DON'T "personalize" w/pics if you look of school age.

[TheAngelGuy]

Okay, I have to say this, and it might just be my own personal...soapbox, so that's fine if nobody agrees or even wants to hear it.

I don't know who created the original course that said "post a pic of yourself because it provides personalization, truth..." or whatever yada, yada reason they say to do it, because they forgot one basic though important principle.

CREDIBILITY.

If you look like you're still in school, or of college age, and are putting your picture up there because you think it makes you more real...IT DOES. BUT IT'S COSTING YOU CREDIBILITY THAT YOU THEN HAVE TO RE-EARN.

Here's what I mean.

Look at this page and tell me why you don't immediately think that this guys dad really owns the site -

(It's "dot com secrets (dot) com" - I don't have enough posts to include a link.)

YES, IT'S RUSSELL BRUNSON. YES, HE MAY MAKE MILLIONS. YES, HE LOOKS LIKE HE'S STILL IN HIGH SCHOOL.

Now, granted, I finally did order something from him, but here's what happened...

A sales letter is his, mine, or your contact with anyone, so if you're looking like a kid out of high school, and you're approaching me with some kind of grand offer, you've just gotten me to take three steps back, EVEN THOUGH IT MIGHT BE A GREAT OFFER.

For those of you uncomfortable with this post, it would be in your best interest to remember that in marketing, PERCEPTION IS EVERYTHING. And I'm "perceiving" some young kid trying to tell me that they're an expert on something...and that I should buy it.

Oh, wait. Pardon me for laughing.

Same with guys like Ryan Deiss. (Sorry, Ryan, because I have some of your products and both you and them rock. But when I see your image as the first thing in a sales page (or video), you've got to re-earn lost credibility.)

So, here's what I'm saying to the Warriors who actually want to listen to reality instead of some guru's formula (who probably looked very credible so it was natural for them to put their pic up)...

FIND SOME OTHER WAY TO PERSONALIZE THAN PUTTING YOUR HIGH SCHOOL PICTURE UP.

Here's how you should take this -

EVEN IF YOU'RE TEN YEARS OUT OF HIGH SCHOOL, BUT STILL LOOK YOUNG, GIVE IT A SECOND THOUGHT.

Story: Two people go for a job interview that requires at least 5 years experience. One is 23, the other is 40. THE 40 YEAR OLD IS GOING TO BE ASSUMED THAT THEY HAVE EXPERIENCE. THE 23 YEAR OLD IS GOING TO HAVE TO WORK HARDER TO PROVE IT, NO MATTER WHAT THEIR RESPECTIVE RESUME SAYS.

So I hope this points some of you off the bandwagon and to greater sales, even if it's just a little bit. Or at least hopefully someone will tell Russell Brunson to take his baby pictures off of his MONEY MAKING web site.

I swear to God I can't believe he doesn't see how obvious that is.

(Russell's a great guy, by the way, and does have some really good info products.)

</SOAPBOX>

- Paul

P.S. So this thread doesn't get overwhelmed with "what do YOU look like, Paul?" I will tell you that I'm 39 and am told that I look like Jon Bon Jovi in his mid-20's, so yes, I've had to work at the initial credibility thing, too.

[Nathan Hangen]

I see what you are saying about Russell, but I don't agree about Ryan.

I think they are both doing OK though.

[Michael Oksa]

Sorry, but I don't have such a narrow, prejudicial approach to people based on their picture.

I don't care if they look young - it may mean they have a youthful edge - AND on the Internet THAT counts for something.

And I certainly don't assume "this guys dad really owns the site".

Again, sorry, but I think your comments are misguided, if not narrow-minded. Nothing wrong with having your own opinions, I just couldn't disagree with them more.

All the best,
Michael

[Robertas]

TheAngelGuy, bad day or what? Just ignore something you don't like. Russell and Ryan are great and I've learnt a lot from these guys. I don't know whats your problem... Just because someone is young, it doesn't mean he's (add something here)

[Michael Oksa]

A few other quick thoughts.

I would say don't use a picture from high school if you are older.

Regardless of age, you do need to look trustworthy and/or friendly.

A pic DOES help to personalize the message.

~Michael

[TheAngelGuy]

Hey, all these replies are great, guys - thanks for them.

Kind of shows, too, that bringing up stuff that's primarily subconscious that may be uncomfortable can have some knee jerk reactions.

To those that disagree...watch the next sales letter that you consider going in on. I'm curious if you can honestly say that a youthful picture had no effect.

Now, understand that I'm NOT talking about avatar pics, personal pics on a personal site, or ANYTHING at all like that.

I'm strictly talking about that one pic that we're told is the secret to personalization on a sales letter where you've never even heard of the author before.

Calling the need for credibility narrow-minded kind of shows that there might be something else going on - are you embarassed that you might have thought that at once?

I am not embarassed to voice things that sometimes might not seem totally comfortable and this can be healthy no matter how peer-disapproved someone is.

Sorry if this ruffled feathers.

This "perception" however, and the accompanying behavior, is actual.

Thanks, again, for all the answers so far. It's good and healthy to voice all sides of something.

[JayXtreme]

I think you're just jealous.. I'll let you borrow my pic if ya like

lol.. all jokin' aside, I'd never even thought about such an "issue" ever arising.. I do look 15 though... maybe I should get all worried and remove my picture??...

Surely it is losing me sales right now???????


Peace

Jay

[TheAngelGuy]

By the way, if anyone wants to just vent against me and my "odd, narrow" perceptions, that's fine, I really have no trouble with that.

But think of your presentation to your customers who DON'T know you (yet), who might be thinking the same thing.

My whole point to this is that it's NOT just the "Here's Proof" part of your sales page that is going to be the ONLY thing to establish credibility.

FWIW, I'm not just buying your OFFER, I'm buying a relationship with YOU. And if you're young, then stay friggin' young, I don't care and that's not the point. The point is perception and how to use it in your favor, and how it's not being used in some IM's favor.

Learn from it or deny that it happens. It's your choice AND IT'S NOT A REFLECTION ON YOU, THE "YOUNG" AUTHOR, OR THE PERSON WHO DISAGREES.

PLEASE DISAGREE TO YOUR SATISFACTION. I'M STILL THREE STEPS BACK UNTIL YOU CAN PROVE YOUR NOT A FLY-BY-NIGHT KID.

SORRY IF THAT OFFENDS because I'm not at all concerned about how wrong it sounds. This is a post about making sales and what might make someone not want to trust the YOU in your offer if all they see is some young kid's pic in a sales letter.

I'm saying, too, that if it doesn't build credibility, LEAVE IT OUT so your sales message does that part for you.

I don't mind getting 1,000 hateful replies, but those who are paying attention will adjust their processes, not take any of this personally.

(By the way, I think Ryan is a fantastic speaker - one of the clearest and most articulate of anyone on any audio product I have. To hear him and Perry Belcher go at it over audio is both informative and entertaining.

So everyone knows...I'm not talking AT ALL about REAL credibility. I'm more talking about INITIAL FIRST IMPRESSIONS. Take it or leave it, people do judge by how looks fit the situation.)

[Michael Oksa]

I am not saying the need for credibility is narrow-minded, I am saying how some people determine credibility IS narrow-minded.

[Diana Lane]

School-age? Not a problem here. Stone-age? Probably

My teenage children and a lot of their friends are far more knowledgeable in some areas than I am, and I'd readily take their advice if I felt that I needed to know more. Half of what I know about Photoshop is what youngest son taught me.

It's not important how many years people have stacked up - what they've done with them matters more. We're all of us different, and so are the people who make judgements based on age - some are likely to look at a photo of a school-age person and assume 'technological whizzkid', with an older person's photo just inspiring thoughts of dinosaurs.

[AfteraDream]

Well, there is carlocab.com a site of 15 old BOY who is doing very well.. so this kinda goes against what you said.

[Tyler Jonsson]

Yea I disagree with this as well. I am still in college, and I think personal branding is very important.

I think that the younger generation today has such an incredible high computer/net IQ, that I almost see it as a GOOD thing to be buying products from younger marketers.

To each their own.

[Mubarak Waseem]

Ok ok. I am 16, and I do not post my image. This actually is because of my age. People are NOT going to buy a money-making system from a 16 yr old, unless....

1. It is highly recommended, and testimonials etc
2. The kid uses it to their advantage. Using the 'rich kid' tactic, or the 'child supergenius' (as I like to call it) works well.
3. Kids are seen to be more technical when it comes to computers etc. Whilst this may not be the case in the IM circle, it is in the wider community, and THAT is where kids use thier age as an advantage...

[Johnathan]

Actually -- I would agree with 'TheAngelGuy', and actually surprised at some of the initial responses here, and would actually say that those responses are very shortsighted and narrowminded, totally dismissing his comment without reading what he actually said.

I do agree that a picture of someone that looks like they are just out of highschool (actually that one picture looks does look like he is still in highschool, looks like he even has acne. I'm surprised he didn't air brush the photo)...

I think some people are missing the point.

He is not saying that you should not use a youthful looking picture, just that you may have to work twice as hard to gain the same respect as say someone who looks twice as old. I 100% agree.

Now for the people he has mentioned, it looks like they have worked twice as hard to establish that credibility, so that is one reason why they've managed to be successful. But I believe his advice is quite pertinent and useful, if you are just starting out, remember that image is very important, and be prepared to do the work.

[Michael Oksa]

Originally Posted by TheAngelGuy

By the way, if anyone wants to just vent against me and my "odd, narrow" perceptions, that's fine, I really have no trouble with that.

But think of your presentation to your customers who DON'T know you (yet), who might be thinking the same thing.

My whole point to this is that it's NOT just the "Here's Proof" part of your sales page that is going to be the ONLY thing to establish credibility.

FWIW, I'm not just buying your OFFER, I'm buying a relationship with YOU. And if you're young, then stay friggin' young, I don't care and that's not the point. The point is perception and how to use it in your favor, and how it's not being used in some IM's favor.

Learn from it or deny that it happens. It's your choice AND IT'S NOT A REFLECTION ON YOU, THE "YOUNG" AUTHOR, OR THE PERSON WHO DISAGREES.

PLEASE DISAGREE TO YOUR SATISFACTION. I'M STILL THREE STEPS BACK UNTIL YOU CAN PROVE YOUR NOT A FLY-BY-NIGHT KID.

SORRY IF THAT OFFENDS because I'm not at all concerned about how wrong it sounds. This is a post about making sales and what might make someone not want to trust the YOU in your offer if all they see is some young kid's pic in a sales letter.

I'm saying, too, that if it doesn't build credibility, LEAVE IT OUT so your sales message does that part for you.

I don't mind getting 1,000 hateful replies, but those who are paying attention will adjust their processes, not take any of this personally.

(By the way, I think Ryan is a fantastic speaker - one of the clearest and most articulate of anyone on any audio product I have. To hear him and Perry Belcher go at it over audio is both informative and entertaining.

So everyone knows...I'm not talking AT ALL about REAL credibility. I'm more talking about INITIAL FIRST IMPRESSIONS. Take it or leave it, people do judge by how looks fit the situation.)

To be clear, my point is that a youthful appearance may actually build credibility in other people's minds.

I think you're projecting your personal opinions into a sweeping piece of advice that may not be true in all cases.

You are right that it's not just the sales message that gets people to buy, that's why I added that if you do use a pic it should make you look trustworthy and/or friendly.

You have to make your own judgment calls, and if a person's age enters into that equation for you, then that's up to you.

One of the nice things about the Internet is that it doesn't discriminate - if you do the right things you can do well.

Okay, enough BS. What it comes down to is this: People of ANY age can have something to contribute to the world of IM. If you're taken back three steps because someone looks young, then you do. I think it's foolish, but that's just my opinion on the matter.

All the best,
Michael

[TheAngelGuy]

Hey, great replies everyone, and I didn't mean to open a can of worms...but just so there's some clarity, let me give a real-world example.

And by the way, perception IS pesonal, but it's usually shared.

When my first son was born (he's 3), it was at a hospital in Orlando, Florida, that was supposed to be (and was) the cream of the crop. But as each "doctor" came in to examine or check on my wife, they seemed to be age 23 at the most, and I'm thinking, "no way - get me someone who knows what they're doing..."

Luckily, a more experienced doctor actually delivered my son, but the point was that credibility and experience have perceptions to them.

And I TOTALLY agree with the young kid/whiz kid association.

But it's about maketing a sometimes high-dollar business success product, not an advanced PHP course, I'm talking about here.

And for God's sake, everyone, all I'm talking about is the initial first impression on the first-contact sales letter, not banning them from life from my own personal universe.

Lighten up a little...

[Michael Oksa]

No problem, Paul. I'm not angry or upset. I'm just giving you my first impression opinion based on your post. That's pretty much all a forum is.

If anything, it's a good discussion to be having. I'm assuming you didn't post just expecting everyone to agree wholeheartedly. We discuss, we may disagree, offering points and counterpoints - but we don't really gain anything from people who simply agree. We may change our thinking to some degree, or we may feel even stronger about our initial opinion. Either way, I enjoy the differeing points of view.

All the best,
Michael

[Daniel Molano]

Tell that to our warrior Stanley Tang, 15 year old with a best seller book on internet business at Amazon.

His picture, before the launch of the book, was all over the newspapers and the internet.

Who cares about the picture when you have something unique to deliver and you place it in front of millions of eyes.

[Michael Oksa]

Originally Posted by TMG Enterprises

I have to agree to a certain extent with the OP here. In this forum or in IM circles, we're all aware of very young marketers. Out in the offline world or even other niches, it is harder for older people to believe that a 17-year old kid has enough experience to actually solve our problems.

I'm not saying that it's right to judge by age (or any other external factor) but just because it's not right doesn't mean it doesn't happen. Whether or not this impacts sales is a matter of testing.

Tina G

Testing is what it really comes down to. I think that's why I gave a strong response to the OP, it was delivered as an across-the-board edict (based on the subject line). In reality, some people that follow that advice could lose sales. The only way to know for sure is by testing.

~Michael

[JayXtreme]

Originally Posted by Michael Oksa

To be clear, my point is that a youthful appearance may actually build credibility in other people's minds.

I think you're projecting your personal opinions into a sweeping piece of advice that may not be true in all cases.

You are right that it's not just the sales message that gets people to buy, that's why I added that if you do use a pic it should make you look trustworthy and/or friendly.

You have to make your own judgment calls, and if a person's age enters into that equation for you, then that's up to you.

One of the nice things about the Internet is that it doesn't discriminate - if you do the right things you can do well.

Okay, enough BS. What it comes down to is this: People of ANY age can have something to contribute to the world of IM. If you're taken back three steps because someone looks young, then you do. I think it's foolish, but that's just my opinion on the matter.

All the best,
Michael

Well, Michael.. you look so mature and wise..

Seen as you appear to be the "right age" to be a marketer, well your pic says so anyway?

With all that in mind.. I just bought your WSO.. thanks for taking the time to provide a picture that displays the "right age" Michael Oksa.. a picture that looked 2 years younger and I would've avoided your product at all costs

Peace

Jay

[Mubarak Waseem]

But the thing is, Stanley recieved credibilty BECAUSE his face was plastered everywhere....

Mubarak

[TheAngelGuy]

Originally Posted by Michael Oksa

I think you're projecting your personal opinions into a sweeping piece of advice that may not be true in all cases.

Jeez, Mike, of COURSE it's not true in all cases, or even MOST cases, but just this ONE as a matter of fact that's caused be to go "okay, let me make sure this guy knows his stuff before I spend my money".

I'm not judging them as a PERSON and in fact, I'm not judging THEM at ALL.

I'm JUDGING THE CREDIBILITY OF THE SALES PIECE IF I DON'T KNOW OR HAVE ANY EXPERIENCE WITH THE AUTHOR

Originally Posted by Michael Oksa

You are right that it's not just the sales message that gets people to buy, that's why I added that if you do use a pic it should make you look trustworthy and/or friendly.

AND/OR CREDIBLE DEPENDING UPON THE SUBJECT MATTER.

Originally Posted by Michael Oksa

You have to make your own judgment calls, and if a person's age enters into that equation for you, then that's up to you.

And what I wanted to bring to light, too, is that IT'S NOT A JUDGEMENT CALL - IT'S AN INSTANT SUBCONSCIOUS ASSOCIATION with "how can a person that young have that much experience in the business world?"

Originally Posted by Michael Oksa

Okay, enough BS. What it comes down to is this: People of ANY age can have something to contribute to the world of IM.

Of COURSE they can. I've been actually agreeing with you all along, Michael.

Originally Posted by Michael Oksa

If you're taken back three steps because someone looks young, then you do. I think it's foolish, but that's just my opinion on the matter.

I don't take three steps back consciously. It just happens as a security measure - maybe of not wanting to get taken - we all have this. What if it was a picture of a 40 year old in prison garb? Would you still consider buying?

Tell me that you wouldn't take three steps back from THAT...

(Then ask me if I believe you.)

[Daniel Molano]

Originally Posted by Mubarak Waseem

But the thing is, Stanley recieved credibilty BECAUSE his face was plastered everywhere....

Mubarak

It wouldn't have been plastered everywhere if he didn't place out there to begin with. Half the buzz was created THANKS to his age and him posting his picture.

The fact that the book is actually remarkably good had nothing to do with half of its marketing.

[Michael Oksa]

Originally Posted by JayXtreme

Well, Michael.. you look so mature and wise..

Seen as you appear to be the "right age" to be a marketer, well your pic says so anyway?

With all that in mind.. I just bought your WSO.. thanks for taking the time to provide a picture that displays the "right age" Michael Oksa.. a picture that looked 2 years younger and I would've avoided your product at all costs

Peace

Jay

Thanks Jay, funny how humor can point to certain truths.


LOL

What's really funny is that's a picture from about 2 years ago, so I am 2 years younger. So, if it looked 4 years younger you wouldn't have bought, because I'm 2 years older than I was then, but so much that it's noticeable enough to impact sales.

As to whether I'm the "right age" I don't know, but someone once told me my avatar pic looked "creepy".



All the best,
Michael

[Scott Burton]

Originally Posted by Michael Oksa

I am not saying the need for credibility is narrow-minded, I am saying how some people determine credibility IS narrow-minded.

I think this is exactly what the OP was talking about though. While the presentation was a little off, the message is that at least some of the time, the picture actually can hurt credibility.

If I'm trying to sell you something to reduce wrinkles, should the picture of me make me look like I'm in my 60s and I say I'm in my 40s?

Likewise, if I'm trying to sell you my service and expertise on rebuilding your antique roadster, should I look like a high school student on his way to Prom (Tuxedo or Suit) ?

The picture used should obviously be real. But it should also contribute to the credibility you are trying to establish.

Originally Posted by Mubarak Waseem

Ok ok. I am 16, and I do not post my image. This actually is because of my age. People are NOT going to buy a money-making system from a 16 yr old, unless....

1. It is highly recommended, and testimonials etc
2. The kid uses it to their advantage. Using the 'rich kid' tactic, or the 'child supergenius' (as I like to call it) works well.
3. Kids are seen to be more technical when it comes to computers etc. Whilst this may not be the case in the IM circle, it is in the wider community, and THAT is where kids use thier age as an advantage...

Mubarak, it seems to me that you are helping the case here. You realize that if you are trying to sell me information on how to make money, your photo could work against you.

While the perception is that kids are more technical, and older people have more experience to back up their knowledge. These are stereotypes. Stereotypes will continue to persist as long as people (in general) presume them to be accurate.

I'm more technically savvy than both of my boys, and one of them is almost half my age. My wife knows far more about cars than I do. Yet when we go to look at a car, who does the seller assume is the person with the car knowledge?

Similarly, if someone were wanting input about a particular computer game, most would assume that the 17 and 20 year olds in the room would know more than the 36 and 38 year olds. But, it's not always correct.

In marketing, perception can be crucial, and the wrong perception can seriously damage the likelihood you'll have the chance to close the sale.

[Earl Heflin]

Yeah I don't think a picture is going to make or break someone.

I'm 31 yrs old with a very youthful look.

When I'm looking to work with someone, I'm way more interested
in what they have to say.

That's why I like attraction marketing, because anybody can
attract their niche regardless of the way ya look, your age, your sex,
or smell for that matter...

Sure pics do say 1000 words. However in my opinion they just add
personality to someones content, and puts a face/personality
behind it.

[TheAngelGuy]

Originally Posted by JayXtreme

Well, Michael.. you look so mature and wise..

Seen as you appear to be the "right age" to be a marketer, well your pic says so anyway?

With all that in mind.. I just bought your WSO.. thanks for taking the time to provide a picture that displays the "right age" Michael Oksa.. a picture that looked 2 years younger and I would've avoided your product at all costs

Peace

Jay

Jay,

I think you're getting off-topic here. I buy most of your guys WSO's not giving a sh*t about your pic. YOU'VE ALREADY BUILT CREDIBILITY WITH YOUR POSTS so the trust issue is non-existent.

Duh, come on, I can't believe you're misreading my posts so bad. (I do read yours intensely, however. )

I'm strictly talking about when you (or someone else) goes to a sales page and they've not encountered the author ANYWHERE before, not even from a recommendation.

So everyone knows, I actually didn't expect ANY positive replies and I expected much harsher words that what was given, so it's all good.

[Michael Oksa]

When did I say credibility wasn't important?

That's what I meant by looking friendly and trustworthy. And for me, age doesn't matter, but your example of someone in a prison uniform does - UNLESS they were selling a guide on how to stay alive in, or escape from, prison.

So, maybe the key is that the credibility has to be delivered within the context, but we all have different associations that affect what we consider credible.

All the best,
Michael

[TheAngelGuy]

All I'm saying is it's a factor that's caused me to pass by an offer or two, though you couldn't tell that from the 60 or 70 that I HAVE bought.

And by the way, opinions are fine, but those two offers I still didn't buy, so..well, I don't think I could elucidate any more. Obviously some of you get it.

[JayXtreme]

Originally Posted by TheAngelGuy

Jay,

I think you're getting off-topic here. I buy most of your guys WSO's not giving a sh*t about your pic. YOU'VE ALREADY BUILT CREDIBILITY WITH YOUR POSTS so the trust issue is non-existent.

Duh, come on, I can't believe you're misreading my posts so bad. (I do read yours intensely, however. )

I'm strictly talking about when you (or someone else) goes to a sales page and they've not encountered the author ANYWHERE before, not even from a recommendation.

So everyone knows, I actually didn't expect ANY positive replies and I expected much harsher words that what was given, so it's all good.

Hey dude... I actually DO get your point, and for sure.. it WILL hurt credibility very occasionally, with cold traffic(the internet scam effect kicks in and people are skeptical)... but knowing the way this thread was going (some people assuming you were "ageist"), I thought I would fool around a little... it's almost 8pm here.. my fiancee has taken the niece out for a film, I'm left holding the baby... who actually looks older than me.. so I'm relaxin' a little with a Brandy

Peace

Jay

[Andrew E.]

I've had the same thought before - I look rather young (indeed I am), but what I don't understand is the need for "Personal" branding now a days in the IM industry. It seems as if everyone wants to be a guru, and be known by their first name.

While that speaks to being a great marketer, I'm trying to brand myself and my team's services through our company name, that way I don't deal with any perceptions about myself personally.

[TheAngelGuy]

Originally Posted by Michael Oksa

When did I say credibility wasn't important?

That's what I meant by looking friendly and trustworthy. And for me, age doesn't matter, but your example of someone in a prison uniform does - UNLESS they were selling a guide on how to stay alive in, or escape from, prison.

So, maybe the key is that the credibility has to be delivered within the context, but we all have different associations that affect what we consider credible.

All the best,
Michael

Mike, right, this IS what I've been saying all along. Some people association with credibility has to do with an additional component. (My three year old looks friendly and trustworthy, for God's sake.)

All I'm saying that there CAN and sometimes IS an association with first impressions and background according to what is being sold. My first impressions looking at Russell Brunson was "how could this young kid even have enough TIME or LIFE experience to share something sellable, let alone BUSINESS experience."

But all it would take is something like, "Hi, I'm Russell Brunson and I'm a 27 year old multi-millionaire."

Then the picture association thing would be a thing of the past.

I think everyone is reading too much into this and trying to define what they WANT someone's first impression to be like.

I'm simply telling you that what you WANT it to be and what it IS are different so use what it IS to your advantage. (Ex: don't show a school-age pic.)

If anyone has taken this topic to some kind of right/wrong thing, I'm sorry - you're discussion is in another thread or maybe another forum altogether.

[Michael Oksa]

Originally Posted by TheAngelGuy

All I'm saying is it's a factor that's caused me to pass by an offer or two, though you couldn't tell that from the 60 or 70 that I HAVE bought.

And by the way, opinions are fine, but those two offers I still didn't buy, so..well, I don't think I could elucidate any more. Obviously some of you get it.

I get it.

The picture is only one part of the whole. But if any part of the whole causes people not to buy, then it should be changed.

The only thing I disagree with is the age element, but that's just me, and I don't fault you for it.

I can't argue about your passing on the offers. If the pics made you not buy, then that's your reason, no problem. The other side of it is that others may have bought BECAUSE of the pics - you never know.

"Take a look at your pic to see if it could be costing you sales" THAT I agree with.

"Your pic is linked to your credibility" I agree with that, too.

We agree on much more than we don't agree on. Still a good discussion.

All the best,
Michael

[TheAngelGuy]

Originally Posted by JayXtreme

but knowing the way this thread was going (some people assuming you were "ageist"), I thought I would fool around a little...

Oh, please, I love it and it's great to fool around. I have an Arnold-sized dose of irreveence and no filters at that, so it's all good.

But I did know that the topic would have some potential for misuse and misunderstanding.

In the future, though, if I can provide you or anyone fun-humor-happiness fodder, use it! (Too much stress in the world already...)

[jmidas]

Originally Posted by Michael Oksa

I am not saying the need for credibility is narrow-minded, I am saying how some people determine credibility IS narrow-minded.

Michael, you are exactly right. BUT, the problem is that most people are not as open minded as you. I think the OP is right in his assertation - when you are very young looking, there is a stereotype that says you can't possible be as "experienced" or even as "talented" as someone older-looking. Whether they are right or wrong does not matter. All that matters is their opinion if they are the one about to pull out the credit card or checkbook.

Remember, we have to deal with the real world. And, in the real world, most people are idiots.

[Michael Oksa]

Originally Posted by jmidas

Michael, you are exactly right. BUT, the problem is that most people are not as open minded as you. I think the OP is right in his assertation - when you are very young looking, there is a stereotype that says you can't possible be as "experienced" or even as "talented" as someone older-looking. Whether they are right or wrong does not matter. All that matters is their opinion if they are the one about to pull out the credit card or checkbook.

Remember, we have to deal with the real world. And, in the real world, most people are idiots.

LOL, sorry I couldn't resist. I am currently reading Larry Winget's book, People Are Idiots and I Can Prove It. Highly recommended.

~Michael

[susanm]

I've gotten some of my best information from people in their early 20's or even teenagers, and I have not been in my 20's for many years now. I would not be put off by a young looking picture.

However, I do understand what you're saying. I may not look like a teenager, but my voice sounds like that of a 12 year old. Seriously. It doesn't exactly inspire confidence in my wisdom or abilities, and it can keep people from taking me seriously. My voice is what keeps me from making audios and videos. I figure I will have to hire someone to do voiceovers for me if I decide to go that route.

It's too bad we are judged by the superficial things about us, and not everyone judges us that way. But some people do. That's just the way it is. It is something to keep in mind, at the very least.

Susan

[tylerjaysen]

yeah everyone has their opinions..but if you look at alot of the guys who are killing on the net...they're all young....

And the net is really something that the younger generation knows better than the old fogies

[susanm]

Who are you calling an old fogie?

[JayXtreme]

Originally Posted by tylerjaysen

And the net is really something that the younger generation knows better than the old fogies

Not true... John Taylor is a little bit smarter than me... or so his pic says

[AnneE]

Ha ha.... well this one made me laugh. I just WANT to look young. That being said, while I use the kindergarten picture here, I have more recent pictures on any sales page.

I will say that a youthful picture won't turn me off, BUT.... there is a combination -- youth and arrogance -- that I really can't stand. Really, it is arrogance that rubs me the wrong way. Sales pages that smell of look-how-much-I've-achieved irritate me, but I know my reaction is even stronger if I think the author is in their teens (or just out).

[Kay King]

Perception is a funny thing - and totally personal.

Age (young or old) doesn't matter to me - unless you look like you are 12 (and some do). Russ may look young - but he looks like he's in business.

Sure, we can wear whatever we want (or not wear whatever) when working at home. But if your photo looks like you haven't showered, changed or shaved in a couple days, or you're sitting on an unmade bed or standing in a messy kitchen....my perception is not of a business person.

I feel the same when I visit a woman's site and see a photo that seems meant to emphasize the power of the pushup bra

But that's just me...

kay

[Charles Washington]

Is my pic OK?

[Kevin Lam]

All I have to say is my first $150,000 was made even when I CLEARLY stated that I was 18 years old. 'Nuff said.

[Michael Oksa]

Originally Posted by netdebut

All I have to say is my first $150,000 was made even when I CLEARLY stated that I was 18 years old. 'Nuff said.

Maybe it was BECAUSE you clearly stated that you were 18???

~Michael

[Kevin Lam]

Hahaha, maybe I should say I'm 18 again! I should have done that the past 8 years, lol. Thanks, Michael.

[bauger]

I actually knew Russell's name before I even knew what he looked like. I don't think his young appreance make a different too me.

There are a ton of young marketers out there now not even 18 that sell quality products and have a good rep

[TiMa]

Its true. People do NOT take young guns seriously. Even Bill Gates had to face it.

However, what I feel is this - The current generation is more open to ideas from youngsters than it was like 30 years back. Even now, my dad (who is in his 60's) really doesn't take my "business ideas" seriously. However, my uncle's in their 30's do. That's what they call the "Generation Gap", I guess.

[tommyp]

I still get carded for cigs sometimes and once in a blue I'll get a "Oh my" comment (not always - some days I think I actually look older than I am. Some sort of Jekyll and Hyde thing going on) so I don't know but your (OP) attitude is probably typical and what I'd expect from a lot of people.

But it's your paradigm and I don't relate to it. I think your attitude is conditioned by a culture that invented the myth of the "teenager" and "adolescent" where this new fabricated group of non-children are considered as children and as such they are somehow stupid and can't be taken seriously. Then you see a pic of someone you perceive to be younger than they are and feel like they can't possibly be worth listening to.

I think I relate more to the people whose pictures you're commenting on. It's not even an issue and never crossed my mind. To me it's just some dude dressed up and smiling cause he wants to make a certain kind of impression. I'd do my due diligence before making a judgment based on how I perceive his appearance to be.

Besides even if the guy isn't in his teens or even early 20s, even at late 20s or somewhere in the 30s it's not uncommon for some people to look like they could still be in college cause that ain't old by any stretch of my imagination and isn't a whole lot of time after some people finish college anyway and, although personally I'd rather not show my ugly mug, just because some people who are like you might think they are in high school or college is hardly a reason for them not to show their faces because they might get judged on their appearance.

[Mike Hill]

Originally Posted by TheAngelGuy

If you look like you're still in school, or of college age, and are putting your picture up there because you think it makes you more real...IT DOES. BUT IT'S COSTING YOU CREDIBILITY THAT YOU THEN HAVE TO RE-EARN.

Who says it's costing them their credibility? YOU...?

Bahahaha! If you're that narrow minded to judge someone on the way they look then stay away from me. I'm someone who is very serious about this business and therefore I judge people on their actions.

Mike Hill