Rich Dad Poor Dad Seminar Technique

Nathan Hangen

15 years ago

LOL

Are people really that dumb?

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Aronya 15 years ago

Originally Posted by Nathan Hangen

Are people really that dumb?

Mooooooo.....

yes
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GuerrillaIM

15 years ago

apparently so

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Mark Riddle

15 years ago

Your friend left out (or Robert didn't do it at this presentation) when they call to lower their interest rates on their cards.

Builds such a great excitement in the room.

I like it when he talks about peasant thinking, shocker to a lot of the crowd,

Mark

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GuerrillaIM

15 years ago

Originally Posted by netmalls

Your friend left out (or Robert didn't do it at this presentation) when they call to lower their interest rates on their cards.

Builds such a great excitement in the room.

I like it when he talks about peasant thinking, shocker to a lot of the crowd,

Mark

Yes, he also gets them to ask the card company to wave the anual fee and apparently they do it.

This is the second in the series of seminars. The first one is a 1 day free event. This part is a 3 day seminar that people have paid between £600-£1000 to attend. My friend got a guest pass of £100 as he knew someone who paid full price. I remember dan kennedy talking about this tactic in his information marketing seminar.

I am assuming on the last day there will be an offer for some sort of "insider" group with personal mentoring and only a limited number of spaces. If the presenter has done his job right he will have instilled a good herd mentality and have some plants in the crowd that instantly rush to take up the offer.

I'm thinking of hosting my own seminars so I'm going to try and get a cheap ticket somehow to see these guys in action.

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Kyle Tully

15 years ago

While some of these seminar guys really push ethical boundaries it's worth paying attention to how they structure their seminars and the psychological stuff that goes on to get people to buy.

I went to a low-ticket (bout $100 I think) RDPD seminar about 10 years ago... nothing like watching 100-odd people line up at the end to pay $5 - $10k to go to the "real" seminar. The last hour of the seminar especially was a million-dollar education in closing.

Same with a Peter Sun seminar a year or two ago... anyone that can get people to line up to pay $50k for a business opportunity is worth paying attention to. Most people were taking notes on what he was saying. I was taking notes on what he was doing

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shane_k

15 years ago

@Kyle

What they do here at least up here in Canada is they will hold a Rich Dad seminar which is a 4 hour introductory seminar and it is FREE.

However, it isn't really a seminar they just talk about what is in the book and then get people all excited and anticipating being wealthy and rich, and then they say if you want to learn then you have to attend our 3 day seminar next weekend. Oh and it will cost you around $800.

When they done this I was sitting there laughing to myself thinking it is such a great technique. They had so many people sign up for the 3 Day Seminar.

Basically, the 4 hour introductory is pretty much just a sales pitch to get them to sign up for the REAL seminar.

Wonderful. I wonder how I or we can use something like this online, or even for those of use in the offline niche.

Shane_K

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Kyle Tully

15 years ago

Originally Posted by shane_k

@Kyle

What they do here at least up here in Canada is they will hold a Rich Dad seminar which is a 4 hour introductory seminar and it is FREE.

However, it isn't really a seminar they just talk about what is in the book and then get people all excited and anticipating being wealthy and rich, and then they say if you want to learn then you have to attend our 3 day seminar next weekend. Oh and it will cost you around $800.

When they done this I was sitting there laughing to myself thinking it is such a great technique. They had so many people sign up for the 3 Day Seminar.

Basically, the 4 hour introductory is pretty much just a sales pitch to get them to sign up for the REAL seminar.

Wonderful. I wonder how I or we can use something like this online, or even for those of use in the offline niche.

Shane_K

I've used the same technique online with teleseminars.

Hold a free or low-cost "preview" call, give away some good information so that people get value, but also tease them with what's in the full product. Then sell the product at the end of the call.

It works extremely well

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ExRat 15 years ago

Hi,

Aaaah, but think of all of the opportunities for advancement one creates by attending these things and making connections Your income is relative to the income of the people that you associate with....blah...

Once you make the decision and effort to take yourself to an enclosed place where you are at the mercy of the marketers and the crowd, you are done - you have qualified yourself.

Unless you are there as a marketer, without a credit card, in control of yourself and there purely to observe and learn.
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- JayXtreme 15 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by ExRat
  
  Unless you are there as a marketer, without a credit card, in control of yourself and there purely to observe and learn.
  
  And THAT, my friend (you already know this).. is the best place to be
  
  Hope you are well Roger..
  
  Peace
  
  Jay
  
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  ExRat 15 years ago
  
  Hi Jay,
  
  And THAT, my friend (you already know this).. is the best place to be
  
  Well yeah, but not specifically at seminars.
  
  Some prefer to herd people into pens in order to extract more from the few.
  
  With the internet, those of us without the necessary brass/urge to engage in such activites can do just fine extracting a little less from the many, and even throw in some real value too.
  
  I find Kiyosaki interesting because I have no interest in whether he is genuine or not - he's a fantastic story teller and one can extract great value in terms of mindset building even if it is based on 100% pure fantasy.
  
  Perhaps many of the most helpful/common teachings used by humans are of a similar ilk?
  
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JMB Marketing Group

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Kyle Tully

I've used the same technique online with teleseminars.

Hold a free or low-cost "preview" call, give away some good information so that people get value, but also tease them with what's in the full product. Then sell the product at the end of the call.

It works extremely well

HaHaHaHaHa,

I was so EXCITED in the past by these "FREE" teleconferences/teleseminars that I just had to sign up and attend to get the "FREE" info!

Bubble was burst when I had to actually pay up at the end of the "FREE info session" to get the REAL info.

The one and only reason why I don't subscribe or attend teleconferences/teleseminars anymore!

Truth be told. You get nutt'n for free.

It's nothing but a MARKETING PLOY!

In other words, a fishing line to reel in suckers to pay money for the "real information", and then, once you've got really excited, they offer another level for you to learn even more "real info", in the forms of personal coaching or bootcamps, etc.

I AM SOOOOOO DONE with "FREE" teleconferences/teleseminars, "FREE" webinars, etc., etc.

What I say is, learn from these "Gurus'" techniques and do them yourself in order to make at least $50K a month!

Wishing everyone success (and continued success to you devilish gurus)!

JMB

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Kyle Tully

15 years ago

Originally Posted by JMB Marketing Group

HaHaHaHaHa,

I was so EXCITED in the past by these "FREE" teleconferences/teleseminars that I just had to sign up and attend to get the "FREE" info!

Bubble was burst when I had to actually pay up at the end of the "FREE info session" to get the REAL info.

The one and only reason why I don't subscribe or attend teleconferences/teleseminars anymore!

Truth be told. You get nutt'n for free.

It's nothing but a MARKETING PLOY!

In other words, a fishing line to reel in suckers to pay money for the "real information", and then, once you've got really excited, they offer another level for you to learn even more "real info", in the forms of personal coaching or bootcamps, etc.

I AM SOOOOOO DONE with "FREE" teleconferences/teleseminars, "FREE" webinars, etc., etc.

What I say is, learn from these "Gurus'" techniques and do them yourself in order to make at least $50K a month!

Wishing everyone success (and continued success to you devilish gurus)!

JMB

Fair enough, for some marketers "It's nothing but a MARKETING PLOY", but the way I do it, and the way guys like Mandossian do it, there is valuable content on the free calls.

I've had people go off and start their own consulting business JUST based on the info they got from me on a free call.

And I ran my first teleseminar after listening to a FREE Mandossian preview call for his high-ticket teleseminar secrets program.

To say they're "a fishing line to reel in suckers" is a bit rich.

In fact, if anything, the trend lately is to give 90% solid content with a small pitch at the end.

If nothing else you can learn from the actual sales techniques used on the call

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Dennis Gaskill

15 years ago

Look at the psychology at work...they get the sheep to increase their credit card limit so it seems to the sheep that they have all kinds of money to buy what the seminar people are selling later on. It's devious.

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GuerrillaIM

15 years ago

If you are asking for a high ticket sale you have to give something away at the beginning of the sales funnel to build value.

The whole process of free seminar --> low ticket seminar ---> high ticket package is all a way to train you into their way of thinking (which is to spend your money to improve yourself). If you don't give good, solid and reliable information along the whole process then people will lose trust and get bored. John Carlton calls it the grease slide. You have to keep bringing the buyers to a state of excitement the whole way through the process so nothing hinders the sale.

I'm planning on running some seminars (not marketing or money making related) this year and I'm trying to takes notes on all these techniques as these guys have been doing it for years and know their stuff.

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Dennis Gaskill 15 years ago

Originally Posted by GuerrillaIM

John Carlton calls it the grease slide.

...and long before John Carlton, Joe Sugarman called it the slippery slope.
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Robert Puddy

15 years ago

Some of the responses in this thread make me laugh kids...

Isnt this the career we chose for ourselves to sell stuff to people?

If someone goes to an event, meets people increases their net worth etc and are offered a sales package which they use and grow even faster who loses?

Its a fact if you associate with people at a certain income level its pretty much certain thats the level you stay at.

I'm a perfect example of that... I dont run seminars for the money (though its appreciated) I run seminars to increase my network and consequently my net worth. And I go to seminars to increase my net profile, which in turn increases my network and my net worth.

Blinkers are a terrible thing

Robert

PS: Roger i thought you were progressing so nicely over the last year dude

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Frank Donovan 15 years ago

Robert

Originally Posted by Robert Puddy

Some of the responses in this thread make me laugh kids...

Leaving aside the rather patronizing tone of that comment (kids?), I don't see anything untoward about most of the posts in this thread.

One of the great quotes from the original RDPD book concerned rich people buying assets and poor people buying liabilities. It would be difficult to imagine a higher liability than multiple over-extended credit card limits.

If that is indeed what was encouraged at the seminar referred to in the OP, it's a valid discussion point.

Also..

Originally Posted by Robert Puddy

Its a fact if you associate with people at a certain income level its pretty much certain thats the level you stay at.

I have to agree with Roger. You may say that this often repeated claim is true for you, but don't state is as an unqualified fact. I have close friends whose incomes range from millions to almost nothing. The common denominator with these people is that they're all great to be around and enrich my life in many ways.

I believe that it helps to make a person a more rounded character.

And finally..

Originally Posted by Robert Puddy

Blinkers are a terrible thing

Now that I agree with (unless you're a racehorse)

Frank
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Robert Puddy

15 years ago

As an added thought can someone explain to me why its a bad idea to make sure as many of your prospective customers as possible have the means to purchase your product?

And why its a ploy (negative connotation) as opposed to good marketing

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ExRat

15 years ago

Hi Robert,

Roger i thought you were progressing so nicely over the last year dude

Trust me, I am

Everything is very black and white for you Robert, which is fine. But for others there are many shades in between - which is also fine.

Some examples in order to demonstrate -

Isnt this the career we chose for ourselves to sell stuff to people

Your implication from that statement is that 'anything goes' and that no-one should ever criticise someone elses marketing process - however unprofessional, unethical, inefficient, unsuitable etc that it is - if they are involved in 'selling' in any way, shape or form themselves. Where's the logic in that?

How can we improve our processes if we disallow ourselves from analysing other peoples' mistakes? How can we succeed more quickly if we deliberately blind ourselves to the fact that we can do things better and in the process create happier, more satisfied and therefore more longer term customers?

Example - there's a world of difference between -

a) a counter assistant at Boots Chemist

b) a direct salesperson who specialises in high pressure deal closing

Yet, their income is similarly derived from selling products to people in a customer-facing role. Without the sales, they are both unemployed. Two entirely different jobs - but if you concentrate only on the most basic core aspect of the process (selling products) - then you can say that they are 'doing the same job.' Scratch beneath the surface, and you reveal a whole world of difference. How can we gain by ignoring this and only ever seeing things in black and white at surface level?

So for the purposes of the above example, it wouldn't make any sense to train your counter assistant in high pressure closing tactics, would it? Likewise, it would be pointless to train the closer in how to deal with issuing refunds at the till, or dealing with damaged stock.

Its a fact if you associate with people at a certain income level its pretty much certain thats the level you stay at.

This may be true for yourself, but for me it's totally untrue. I agree that there are certain connections between an individual and the people that they associate with, but I don't agree that there are the absolutes that you have given, regarding income - my associates have all sorts of incomes, but the longer term associates all have a certain mindset - they're winners (in many ways). But they're also realists with an honest streak - they win because of AND despite those things.

I know many examples that completely disprove the rule that you have stated as a fact. For you it's b & w - for me it's the opposite. Neither of us is wrong - unless we suggest that these rules apply to everyone.

Blinkers are a terrible thing

I find that ironic. Your kind of black & white vision is the equivalent of blinkers.

As an added thought can someone explain to me why its a bad idea to make sure as many of your prospective customers as possible have the means to purchase your product?

If he's having to get them to extend their credit limit on their cards, I think it's pretty obvious that the majority don't have the means to be investing in the type of things Kiyosaki is selling.

You can't preach that understanding 'cash flow' is the single most important aspect of business (as Kiyosaki does) and at the same time encourage people to get in over their heads in order to invest in a biz-opp program without coming off as a snake-oil salesman - a smoke and mirrors merchant.

Personally, I'd rather cater to the well-heeled (people already successful in business) and avoid all of the pressure herding.

And why its a ploy (negative connotation) as opposed to good marketing

Good marketing doesn't have to involve high pressure to push people to buy things that they can't afford, that you, me and everyone else knows - they don't need, won't use and would be better off without.

Better marketing would be to source better prospects in the first place that you know can afford your products with ease, and that are actively seeking the solutions that you provide.

If someone goes to an event, meets people increases their net worth etc and are offered a sales package which they use and grow even faster who loses?

In the majority of the conversations where you and I cross paths, there is one fact that you are missing that totally negates the point - no more than 5% of the people who buy don't experience buyer's remorse, whereas 95% of them do - for valid reasons - because they incorrectly bought something that they don't really need and that was dressed up to be far different in the sales material than it really is, while under differing forms of pressure/scarcity which were used to make the sale.

This applies to the majority of IM products discussed in this forum - but if you completely ignore this fact, you can justify absolutely anything. Once you admit it, you can't.

Everything isn't black and white Robert. I'm not blind to the fact that you believe in seminars and that type of networking whereas it is not my cup of tea. But it would appear that because of this, you would suggest that this will cause me to fail. There's way more than one way to skin a cat and I have reasons to believe that my way is much better.

I hope this explains.

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Robert Puddy

15 years ago

Originally Posted by ExRat

Good marketing doesn't have to involve high pressure to push people to buy things that they can't afford, that you, me and everyone else knows - they don't need, won't use and would be better off without.

Better marketing would be to source better prospects in the first place that you know can afford your products with ease, and that are actively seeking the solutions that you provide.

The blinkers and black and white comments are misplaced Roger, I see things differntly to most people not just you, and actually I see me as unblinkered but i cant find the energy to type all that would be needed to argue the point.

Mostly my post is there to make people think, and give an alternative

But the above statement i find particularly arrogant (where ever I see it not just you)

The answer is this...

Whose decision should that be ultimately theirs or yours?

And having helped them increase their credit, does that mean the prospect lost the ability to say no to the pitch when it came

My job is to sell my products and make it as easy as i can for my prospects to buy my products...

It is not my job to question my prospects on the suitability to them of my products...

And the counter sales example is invalid, they are an employee they get paid whether a sale is made or not.

Anyone in real sales (online or off) is paid pro rata and that makes them hungry to get the sale, and any sales manager will examine refunds and cancellations in a salesmans stats too to see if they are pushing hard enough.

(That doesnt mean lying or swindling)

As its my job to sell the product...And its the customers job to decide if they want it.

(notice I didnt say need it or would use it)

It is usually the case that those not cut out to be salesman often see any technique to increase sales as a ploy or somehow dishonest.

Now I want to point out I have never used the technique mentioned in the original post, and i'm not sure I would have the balls to try it. But I recognise that empowering a prospect to be able to purchase your product if they so desire is nothing more than a good sales technique.

Its not evil and its not unethical... And the fact remains that everybody in this forum has chosen to be a marketer, and the study of marketing strategy should be there first concern.

You dont personally have to use every strategy that others use, but to be efficient in what you do you should acknowledge that marketing is just marketing and a trade practiced for millenia.

I'm sure the ancient romans had a way to help thier prspective customers attain the where withall to purchase thier goods before CC were invented.

The merchant who has loan agreement forms

the merchant who negotiates 3 months interest free loans

the merchant who searched around to find a loan company that will deal with people already in debt

Its not your job or mine to vet customers and decide for them if they can afford it or if they really need it

Its just your job to sell your prodcuts... Its a simple world out there

Robert

PS: Im proud of my products I wouldnt have any problem helping someone find the money to purchase them

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Dennis Gaskill 15 years ago

Originally Posted by Robert Puddy

And the counter sales example is invalid, they are an employee they get paid whether a sale is made or not.

That's probably true most of the time, however, as further proof there are no absolutes, my wife's rate of pay per hour is determined by how much product she sells. A friend of hers in the same business gets paid strictly on commission. These are for counter sales.

It seems to me you folks are arguing personal ethics. You're both right...for you. But each must decide for themselves what their personal ethics are, and others will decide if they will do business with you according to the decisions you have made...unless, of course, you're a criminal like Madoff, then people are making their decisions based on false ethics and false promises, which I'm sure you'd both agree is wrong.
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ExRat

15 years ago

Hi Robert,

The blinkers and black and white comments are misplaced Roger

Well you brought blinkers into it, I explained why, in that case, the pot is calling the kettle black.

Mostly my post is there to make people think, and give an alternative

You didn't offer any alternative, you narrowed things down by trying to suggest that anyone who sells should agree with the use of any act designed to sell more - regardless of any other consideration - and that anyone who does different is 'blinkered'.

But the above statement i find particularly arrogant (where ever I see it not just you)

I'd be interested to hear where you see the arrogance in the statement.

My job is to sell my products and make it as easy as i can for my prospects to buy my products...

It is not my job to question my prospects on the suitability to them of my products...

If you see your own job that way, fine. But that has zero bearing on how others should think and if they feel that they are better marketers and likely to become more successful because they would avoid that mantra, more power to them.

We work in a business environment (the internet) that is dominated by one company (Google) that appears to spend the majority of it's time and resources finding better ways to establish their prospects needs in order to put the absolutely ideal 'carrot' (IE product) in front of them. Google's whole business model is built around contextual relevance. They get it.

You see your job as described above, I see my job as understanding my prospects better so that I can put the ideal product in front of them. If I don't have the ideal product for them and I can't create it, I would 'send them' to someone who does, or simply leave them be. I have no desire for everybody to be my customer regardless of their suitability.

And the counter sales example is invalid, they are an employee they get paid whether a sale is made or not.

Anyone in real sales (online or off) is paid pro rata and that makes them hungry to get the sale, and any sales manager will examine refunds and cancellations in a salesmans stats too to see if they are pushing hard enough.

Regardless of the fact that many sales assistants ARE on commission as well as a basic, it doesn't invalidate my point that the assistant is not commission only. Many people in 'real sales' are employees and get a basic salary.

My point was to demonstrate that just because someone is involved in 'the sale of a product', (as most members of this forum are) that doesn't mean that they have to approve of Robert Kiyosaki's seminar tactics. Your original statements implied that we had to worship any act of salesmanship regardless of customer requirements/satisfaction, or the lack of logic or ethics lying behind those acts.

But I recognise that empowering a prospect to be able to purchase your product if they so desire is nothing more than a good sales technique.

Your attempts to twist the facts are demonstrated admirably in the way that you are classing 'getting them to increase their credit limit' as 'empowering a prospect to be able to purchase.'

I guess telling them to go and hold up a bank would also be 'empowering the prospect to be able to purchase' too would it?

Come on, you're slipping into seminar style double-speak now Robert. It's not going to wash here. :rolleyes: Are you addressing fellow business people here or writing a salesletter?

Its not evil and its not unethical... And the fact remains that everybody in this forum has chosen to be a marketer, and the study of marketing strategy should be there first concern.

But we're not debating that point, we're debating whether the 'marketing strategy' should run a little deeper than simply 'sell as much as possible to anyone and everyone.'

And I'm suggesting that it's actually more profitable to take it a little deeper than that.

Its just your job to sell your prodcuts... Its a simple world out there

We disagree on this. It's my job to to create the most effective marketing process that I possibly can. By suggesting different, you ARE simply telling me to wear blinkers - but not giving any beneficial reason for doing so.

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anth.elias

15 years ago

Wow..lots of good info here..good post..I read the book and it's a good read..-But with like with anything in life people want to get more involved and more power too them.

If you take the book at face value and really absorb what Robert is saying you could excel greatly without ever having to go to any seminars. Take what you have read and apply it you could do well, I know that it has impacted me.

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Dan Klatt

15 years ago

I have not attended a Kiyosaki seminar, although a presentation I saw him give to Steve Harrison's book marketing seminar was quite solid (your book is a brochure for your higher priced services).

A master of the kind of seminar selling you talk about in this thread is T. Harv Eker, where he allows his JV partners to give away two tickets for his "Millionaire Mind" seminars, as a $5,000 bonus.

And then probably 33-40% or more of the people there become so inspired or wound up they take Harv's multi-thousand dollar trainings.

They do get good content from the free seminars.

And he most certainly builds the herd mentality with him as their leader.

I do see great value in going there once as a participant, and a second time as an observer.

Warmly,
Dan

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Robert Puddy

15 years ago

No Roger I'm saying your already wearing blinkers...And only see things from one perspective.

Prospects never buy what they need, they only buy what they desire. As a salesman and product producer I have to recognise that and make products prospects desire and try and sneak in what they need.

The only way to sell people what they need is to trick them, no trickery is needed to sell them what they desire, only the empowerement to afford it

Good discussion though lets leave it there huh

You can have the last word if you feel the need

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JayXtreme

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Robert Puddy

Prospects never buy what they need, they only buy what they desire.

Robert...

I have a huge amount of respect for you as a marketer.

Do you honestly believe this quote above????...or were you just using it for effect?...

Peace

Jay

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Robert Puddy

15 years ago

Originally Posted by JayXtreme

Robert...

I have a huge amount of respect for you as a marketer.

Do you honestly believe this quote above????...or were you just using it for effect?...

Peace

Jay

Not only do i believe it I have witnessed it and it frustrates the crap out of me.

I have often put together products people need, only to see it ignored, so i do the marketing magic add in stuff they dont need and focus on that and they buy like crazy.

I leave in the stuff they need, and hope they use it

I know it for a fact... The coaching packahe contains unlimted use of my conference room with me and noone ever uses it, either to ask me questions or network with the other clients.

That piece of the package is pure gold, but its ignored. they buy pre made sites like it was the holy grail

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JayXtreme

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Robert Puddy

Not only do i believe it I have witnessed it and it frustrates the crap out of me.

I have often put together products people need, only to see it ignored, so i do the marketing magic add in stuff they dont need and focus on that and they buy like crazy.

I leave in the stuff they need, and hope they use it

I know it for a fact... The coaching packahe contains unlimted use of my conference room with me and noone ever uses it, either to ask me questions or network with the other clients.

That piece of the package is pure gold, but its ignored. they buy pre made sites like it was the holy grail

Robert..

Seeing it once, twice, a thousand times with YOUR thing... doesn't make it a solid fact, that just means... yes, it does happen... doesn't mean that is always the case

Peace

Jay

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Robert Puddy

15 years ago

Originally Posted by JayXtreme

Robert..

Seeing it once, twice, a thousand times with YOUR thing... doesn't make it a solid fact, that just means... yes, it does happen... doesn't mean that is always the case

Peace

Jay

No way to argue a negative to prove a positive so my answer to you is

SIGH.. OK

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Robert Puddy

15 years ago

In fact Roger here is a challenge for you... Come to Bristol.

I wont charge you for a ticket you get a free press pass so you can report back here how it went, there will be a mix of teaching, networking and selling involved. But hopefully I got the mix exactly right to cater for all those attending.

And I betya by golly some light bulbs will pop for ya... And you can report back here if i didnt get it right or to tell everyone I'm full of it

Your not stupid, you are articulate and a thinker, I just think you think to much.

I actually think its what you need, but not what you want

Robert

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GuerrillaIM

15 years ago

If I disagree with you a bit can I get a free ticket too?

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Robert Puddy 15 years ago

Originally Posted by GuerrillaIM

If I disagree with you a bit can I get a free ticket too?

You want a free ticket?
and you will actually use it?
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4Highflyers

15 years ago

Jay...

Prospects never buy what they need, they only buy what they desire.

Look at it a different way then...

Even if it's not 100%, what ratio do you think this works in with us humans?
50% of the time on 'need', 50% on 'want'?...
80%? / 20%?...
90% / 10%?...
99/1?...

Look at the stuff around you right now - how much of it did you need?
How much of it did you want?...

Out of the stuff you needed - how much was that down to you wanting it
and then convincing yourself on the logic of needing it?

Look in the kitchen - is that food what your body needs, or what your brain
wanted to feed it?

Now look at the kitchen table: if you focus your selling based predominantly on need,
there's a lot you may end up leaving on it

Best,
Adam

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Martin Luxton 15 years ago

Encouraging people to raise their credit limits so they can give it all to a high pressure salesman is "empowering" them?

Wow! I am glad we have learnt so well from the global financial crisis.

Martin
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JayXtreme

15 years ago

Originally Posted by 4Highflyers

Jay...

Look at it a different way then...

Even if it's not 100%, what ratio do you think this works in with us humans?
50% of the time on 'need', 50% on 'want'?...
80%? / 20%?...
90% / 10%?...
99/1?...

Look at the stuff around you right now - how much of it did you need?
How much of it did you want?...

Out of the stuff you needed - how much was that down to you wanting it
and then convincing yourself on the logic of needing it?

Look in the kitchen - is that food what your body needs, or what your brain
wanted to feed it?

Now look at the kitchen table: if you focus your selling based predominantly on need,
there's a lot you may end up leaving on it

Best,
Adam

Thanks for your input Adam...

I wasn't saying that I focus my selling predominantly on need... I was just saying that people DO regularly buy on a needing basis... not only a wanting basis...

I'm quite capable of recognising both... and that was my point.

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Bare Murkage.........

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4Highflyers

15 years ago

I was just saying that people DO regularly buy on a needing basis... not only
a wanting basis...

I understand, Jay...

That's why my point was to consider the "DO regularly" aspect -
because if you examine it from a human behavioural, real world stand point: we
regularly don't...however much we think we do.

But to each their own - and after all that's what makes the world go round
(with a wobble

). Besides, as someone once said:

"A man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still"

May everyone enjoy their needs and wants with a big smile on their face!

Adam

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ExRat 15 years ago

Hi Robert,

Thankyou for your kind offer, but I'm 99% confirmed to be in Germany at that time and to be honest I have no desire to try and prove you wrong - I respect your experience and admire your tenacity. It looks like you have some great people presenting there (all autoresponder-familiar ) and I hope you all have a great time.

Thanks again, I appreciate the gesture.
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GuerrillaIM

15 years ago

And the catch was...

At the end of the seminar they tried to sell various advanced courses ranging from £8,000 to £30,000.

Would love to speak to someone who has done one of these expensive courses.

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monkfunk Banned 15 years ago

[DELETED]

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- GuerrillaIM 15 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by monkfunk
  
  wow that is insane.. for what some credit cards? lol
  
  They are courses on how to beat the rat race and become financially independant or something similar. You probably get personal coaching or something im not sure, usual stuff that online marketers sell, just a bit more expensive.
  
  Thanks
  
  1 reply
  
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  rdbranson 15 years ago
  
  Time to bring in Jim Namaste's favorite nuclear logic, the Discordian Catma,
  
  "All affirmations are true in some sense, false in some sense, meaningless in some sense, true and false in some sense, true and meaningless in some sense, false and meaningless in some sense, and true and false and meaningless in some sense."
  
  Lots of valid points that depend very much on context. For me one overriding context is that as a true human being, as contrasted with a human creature, you want to do what is good for other human beings/creatures.
  
  So if you are selling a 30K seminar and you are pretty sure that a prospective buyer is not going to benefit and ends up committing suicide, in my book you are not a human being, whatever else you are.
  RDB
  
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Robert Puddy

15 years ago

Originally Posted by GuerrillaIM

And the catch was...

At the end of the seminar they tried to sell various advanced courses ranging from £8,000 to £30,000.

Would love to speak to someone who has done one of these expensive courses.

See thats insane... why is that a catch?

Thats a business model... they just use a different medium to sell their products.

This is what I mean when I question some peoples business acumen here... everyone is selling something... everyone uses a system or a medium to do so.

So why is someone selling a product A catch?

(forget you wouldnt pay that much... some people will and so its perfectly acceptable to sell it to them)

In fact as a marketer you should have a range of products from free all the way up to 5k or 10 k thats what a funnel is

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GuerrillaIM

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Robert Puddy

See thats insane... why is that a catch?

Thats a business model... they just use a different medium to sell their products.

This is what I mean when I question some peoples business acumen here... everyone is selling something... everyone uses a system or a medium to do so.

So why is someone selling a product A catch?

(forget you wouldnt pay that much... some people will and so its perfectly acceptable to sell it to them)

In fact as a marketer you should have a range of products from free all the way up to 5k or 10 k thats what a funnel is

LOL. In my original post I refer to them as "Genius". I know it's standard business practise to have a sales funnel, I don't think I have said anything bad about them, but it is a catch. There is ALWAYS a catch or how else would anyone make money. When I see someones free report I know it's a sales letter for the beginning of their sales funnel, it stands to reason.

Attend this FREE seminar and find out how to be financially independent:

Result of this is that you need to spend £600 on next part of course to become financially independent. Then it turns out in the £600 seminar that to become financially independent you need to spend £20,000 to get to the goal.

From free to £20,000. I'm not putting them down, if they are closing at the end then they have a good sales pitch. But if a friend called me up and said:

"Hey, I saw this free seminar advertised, is there a catch?"

I would reply

"Yes, they will try to sell you something expensive at the end"

I call it a catch, you may not. I am sure they give lots of value and have many happy customers who are content with their purchases or they wouldn't have been around so long. It's classic marketing at work. Like I said before I plan on running my own seminars later this year and I'm going to go to one of their seminars just to take notes.

I personally think you have kicked up a fuss in this thread to promote your own seminar. And why not? Fair play to you. But can you not try to put me down in the process?

Do I have a sales funnel in my business? Of course! I have a free report, small ticket price course and big upsell. That's how it works.

You sound like a guy who likes to argue but unfortunately I am not. I'm not trying to promote my own name or reputation here, I am just here to learn as much as I possibly can. I am sure there is a heated flame coming my way after this post, forgive me if I don't reply.

ps for the record, I think getting someone to increase their credit limit before you pitch them your final product is clever but ethically wrong

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Robert Puddy

15 years ago

Originally Posted by GuerrillaIM

I personally think you have kicked up a fuss in this thread to promote your own seminar. And why not? Fair play to you. But can you not try to put me down in the process?

You sound like a guy who likes to argue but unfortunately I am not. I'm not trying to promote my own name or reputation here, I am just here to learn as much as I possibly can. I am sure there is a heated flame coming my way after this post, forgive me if I don't reply.

ps for the record, I think getting someone to increase their credit limit before you pitch them your final product is clever but ethically wrong

HMMM

k point one

You will see me make the same points in every thread, this one just happens to be about another seminar..

point2 I like to debate things sure thats why were in a forum Right

for the record though my point is...

Most business people will see a sales process... not a catch

Most customers will see a catch... not a sales process

This is a subtle difference in mind set than can make a huge difference

Your PS is intersting, I see it as clever too, but not unethical. I wouldn't do it though for another reason. I couldnt effectively pull it off with any conviction.

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Steve Peters Benn

15 years ago

I encountered a very aggressive pitchman at one of these seminars that I went to along with Eddie James and PGtips. I didn't like the way he treated the rather elderly audience at all. An incredibly nasty fellow that I hope doesnt represent Rich Dad seminars as a whole.

You can learn a lot from the seminar/ upsell structure.

However on this occasion we decided to be difficult and walked out after asking some difficult questions.

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Andyhenry

15 years ago

This is an interesting thread.

I can see a lot of sense in many of these perspectives.

I personally think that enabling someone to increase their debt so that you can use it to get them to buy your stuff is one of the most offensive things I've heard of.

Debt is like a poison that infects many peoples lives and causes more pain than almost any other common element.

Maybe that makes me less of a 'business' person, but I seem to be able to happily and ethically make money despite that.

As for Rob - We've had our differences when it comes to viewing sales and marketing techniques in the past, and probably have different views on this thread subject as well, but one thing I can say is that you won't find many IMers as focused and dedicated as Rob is.

I think it's useful to have people who question our mentality because many people really do have hugely limiting beliefs which are preventing them from making great money.

There are perfectly legitimate ways of making massive revenue which suit all types of approach and personality, so arguing whether one way is better or worse than another is a limiting approach, but personal choice and doing business in a way that suits each person is just a matter of choice.

So for me personally, the debt creation thing is offensive, but I understand why others might see it differently and that's their choice but I would NEVER advocate people increase their credit card debt in order to spend it on marketing or business products.

Our differences and the ability to discuss them here are one of the great things about this forum.

Andy
p.s for what it's worth - Rob has attended plenty of other peoples seminars and knows how lame it is when they're just a pitch-fest and (as he already said) he does his own events to build his network and reputation, so it's a fair bet that they'll be useful and interesting.

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Warrior Globetrotter

15 years ago

lol, but it really is that easy to increase your credit limit for your info, just call them and tell them you want an increase, if they refuse just threaten to cancel your card and they most likely will give you something.

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Andyhenry

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Warrior Globetrotter

lol, but it really is that easy to increase your credit limit for your info, just call them and tell them you want an increase, if they refuse just threaten to cancel your card and they most likely will give you something.

That's working on the assumption that having more credit card debt facility is seen as a good thing.

Some people might say that if you really have a sound business opportunity that there are many much more efficient ways to get funding.

Many people who follow this advice and go for credit card debt increases have a history of bad financial decisions (which is the reason they resort to using credit card debt with massively high interest rates in the first place) and telling them to increase their facility is like telling an alcoholic to buy in bulk because it saves money. It sounds like it could make sense, but the people who really need the advice are not the same people as those who have existing credit card debt.

Andy

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Robert_Rand

15 years ago

I love going to events like these for this exact reason - to watch the sales presentation.

Don't get me wrong, I love "content" but I've also learned it's not nearly as fun if there's nothing being sold.

James Ray came to town recently and had a very strong sales presentation - much better than I expected. There were about 500 people in attendance and I estimate he closed about 10-15 % on a $2,000 seminar.

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