ClickBank - the real facts

[Harvey Segal]

Over the last few months there have been countless threads here at the
Warrior forum complaining of problems with the ClickBank system.

Unfortunately a good deal of what has been written has contained
inaccuracies, meaningless stats, guesswork and false statements.

Most regrettable of all are attacks on the integrity of ClickBank.

It's not surprising therefore that ClickBank's policy is not to
respond at the forum and get involved in such disputes.

So I thought it would help to answer some of the key issues raised.

(I'll be referring to ClickBank's visit last year to London to meet
with their clients which you can read about here
ClickBankSuccessForum.com :: View topic - ClickBank in London - 2008 )


1. ClickBank "shave off" affiliate commissions.

ClickBank makes the same amount of money whether a vendor or an
affiliate makes the sale. Shaving commission would be pointless.


2. ClickBank do not care about affiliates because they make the same
profit from any sale, affiliate or not.

The first statement made by ClickBank at the London meeting was
"We would not exist without our affiliates"

Affilates are now responsible for 75% of sales, a number that has
steadily risen over the past several years and means that affiliates
get more credit for sales now than at any time in ClickBank's history.

So in fact looking after their affiliates is of crucial importance.


3. The ClickBank system is outdated.

All the software has been completely rewritten from the ground up. The
hardware infrastructure as at last year was able to cater for 10 times
the growth.

There has been a whole catalog of new features and improvements added
to the system which you can read about in the Release Summaries
section of your account.


4. ClickBank has no competition so there is no incentive to improve their system.

No company can afford to stand still. Apart from the changes mentioned
above that have already been implemented ClickBank has hugely
ambitious plans for the future.


5. ClickBank tracking is faulty.

ClickBank uses cookie tracking to identify which affiliate gets credit
for a sale. Cookie tracking is perfectly reliable except for certain
situations outside of ClickBank's control due for example to
- browser security settings
- cookie blocking software
- antispyware

To cater for these exceptions ClickBank introduced a new technology
(supplemental hoplink tracking) in May 2007.


6. ClickBank ignore complaints about low sales and tracking issues and
pay no heed to their client concerns.

ClickBank monitors the forums closely and are fully aware of all the
issues.

The ClickBank system handles 24000 sales a day. That's one every 3.6
seconds. This vast number allows them to analyse in detail any
performance fluctuation and spot any unusual deviation.

Further when any new system feature is implemented it is run for an
hour or two, while checks are made, so that the changes can be quickly
reverted if necessary.


7. "I got someone to purchase and I did not get affiliate commission"

The true test is to check that the order form shows [affiliate=yourid]
which will ensure you get credit. If not the cookie has been lost or
blocked as per the reasons given in (5).


8. "My sales have slumped and it's due to problems at ClickBank"

First you need to recognise a proper slump.

If your sales have gone down from $100 a day to zero you need to
establish whether $100 came from 2 sales of $50 items or 20 sales of a
$5 item. i.e. the important figure is the number of sales.

If you only get 2 or 3 sales a day this figure is far too low to be of
any statistical significance.

If you were getting a substantial number of sales the next figure to
check is the volume of traffic to see whether this decreased by the
same proportion.

The actual statistic you should be looking at is the conversion rate
of visitors to sales.

If this has gone down there are a number of reasons
- financial climate
- seasonal factors
- competition from similar products

If you are an affiliate check for
- changes to the vendor site
- competition from other affiliates with better pre-sales tactics

Another possibility (hopefully rare) is that the vendor has tampered
with the order link at his site to steal affiliate commission.


9. ClickBank respond to problems with a standard template answer.

If you simply ask "why are my sales down" then you should expect a
standard answer.

You need to supply at the minimum details of the product(s) in
question, sales page or hoplink, history of traffic and conversion
figures.


Note: ClickBank assure us they are happy to investigate if you think
your affiliate ID is not being tracked through to the order form
(which would indicate a problem with cookies or potential vendor
wrongdoing). You need to provide hard evidence - the ideal would be
screenshots or screen capture videos.


Harvey


.

[Steven Wagenheim]

And in the immortal words of Bonnie Tyler...."Let The Show Begin"

This should be interesting.

Hey Roger...where's the popcorn?

[waken]

I Love CB Harvey! And I always do. Because there's where I started and my first online check came from CB.

BTW...need more details on below..
What is that new technology? Not hoplink?

Originally Posted by Harvey.Segal

5. ClickBank tracking is faulty.

ClickBank uses cookie tracking to identify which affiliate gets credit
for a sale. Cookie tracking is perfectly reliable except for certain
situations outside of ClickBank's control due for example to
- browser security settings
- cookie blocking software
- antispyware

To cater for these exceptions ClickBank introduced a new technology
(supplemental hoplink tracking) in May 2007.


Harvey
.

[Steven Wagenheim]

Harvey, all kidding aside now.

I hope you know that I think you're one of the brightest bulbs on the planet
when it comes to Clickbank. And even though I have been dealing with them
for over 6 years now, I still defer to you.

So no histrionics and no wild speculation.

Here's a simple fact. Take it for what it means to you.

A product that I did with another marketer just wasn't selling. At least I
couldn't see that it it was because the account is under his name.

So one day, just for the heck of it, I went to the site as if I were a customer
buying from an affiliate. I used the affiliate hop link instead of the main
URL.

When I clicked on the buy now button and went to the bottom of the
Clickbank payment page, I saw the following:

affiliate=none

Let me say right here and now that I have no anti spyware programs
and have no browser settings that should block any Clickbank cookies.

Also, I tested other hoplinks that same day just to make sure.

They all worked expect for that one.

I wish I had Camtasia'd the process so that I could show everybody.
Unfortunately, that was the only day it didn't work. By the time I got
around to contacting Clickbank, a few days later, the hop link was working
again.

I make no claims or accusations other than on the day in question, the
hoplink for that product wasn't working.

I am not going to guess or speculate as to how many other products might
have had the same problem that day or any other day for that matter.

But with my own eyes, I saw the Clickbank system not work, at least for
a day.

Take what you want from this.

I assure you that what I just reported is 100% accurate.

Again...there is no reason that hoplink should have not worked.

[Harvey Segal]

Originally Posted by waken

BTW...need more details on below..
What is that new technology? Not hoplink?

It is an additional method of checking - ClickBank do not
reveal the technology involved.

Harvey

[JayXtreme]

Soo... Harvey..

What you're basically saying is:

Clickbank is out to get us all????

I knew we'd get to the bottom of it

Peace

Jay

[ShayRockhold]

Originally Posted by TMG Enterprises

Tina G

PS. I'm with Steve and the popcorn is popping as I type.

[grumpyb]

My thanks to Harvey,
I had dismissed Click Bank from my forward planning as a direct result of reading negative reports here on Warrior.
Your well presented post taking an unemotional proffessional and factual look at the issues has answered many questions that have been raised in this forum.
I am gratefull for this kind of post as it is very valuable in my learning curve.

[garyv]

Another positive note for clickbank - I just noticed today that they've added a live help link to my account page.


edit: - OK now it's gone. They must be doing some experimenting w/ that one.

[Harvey Segal]

Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim

I hope you know that I think you're one of the brightest bulbs on the planet when it comes to Clickbank.

WATT a compliment

Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim

But with my own eyes, I saw the Clickbank system not work, at least for
a day.

Obviously I can't answer this. It's a pity you could not contact
ClickBank on the day as it happened.

Harvey

[Steven Wagenheim]

Originally Posted by Harvey.Segal

WATT a compliment


Obviously I can't answer this. It's a pity you could not contact
ClickBank on the day as it happened.

Harvey

I will say this though Harvey, on the day I did contact Jen, she did everything
she could to try to trouble shoot the problem with me.

She asked me for the day in question and what IP address I went to the
site from and the exact step by step procedure I used for going to the site
and submitted everything to the programmers.

They were unable to find anything out of the ordinary on that hoplink for
that day from my IP.

I assure you though, if it happens again, I will be making a video of the
whole process and sending it to them.

[mywebwork]

Note to self - be really nice to Harvey in the future or he might delete all of my posts!



Paranoid nonsense aside this is a really great post and I'm glad you posted it. With all the recent threads slamming Clickbanks integrity it had me concerned about using them as an affiliate processor for an upcoming product release. Your detailed post has eliminated any skepticism I may have had. And I'm not just saying that to protect my posts!

Now if only you could clear up all the nasty rumors about PayPal that have been circulating here recently...


Bill

[Jeremy Kelsall]

Harvey, good info....

But, can you include a bullet point in this that would explain why opening a new account will "magically" make your sales appear again?

This isn't just something that has happened to me,but to at least 10 other warriors as well. I'd be interested to know how yourself or clickbank might explain this weird happening.

Jeremy

[Michael Oksa]

Harvey, there's no sense trying to confuse the issue with logic!

[Lloyd Buchinski]

Originally Posted by TMG Enterprises

Wow, Harvey, I think this is the first serious post I've read of yours. When you do it, you certainly do it up right.

Tina G

PS. I'm with Steve and the popcorn is popping as I type.

I'm used to seeing jokes or questions from his posts and was also impressed by the difference in this one. The questions btw were inspirational. I'm a bit hesitant to admit I don't know everything and his questions were one of a few pushes that were needed to get me out of that "I'm going to completely do it myself" mode.

But I'll probably pass on the popcorn. Of course that's easy to say when I'm keeping a double brandy company.

Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim

When I clicked on the buy now button and went to the bottom of the
Clickbank payment page, I saw the following:

affiliate=none

(skipped portion)

I make no claims or accusations other than on the day in question, the
hoplink for that product wasn't working.

I'm not at all trying to attack but it seemed that you just tried that once? If you did try it a second or more times that day you didn't mention it. And then that single time grew into the "day" it wasn't working? If it was just a single time of course that wouldn't be nice but it wouldn't be a substantial criticism. Describing it as not working that day makes it sound like a lot more than that time.

Again I'm not even trying to attack or criticize. I noticed about grade 3 that one person who talked a lot contradicted himself about 3 days after his first statement, and I thought it must be hard to keep track of everything you say when you talk a lot. And it just seems that anyone who handles the language as much as you do would have a lot more to keep track of and to keep everything lined up.

So I spent a lot of time reading forums when I first got on line, and threads criticizing CB were so common, and usually seemed to have such poor logic that it didn't take long to start skipping over them. And now that there is a positive thread about CB, I guess the internet has seen everything.

best wishes, lloyd

Edit: Steve, I reread your post more slowly and my impression now is that you probably did check it repeatedly, but feel free to sort me out either way.

[Jeremy Kelsall]

Michael,

Originally Posted by Michael Oksa

Harvey, there's no sense trying to confuse the issue with logic!

Unless you have had some of the issues that some of us have had with the "tracking system" or lack thereof, you might not be a good judge of what "logic" is and isn't in this particular case.

For anyone that has had NO issues and gets credited with each and everyone of their sales, I'm happy for you. Unfortunately, there is a fairly large number of Warriors and other Marketers in general that feel that they have gotten the shaft and not been credited with all of the money that might be due to them.

[pearsonbrown]

"This isn't just something that has happened to me,but to at least 10 other warriors as well."

Jeremy, the problem is that your statistics don't mean very much. How many other Warriors have tried the technique and not had any sales? How many others have decided against using the technique and then had a sale anyway?

It's not an unusual event for you to get a sale. The fact it happened after you changed an account could just be down to coincidence.

What is needed is a serious study of this. If we could get together 20 to 40 Warriors who all tried this at the same time, the results would carry much more weight.

Pearson

[Droopy Dawg]

Now here's a good question because I've read many posts about people creating a new account, then their sales pick back up...

Originally Posted by Jeremy Kelsall

Harvey, good info....

But, can you include a bullet point in this that would explain why opening a new account will "magically" make your sales appear again?

This isn't just something that has happened to me,but to at least 10 other warriors as well. I'd be interested to know how yourself or clickbank might explain this weird happening.

Jeremy

[Michael Oksa]

Originally Posted by Jeremy Kelsall

Michael,



Unless you have had some of the issues that some of us have had with the "tracking system" or lack thereof, you might not be a good judge of what "logic" is and isn't in this particular case.

For anyone that has had NO issues and gets credited with each and everyone of their sales, I'm happy for you. Unfortunately, there is a fairly large number of Warriors and other Marketers in general that feel that they have gotten the shaft and not been credited with all of the money that might be due to them.

Sorry, Jeremy, that was my attempt at humor.

It was a logical approach, but I didn't want to get into my past experiences in this thread.

I appreciate hearing the company line on the matter, but I have had problems, too. It's just nice to hear the other side, whether I buy into it completely or not remains undecided.

All the best,
Michael

[Harvey Segal]

OK, here is a SuperTip

When you respond to post at a forum make sure that you quote the
important parts of the post so that the author cannot backtrack and
change it.

Therefore I present to you the following so that it remains here
forever and you can judge the intelligence of the author in this and
all her other anti-ClickBank tirades

Originally Posted by alexa_s

This is certainly the most blatant promotion I've ever seen allowed in this part of the forum.

Harvey


.

[pearsonbrown]

"Now here's a good question because I've read many posts about people creating a new account, then their sales pick back up... "

You've read "many posts" - but only written by a few people.

The only way to test out this claim is to run a proper trial with a large number of Warriors.

Pearson

PS alexa is a HE not a SHE

[Droopy Dawg]

Originally Posted by pearsonbrown

"Now here's a good question because I've read many posts about people creating a new account, then their sales pick back up... "

You've read "many posts" - but only written by a few people.

The only way to test out this claim is to run a proper trial with a large number of Warriors.

Pearson

PS alexa is a HE not a SHE

I don't understand the "alexa" comment... but Jeremy said that he saw at least 10... even if I only saw 6... that's still "many"... even if only 3 people made the comment.

GOD Bless,

DeShon

[Jagged]

Originally Posted by R Hagel

I've heard that if your [posts]aren't showing up under one account/username, you can open up another account and your [posts] will start showing up again.

Insert "ClickBank Sales" where ever you see the word "Posts"

Sound Familiar? lol

[Trader54]

Originally Posted by R Hagel

I've heard that if your posts aren't showing up under one account/username, you can open up another account and your posts will start showing up again.

Would you go as far to say Harvey is skimming and adding those to his post total?

[Steven Wagenheim]

Originally Posted by Lloyd Buchinski

Edit: Steve, I reread your post more slowly and my impression now is that you probably did check it repeatedly, but feel free to sort me out either way.

Yes Lloyd, I checked many times THAT day because I wanted to make sure
I wasn't seeing things.

However, after that day, I let it drop until I finally wrote my JV partner
and told him that there was a problem with the link.

After I wrote him, I then wrote Clickbank and THEN I checked it again,
expecting the problem to still be a problem. I never thought it would
magically clear up.

My mistake was not making a video of the process the day I spotted it.

I promise you, I will NEVER make that mistake again.

[Josh Anderson]

Cookie tracking is perfectly reliable except for certain
situations outside of ClickBank's control due for example to
- browser security settings
- cookie blocking software
- antispyware

Why did you use the word "perfectly" in that statement?

Every other point you made is great... but this point alone is the hugest flaw in clickbank and always has.

It accounts for more loss in affiliate commissions than any other element.

To rely on cookie tracking alone is one of the biggest errors in affiliate tracking today.

Any affiliate management solution relying on cookie tracking alone is inviting the issues you listed as well as affiliate theft and adware/cookie hijacking issues.

Cookie tracking is not "perfectly reliable" in fact without combining it with IP and other forms of tracking it is "perfectly" unreliable.

[Matt Maiden]

For anyone that has made a comment about Harvey's post and promotion...

The reason Harvey made his post is because outside of Clickbank I don't believe there is anyone more knowledgeable about Clickbank.

Harvey has been studying and creating products about Clickbank since the beginning.
It happens that he has products about Clickbank because he is so knowledgeable.

I don't see anything but his expert opinion about the situation.

His statements were not made to promote anything except a little common sense.

[TheCren]

Clickbank doesn't "just" rely on cookie tracking. They claim to have other technology that tracks a user's purchase as well. Now it's impossible for this tracking to be perfect, but multiple systems is a step up from what other networks do (which is solely cookie-based).

I can think of two ways to find out if a user has made a purchase via affiliate link:
1) Obtain the user's IP address when they come to the site and associate that IP with the affiliate link in a Clickbank database. This way it's stored persistently, the user cannot delete it or prevent it from happening at all.
2) Use session variables. The user again has no control over what CB would do with these, but when the browser session has ended so have the affiliate's chances at commission.

Those are 2 ideas that I was able to come up with on the fly, however, Clickbank does not mention the "technology" they actually use in addition to cookie-based tracking. No form of tracking is ever going to be perfect. Not until the government starts putting chips in our arms and tracking literally everything. Ahhhh, a marketer's dream (and yet a nightmare at the same time).

[Aaron Moser]

Didn't know CB had a policy against getting involved in forum threads. So that's why they never speak up. I just thought they were being shady. Makes sense now I guess. But they could of at least came forward with some kind of public statement letting all the affiliate who work hard for them know all is well. They're silence is hurting them in this case I believe. If it were my company that was under scrutiny like CB is right now I'd be doing some serious damage control.

I just wish they were more transparent as a company.

[Harvey Segal]

Originally Posted by Josh Anderson

Why did you use the word "perfectly" in that statement?

Josh

I think it's valid to say "perfectly reliable with the exception of ...".
in any situation.

Harvey

[Alexa Smith]

perfectly reliable except for certain situations outside of ClickBank's control due for example to - browser security settings - cookie blocking software - antispyware

In other words "don't expect to get paid reliably for the effort, skills, time and money you've put into promoting Clickbank products, but when you don't, rest assured that it's never within Clickbank's control"!!

[Harvey Segal]

Originally Posted by Harvey.Segal

Josh

I think it's valid to say "perfectly reliable with the exception of ...".
in any situation.

Harvey

I omitted to say that the exceptions are handled by
the supplemental hoplink tracking technology mentioned
in point 5.

Harvey

[George Sepich]

Originally Posted by Jeremy Kelsall

Harvey, good info....

But, can you include a bullet point in this that would explain why opening a new account will "magically" make your sales appear again?

This isn't just something that has happened to me,but to at least 10 other warriors as well. I'd be interested to know how yourself or clickbank might explain this weird happening.

Jeremy

Jeremy's post is the most important one in this whole thread IMO, and a solid answer to his concerns from Harvey, or Clickbank or the Alien Beings in control of CB that test and track us more than the ones in John Taylors dreams would be a nice addition to this thread.

George

[Kevin Lam]

I'm glad I bought a box of 20 popcorn bags. This is going to be a blast. Thanks, Harvey, for such a wonderful post.

[Jeremy Kelsall]

George,

Originally Posted by George Sepich

Jeremy's post is the most important one in this whole thread IMO, and a solid answer to his concerns from Harvey, or Clickbank or the Alien Beings in control of CB that test and track us more than the ones in John Taylors dreams would be a nice addition to this thread.

George

Nobody will answer that concern or the question in general...At the end of the day for the most part people here know that it is true and that it does happen.

I've tested it
JayXtreme has tested it
Steve Wagenheim has tested it
about 5 people in the other thread tested it and posted results before the thread was deleted.

If this is just one big coincidence I'll give myself a flushy

I'm not saying that clickbank is doing anything "wrong" -- what I am saying though is that there is a problem with tracking and that I don't care who says that there isn't. I've seen it with my own eyes and gotten confirmation from other people as well that have no reason to exaggerate or make up their results.

The tracking appears to be flawed.

I can understand why someone from clickbank doesn't put out an email confirming this...hell, you would have every person who has ever sent one hop to clickbank claiming that they have been ripped off. So, it's understandable that they will not address the issue.

I like ClickBank and I like how easy they make it to promote their products. Bottom line is, I hope that some how -- some way that some type of solution can be found and implemented as time progresses.

[Harvey Segal]

Originally Posted by George Sepich

Jeremy's post is the most important one in this whole thread IMO, and a solid answer to his concerns from Harvey, or Clickbank or the Alien Beings in control of CB that test and track us more than the ones in John Taylors dreams would be a nice addition to this thread.

George

Pearson Brown has answered this.

Originally Posted by pearsonbrown

"This isn't just something that has happened to me,but to at least 10 other warriors as well."

Jeremy, the problem is that your statistics don't mean very much. How many other Warriors have tried the technique and not had any sales? How many others have decided against using the technique and then had a sale anyway?

It's not an unusual event for you to get a sale. The fact it happened after you changed an account could just be down to coincidence.

You need solid evidence: for each account when it is opened,
traffic patterns, conversion stats etc


Harvey

[R Hagel]

Originally Posted by Trader54

Would you go as far to say Harvey is skimming and adding those to his post total?

Yes. Yes I would.

Also, sometimes when I log onto the forum it says [Welcome, Harvey.Segal] instead of [Welcome, R Hagel]. I am suspicious.

[Harvey Segal]

Originally Posted by R Hagel

Also, sometimes when I log onto the forum, it says [Welcome, Harvey.Segal] instead of my [Welcome, R Hagel]. I am suspicious.

Notice how all the letters of your name are included in mine. That could explain it.


.

[Neil S]

I will admit that there is definitely too much hysteria about Clickbank right now. The problem is when 25% of the claims are legitimate, it simply feeds the hysteria of others. Then nobody knows whether their product is not converting or if Clickbank is not tracking the sales.

There IS something wrong with Clickbank. After testing the same products through Clickbank and other affiliate networks, conversions would be 4-5x HIGHER elsewhere. After 1000 hops (with same traffic, sales page, ect) I had 6 sales through Clickbank and 29 sales through another network for the same product.

In total this was the difference between making $180 and $900.

For a smaller fish that is a rather huge difference in money.

This cannot be a simple sales fluctuation. I don't believe Clickbank has some secret agenda either. The simple fact is that either their tracking system or payment processor is faulty.

And the fact that there is a problem simply inflates the fears of others, making everyone think they are a victim.

[ahefner33]

I would like to say this though. I don't defend or endorse Clickbank. But when you pay 5 of your online friends from all parts of the US to buy your product from your affiliate link, making sure that ALL barriers (popup blockers, adware blockers, virus scans etc....) are disabled, and you only get credited for two of them, how do you explain it? Again, I'm not here to argue and judge somebody elses statements but all egos aside, how do you justify this happening?

AH

[Jeremy Kelsall]

Pearson,

Originally Posted by pearsonbrown

Jeremy, the problem is that your statistics don't mean very much. How many other Warriors have tried the technique and not had any sales? How many others have decided against using the technique and then had a sale anyway?

Pearson

If it happened once, I would agree that it could be coincidence...However, I now have more clickbank accounts than I can count.

If I am making hundreds of dollars a day on an account and then it completely dries up for a 7 day period or longer and I switch accounts and get my old conversions back -- MULTIPLE TIMES. I would think that you would have to be extremely naive to think that this is coincidence.

[AdamWB]

Harvey,

Sounds like you are referring to one of the threads I started earlier - it got quite the attention.

Anyhow - If you recalled my initial post - I stated that I was testing the tracking system for faults. I had a few of my friends purchase a clickbank product that I suspected to be cheating me, through my hoplink of course. (no refunds were issued, the test was done strictly at my own expense).

The bottom line was that there were obvious sales not accounted for. I received the transaction #'s from my friends, sent them into clickbanks email system, and got a canned response 2 weeks later. Nothing was resolved. I was very professional with them, hence they had no reason to blow me off.

I'm not sure how much more PROOF you can get than that.

THEN as per the advice of a few respected warriors, I opened up another clickbank account. Within the hour my sales were back to normal. I don't consider myself a super clickbank guru, but my sales aren't as low as 2-3 per day either. I say this because you said in your initial post that 2-3 sales per day isn't enough to justify a faulty system. You've got to be incredibly dense to not realize that this wasn't a coincidence. Especially when MANY people are watching the EXACT SAME THING happen with their accounts.

And like I said in my earlier thread - I have absolutely nothing to gain from fabricating this information. I'm sorry but my time is much more valuable than that. In fact I WISH I were wrong, my bank account can attest to that.

The fact is, I'm not. I'm not part of a mass conspiracy on a special campaign to attack Clickbank.

As far as who or what is at fault, its really anyone's guess. My personal belief is that they are not shaving sales, but they are having technical issues - and are choosing to ignore and/or deny the issues. I don't say this to be rude - but to believe or say otherwise is being downright ignorant.

[Bruce Wedding]

Originally Posted by Harvey.Segal

1. ClickBank "shave off" affiliate commissions.

ClickBank makes the same amount of money whether a vendor or an affiliate makes the sale. Shaving commission would be pointless.

I've seen this stated several times and it always strikes me as odd. I don't have a horse in the race but let me show you something, ok?

Customer A purchases ebook for $47 using Affiliate X's hoplink.

Affiliate Marketplace strips the hoplink and fails to credit and pay Affiliate X his $23.50

Affiliate Marketplace pays product owner his $23.50 - fees.

Now who can't see that affiliate marketplace is up $23.50?

[Jeremy Kelsall]

Bruce,

Originally Posted by Bruce Wedding

I've seen this stated several times and it always strikes me as odd. I don't have a horse in the race but let me show you something, ok?

Customer A purchases ebook for $47 using Affiliate X's hoplink.

Affiliate Marketplace strips the hoplink and fails to pay Affiliate X is $23.50

Affiliate Marketplace pays product owner his $23.50 - fees.

Now who can't see that affiliate marketplace is up $23.50?

Nice try!!! But havn't you heard???? ClickBank is above mistakes

Seriously, their tracking system is flawless -- as a matter of fact, often times they credit you for multiple sales with no hops at all.

Everyone that is buying their product through their own links and not getting credit and opening new accounts to get their old conversion rates back on accounts that had completely dried up are making it all up.

[Trader54]

Originally Posted by Bruce Wedding

I've seen this stated several times and it always strikes me as odd. I don't have a horse in the race but let me show you something, ok?

Customer A purchases ebook for $47 using Affiliate X's hoplink.

Affiliate Marketplace strips the hoplink and fails to credit and pay Affiliate X his $23.50

Affiliate Marketplace pays product owner his $23.50 - fees.

Now who can't see that affiliate marketplace is up $23.50?

The product owner sees who the affiliate is or gets the full product price.

[Bruce Wedding]

Originally Posted by Trader54

The product owner sees who the affiliate is or gets the full product price.

I realize that, but that doesn't mean the affiliate is a "real" affiliate.

Keep in mind, I'm not saying CB is doing this. I'm just saying, there is a big logical flaw in the argument saying that they don't stand to profit.

[Trader54]

Originally Posted by Bruce Wedding

I realize that, but that doesn't mean the affiliate is a "real" affiliate.

.

And what proof do you have that happens???

Thats laughable.

[Jeremy Kelsall]

trader,

Originally Posted by Trader54

And what proof do you have that happens???

Thats laughable.

He already said that he had no proof -- he also already stated that he didn't imply that clickbank was doing it. He only said that it is possible.

[Bryan Zimmerman]

I know Steve talked about it in a few post up but here's the day that a whole **** load of people saw the [affiliate=none] problem.

Check your affiliate link if you are promoting Strip The Fat

This can go back and forth all day and has for a few weeks now. Problem is nothing is going to change, it is what it is. Clickbank knows about these threads, won't answer about it and thats it.

I'm on the side that there is a problem but thats just my opinion. But to continue to have one of these threads every other day is not doing a damn bit of good. Some will say there isn't a problem and others will say there is. Would do everybody some good to just get back to work or start working on making and selling your own products.

This thread sure isn't making any one any money that I know of.

[Trader54]

Originally Posted by Jeremy Kelsall

trader,



He already said that he had no proof -- he also already stated that he didn't imply that clickbank was doing it. He only said that it is possible.

Yes true but I think accusations like that undermine what you say.

I believe that you feel there is a problem, but when someone like that
makes unfounded claims it undermines what you say and makes the whole
thing like frivolous just like in the previous thread when someone made some
doctored clickbank stats. From your point of view those are the last type
of posters I would want on my side.