Usually when I see that a teen created a website...I just move on unless they have some proof they are making money.

[Gary And Billy]

I was really worried about putting my pic up.

As well as not being 'a looker' I don't have the kind of face that inspires confidence or authority despite being 42 years of age.

However, I hope that over time, people will see my sincerity and perhaps be inspired by my success story as I progress.

I admire anybody who is brave enough to include a photo with their profile or product.`

Gary

[Sean Hoffman]

Not affecting me at all. Actually increased sales.

[manicman1]

I understand exactly what TheAngelGuy is saying..

In fact my first exposure to anyone doing IM was reading about Russell Brunson in the Millionaire Blueprint Magazine (by the way what ever happened to that magazine? I enjoyed it immensely) any how I saw his photos and thought BS..no way in the world is some punk little kid making over a million a year (this was coming from a guy that has worked hard all his life and never making over 20K a year during my youth))...I signed up for his opt in and started looking around the net and figured I would figure out the scam...when Russell offered up to host a seminar for free “if you bought Mike Filsaimes 7 figure code through his affiliate link”.. I thought here is my chance to see what the reality is.... hey I had enough airline points and hotel points to go for free...just a little of my time… and Mikes course was less expensive than signing up to actually attend a conference.
I was blown away..he has the entire building to himself...two floors and we all know commercial real estate is not cheap..I saw at least 30 staff around (payroll isn't cheap)..Office furnishing has a cost associated and least we forget the utilities....
Needless to say it was a great experience. I sat in a room with what had to be 130+ people from all over the world and heard from some of the names that we see online often..Yes there were sales pitches but hey I figure we are all big boys and girls and if we have a gambling problem then we shouldn’t go to the casinos right ;-)
But I met and heard from some amazing people and saw the reality of what you can do with an online and offline business...sure beats working in the coal mines
Plus I met Matt Bacak there and when I went to Atlanta a few months later Matt invited me to his place...again office building..staff...and an hosting company...I may be a Hillbilly but I am sure smart enough to know what I see, and to understand the potential of having a dream and working for that dream to become a reality

so yes Russell had to work hard for me to overcome that youthful face (by the way he and Matt are both great guys) but in the end I am a believer and a convert....and I don't care how old you are or what you look like, if you can teach this old dog a new trick I will sit up and roll over for a biscuit of knowledge that can help me achieve my dream…
Kudos for Russell for working hard to make his dreams come true and Kudos to TheAngelGuy for having a mind and an opinion and for sharing his thoughts of how to make your marketing dreams come true and to remind us that we all have perceptions that are our individual realities and to remind us that we may have to work a little harder to overcome others prealities

[Steve Porcaro]

I admit it on some sales letters where they have a picture that I did not agree with it and disuaded me from the purchase.

There are also sometimes I was pleasantly surprised.

Some people may not like that I am wearing sunglasses

Be yourself, be credible, be honest

The way to tell if your picture hurts or helps sales is to test

[CPA]

If I give out my real age nobody will take me seriously which means that I'll keep my mouth shut.

[Angela V. Edwards]

He looks young, yes, but he's dressed VERY conservatively and he's obviously already married (large wedding ring). So to me, he looks like a young family man, not a "school aged kid". And I would trust a person like this, no problem.

[Victoria Neely]

I think the OP's point is that when you look like a fifteen-year-old kid and post your real picture, SOME people will judge your product and make narrow-minded assumptions based on how you look. You have to work a little bit harder to win them over. That's all.

YOU, the open-minded internet marketer-type, may realize that age is often irrelevant and unimportant. Unfortunately, not everyone is going to have the same mindset. Many people lean on stereotypes. You could ignore it, or you could try to work with it.

Originally Posted by Scott Burton

I'm more technically savvy than both of my boys, and one of them is almost half my age. My wife knows far more about cars than I do. Yet when we go to look at a car, who does the seller assume is the person with the car knowledge?

Similarly, if someone were wanting input about a particular computer game, most would assume that the 17 and 20 year olds in the room would know more than the 36 and 38 year olds. But, it's not always correct.

In marketing, perception can be crucial, and the wrong perception can seriously damage the likelihood you'll have the chance to close the sale.

Bingo. If I go to a hardware store with my husband, guess who the salespeople will focus on?

[Randy Bheites]

Different pen names, different pics. It all depends what audience I'm trying to reach.

I've personally found through testing that some cliches are true. My site that sells powertools does much better with a big tough guy in a hardhat named Bob. My skincream site does much MUCH better with a mature Kathy than a 20-something Kathy.

Every time I change my avatar, the tonality of the PMs I get changes. Perception and judgement are real factors, whether we want to admit it or not.

[BrenneM]

I would suggest it depends upon who your target audience is. If it's teens, a young picture would probably be great. Anyway, pictures should always be professionally done or at least appear to be so no matter what the age.

[FreelanceSally]

I’m all for voicing personal opinions. So, here is mine, I disagree with your point of view 100%. If a kid fresh out of high school managed to build his own online empire and has created a mass of valuable information products, seeing a photo would actually lend to his credibility not make me think...

“Uh-uh, nope, this guy is too young. Let me go find an old retired white guy, he’s surely got more valuable information to share.” Frankly, I couldn’t give a damn whether you are 16, 80, fat, ugly, skinny, sexy or transgendered. If you’ve got something valuable to say, I’m listening.

* I’m saying this from a true buyer’s perspective. I’m a writer, not an internet marketer.

[AdamHolland]

Sure, maybe "first impressions" could be bad... people may jump to conclusions...

But one of my mentors/the same guy I first learned internet marketing from is in his mid-20s and he's made almost $2 million in the last 2 years...

I saw and heard what he was SAYING... I learned some great tips from him because he's got GREAT CONTENT...

It was his 'delivery'...

(and, yes, he looks like a punk kid.. haha)

[BlueSquares]

My 2 cents.

If you do add a picture, don't select a "party" picture of you holding a beer up to the camera. It just kills your credibility in my eyes.

[traces2757]

To play devil's advocate here for a few moments, (yes, Paul, you're in the devil's seat here, wreak havoc while you can!) I can understand a couple of the points that Paul is trying to make.

Anybody who sells you anything where you are hoping for ongoing support can turn out to be a flake, no matter how young or how old they are. But (you knew there was a 'but' coming, right?) people are more conditioned to expect flakiness from younger people. Youngsters are expected to be flaky; they're still trying on different life outfits to see what they want to keep and what they want to discard.

We are also conditioned to expect younger people to be a bit arrogant in their opinions (you remember the old adage about how teenagers should move out of the house while they know everything) and to be impulsive.

So. some people may see a picture of what could possibly be a high-school or even college-aged person asking for potential buyers to trust them and their product and, even for just a moment, they may pause.

Social conditioning.

That being said, any young Internet marketer can get past that kind of prejudicial conditioning by simply proving that they and their products are trustworthy and reliable. Every Internet businessperson has to prove this, but younger people may have to prove it a little harder. It's been that way for ages.

The majority of us, even if we pause for a moment, look past the youthful pictures and make our buying decisions based on something more reliable, like reputation. 'Some' potential buyers may be lost because a seller looks too young, but potential buyers can be lost for a lot of reasons. Nobody bats 100% in this game. If there is anyone who does, please contact me; I'll be willing to shell out a lot of money to get your secrets.