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Unread 22nd February 2013, 01:11 PM   #1
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Default Paypal ask me for SSN

Ok, I'm running into a situation here, and I need your help. Today Paypal send me an email asking for my SSN. I know that email is legit because it shows in my account too.
Now here is the main problem: I used paypal before, and I got kicked out after I gave them my EIN and TaxID ( I don't have SSN). So now, if I enter the same number, they will limit the new account for sure. I have read that Paypal have to report to the IRS if an account reach both milestone: $20,000 and 200 transaction. My account get 150+ transactions and of course, way below that $20,000 limit.

So, what if I just leave my PP account like that, will they limit the new account? I use PP only for selling on eBay, and all of my items are legit. But last year, they suddenly limit my account for no reason, despite the fact that I did provide all of my documents. So now, I want to switch to Moneybookers and Propay to receive money, and only use Paypal for shipping.

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Unread 22nd February 2013, 03:46 PM   #2
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Default Re: Paypal ask me for SSN

If you just leave it, is not going to fix the problem...Just let them know what the situation is, and work to having it resolved properly so that in the future there would not be a problem.

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Unread 22nd February 2013, 03:49 PM   #3
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Default Re: Paypal ask me for SSN

You should call them up, and talk to them. It's the best way !
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Unread 22nd February 2013, 03:54 PM   #4
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Default Re: Paypal ask me for SSN

Quote:
Originally Posted by yukinara View Post
I used paypal before, and I got kicked out after I gave them my EIN and TaxID ( I don't have SSN)
Do you guys really thinking calling paypal is going to solve this? The OP already got kicked out once before and now is faced with having to give them the same tax ID. Sounds like a red flag to me.

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Unread 22nd February 2013, 04:15 PM   #5
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Default Re: Paypal ask me for SSN

I am not sure if calling would be the best way or not to handle this. But then again if you did not follow their rules the first time or did not make the time to call, then that is why you were kicked off. Maybe it would be best to call and just see what they have to say.

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Unread 22nd February 2013, 04:54 PM   #6
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Default Re: Paypal ask me for SSN

Sounds like you are giving them false information. If you not willing to give them your ssn, then don't be surprised if they shut it down again.

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Unread 22nd February 2013, 04:57 PM   #7
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Default Re: Paypal ask me for SSN

Yeah .. if they shut you down before the same numbers will get it shut down again.


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Unread 22nd February 2013, 05:24 PM   #8
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Default Re: Paypal ask me for SSN

Quote:
Originally Posted by yukinara View Post
Ok, I'm running into a situation here, and I need your help. Today Paypal send me an email asking for my SSN. I know that email is legit because it shows in my account too.
Now here is the main problem: I used paypal before, and I got kicked out after I gave them my EIN and TaxID ( I don't have SSN). So now, if I enter the same number, they will limit the new account for sure. I have read that Paypal have to report to the IRS if an account reach both milestone: $20,000 and 200 transaction. My account get 150+ transactions and of course, way below that $20,000 limit.
The 20,000 and 200 transactions is for a 1099K.

If you make more than 600 a year Paypal is required to report you unless you are corporation or llc with a standard 1099.

These are two different situations.

Quote:
So, what if I just leave my PP account like that, will they limit the new account? I use PP only for selling on eBay, and all of my items are legit. But last year, they suddenly limit my account for no reason, despite the fact that I did provide all of my documents. So now, I want to switch to Moneybookers and Propay to receive money, and only use Paypal for shipping.
Do you live in the United States? If yes then you need to get a social security number for income earned. The only way your business can get around this if you open up a corporation or llc. The tax ramifications can be greater though with this scenario.

Though to me it sounds like you are faking it and stating you are a corporation or llc, but is not and you are getting flagged for it.
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Unread 22nd February 2013, 06:08 PM   #9
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Default Re: Paypal ask me for SSN

For more information: No, I'm not a US citizen. Yes, I have an LLC and I have been doing business for 3 years. I always use my real name. I live in the US and always pay my tax on time. Last time, everything on my PP and eBay accounts are real. I gave them my TaxID number and EIN because I trust that it would be a lasting business. But no, one day they decide to limit my account. I tried to prove to them that 100% of my income is from selling legit items from eBay. I asked them for a real reason why my account for limit, no one told me why. I sent every single document they wanted, nothing solved. They froze my hard earned money, and I got stuck with a few thousand dollar of goods in the warehouse.

"just calling them" you said? Well, next time know what you are talking about before giving out 'advice'. First, the business world is not black and white. Even when I'm legit, they don't know me, and if they feel like shutting down my account, they will do it. That is the way PP operate. Second, if that truly work the first time, do you think I would lose an account with hundreds of positive feedback and 99% rating?

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Unread 22nd February 2013, 08:33 PM   #10
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Default Re: Paypal ask me for SSN

If you are living in the US how can you not have a SSN?

Quote:
Originally Posted by yukinara View Post
"just calling them" you said? Well, next time know what you are talking about before giving out 'advice'. First, the business world is not black and white. Even when I'm legit, they don't know me, and if they feel like shutting down my account, they will do it. That is the way PP operate.
1. You posted a question on a forum, you will undoubtedly get all sorts of answers, some you won't like, that's life...
2. Yes, that is the way Paypal operates, they are a business after all and have to protect themselves and their customers from people who are shall we say less than truthful or who provide false information...

Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.

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Unread 22nd February 2013, 08:46 PM   #11
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Default Re: Paypal ask me for SSN

You have an LLC, but do you have an ITIN? If you don't have a social security number, you might be able to get away with using an ITIN for PayPal. I'm not 100% sure if they accept them since not all banks accept them (and they claim to not be a bank).

Edit: I re-read your original post you said you gave them your tax ID which would be an ITIN. You have to tell them straight out it's a taxpayer ID number and you're a foreign national. They might or might not accept it.
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Unread 22nd February 2013, 09:01 PM   #12
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Default Re: Paypal ask me for SSN

Quote:
Originally Posted by salegurus View Post
If you are living in the US how can you not have a SSN?
Simply because I'm an international student. They only issue SSN to working people. Since I'm self-employed, I'm not entitled for an SSN.


@deu12000: in the original post, I did say that if I use the same ITIN, they will limit the new account again. At least their system is smart enough to detect that.

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Unread 22nd February 2013, 10:08 PM   #13
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Default Re: Paypal ask me for SSN

Quote:
Originally Posted by yukinara View Post
Ok, I'm running into a situation here, and I need your help. Today Paypal send me an email asking for my SSN. I know that email is legit because it shows in my account too.
Now here is the main problem: I used paypal before, and I got kicked out after I gave them my EIN and TaxID ( I don't have SSN). So now, if I enter the same number, they will limit the new account for sure. I have read that Paypal have to report to the IRS if an account reach both milestone: $20,000 and 200 transaction. My account get 150+ transactions and of course, way below that $20,000 limit.

So, what if I just leave my PP account like that, will they limit the new account? I use PP only for selling on eBay, and all of my items are legit. But last year, they suddenly limit my account for no reason, despite the fact that I did provide all of my documents. So now, I want to switch to Moneybookers and Propay to receive money, and only use Paypal for shipping.
By the looks of it you are under 18 because you seriously don't have your SSN? If you don't then get it! If you can't then convince your parents to get a full verified account and for you to have a student account AND they allow you to use their account. I did that to because my mom knew PP limited a shit ton of things on student accounts.
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Unread 22nd February 2013, 10:10 PM   #14
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Default Re: Paypal ask me for SSN

Does your student visa allow you to legally work off campus or run a business on US soil? Do you hold F-1 status? If so, what does your F-1 status allow for?

Just thinking that could be what PayPal is having a problem with.

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Unread 22nd February 2013, 10:42 PM   #15
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Default Re: Paypal ask me for SSN

Quote:
Originally Posted by yukinara View Post
Simply because I'm an international student. They only issue SSN to working people. Since I'm self-employed, I'm not entitled for an SSN.


@deu12000: in the original post, I did say that if I use the same ITIN, they will limit the new account again. At least their system is smart enough to detect that.
Actually, absent the right to an SSN, you aren't entitled to act as a self-employed individual in the United States. Welcome to one of many lands of red tape.

Citizenship and nationality laws are the bane of international business.
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Unread 22nd February 2013, 10:50 PM   #16
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Default Re: Paypal ask me for SSN

I think the topic has started to get sidetracked to my status and age. I'm 26 years old, and that F1 status has nothing to do with business. PP never ask for that. F1 status doesn't allow student to work for other people(engaging in employment), but there is no place in the law say that students can't incorporate or own a business. There is a fine line between owning a business and being employed. I asked the people at the IRS, and they said I can do business just fine, as long as I pay income tax like everyone else, and I have been doing this for three years.

Sorry, I don't want to sound negative, but I think it start to get into things that has nothing to do with the current issue. Let me sum it up real quick. Yes, I'm just another person trying to do business. What Paypal want is an SSN or TaxID to report to the IRS when an account hit both milestone: $20,000 and 200 transactions. I already gave them that in the previous account, but they limit that one. So if I give them again, they will cross that number with the old account and limit the current one. My F-1 status has nothing to do with this, and my age of course is not the factor. I don't want to sound mean, but now I have to explain things that a seasoned PP user should know. It is NOT about age or status. It is about PP reporting income to the IRS, and they need my TaxID, but I don't want to give it to them because it links to the old account. That's it, simple.

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Unread 23rd February 2013, 01:07 AM   #17
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Default Re: Paypal ask me for SSN

the first account I lost was business, and of course this one is not, because if it's business, then it's the whole business name and EIN again. I don't want to create another LLC just to deal with PP, there will be loads of explanation to do with the IRS.

Unfortunately, the first account was limited permanently, and until now I have no idea why.

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Unread 23rd February 2013, 01:27 AM   #18
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Default Re: Paypal ask me for SSN

Quote:
Originally Posted by yukinara View Post
the first account I lost was business, and of course this one is not, because if it's business, then it's the whole business name and EIN again. I don't want to create another LLC just to deal with PP, there will be loads of explanation to do with the IRS.

Unfortunately, the first account was limited permanently, and until now I have no idea why.
The bottom line is you are crap out of luck. If you can't or will not provide what PayPal wants they are not going to do business with you.

All PayPal accounts have to be properly documented according to THEIR rules.

Maybe get a merchant account from a bank in your country. If that's not an option, then maybe just concentrate on school and start a business once you move back to your country?

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Unread 23rd February 2013, 01:35 AM   #19
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Default Re: Paypal ask me for SSN

Move on and create another account with paypal. I would suggest checking out a book called banned from ebay to get help with that.
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Unread 23rd February 2013, 01:41 AM   #20
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Default Re: Paypal ask me for SSN

You know what. If you keep running into situations like this with PayPal you should
Definitely get another merchant account like authorize.net. PayPal is a waste of time. Change your merchant account

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Unread 23rd February 2013, 01:56 AM   #21
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Default Re: Paypal ask me for SSN

Curious about myself. Mine not verified and a transaction of 2000+ usd. more than 5 yrs account. Will they shut me down? Only recently they displayed a banner that prompts to add bank acct. I don't know what to do?

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Unread 23rd February 2013, 02:26 AM   #22
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Default Re: Paypal ask me for SSN

Quote:
I don't want to give it to them because it links to the old account.
What do you mean by links to the old account? You used the same banking information? That is a no no.

Quote:
Originally Posted by yukinara View Post
the first account I lost was business, and of course this one is not, because if it's business, then it's the whole business name and EIN again. I don't want to create another LLC just to deal with PP, there will be loads of explanation to do with the IRS.

Unfortunately, the first account was limited permanently, and until now I have no idea why.
Well, you get one personal account with paypal - and if you set this up as personal then yes - they need your ss# if you are giving a US address.

This might help you get a SS#:

Social Security Publications

Otherwise, the business needs to be flipped into a new business if you want a fresh set of numbers.
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Unread 23rd February 2013, 04:09 AM   #23
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Default Re: Paypal ask me for SSN

OK, I'll try to give some insights here. (I"m not a lawyer nor accountant but have some experience with non-resident tax rules and business registration.)

First, the obvious question, if your Paypal account was "limited", you really should know why. Were there issues relating to fraud, cheating, excessive chargebacks, etc? If so, trying further cheats will only land you in deeper water, eventually.

Now, assuming that you've truly solved the issues that led to the original problem, and your solution is to "reenter" with a new business ID, you should appreciate that the IRS will grant any legitimate business a tax number -- even the company's operations are primarily offshore. However, they will be very wary about a business that isn't also properly "domiciled" in the US (capable of having proper bank accounts and the like). This means you would need to properly incorporate a US business, perhaps in a low tax or regulation state (Nevada and Delaware are popular).

Fair enough, but there is another catch. Much documentation requires paperwork to be signed by a "US person" and you need a legal registered agent operating from the relevant state. Paraegal services offer these resources for modest (by legal terms) fees.

Finally, many non-resident people can have a SSN. I have one, for example, dating back from when I first set up a US business and obtained a L1A business expansion/transfer visa. (This is a limited work permit allowing the business owner of an existing corporation to oversee the U.S. business -- but the person can only do "executive" jobs and not regular work.) When this permit expired, I retained my SSN, even though I never actually have worked nor personally paid tax in the U.S.

Under concerns about money laundering many services are asking for verification of SSN and EIN tax numbers. Mine proved to be challenging in one recent situation, because the automated searches set up between the IRS and the social security administration showed "no match". My account was bounced. I needed to call the Social Security Administration, have them validate that I really have a real SSN, and received a letter asserting that. Then the online payment service (in this case, ebook publishers smashwords) cleared the account for payment.

Please note that I have real US corporations, conduct business in the US through the corporation (but not personally and I don't actually personally "work" there now) and file proper corporate tax returns with real business EINs, all costing several thousand dollars a year in accounting fees and business registration fees. And even then, we still have issues to watch -- because many documents require a "US person" to sign the paperwork -- fortunately we have an accounting employee with dual citizenship and she can safely and legally sign these papers for us.

This is possibly long-winded answer that there are ways non-resident people can truly have U.S. SSNs, even though they neve file nor pay US taxes personally, and that you can in theory work around previously limited accounts through services such as Ebay with a corporate rather than personal account. (The "corporate" solution also is technically available if you experience an account disabling with AdSense.)

Trouble is, the costs of building an maintaining these structures are probably way over the budget of most small IM (or any) business -- so can only make sense if you are really conducting major US business. In that case, you would probably need at least some professional advice and then you can reduce costs though self-serve and paralegal solutions. It isn't easy to pull off, and not worth it in most cases.
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Unread 23rd February 2013, 05:01 AM   #24
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Default Re: Paypal ask me for SSN

Quote:
Originally Posted by yukinara View Post
Simply because I'm an international student. They only issue SSN to working people. Since I'm self-employed, I'm not entitled for an SSN.


@deu12000: in the original post, I did say that if I use the same ITIN, they will limit the new account again. At least their system is smart enough to detect that.
That is flat out WRONG! The SSN is for legal US citizens. It has nothing to do wth if you are working or not.

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Unread 23rd February 2013, 05:07 AM   #25
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Default Re: Paypal ask me for SSN

Quote:
Originally Posted by OrangeBull View Post
Actually, absent the right to an SSN, you aren't entitled to act as a self-employed individual in the United States. Welcome to one of many lands of red tape.

Citizenship and nationality laws are the bane of international business.
Well, a US citizen can't stay in most countries for more than 3 months, by those countries rules.

My favorite was when I saw a nice car in switzerland. I was FORBIDDEN to buy a new car! WHY? A foreign national couldn't transfer a new car, and it would be considered a new car for 6 months, and I could not stay in the country that long.

BESIDES, you are considered a resident of a country if you stay over 3 months, and can be TAXED as a resident, so wouldn't you need a tax id?

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Unread 23rd February 2013, 05:10 AM   #26
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Default Re: Paypal ask me for SSN

Seasoned, you are wrong about SSNs being for "legal us citizens" Certain non-residents can also obtain a SSN (there are special codes to prevent these SSNs being used for regular work/employment.) I have one, and I am neither a US citizen nor resident.
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Unread 23rd February 2013, 05:15 AM   #27
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Default Re: Paypal ask me for SSN

Not a lawyer here.

Does the name on your Paypal account match your LLC or is it in your name?

Is your account a business account or personal account?

You mentioned that you gave them your tax ID number and EIN. From what I understand an LLC doesn't have a tax ID number AND an EIN because the EIN is the tax ID number so I'm a little confused.

Mark

Edit: After reading this through again, I am not sure what you are doing except trying to circumvent Paypal's rules. You either can use their services legitmately or try to skirt the rules. Those that skirt the rules normally get caught eventually.
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Unread 23rd February 2013, 05:15 AM   #28
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Default Re: Paypal ask me for SSN

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jill Carpenter View Post
What do you mean by links to the old account? You used the same banking information? That is a no no.



Well, you get one personal account with paypal - and if you set this up as personal then yes - they need your ss# if you are giving a US address.

This might help you get a SS#:

Social Security Publications

Otherwise, the business needs to be flipped into a new business if you want a fresh set of numbers.
NOPE!!!!!

Quote:
Show us original documents proving your:
Work-authorized immigration status;
Age;
Identity; and
And the work authorized immigration status is for NON citizens. They do this for LEGAL immigration and some related things. If you are a good foreign student, or the family member of one admitted, you can also get it.

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Unread 23rd February 2013, 08:25 AM   #29
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Default Re: Paypal ask me for SSN

Quote:
Originally Posted by yukinara View Post
the first account I lost was business, and of course this one is not, because if it's business, then it's the whole business name and EIN again. I don't want to create another LLC just to deal with PP, there will be loads of explanation to do with the IRS.

Unfortunately, the first account was limited permanently, and until now I have no idea why.

Many individuals and business form multiple LLCs and Corps to protect their assets in different areas of business they are involved with. There is no extra explanation needed as long as you are doing things properly.

Also here is another question for you. How are you paying yourself in the LLC.

Because one of the main requirements of LLCs or Corps is that they are required to have somebody on payroll.

If you are just paying self directly from the funds of the company without doing so properly especially with nobody on payroll...

The IRS can break the corporate veil and whatever protections you thought you were getting are gone. Also any other individual who sues the LLC, can break the veil and go after you properly. You are not allowed to co-mingle your assets with the LLC and I figure since you do not have a ssn, that is the only way you are doing so.

Your only solution is to form a proper relationship with another payment provider under your LLC name.
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Unread 23rd February 2013, 08:42 AM   #30
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Default Re: Paypal ask me for SSN

People need to read the OP's facts as he's given them.

He CAN'T get an SS number - not because he's not a citizen but because he's not authorized to work in the U.S. That's a basic requirement.

Quote:
I have to explain things that a seasoned PP user should know
A "seasoned PP user" knows Paypal will give reasons for closing an account - you may have to push a bit to clarify the reason but it's not a mystery. There is a reason the account was closed.

A "seasoned PP user" knows you can't use a personal Paypal account to do business without having problems as that account will be flagged.

The OP does not give his country of origin. That may play a part if the country is one disallowed by Paypal and might have an effect even though he is currently in the US.

Sometimes there is no solution to a problem. That may be the case here.


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Unread 23rd February 2013, 09:41 AM   #31
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Default Re: Paypal ask me for SSN

Like I said in my first post call PayPal and tell them you're a foreign national. Then they'll either agree or not to let you have an account.

I have years of experience working with people with ITIN numbers and know for a fact that foreign nationals without a SS# can get bank accounts, mortgages, own businesses, etc... On that note, not all banks will work with foreign nationals.

Foreign nationals, illegal aliens, etc... can own businesses in the United States legally. Selling on eBay it could be a problem not having PayPal.
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Unread 23rd February 2013, 01:22 PM   #32
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Default Re: Paypal ask me for SSN

Thanks for all of your replies, I realized that I asked the wrong place. Now I've found a forum focus solely on PP and eBay,and people over there know exactly what's going on. I will stop all discussion here. Please stop replying to this thread, thanks

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Unread 23rd February 2013, 01:28 PM   #33
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Default Re: Paypal ask me for SSN

Quote:
Originally Posted by yukinara View Post
Thanks for all of your replies, I realized that I asked the wrong place. Now I've found a forum focus solely on PP and eBay,and people over there know exactly what's going on. I will stop all discussion here. Please stop replying to this thread, thanks
What you should have done was called Paypal to fix your problem like other warriors pointed out. Instead you decided to insult people because they didn't say what you wanted to hear. If you don't like to hear good answers then don't ask stupid questions.

Only Paypal can fix your problem, so I don't know why people even bother to look for answers in forums. Only time people turn to the forum is because they are know they are doing something wrong, illegal and can't call Paypal.

Paypal closed your account for a reason, and you know that reason. Don't know why you wasted all these warriors time with this nonsense.

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