ClickBank - the real facts

[Harvey Segal]

Originally Posted by Nathan Hangen

Apparently, the first rule about Clickbank is that you do not post about Clickbank...funny how a bunch of posts went up missing in this thread.

You need to ask the forum moderators why.

Originally Posted by Nathan Hangen

I think the problem with your post Harvey (this particular one) is that you preach as if you have all the facts, when it is the opinion of myself and of many Warriors that you do not.

I did not preach. I made 9 points

Originally Posted by Nathan Hangen

As far as your other threads, you have continually come in here as a cheerleader for Clickbank and belittled nearly anyone that has an opinion otherwise. If you don't work for Clickbank, then frankly I'm surprised, because you act like it.

The problem is that you have your facts completely wrong

Did you not read my reply to Frank Bruno ?

Here it is again

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Frank

This is a good example of how people see things that are just not true.

During all the countless anti-ClickBank threads (i.e those accusing
ClickBank of scamming) I made it a policy NOT to get involved.

All I did was make just two posts (which did not even mention ClickBank)
in the hope that it might counter some of the main allegations.

These were

People with glasses: the stats are in

Should I name and shame this Warrior?

Aside from that all the posts you ever see me make at the forum are
responses to technical type questions about ClickBank's system.

So to say that I am
"so ingulfed in coming forward to represent CB like your a top official within the organization"
or ask if I am
"a self appointed CB mediator"
is way off the mark.



"I'm just curious do you work for them or just want to work for them?

I'm just curious what your position is with the company?"

I don't work for them or want to work for them.
I have no position within the company

My connection with ClickBank is that I run a forum and have a site
about ClickBank - which both carry the disclaimer "This site is not
affiliated with Keynetics Inc./ClickBank in any way etc "

----------------------------------------------------------------

[Harvey Segal]

And also

Originally Posted by Nathan Hangen

you have continually come in here as a cheerleader for Clickbank and belittled nearly anyone that has an opinion otherwise.

Show me where I have "belittled nearly anyone that has an opinion otherwise".


.

[Nathan Hangen]

Originally Posted by Harvey.Segal

You need to ask the forum moderators why.


I did not preach. I made 9 points


The problem is that you have your facts completely wrong

Did you not read my reply to Frank Bruno ?

Here it is again

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Frank

This is a good example of how people see things that are just not true.

During all the countless anti-ClickBank threads (i.e those accusing
ClickBank of scamming) I made it a policy NOT to get involved.

All I did was make just two posts (which did not even mention ClickBank)
in the hope that it might counter some of the main allegations.

These were

People with glasses: the stats are in

Should I name and shame this Warrior?

Aside from that all the posts you ever see me make at the forum are
responses to technical type questions about ClickBank's system.

So to say that I am
"so ingulfed in coming forward to represent CB like your a top official within the organization"
or ask if I am
"a self appointed CB mediator"
is way off the mark.



"I'm just curious do you work for them or just want to work for them?

I'm just curious what your position is with the company?"

I don't work for them or want to work for them.
I have no position within the company

My connection with ClickBank is that I run a forum and have a site
about ClickBank - which both carry the disclaimer "This site is not
affiliated with Keynetics Inc./ClickBank in any way etc "

----------------------------------------------------------------

Harvey,

I'm not going to debate semantics with you. Preach, state, tell, argue, provide...whatever. You said "facts" and the situation is that some, if not many, people believe they are not facts.

I did read your reply to Frank, but it did not change my mind. That being said, if you do not work for CB, then how do you have any facts at all?

I don't really feel like arguing with you over this because I know you aren't going to change your mind and I don't plan on changing mine. People say you are a nice guy, and I believe them, but I've been watching a lot of your comments on this forum and many of them are condescending.

[Harvey Segal]

Originally Posted by Nathan Hangen

but I've been watching a lot of your comments on this forum and many of them are condescending.

Well I won't let that go and ask you to point them out.

Harvey

[John Taylor]

Originally Posted by Nathan Hangen

Apparently, the first rule about Clickbank is that you do not post about Clickbank...funny how a bunch of posts went up missing in this thread.

If you care to do even a little research you'll see
evidence to the contrary. In fact if that statement
was true, this thread wouldn't exist.

Posts don't go missing. They get deleted by other
members who report them, they get deleted when
people get banned and when a forum Admin decides
that they are inappropriate.

The following are example of what might be seen as
inappropriate comments:

As far as your other threads, you have continually come in here as a cheerleader for Clickbank and belittled nearly anyone that has an opinion otherwise. If you don't work for Clickbank, then frankly I'm surprised, because you act like it.

I don't understand all the aggression in this place...some of which is very passive, but exists nonetheless.

This thread is literally hanging by a thread on the edge
of being deleted precisely because of personal attacks
and insults.

Harvey started a thread that was designed to help folks
clear up some misconceptions. I really wonder why he
bothers when so many people seem to be more concerned
about shooting the messenger than trying to understand
the message.

John

[Martin.Avis]

I've been watching a lot of your comments on this forum and many of them are condescending.

I suppose that like beauty, condescention is in the eyes of the beholder.

Harvey can be accused of many things: factual, patient and funny are three that spring to mind, but I can't honestly say that I've ever seen him be condescending to anyone.

Of course, if you have been misreading his sometimes bizarre sense of humor then perhaps you could have read things differently to me.

On a matter of fact (and not aimed solely at you Nathan), I don't believe that Harvey or anyone else has said or even suggested that there are no problems at all with ClickBank. I'm sure that anyone who has experience of tracking issues will know that no system can ever be 100% foolproof because the Internet just doesn't work that way.

As to how those problems can be addressed, resolved or even properly identified is more than likely way too complex for me to understand.

But I do know (from having met the board of ClickBank on several occasions) that they are working very very hard to make their system as good as it can be.

The beef that Harvey (if I may put words into his mouth) and many others here have is not that questions about Clickbank are raised, but that they are so often couched in inflammatory, conspiracy-theory terms.

I too would like to see Clickbank engage in discussion more often, but I can't really blame them for shying away from debates with people who shout 'scammer' at the earliest unfounded opportunity.

Martin

[Chris Kent]

Oh dear, look at this thread now. I knew this was going to happen.

[Nathan Hangen]

Originally Posted by ProductCreator

Oh dear, look at this thread now. I knew this was going to happen.

This is a perfect example of what I was talking about...I made what I would consider rather mild comments, and everyone gets all up in arms over it.

People disagree, that's life! My comments were not an insult to Harvey, rather a statement of perception that others have echoed as well.

I get it, I'm not as popular here as some of the veterans and I'm probably susceptible to things on my own efforts, but we are all grown ups and professionals here and there really isn't any reason to mince words.

My only problem with the thread was that the title stated facts. I could care less about the CB issues because as a vendor and affiliate, I don't really have any other choice.

Again I will pose this question...if Harvey doesn't work for CB, then how does he have the facts or ability to clear up misconceptions? Jeremy, Steve, Don, and others already pointed out some flaws...they also have the numbers to back their statements up.

I'm really not here to stir up any trouble, but why is everyone so defensive? Can't we have an adult discussion without people getting all excited?

Oh and Harvey, I'd rather retract the statement than provide proof. Not because there isn't any, but because I don't want to start a flame war. I'd post examples, then you would fire back (so would others probably), then suddenly the thread becomes a me vs you thing and I don't have a beef with you and this thread must live on...

[Chris Kent]

Yep. I have a lot of respect for Harvey. But the opening post to this thread is no different to a reply in the locked/removed thread that got out of hand.

And guess what, this thread gets out of hand too. Not difficult to predict at all.

On the one side you've got someone with a huge vested interest in Clickbank and is protecting the image of the company. On the other side you have disgruntled affiliates with genuine concerns.

This thread should be locked too, it's pointless, there was a huge one like this over at Digitalpoint too and it served no purpose either.

The thread should be locked not to stifle free speech or debate but precisely because these threads descend into unfounded rumours and personal attacks. I hope a mod will do the right thing.

[Nathan Hangen]

Sensible post...you are spot on.

The problem with a forum is that not every comment is taken the way it was intended, so naturally things get out of hand quickly. I'd hope that no one holds grudges about having a difference of opinion.

Still, I'd hate to see it locked up...if nothing else call it the "Pro-CB vent" thread and let another one exist as an "anti-CB vent" thread lol.

[Harvey Segal]

Originally Posted by John Taylor

Harvey started a thread that was designed to help folks
clear up some misconceptions.

Exactly John.

Originally Posted by Martin.Avis

On a matter of fact (and not aimed solely at you Nathan), I don't believe that Harvey or anyone else has said or even suggested that there are no problems at all with ClickBank.

Correct - I have never said that.

Originally Posted by Nathan Hangen

My only problem with the thread was that the title stated facts.

Nathan, please look at my opening post.
Items 1-7 are facts
Items 8-9 are suggestions

What is there that you consider not to be a fact ?

Originally Posted by Nathan Hangen

Again I will pose this question...if Harvey doesn't work for CB, then how does he have the facts or ability to clear up misconceptions?

All the facts 1-7 are publicly available.

Harvey


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