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Launching Product - How To Get Affiliates?

by proguy7
48 replies
Can anyone give me some tips on getting affiliates involved in my product?

It's not an IM based product, so I can't do a WSO!

You can have a look: www.roulettegod.com | Roulette Strategy From A Professional Player .

I basically helped a friend develop a membership site for his product, as he is going into semi-retirement and wanted to put his knowledge out there for others. It also gives him something to do, I suppose, as he only plays roulette part time now.

I am the more tech savvy one, but I am not a marketing expert by any means!

Thanks guys and gals.
#affiliates #launching #product
  • Profile picture of the author MartinPlatt
    Originally Posted by proguy7 View Post

    Can anyone give me some tips on getting affiliates involved in my product?

    It's not an IM based product, so I can't do a WSO!

    You can have a look: www.roulettegod.com | Roulette Strategy From A Professional Player .

    I basically helped a friend develop a membership site for his product, as he is going into semi-retirement and wanted to put his knowledge out there for others. It also gives him something to do, I suppose, as he only plays roulette part time now.

    I am the more tech savvy one, but I am not a marketing expert by any means!

    Thanks guys and gals.
    You can put your product on clickbank, that will get a lot of affiliates signing up.

    Also contact people who sell similar sorts of products, and ask them.

    If you and your mate are completely unknown, then you might want to promote some of the similar products first, then when the owner sees that you're making sales, they're more likely to help you out too.
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  • Profile picture of the author proguy7
    Thanks for the reply.

    What do you mean by "promote some of the similar products first"? You mean products not created by us?

    I had always thought Clickbank was a bit of a meat market...the other problem is a 60 day money back guarantee. Can't get around that one, right?

    Thanks.
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    • Profile picture of the author Paul Hooper-Kelly
      Hi proguy7,

      If you want to get an army of affiliates to sell your product, then you will need to put in some grunt work, because anyone with a decent mailing list will be inundated with requests to sell other folk's stuff.

      For that reason, I suggest considering using JVZoo, rather than ClickBank. JVZoo sell a ton of other products, other than IM, and they have two big advantages for you over ClickBank:
      • You get contact with your affiliates, so you can help them out and encourage them. There's no direct contact with ClickBank.
      • You aren't limited to the 75% commission, as you are with ClickBank.
      But you will need to be very active recruiting your own affiliates. And you'll find that only about 5% will actually produce a meaningful amount of sales.

      Martin's idea about promoting other folk's products to build up a relationship with them to get them to sell your product to their list is a good one. But, in your case, it would mean you have to start from scratch and start to attract prospects and turn them into buyers.

      So, on balance, it might be more productive for you to promote your own product from the start.

      Then, when you have built up a list of buyers of your product, you can put the cherry on the cake by become an affiliate for anyone else who has a good product in your niche. Then you won't need to build much of a relationship with the other product owners - because they'll be delighted to have you do that.

      Warmest regards,

      Paul
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  • Profile picture of the author proguy7
    Thanks for your post, Paul.

    I will have a look at JVZoo...let's hope it doesn't have a stupid refund guarantee like Click Bank!
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    • Profile picture of the author Paul Hooper-Kelly
      Hi proguy7,

      Glad you like my advice. So sorry to inject a sour note ...

      Thanks for your post, Paul.

      I will have a look at JVZoo...let's hope it doesn't have a stupid refund guarantee like Click Bank!
      The sixty day guarantee is pretty much universal, because it is a legal requirement (Distance selling regulations etc). So it's not JVZoo, so much as PayPal (JVZoo's payment processor) that sets that.

      But don't worry about it. Make a virtue of it.

      And when you are promoting your product state loud and clear that you are so confident they will LOVE this that you are backing it with a sixty day 'Love it - or your money back' guarantee.

      Sure, you'll get a few crooks, but these will be outweighted by the extra sales you'll make, because you offer such a strong guarantee.

      Warmest regards,

      Paul
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  • Profile picture of the author wakey7
    Would you recommend JVZoo over RAP Bank?
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    • Profile picture of the author Paul Hooper-Kelly
      Would you recommend JVZoo over RAP Bank?
      Both of these are good and both allow a higher percentage of affiliate commission to be paid to your affiliates than ClickBank, which is an important part of attracting good affiliates with quality lists.

      Warmest regards,

      Paul
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      If you want to stack the copywriting deck in your favor with tricks and hacks producing winners like: "$20K in three days" "650 sold" "30% conversion", then you might like to know I'm retiring and will spill the beans to two people. More info here.
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    • Profile picture of the author malcsimm
      Originally Posted by wakey7 View Post

      Would you recommend JVZoo over RAP Bank?
      A lot of affiliates don't like RapBank because of the way they pay commissions - "one for me, one for you" type of thing. No real logic to that dislike but that's the fact.

      As for getting JVs, that is the hard part of launching a product. (Well, one of the hard parts LOL.) Do you spend out and get a JV broker? Someone who introduces you to relevant JVs (supposedly) and gets them to mail for you? Obviously, them take a skim - 10-20% - plus a payment up front. So it's important to have a backend that makes money.

      It's not all bad avoiding a WSO as you will be able to charge a higher price other things being equal as WSO-buyers are trained to expect low prices.

      Getting JVs, and getting to know relevant brokers, is all about networking. Get out there and talk to everybody and anybody and ask their views and get recommendations. Go to IM forums to find the marketers and ask how they would do it. And sign up for all the similar products and see how they are marketing and, if you can, who is helping them.

      Contact the owners of such products and see if they are chatty.

      And think laterally about other niches that will probably take to your product - eg think about the demographics of your target audience and look for other audiences with similar demographics. Eg check Quantcast and Alexa for a competitors site.

      Finally, although I am talking here about doing a product launch, there is also the other approach of havingt an evergreen site. It's quicker, easier, and cheaper to set that up first anyway. Get your funnel right (with your backend in place) and test conversions. Then you can buy traffic once you know your profit per click.

      Eg from adswaps, if you have a small list already (500+) or solo ads if not. Test and measure, test and measure. It makes sense to do this anyway and tweak your conversions before doing any product launch.

      Oh - one more thing. Some JV brokers will not get you a good result. And some people giving you advice about launching are talking through their ar*e. Just stating the obvious: but be cautious and double check everything. With JV brokers - treble or quadruple check before paying them lots of money.

      Good luck!

      Malc :-)
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  • Profile picture of the author TanyaRebrov
    Well I think it will be better for you to sell your product with clickbank. As we know that competition is really tight in clickbank right now, I think more IM expert marketer is using clickback for their affiliate marketing platform.
    And you don't need to worry about the 60 days money back guarantee, as long as you confidence with your product then you will be okay. This system is exist to prevent spam product and thus you will okay, right mate?
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  • Profile picture of the author proguy7
    Paul, distance selling regulations?

    I thought Paypal's guarantees only kicked-on for physical products, not virtual.
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    • Profile picture of the author Paul Hooper-Kelly
      Hi poguy7,

      Unfortunately not. Although, if a buyer requests a refund from ClickBank, it's automatically given after two business days, whereas with PayPal they hold an 'inquest' first.

      But don't get hung up on worrying about refunds. If you have a good product, most folks are honest and won't request a refund. If you're that concerned, then consider making the product a password protected membership site (even for a one off payment).

      As you say:
      It also gives him something to do, I suppose, as he only plays roulette part time now.
      So your friend might want to add extra tips and tricks over time, which will encourage folks to hand in there and not refund. And - if they request a refund - you simply delete them from the membership database.

      Warmest regards,

      Paul
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      • Profile picture of the author tagiscom
        Hi poguy7,

        Unfortunately not. Although if a buyer requests a refund from ClickBank, it's automatically given after two business days, whereas with PayPal they hold an 'inquest' first.

        But don't get hung up on worrying about refunds. If you have a good product, most folks are honest and won't request a refund. If you're that concerned, then consider making the product a password protected membership site (even for a one off payment).
        Arrmmm, almost! Usually when someone asks for a refund, you click on the Refund button, near the persons, details in Paypal, and its done!

        But, if they reverse the Credit Card payment, (as l went through recently) then Paypal will lock up or freeze your account until it is fixed.

        And if you think that it is an error, the ID number wont work, for the more details link, so PP doesn't refund immediately.

        Best to refund immediately, otherwise you will stuff around for so long, you will lose sales!

        Or sales will still go through, but the customer won't get their link or product!


        So, PP is good for refunds, a bit of a pain for chargbacks, unless you know what link to click, the "customer didn't receive the product, and l am issuing a refund" is the one to click, to resolve it quickly!

        Shane
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  • Profile picture of the author proguy7
    Paul, I agree with your advice about the 60 day money back guarantee.

    I just know that some people will take the piss, and try and get as much as possible for free!

    That's a business cost in a way.
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  • Profile picture of the author proguy7
    Thank you all for your input.

    I will see how it goes with JVZOO.

    Does anyone know of a reliable website for solo ads? That could be another thing to try.

    Cheers.
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  • Profile picture of the author Jason Perez O'Connor
    You can certainly do a WSO on this. It's still a money making method!

    Just please tell me it's on beating real casino roulette wheels and not online. Because you can't beat online roulette tables. But I know that in many casinos there are dealers who have signature moves or through careful watching you can determine where the ball can land.

    I did it where I use to live in Luton I was told I couldn't play at the roulette table after turning my £5 into £200. However, I did tell him how I was doing so well! lol.

    Tip: Don't assume the dealer is on your side after a few friendly chats
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  • Profile picture of the author proguy7
    That must have been because they expected you to hit them big. Silly move, my friend, but interesting nonetheless.

    Yes, indeed, it's for a real roulette wheel...each wheel has its own characteristics, as does the environment.

    It's not as simple as you mentioned, but you are on the right track.

    One thing: isn't a WSO dirt cheap? I wouldn't want the product to be devalued, if you know what I mean.

    Cheers.
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    • Profile picture of the author Jason Perez O'Connor
      Originally Posted by proguy7 View Post

      That must have been because they expected you to hit them big. Silly move, my friend, but interesting nonetheless.

      Yes, indeed, it's for a real roulette wheel...each wheel has its own characteristics, as does the environment.

      It's not as simple as you mentioned, but you are on the right track.

      One thing: isn't a WSO dirt cheap? I wouldn't want the product to be devalued, if you know what I mean.

      Cheers.
      I wasn't doing it to hit them big or anything, though perhaps they did expect it. I was out for a birthday with my now ex gf, and as the dealer was friendly I let him in on the fact that he was continuously using the same technique (I assumed he would just change the way he was doing it, not stop me altogether LOL). I was playing Dozens, and I got a rhythm for knowing where it would land depending on his release and spin.

      I've read that there is a more sophisticated method for getting more precise selections, but the extent of my knowledge was reading that many dealers had signature moves and used certain force, and that you could work out roughly where it could land on most occasions by keeping a close eye.

      And I know those who specialize in it do well offline, but I've tried online roulette, using every system under the sun, even my own methods, and eventually EVERY online site hits a bad run of 10-11-12-13-14 or more of the same type in a row, and it ruins you.

      So I was just making sure it wasn't for online roulette, because from experience I know it can't be beat
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  • Profile picture of the author Jason Perez O'Connor
    Forgot to add, a WSO is just a discounted figure for us warriors. It doesn't have to be a huge discount, just a discount that is otherwise not available on your site.

    Put it this way, a lot of the traffic here you may never get on your website. BY selling on your site, and on here, you're taking advantage of the traffic and making money you might otherwise not have made.

    See it this way:

    "I don't want to sell here cheaper because it's worth more, so I'd rather make less and sell it for more by selling it to people who visit my site".

    Whereas I would say:

    "I'll take advantage of the instant traffic here and sell it slightly cheaper, gathering testimonials and building my list and affiliates, AND I'll make even more money from my main site selling it for more to visitors".

    You see how this could help you?
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  • Profile picture of the author proguy7
    That's an interesting story, which casino chain was it?

    Well, my friend bets on only straight up bets...that's where the real money is to be made.

    Thanks for your advice - I will have to see how to do a WSO, then! More work...hah!
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  • Profile picture of the author Jason Perez O'Connor
    It was this one:

    https://plus.google.com/103298270003...gl=GB&hl=en-GB

    Grosvener Casino

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  • Profile picture of the author Stuart Walker
    And I know those who specialize in it do well offline, but I've tried online roulette, using every system under the sun, even my own methods, and eventually EVERY online site hits a bad run of 10-11-12-13-14 or more of the same type in a row, and it ruins you.

    So I was just making sure it wasn't for online roulette, because from experience I know it can't be beat
    There is no system to beat online roulette, take it from someone who used to make a lot of money from online gambling. I wouldn't be surprised if your 'offline' system was just luck either, turning £5 into £200 isn't anything exceptional and if you really knew a way to guarantee results you would have made a lot more than £200 from it, surely?

    You get runs of luck and it's easy to see a 'pattern' develop that isn't really there. I know a guy who played online blackjack for over a year and was convinced he had figured out the pattern to it. He kept on winning month after month until he didn't anymore and realised it was all just luck. There is no pattern to the way the numbers come out or the cards land. The only way you can beat it is with odds and that only really works online when you receive bonuses, not offline when you're playing with your own money (unless you can card count but that's near impossible in most casinos these days).
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    • Profile picture of the author Jason Perez O'Connor
      Originally Posted by RockingLastsForever View Post

      There is no system to beat online roulette, take it from someone who used to make a lot of money from online gambling. I wouldn't be surprised if your 'offline' system was just luck either, turning £5 into £200 isn't anything exceptional and if you really knew a way to guarantee results you would have made a lot more than £200 from it, surely?

      You get runs of luck and it's easy to see a 'pattern' develop that isn't really there. I know a guy who played online blackjack for over a year and was convinced he had figured out the pattern to it. He kept on winning month after month until he didn't anymore and realised it was all just luck. There is no pattern to the way the numbers come out or the cards land. The only way you can beat it is with odds and that only really works online when you receive bonuses, not offline when you're playing with your own money (unless you can card count but that's near impossible in most casinos these days).
      I don't think you read my post properly or the OP, or focused on the names. I'm not the owner of this program, and I don't promote any roulette program.

      And I also said I've tested everything under the sun for online roulette and know that you can't beat it.

      I do however know that you can beat roulette in live casinos, based on the roulette wheels, the dealer and other reasons. What I did was exploit what the dealer was repeatedly doing the same. I was wagering 1 pound a time, and I wasn't doubling up each time, so I did this for hours on end before finally spilling. I still got it wrong sometimes, but I was right far more times than wrong because it was predictable, unlike online roulette which is just a random number generator.

      I don't even claim to make a living from it LOL. It was just a night out with my now ex gf, where I started with £5 and took it to £200 before I told the dealer. Otherwise I could have made more

      I also wouldn't be able to go into just any casino and make money from a roulette, as I'm not trained in this or anything. The dealer was just pretty sh*t and predictable. I got lucky in that sense, but knowing where the ball would land was not luck. It's not easy to do, but I also know that there are pros who do this for a living, moving from casino to casino successfully, so I know it works.
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  • Profile picture of the author Stuart Walker
    I don't think you read my post properly or the OP, or focused on the names. I'm not the owner of this program, and I don't promote any roulette program.
    I read and understood your post. Nowhere did I say you owned this program or promoted one.

    And I also said I've tested everything under the sun for online roulette and know that you can't beat it.
    You said you'd tried every system under the sun I was just pointing out it was pointless as it's not a beatable game unless it's rigged in your favor or there's some sort of bug.

    I do however know that you can beat roulette in live casinos, based on the roulette wheels, the dealer and other reasons. What I did was exploit what the dealer was repeatedly doing the same. I was wagering 1 pound a time, and I wasn't doubling up each time, so I did this for hours on end before finally spilling. I still got it wrong sometimes, but I was right far more times than wrong because it was predictable, unlike online roulette which is just a random number generator.

    I don't even claim to make a living from it LOL. It was just a night out with my now ex gf, where I started with £5 and took it to £200 before I told the dealer. Otherwise I could have made more
    Seriously, this was probably luck. You were on a night out, a little drunk, it's easy when you are winning to start thinking that you've spotted a pattern and can exploit it. Just because you got it right more times than wrong means nothing, it happens...it's called luck. If you truly believed that you could beat the system would not be playing £1 per spin.

    I'm not sure whether it is possible to predict where the ball is going to land based on the wheel and the way the dealer spins or not but I suspect not.
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    • Profile picture of the author Jason Perez O'Connor
      Originally Posted by RockingLastsForever View Post

      I read and understood your post. Nowhere did I say you owned this program or promoted one.



      You said you'd tried every system under the sun I was just pointing out it was pointless as it's not a beatable game unless it's rigged in your favor or there's some sort of bug.



      Seriously, this was probably luck. You were on a night out, a little drunk, it's easy when you are winning to start thinking that you've spotted a pattern and can exploit it. Just because you got it right more times than wrong means nothing, it happens...it's called luck. If you truly believed that you could beat the system would not be playing £1 per spin.

      I'm not sure whether it is possible to predict where the ball is going to land based on the wheel and the way the dealer spins or not but I suspect not.

      GRRRR! Well, Ok you called mine an offline system, it's not, just a little knowledge I had on this.

      This testing of roulette online I did YEARS ago, I have worked out for myself that it's not beatable online OR offline if you play in a legit manner lol . However, if you do some research, you aren't beating the game offline by playing it as you should. You're beating it because you're focusing specifically on how the wheel works, how the dealer spins the wheel and the way in which he releases the ball depending on what spin he does.
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  • Profile picture of the author proguy7
    RockingLastsForever, you may be correct that there was the luck element involved, because Jason was betting "dozens" and not straight-ups based on the numbers of the wheel.

    It is, indeed, possible to predict where the ball will finish up at a land-based casino. I have seen it myself done. Jason is onto something, but the strategy he was using is flawed in the long run because of some other things that were in play at that time, but are not always. I know what they are, but you can understand why I would not want to divulge.

    Indeed, there are professional gamblers out there, and the casinos do NOT want you thinking that roulette can be beaten. They want it to stay a random game. Some times it is random, but when particular conditions line up, it becomes predictable and this can last for hours, days, weeks or even months. The key is to disguise your winnings through a variety of counter-measures.

    Thanks for replying, it's good to get a discussion going!
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  • Profile picture of the author proguy7
    I forgot to mention that I agree about online computer roulette being fixed - there are many systems on the internet that are given away for free, as long as you sign up for this or that casino. The affiliate gets paid a commission, no matter if you win or lose. What a scam!
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  • Profile picture of the author Stuart Walker
    The only way you can beat online casinos is when playing with a bonus and playing certain games with low house odds but these days most casinos have such indepth bonus terms with all the good games excluded that you can't really make any profit from it unless you're an advanced player with a big bankroll. I got out of that game years ago because it was becoming too time consuming, more casinos going rogue and not paying, just too much hassle in general.
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  • Profile picture of the author proguy7
    I see, I never knew about that. I have only ever went to a land based casino, which is where I was demonstrated the way to beat roulette. I mean by using physics against the house edge.

    I think most people like to believe nonsense, don't they? That is...little work and effort will get you easy money. It's not like that in the real world, unfortunately.

    Another thing...aren't a lot of the online casinos based in tax havens? Probably very little customer protection!
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    • Profile picture of the author Jason Perez O'Connor
      Originally Posted by proguy7 View Post

      I see, I never knew about that. I have only ever went to a land based casino, which is where I was demonstrated the way to beat roulette. I mean by using physics against the house edge.

      I think most people like to believe nonsense, don't they? That is...little work and effort will get you easy money. It's not like that in the real world, unfortunately.

      Another thing...aren't a lot of the online casinos based in tax havens? Probably very little customer protection!
      Out of interest I went looking for people using physics to beat roulette

      Saw this as first result:

      With Basic Physics, You Can Beat the House At Roulette | Popular Science

      Predicting the outcome of roulette | Chaos

      Interesting
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    • Profile picture of the author Stuart Walker
      Originally Posted by proguy7 View Post

      I see, I never knew about that. I have only ever went to a land based casino, which is where I was demonstrated the way to beat roulette. I mean by using physics against the house edge.

      I think most people like to believe nonsense, don't they? That is...little work and effort will get you easy money. It's not like that in the real world, unfortunately.

      Another thing...aren't a lot of the online casinos based in tax havens? Probably very little customer protection!
      Yeah years ago I made a lot of money from 'bonus hunting' where you'd use the online casino bonuses to your advantage by playing low house edge games like Blackjack, Casino Hold Em or Video Poker for example and you'd always play the optimal strategy (usually using 'bots') so that the odds were in your favor in the long run. You wouldn't win on EVERY bonus you played but in the long run you'd come out on top statistically. Was very lucrative and I was quite late at coming to the party people had been doing it years before me. Casinos caught on eventually and bonus terms became worse or bonuses were reduced to next to nothing, many casinos just refused to pay your winning citing 'bonus abuse' even though you'd played by all the rules (basically being smart and a winner got you labelled a bonus abuser) and it got to the point it wasn't worth it for most people in the end.

      And yeah nearly all the major casinos are in off shore tax havens. They are not properly regulated and the few regulatory boards that are available are funded by the casinos themselves so are biased and rarely favor the player in disputes. If the casino decides not to pay you a large sum for whatever reason there's very little chance of getting your money back.

      Multiple big name online casinos have done some very dodgy things in recent years including stealing money from players bank accounts after the casino messed up on their bonus terms without realising and lots of players made some serious cash from it. Players have taken them to court but the casinos just pay them off and silence them so you never get the true story in the end.

      Not worth my time or effort these days though I knew a few people who still do it and make big money from it but they have the money to burn and are willing to take risks. Plus they play some quite advanced strategies that involve spending a lot of money to make small profits back (hopefully) but you run the risk of a casino refusing to pay or banning you when you've just had your big win and thousands of dollars can be wiped out just like that. Not for the faint hearted.
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  • Profile picture of the author proguy7
    Good research!

    Yes, it is interesting that respected scientists have conducted tests to show an edge can be gained at roulette.

    However, the problem I have with it is that because they are inexperienced (they are scientists, after all), they do not know what the true HIGH POTENTIAL gain can be. I suppose that only comes from actually being a professional gambler. Anyone can have a theory...
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    • Profile picture of the author Paul Hooper-Kelly
      Hi Shane,

      Arrmmm, almost! Usually when someone asks for a refund, you click on the Refund button, near the persons, details in Paypal, and its done!

      But, if they reverse the Credit Card payment, (as l went through recently) then Paypal will lock up or freeze your account until it is fixed.

      And if you think that it is an error, the ID number wont work, for the more details link, so PP doesn't refund immediately.

      Best to refund immediately, otherwise you will stuff around for so long, you will lose sales!
      I agree: refund immediately. Yes, I certainly do that, when I'm allowed.

      Trouble is, many folks are too coy to ask the seller for a refund (particularly when they know darn well it's a good product), so they go straight to PayPal, which means they have to wait for their money.

      Warmest regards,

      Paul
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  • Profile picture of the author proguy7
    Yes I agree, Paul. Some people don't have the backbone to ask the seller, which is bad manners at the least.

    The thing is, most responsible banks will ask for evidence that they have claimed a refund (unless they make a chargeback for fraud).
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  • Profile picture of the author proguy7
    It sounds like a lot of hard work...the thing that got me was how you would get a bonus, but have to play 100 times the bonus or something?

    It's crazy...even if you win you would not win enough to be able to cash out, right?

    Anyway, playing roulette in a land based casino is a lot of fun...especially when you win :-) .
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    • Profile picture of the author Stuart Walker
      Originally Posted by proguy7 View Post

      It sounds like a lot of hard work...the thing that got me was how you would get a bonus, but have to play 100 times the bonus or something?

      It's crazy...even if you win you would not win enough to be able to cash out, right?

      Anyway, playing roulette in a land based casino is a lot of fun...especially when you win :-) .
      Yeah you had to play a lot of hands and complete the bonus terms before cash out but you'd only play bonuses where statistically you'd come out on top when playing optimal strategy. If you played correctly you could assume you'd only lose X amount of the bonus before completing the bonus terms and thus cash out your own deposit and what was left of the bonus. It's tricky to understand at first but quite a simple thing once you get your head round it.

      Just heard that Nevada has legalised online gambling, might be time to dust off the bots.
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  • Profile picture of the author proguy7
    I understand what you mean now. Do you not fancy winning at a real, land based casino?

    I suppose the online game is simply business, not much fun. Whereas in a real casino you can have business enjoyable, as long as you don't get carried away.
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    • Profile picture of the author Stuart Walker
      Originally Posted by proguy7 View Post

      I understand what you mean now. Do you not fancy winning at a real, land based casino?

      I suppose the online game is simply business, not much fun. Whereas in a real casino you can have business enjoyable, as long as you don't get carried away.
      Playing at a land based casino is a mugs game as it's just pure luck. Online you can have the odds in your favour if you're playing with the right bonus and the right game.

      I occasionally end up in a real casino but I don't really like throwing money away for the sake of it.
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      • Profile picture of the author Jason Perez O'Connor
        Originally Posted by RockingLastsForever View Post

        Playing at a land based casino is a mugs game as it's just pure luck. Online you can have the odds in your favour if you're playing with the right bonus and the right game.

        I occasionally end up in a real casino but I don't really like throwing money away for the sake of it.
        You're completely dismissing what his product (or his friends) does by making this comment!

        What proof do you have that it's a mugs game (if using his technique)? Do your research, you'll see that you can in fact beat landbased roulette games, if, as proguy7 put it, the right conditions are met.
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        • Profile picture of the author Stuart Walker
          Originally Posted by proguy7 View Post

          I think you need to open your mind.

          A roulette wheel can be beaten, betting on straight-up bets. It's only a mug's game if you play like a mug.

          There have been a few good professional players in the last century, most of whom have chosen to stay low key. However, as the internet allows access to a great amount of information, things have changed and more and more is coming to light.

          I can categorically tell you that there are professional roulette players, winning in the long term.
          I'm sure a roulette wheel can be beaten in real life in a real lax casino with dodgy wheel and lazy, predictable, dealer etc but I think you'd have to spend a lot of money testing it to see if your theory was right. It's not something that anyone can do just walking in off the street.

          With the online games if you have a good bonugs you can set a bot to work and make your profit easily (or you could a few years ago, not so much now) whilst you sleep.

          Originally Posted by Jason Perez O'Connor View Post

          You're completely dismissing what his product (or his friends) does by making this comment!

          What proof do you have that it's a mugs game (if using his technique)? Do your research, you'll see that you can in fact beat landbased roulette games, if, as proguy7 put it, the right conditions are met.
          All I mean is that when you're gambling without any bonus you don't really have an edge unless you can predict where the ball can land or what the cards will be which you are suggesting is possible with roullete. I'm not sure if it is or not but it's not something that can be that easy to do.
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          • Profile picture of the author proguy7
            Originally Posted by RockingLastsForever View Post

            I'm sure a roulette wheel can be beaten in real life in a real lax casino with dodgy wheel and lazy, predictable, dealer etc but I think you'd have to spend a lot of money testing it to see if your theory was right. It's not something that anyone can do just walking in off the street.

            With the online games if you have a good bonugs you can set a bot to work and make your profit easily (or you could a few years ago, not so much now) whilst you sleep.



            All I mean is that when you're gambling without any bonus you don't really have an edge unless you can predict where the ball can land or what the cards will be which you are suggesting is possible with roullete. I'm not sure if it is or not but it's not something that can be that easy to do.
            You are correct in one regard: it's not easy. This is because you have to have all the information at your disposal, on how to attack a wheel, which the average punter doesn't have access to. Nothing that gives a HIGH ROI is easy, surely?

            In terms of the research part...it takes about 30 mins to work out whether a wheel is playable or not. It hasn't got anything to with the dealer and the wheel doesn't need to be "dodgy", because wheels go through certain phases of being playable or not. You've got to know what to look for...key characteristics, then if the wheel is playable you hit it.

            If you want to be a regular in the casino, just take it slowly. If you walk in with £200, then don't walk out with more than £2,000. If you are on holiday, then hit it big. It doesn't matter what they think because you won't be going back .

            Anyway, thanks for your skepticism. It is helpful as is any healthy debate.
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  • Profile picture of the author proguy7
    I think you need to open your mind.

    A roulette wheel can be beaten, betting on straight-up bets. It's only a mug's game if you play like a mug.

    There have been a few good professional players in the last century, most of whom have chosen to stay low key. However, as the internet allows access to a great amount of information, things have changed and more and more is coming to light.

    I can categorically tell you that there are professional roulette players, winning in the long term.
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  • Profile picture of the author Vallank2
    I have not been in the gam that long but have used both Click Bank and JVzoo and prefer JVzoo. It is a much more pleasant atmosphere, I like their notifications and I have been able to develop some good relationships as well.

    Just my take
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    • Profile picture of the author proguy7
      Originally Posted by Vallank2 View Post

      I have not been in the gam that long but have used both Click Bank and JVzoo and prefer JVzoo. It is a much more pleasant atmosphere, I like their notifications and I have been able to develop some good relationships as well.

      Just my take
      Thanks for that - I am looking at JVZOO now, as the Click Bank commission rates are too high to me!

      It seems the marketplace at JVZOO is down right now...will have to wait.
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  • Profile picture of the author marcos08
    have you tried to contact some people in your market or similar who have a product with an existing buyer list who could perhaps for a percentage mail out like a solo ad to their own list ?? It may still mean setting up on the likes of JVZoo etc but it is being a bit more proactive than waiting for people to locate you in the market place. You just be your own or your friends JV broker!
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  • Profile picture of the author Stuart Walker
    Nothing that gives a HIGH ROI is easy, surely?
    Online bonus hunting is about as easy as it ever got. Deposit cash, take bonus, press play on bot, go to sleep, wake up a few hundred or sometimes thousand dollars richer.

    I once went to sleep and woke up the next day up $2,000. It doesn't get easier than that.
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    • Profile picture of the author proguy7
      Originally Posted by RockingLastsForever View Post

      Online bonus hunting is about as easy as it ever got. Deposit cash, take bonus, press play on bot, go to sleep, wake up a few hundred or sometimes thousand dollars richer.

      I once went to sleep and woke up the next day up $2,000. It doesn't get easier than that.
      That does sound very easy, well done! I suppose that's why it didn't last? What a shame.

      Making money in your sleep...nobody would object to that!
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      • Profile picture of the author Stuart Walker
        Originally Posted by proguy7 View Post

        That does sound very easy, well done! I suppose that's why it didn't last? What a shame.

        Making money in your sleep...nobody would object to that!
        It was happening for a few years before I even knew about it I was late to the party. It still goes on now but there's not really much value for newbies to get involved as the big bonuses with favourable terms are long gone. The advanced players that have been at it for years can still make money but the swings are huge, can easily be losing five figures per week until variance kicks in and you get the win you need to make it +EV again. With all the dodgy casinos these days it's not something I want to spend any time on. The recent news about Nevada legal online gambling might make me get back into it if things look favourable.
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  • Profile picture of the author proguy7
    Just found out from JVZOO:

    They don't accept trading, adult (of course) or gambling products.

    What a pain! So that's the idea of the product going on there a no-go.
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