It's Marketing Automation when a Fortune 500 Does Black Hat Marketing

tpw 11 years ago

Originally Posted by Paul Myers

How are you defining "black hat?"

Paul

Some people define "black hat" as any process that allows their competitors to outrank them in Google. :p
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sparkah

11 years ago

Hi Paul,

personally, i define black hat as anything that's deceptive at the server level.

but that's not what I meant here. HERE, i mean black hat as in the common thinking that using any bot or software is UNauthentic and spammy.

you may not think that... but the majority of the professional marketing people I meet do.

ugh

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Paul Myers 11 years ago

Sparkah,

HERE, i mean black hat as in the common thinking that using any bot or software is UNauthentic and spammy.

Bot? Again, what kind, and what's being done with it?

I'm not agreeing or disagreeing. Just trying to be clear on the terms. I use all sorts of automation, but I wouldn't classify any of it as even grey hat. And I'm old school.

Paul
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sparkah

11 years ago

I'm an active member of several marketing and PR communities on Twitter... the other members are real PR guys who went to business school etc...

They frown every time I bring up anything that automates... in other words... anything that saves you a keypress or mouse stroke is black hat to these guys...

I think that hurts small businesses.

PS. i definitely would NOT call you oldschool! =)

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Paul Myers 11 years ago

Sparkah,

PS. i definitely would NOT call you oldschool! =)

Old school Internet, anyway. Spamfighter from way back, ex-Usenet moderator, and I hate the destructive automation systems as much as anyone you're likely to meet.

Anyone who thinks automation of things that would be legit if done the same way and in the same volume by hand is a bad thing, though... That's just dumb. Or they're elitest Luddites.

Paul
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tpw 11 years ago

Originally Posted by sparkah

PS. i definitely would NOT call you oldschool! =)

Old, or old school... I am not sure which... I just know that he is older than me, and according to someone else here in the forum, I AM OLD... :p
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- Chris Chicas 11 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by tpw
  
  Old, or old school... I am not sure which... I just know that he is older than me, and according to someone else here in the forum, I AM OLD... :p
  
  hahaha I think I recall that thread from a few months ago. Punk kids today, no respect. :p
  
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Slin

11 years ago

I guess this just proves the normal. Google is an algorithm. Once you realize how to game it, you can just put it on automation.

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sparkah

11 years ago

Yep... the trouble with automation is the same issue as automatic weapons... in the wrong hands causes too much damage.

But in the right hands, it can make a small business owner very successful...

For example, my favorite is the Twitter Search Filter + Auto Responder:

Twitter: Guerrilla Marketing Automation: Maximum...

it automatically responds to people who

1. tweet about a competing product name
2. say they need what my product does
3. or say, "isn't there a better way to XYZ"

PS... isn't there a way to turn off the BIG auto video embed thing?

it's HUGE!

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Paul Gram

11 years ago

Originally Posted by sparkah

Yep... the trouble with automation is the same issue as automatic weapons... in the wrong hands causes too much damage.

But in the right hands, it can make a small business owner very successful...

Totally agree!!! Many automation and SEO tools can be used smartly but of course there are far more people who use them the wrong way.

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Pete Lauder

11 years ago

Originally Posted by sparkah

Well... I did the research.

But the most successful major fortune 500 companies use marketing automation companies like Marketo and Hubspot while unsuccessful ones just keep everything

"authentic"
and
"transparent"

In other words, the losers are doing marketing by hand, and the winners are using marketing automation software otherwise known as black hat software when a small business uses it.

You will find that many of the most successful Internet Marketers use the same techniques, only better.

Although they would not tell you that.

Pete

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TeamBringIt

11 years ago

There are thousands that use automation, to update their sites,blogs and just perform daily tasks. I see no blackhat in that at all...Automation just gives you freedom and saves you TONS of time...

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Paul Myers 11 years ago

Sparkah,

For example, my favorite is the Twitter Search Filter + Auto Responder:

it automatically responds to people who

That's not a "response" in the traditional sense, unless the original Tweet was directed to you. If it just searches Twitter in general and uses an @response to send the message to people who haven't followed you, that's abuse of the system. If it's sent to people who chose to follow you, it's not.

Like I said: Old school.

Yep... the trouble with automation is the same issue as automatic weapons... in the wrong hands causes too much damage.

"Automated distribution of unsolicited or channel-inappropriate marketing messages." Biggest reason so many people dislike marketers.

We are, as a group, the most persistently destructive force on the net.

Paul
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- sparkah 11 years ago
  
  Hi Paul...
  
  yes... i WOULD agree with you that @replying to people you find in a search filter on autoreply is spam...
  
  BUT if done right, you'll actually get customers and create near ZERO ill-will... this guy even thanked me for spamming him because my message had
  
  1. precise relevance.
  2. instant timing.
  
  see 3rd from the bottom... the one with the star: http://sparkah.com/shop/korean-replies.PNG
  
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  Paul Myers 11 years ago
  
  Sparkah,
  
  yes... i WOULD agree with you that @replying to people you find in a search filter on autoreply is spam...
  
  As long as we agree on that, for purposes of this discussion, we can carry on to the more salient points.
  
  BUT if done right, you'll actually get customers and create near ZERO ill-will...
  
  Let's get into a set of distinctions most people don't talk about, because they're so focused on proving that what they're doing isn't spam, or that spam is okay, or whatever.
  
  There are different types of abuse that enter into the discussion. Primarily abuse OF the system and abuse ON the system.
  
  Spam is abuse OF the system, and left unchecked would eventually destroy any communication channel. While it's true that it will always hit some people at just the right moment, the uncontrolled growth of message-flow will drive even those people out in time.
  
  That's what the people who administer online communities and channels look for first. It's why things that look harmless to the originators are often treated harshly. They're a threat. And the big threats are almost always powered by automation.
  
  Hence the attitude some of us have about the topic.
  
  Abuse ON the system (personal attacks, etc) is potentially dangerous in a different way, but that's a whole other discussion.
  
  Paul
  
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sparkah

11 years ago

@paul ...

our definitions align. I'm not sure if we disagree on this one point however...

My contention is that fortune 500s are using automation (very discreetly).

And the marketing professionals out there are telling small business owners NOT to.

I'm saying that if you want to compete and thrive, you have to automate.

For me, the only question left is, are you going to do it in a way that benefits the ecosystem of your SNS or rape it? (is that too strong a word?)

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Andy Fang

11 years ago

Originally Posted by sparkah

Well... I did the research.

Nobody likes to talk about it.

But the most successful major fortune 500 companies use marketing automation companies like Marketo and Hubspot while unsuccessful ones just keep everything

"authentic"
and
"transparent"

In other words, the losers are doing marketing by hand, and the winners are using marketing automation software otherwise known as black hat software when a small business uses it.

This is the list of companies they use: Top 100 Marketing Automation and Inbound Marketing Firms of 2013

You've probably heard of a few of them. So now, how do you feel about using marketing software?

Its not blackhat, its just the efficient way of SEO. Software automation is like replacing manual operators in an assembly line. I see nothing wrong with that.

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Chris Chicas

11 years ago

From my understanding, there is a big learning curve on automation. Not so much on how to use the software but just as importantly, how to use it effectively and without compromising the relationship between you and your customer.

Anyways, I mention this because I have friends who work for a big company mentioned on this thread... and guess what? It's a big money business. Who says that the little guy shouldn't get some of this money? Is it possible? Of course. Marketing is not just about Clicbank and their common peers. Automation is a big business and it can be used for right or wrong. Learn it properly and benefit from it.

Again, there is big money in it, but no there is not as much hype as these other products being sold to IMers on Clickbank. Anyways, discover for yourself how you can benefit from automation. ; )

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Brandon Sean

11 years ago

Hi Sparkah,

I used automation tools last time whcih made me some good insane money for the effort. However It didnt work long because well certain things change.

and P.S LOL I've seen some of your videos on youtube OUTSIDE the IM Niche

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Joe Mobley 11 years ago

Hmmm... I wonder if your friends were sitting in front of a computer, possibly using their smartphones while they were bit^ching about automation.

Joe Mobley
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It's Marketing Automation when a Fortune 500 Does Black Hat Marketing

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