The BIGGEST advice anyone on here can receive.

Adaptive

15 years ago

What's TechCrunch?

Regards,
Allen

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Colin Y

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Adaptive

What's TechCrunch?

Regards,
Allen

TechCrunch is a blog that reviews internet products and companies. They also cover new companies that are making an impact on the new web.

Check them out: TechCrunch

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Sagar Mehta

15 years ago

BIG Mike nails it!

Originally Posted by JMapleton

Literally 99% of info products are rehashed information you can get online for free.

Yes, and water is available for free too. I have a lake right beside the place I live in. Do I go and fetch water everyday from there? No. No one does that in my area - they instead pay the water supply company to pump that water to their homes.

Value addition, my friend. It keeps the world economy going. Yes, a lot of information is available for free online, if you want to search for it - good on you. My market, however, likes things on a silver platter - organized, researched and presented in a form they like. I do that and get paid for it. I'm their water supply department.

Originally Posted by JMapleton

I did not imply that it's a failed business model, some people make a lot of money doing it. But it's a ponzi scheme. One person sells a book to make money (which says to sell this book) and they pass it on the next person and so forth.

That is, if you assume everyone on here is selling in the IM niche which of course, isn't so.

Originally Posted by JMapleton

Well he doesn't, I use "mfa" as a general term to imply of any "info" site that involves the sole purpose of getting rank to display ads to the user.

Originally Posted by JMapleton

I use the word scam in a way to imply that you're not building a real mainstream business.

Originally Posted by JMapleton

Your concept of a "site" and my concept of a "site" are often different. A site is more than just "providing content."

And since you "use X term to refer to xyz or abc", what do we do? Sit here and guess what you're referring to. A site is a site is a site. MFA is MFA is MFA. Some terms are going to mean particular things unless you clarify what you mean. Don't make people guess what you meant.

Originally Posted by JMapleton

It's FAR better to have one big site with QUALITY information than 10 little sites with niche flaky information.

That's just wrong on so many levels that I can't even begin to describe it.

First, if authority sites were the end all, be all of the internet, no would make niche websites in the first place.

Second, if you can show me one authority website that makes, say, $1000 a month, I can show you a bunch of "10 little sites with niche flaky information" that make double that amount. Bottomline, every method can make you money - pick your favorite.

Third, flaky info or no flaky info, if it sells, then it sells. If MY readers happily buy one of my recommended products based on whatever I write on my blogs, we both are happy. It's all about what my target market responds to. If they love quality, I'll go with quality. If not, then not so much.

Regards,
Sagar

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Dennis Gaskill

15 years ago

And everyone should follow your lead because...why? Because you have a different idea that you haven't even proven yet but it seems high-minded to you?

There are many paths to success. Ebooks teach skills people want to learn. I have both content sites and minisites, both types of sites are profitable and serve different functions. Both types of help people.

One this is certain no matter which type of site you have or what business niche you're in, a judgmental and accusatory attitude is seldom helpful to anyone.

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JMapleton

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill

And everyone should follow your lead because...why? Because you have a different idea that you haven't even proven yet but it seems high-minded to you?

My method is NOT new. It's something that's been proven over and over again. QUALITY is the key. Most people on here build garbage. They don't have enough confidence in themselves to invest serious time and money into something.

You don't need something unique, you just need QUALITY and outdo everyone at their own game.

There are many paths to success. Ebooks teach skills people want to learn. I have both content sites and minisites, both types of sites are profitable and serve different functions. Both types of help people.

That's why the Rich Jerk is flat broke and in bankruptcy. People like Shoemoney and John Chow do not build "minisites" and "article sites." They build quality. They have confidence and target the mainstream.

One this is certain no matter which type of site you have or what business niche you're in, a judgmental and accusatory attitude is seldom helpful to anyone.

It's no less than the fabricated lies told by most ebook marketers who just rehash used and easily available information. "The hidden secret behind huge cashflow........blah blah."

Open your eyes. You need to build a house out of BRICK AND STONE not straw and paper.

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Dennis Gaskill

15 years ago

Originally Posted by JMapleton

My method is NOT new. It's something that's been proven over and over again. QUALITY is the key. Most people on here build garbage. They don't have enough confidence in themselves to invest serious time and money into something.

How would you know most people here build garbage? Did you look at everyone's sites and look at their products? How can you possibly know how much confidence anyone has in themselves or their abilities?

You're making a whole lot of assumptions about a whole lot of people you don't know.

You don't need something unique, you just need QUALITY and outdo everyone at their own game. That's why the Rich Jerk is flat broke and in bankruptcy. People like Shoemoney and John Chow do not build "minisites" and "article sites." They build quality. They have confidence and target the mainstream.

Did you even look at the site in my signature file before you started lecturing me on quality? It's a content site, with pretty good quality content I think, and I also sell software and ebooks.

Honestly, you come on here making a ton of assumptions about people you don't know, you appoint yourself judge and jury over their business, their psychology, and over their products, all of which you know little to nothing about...don't you see a problem with that?

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musicproducer

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill

Did you even look at the site in my signature file before you started lecturing me on quality? It's a content site, with pretty good quality content I think, and I also sell software and ebooks.

Honestly, you come on here making a ton of assumptions about people you don't know, you appoint yourself judge and jury over their business, their psychology, and over their products, all of which you know little to nothing about...don't you see a problem with that?

Since you mentioned your website, I had to check it out and here are a few observations:

You're using both tables and inline css.
First link I click brings me to an error page.
You also managed to crash my browser.

Generally these are not things I would associate with quality, and it's definitely not something I would expect to find on a website teaching web development. However, I reserve any judgement on the quality of the actual content since I haven't read it (error pages and crashes don't really help there though).

It's not my intention to flame here, but I don't think the thread starter deserves all the heat. This all seems to be very touchy-touchy. Is it really that horrible to suggest that there is something to quality?

Just two cents from a noob.

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jasonl70

15 years ago

lol.. good luck to you

The reality is that you DON'T need some incredible site - unless your ego is more important then actually making sales.

You know what?

Come back and lecture when you actually have the experience behind you.. right know, your only spewing opinions. And since you have yet to actually prove your way will even work, let along work better then others, then you should certainly not be preaching it with such an attitude.

Oh - and if you aren't selling an info product, I'd venture to say you are not going to be competing with those who are - simply because their niche is those looking for info on the particular topic.

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dannyhw

Banned 15 years ago

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JMapleton

15 years ago

Originally Posted by dannyhw

There's nothing wrong with info products but come on sites like this are always full of people selling snake oil and people who are willing to buy it.

Literally 99% of info products are rehashed information you can get online for free.

The 1% of profitable information is profitable but only for a short while because it involves doing the same thing the ebook marketer did to promote his book.

Maybe .000001% of those sort of products are worth it, but most of them are very expensive and not sold for 39.99 on a cheap sales page.

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debra

15 years ago

Originally Posted by JMapleton

Literally 99% of info products are rehashed information you can get online for free.

The 1% of profitable information is profitable but only for a short while because it involves doing the same thing the ebook marketer did to promote his book.

Maybe .000001% of those sort of products are worth it, but most of them are very expensive and not sold for 39.99 on a cheap sales page.

OMG....

Has anyone told Barnes n Nobles this yet?

Amazon would be horrified by the news.

Clickbank should just roll up the carpets and file bankruptcy....

Propaganda Dude...your spewing more propaganda.

Show me your working theroy.

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Jill Carpenter

15 years ago

Originally Posted by dooogen

Thing is, people VALUE things they pay for. There is a better chance of someone taking action with information they paid for than information they found for free. Therefore, by selling even the basic information and getting them started, he is helping others, and helping himself. Everybody wins.

Originally Posted by debra

OMG....

Has anyone told Barnes n Nobles this yet?

Amazon would be horrified by the news.

Clickbank should just roll up the carpets and file bankruptcy....

Propaganda Dude...your spewing more propaganda.

Show me your working theroy.

Yes, ITA.

We have free public libraries, but people still buy books.

I can spend hours searching for free information spread out all over the place, or I can leverage my TIME that I will never get back by purchasing an ebook that will solve my specific problem.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with this.

And why re-invent the wheel? A lot of those sites are working and do what they are supposed to.

I think you have wrongly assumed what everyone here does and what we all sell. I come here for advice and research on a plethora of different things. I do not just sell ebooks.

Originally Posted by JMapleton View Post
I read this forum, and almost everyone here is TOTALLY missing it by a mile.

You read this whole forum? Almost everyone is missing "it"? Do you have any idea how many people are members of this forum?

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Michele Miller

15 years ago

LOL. Thanks for the chuckle.

Originally Posted by debra

OMG....

Has anyone told Barnes n Nobles this yet?

Amazon would be horrified by the news.

Clickbank should just roll up the carpets and file bankruptcy....

Propaganda Dude...your spewing more propaganda.

Show me your working theroy.

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jasonl70

15 years ago

I ask you: is doubleyourdating.com a masterpeice of a site?

here's my translation of your OP:

"I have not been able to make any money selling info products. It can't be my fault - so it must be an unworkable business model."

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JMapleton

15 years ago

Originally Posted by jasonl70

I ask you: is doubleyourdating.com a masterpeice of a site?

here's my translation of your OP:

"I have not been able to make any money selling info products. It can't be my fault - so it must be an unworkable business model."

I have never sold ebook products in my life and I have owned websites since 1998. I have made money online since 1998 in the stock trading niche because I built QUALITY.

Edit: and doubleyourdating.com does not impress me. It's just an mfa site.

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jasonl70

15 years ago

Originally Posted by JMapleton

Edit: and doubleyourdating.com does not impress me. It's just an mfa site.

it is?? And I thought eben was making his $25 mil a year from the site from selling dating info, not adsense! Heck, I have never even seen adsense on his site.

The fact that you think eben is an adsense guy makes me think you really do not have nearly as much background in this market as you think...

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JMapleton

15 years ago

Originally Posted by jasonl70

it is?? And I thought eben was making his $25 mil a year from the site from selling dating info, not adsense! Heck, I have never even seen adsense on his site.

The fact that you think eben is an adsense guy makes me think you really do not have nearly as much background in this market as you think...

Well he doesn't, I use "mfa" as a general term to imply of any "info" site that involves the sole purpose of getting rank to display ads to the user.

It's like saying "Xerox" a piece of paper on a Canon copier.

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jasonl70

15 years ago

Originally Posted by JMapleton

Well he doesn't, I use "mfa" as a general term to imply of any "info" site that involves the sole purpose of getting rank to display ads to the user.

It's like saying "Xerox" a piece of paper on a Canon copier.

you don't even have that one right..

until very recently, that site was a simple squeeze page, promoting an ebook. It may not be a squeeze page anymore, but it is still only selling his info products (his coaching is a backend sale).

Like I said - if your are ignorant of eben pagan and that site of his, then you do not have nearly the knowledge of this market that you seem to think.

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rainyclayday

15 years ago

Well I agree that quality sites are a better idea than a ton of "straw and paper" sites as you put it (and yes, I agree to some extent about that too, there are a lot of those sites around), although many people make lots of money with those sites, and I've made money myself with them.

But when you say a quality site are you meaning an authority site which has lots of unique content? Or is there some other aspect that makes certain sites better than others? Can you show one or more of your sites here that demonstrate a "quality" site.

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JMapleton

15 years ago

Originally Posted by rainyclayday

Well I agree that quality sites are a better idea than a ton of "straw and paper" sites as you put it (and yes, I agree to some extent about that too, there are a lot of those sites around), although many people make lots of money with those sites, and I've made money myself with them.

But when you say a quality site are you meaning an authority site which has lots of unique content? Or is there some other aspect that makes certain sites better than others? Can you show one or more of your sites here that demonstrate a "quality" site.

Your concept of a "site" and my concept of a "site" are often different.

A site is more than just "providing content." Although all sites are that in a basic sense.

We'll use blogs as an example.

Look at all the top bloggers, they all have quality and unique content about things that are INTERESTING.

John Chow blogs and video blogs about his trips to China, and all the palces he eats. He spends thousands to get a QUALITY looking site (design and tools).

How many blogspot blogs are top ranked? Not many.

It's hard to put into words, but once you see it, you see it.

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Ram 15 years ago

Originally Posted by JMapleton

John Chow blogs and video blogs about his trips to China, and all the palces he eats. He spends thousands to get a QUALITY looking site (design and tools).

Off the top of my head, I can think of a dozen or so marketers who make more in a month than John has said he makes in a year off his blog - and they primarily use squeeze pages and an autoresponder.

I can think of a lot more that don't make more in a month than John makes all year -- but they do make more in a year than John has publicly stated he rakes in.

A site is simply a tool. The key is to give people what they really, really want. If you do that, the site doesn't matter very much. That's why arguments like this -- as well as the ones about whether video works better than copy, long vs. short, etc. -- don't mean much at all. Absolutes are foolish in marketing.

If someone wants to build the next MySpace or Facebook or Amazon or Yahoo or whatever, fine. I wish them the best. That's not what I do. I'm a marketer. I'd rather build my lists.
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discrat

15 years ago

Originally Posted by JMapleton

Your concept of a "site" and my concept of a "site" are often different.

A site is more than just "providing content." Although all sites are that in a basic sense.

We'll use blogs as an example.

Look at all the top bloggers, they all have quality and unique content about things that are INTERESTING.

John Chow blogs and video blogs about his trips to China, and all the palces he eats. He spends thousands to get a QUALITY looking site (design and tools).

How many blogspot blogs are top ranked? Not many.

It's hard to put into words, but once you see it, you see it.

OMG, this guy has got to be a Troll when he goes around saying John Cow and Shoemoney build Quality Sites. PLEEAAAZZEEE. Chow is the KIng of Garbage.

It took me a week after being a beginner in IM to learn and figure out that Chow was completely all fluff and no substance. Look at his Website there is nothing but stupid, senseless Posts written about going on trips to China, Scotland, Vegas Porn Show etc...etc... Ridicolous stuff that is intended by Chow to keep his loyal readers there and get the newbie IMer buying into his Affiliate Garbage !

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jasonl70

15 years ago

Originally Posted by JMapleton

I have never sold ebook products in my life and I have owned websites since 1998.

thank you for proving my point. You have ZERO experience with selling info products, yet you are quick to tell everyone it's a failed business model.

You are just talking out your ass..

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Hamida Harland 15 years ago

All you guys do is promote ebooks and "get rich quick" junk. Even the so called "experts" on here, it seems they make most of their money promoting some ebook.

That's a pretty big assumption. The vast majority of marketers here don't reveal their masterpieces (I certainly wouldn't).
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- JMapleton 15 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by Hamida Harland
  
  That's a pretty big assumption. The vast majority of marketers here don't reveal their masterpieces (I certainly wouldn't).
  
  Honest Question: Why not reveal them on here?
  
  When mine goes live, I'll post a link to it.
  
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JMapleton

15 years ago

Originally Posted by jasonl70

thank you for proving my point. You have ZERO experience with selling info products, yet you are quick to tell everyone it's a failed business model.

You are just talking out your ass..

I did not imply that it's a failed business model, some people make a lot of money doing it. But it's a ponzi scheme. One person sells a book to make money (which says to sell this book) and they pass it on the next person and so forth.

My point I'm arguing is that if you want to truly succeed and make real money you need to build quality and target mainstream.

There are SO FEW people building quality and it's incredibly easy. I know, I've done it.

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oldwarrioruser1

15 years ago

JMapleton,

Nobody here is understanding what you are saying. I think you need to give us an example of you, "DOING IT BETTER THAN EVERYONE ELSE", so we can actually see what we are missing.

Thanks!

KP

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JMapleton

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Matthew Connors

Hi J
Im not sure what your trying to achieve - Do you want to be the most hated warrior, kicked off, or just have no body listen to you because your opnion is so well engrained that you cannot possibly see anyone elses view point. And yes you are entiteld to yours.

There is a thing called emotional intelligence - i suggest you go read about it for 5 minutes and come back to post a response.

I'm looking to give honest advice for free to people on this site. I'm not criticizing anyone but the ebook marketers who in my opinion are scam artists.

I word my post to get attention, it got yours didn't it?

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Mike Hill

15 years ago

Originally Posted by JMapleton

I'm looking to give honest advice for free to people on this site. I'm not criticizing anyone but the ebook marketers who in my opinion are scam artists.

I word my post to get attention, it got yours didn't it?

Got my attention too... I suggest you go peddle your "advice" somewhere else. Calling info marketers scam artists is a bunch of bull.

Instead of storming in here throwing your advice, which you call honest, but then do the same as info marketers. Your advice is nothing to be desired and why would anyone listen to you? You have no proof, no nothing...

I would almost consider you a TROLL on this forum because you know absolutely nothing of what you are speaking about here.

Mike Hill

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oldwarrioruser1

15 years ago

JMapleton is probably laughing his ass off right now.

He is obviously just pulling your guys' leg..

He throws some food out on the table and you guys bite.. geeeez

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dannyhw

Banned 15 years ago

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JMapleton

15 years ago

Originally Posted by dannyhw

The scam part comes in when people on this forum decide to sell ebooks about SEO and whatnot to other people on this forum, except for they never really knew what they were talking about. It works minimally, but none of the theory is sound. People make a tiny bit of money, nobody learns anything and everybody loses.

Go read any of the good SEO blogs, actually learn how things work and you'll be pissed if you ever paid for any stupid money making guide.

I'm glad someone gets it. Nice post.

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jasonl70

15 years ago

Originally Posted by dannyhw

The scam part comes in when people on this forum decide to sell ebooks about SEO and whatnot to other people on this forum, except for they never really knew what they were talking about.

ok.. you do have a point there. A lot of people pass off research projects as expertise. That wouldn't be so bad if the info was in fact solid and obtained from an actual expert - but it often is just based off of someone elses poor info.

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JMapleton 15 years ago

Originally Posted by Matthew Connors

How is that possibly a scam??????????

I am a reasonable person, I admit my op what a bit extreme.

I use the word scam in a way to imply that you're not building a real mainstream business.

It's not a "scam" per se. What is however, is a "fly by night" way of making money.

Everyone and their mother is on sites like this pumping ebooks and other nonsense. Why not build quality? Why not put yourself in a position to be seen by the mainstream?
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dannyhw

Banned 15 years ago

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jasonl70 15 years ago

Originally Posted by dannyhw

some people make sales pages to sell stuff to people who don't know how to use google.

coming from the guy who just said in another thread that nobody will buy an ebook

And who has posted about stealing ebooks from sellers who don't block their download pages from being spidered...

Sorry, but I think your opinion is about as credible as the guy who started this thread.
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- dannyhw Banned 15 years ago
  
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  mark_polo 15 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by dannyhw
  
  I don't care if anyone thinks I'm credible. I haven't got an ebook or secret methods to sell you.
  
  Why not care if anyone thinks you're credible?
  
  Credibility as far as I'm concerned is the single most important factor in all this.And it's so easy to be credible .Just don't lie.
  If someone thinks you're a scammer or not telling the truth for whatever reason why not sort it out or admit you're wrong or stand by your point if
  you think it's valid .
  
  Just couldn't believe youre on a marketing site where people are suposed to be making progress and youre' saying you don't care if people think youre credible ,sounds like you're shooting yourself in the foot ,or maybe you are the type of pesonality that this trait works well with .
  
  As long as you're happy mate.
  
  Just thought i'd excersize my brain a bit on this point .Thanks
  
  Thanks
  
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oldwarrioruser1

15 years ago

Can you show one or more of your sites here that demonstrate a "quality" site.

I already tried that.

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dannyhw

Banned 15 years ago

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jasonl70

15 years ago

Originally Posted by dannyhw

Eh, I've been at this long enough to have laughed at money making ebooks since they came out.

GoogleCash? Remember that one? The one that said "You sign up at commission junction and sign up for adwords?"

All those secrets about posting ads and making money!

Also not to mention that there's a huge growing industry around content creation where it's been proven again and again that the more you give the more you receive.

I use ppc everyday to make affiliate sales. it works.

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dannyhw Banned 15 years ago

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- jasonl70 15 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by dannyhw
  
  Yeah, but is it just a little, or a whole lot scummy to charge people to tell them they can do that?
  
  There are posts here almost every day from people wanting to know how to effectively use ppc. Why is it not legit to teach them?
  
  Thanks
  
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  -Jason
  
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jasonl70 15 years ago

Originally Posted by dannyhw

I don't care if anyone thinks I'm credible. I haven't got an ebook or secret methods to sell you.

neither do I. I've never had a wso, or even sig links. And I'm always the first person to tell others there is no secrets..

Originally Posted by JMapleton

It's FAR better to have one big site with QUALITY information than 10 little sites with niche flaky information.

lol.. again, just your opinion since you have never actually had little niche sites, nor are you very educated regarding them, you have no actual experience to back it up.
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jasonl70

15 years ago

that double your dating site is responsible for tens of millions a year in sales, and if you ever listen to eben you'd realize the guy is brilliant. I'd put his business up against anyones.

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JMapleton

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Matthew Connors

Some marketers in here including myself would strongly argue that 10 niche sites with 10 niche URL's would signiificantly out perform 1 site with 10 sub pages....... But the jury is probably still out on this one.

The internet operates on a exponential curve in regards to traffic. The top guys hog most of the traffic.

It's FAR better to have one big site with QUALITY information than 10 little sites with niche flaky information.

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dannyhw

Banned 15 years ago

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dannyhw

Banned 15 years ago

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dooogen

15 years ago

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jasonl70

15 years ago

Originally Posted by dannyhw

But there is MUCH MUCH better information available for free from people who actually have editorial links from other people who are well known for providing good information and they're making way way more than anyone who's trying to sell anything to new people.

I agree you can dig up plenty of great info for free.. I do not agree that the people dishing it out "are making way more then anyone trying to sell anything". Does the local library make more money then amazon or barnes & noble?

Originally Posted by dannyhw

But how do you justify the ridiculous claims of income? You know that most of the people who buy the book are going to lose money. The fact that a ton of other people are buying the book, signing up at CJ and saturating the same terms.

I have recently run ppc campaigns using 'make money online', and was able to compete with over 8000 other ppc competitors and still turn a profit.

Not everyone implements ppc the way they are taught. They choose keywords that are not targeted enough, bid too much in the chase to be #1, bid too little to get any clicks, don't test their ads, use crappy landing pages that do not convert, build giant kw lists with poor quality scores, etc..

That product you mention is an old product, so it isn't fair to compare the methods it teaches to todays ppc environment. But ppc is still a great way to get lots of traffic, quickly.

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dannyhw

Banned 15 years ago

[DELETED]

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jasonl70

15 years ago

Originally Posted by dannyhw

Yeah but it's still pretty dick to market it as if it was a guaranteed source of income. You know lots of poor desperate people are reading these things and thinking that if they'll just spend $97 they'll be let in on this easy guaranteed cash flow.

A lot of people promote adsense and content sites as if they were a guaranteed source of income as well

Some of them were advertised as "Get Paid to Type". Really? PPC research is typing?

true - I think the people marketing like this are unethical. They also call it 'data entry', 'rebate processing', etc.. but it does not mean ppc and/or affiliate marketing does not work.

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sbucciarel

Banned 15 years ago

Originally Posted by JMapleton

I read this forum, and almost everyone here is TOTALLY missing it by a mile.

Until you show proof (that means dollars and cents) instead of mindless bluster ... you're no different than anyone else, and less than some because some have the proof.

Show me your paypal screenshot and I'll show you mine.

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Trader54

15 years ago

This thread should have been titled the BIGGEST BS anyone here can receive.

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absolutelee

15 years ago

That sounds great, but then again, 20+ years of sales experience tells me you sell people stuff they want to buy. If people want to buy "get rich quick" then sell it to them. Theirs a way to do this ethically.

Lee

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AlbertF

15 years ago

If you can make a steady income with Ebooks great, any source that can give you credible income is worth doing.

Some people just don't have the time to make a blog and make articles every day, and with all the time and effort required, it is not a option for everything, so I wouldn't be calling people lazy left and right.

Ebook selling can become really effective if you know what you are doing. Both blogs and ebook promoters share the same promoting tactics, but each have their wins and flaws. Blogs tend to convert less, but can accumulate bigger audiences, while ebooks can convert quick and painlessly because all the information is focused on one product.

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Dennis Gaskill

15 years ago

Originally Posted by dooogen

Thing is, people VALUE things they pay for. There is a better chance of someone taking action with information they paid for than information they found for free. Therefore, by selling even the basic information and getting them started, he is helping others, and helping himself. Everybody wins.

That's true, but there's more. Some people suck at research and finding the information they need. They gladly pay to have it all organized for them, saving them weeks of hunting on their own. Some people are in a hurry and value their time more than a few dollars and are happy to pay someone else to have it now.

And while there is a lot of good information out there for free, there's also a lot of bad information for free. People are happy to buy from someone they trust rather than have to figure it all out for themselves.

The bottom line is, there are many, many reasons people are happy to pay for information. JMapleton assumes the worst and fails to see the whole picture. I have received hundreds of emails from people thanking me for what I do over the years.

Selling ebooks is as legitimate a business as any, and there are lots of topics for ebooks besides marketing. Are there some bad apples in the game? Sure, of course there are, there are bad apples in any business, online and offline. You can't smear everyone with the same brush, it's not only unrealistic, it's completely unfair and short sighted.

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Robert_Rand

15 years ago

Originally Posted by JMapleton

I read this forum, and almost everyone here is TOTALLY missing it by a mile.

All you guys do is promote ebooks and "get rich quick" junk. Even the so called "experts" on here, it seems they make most of their money promoting some ebook.

The best advice anyone here here, in my opinion, can receive is that you need to build a masterpiece of a site.

Quit with the JUNK. Quit with the spam sites. Quit with the MFA sites. Quit with the ebooks and "digital products" crap. Just quit it.

The question you need to ask yourself, I call it the "TechCrunch Test", is: Would my site be featured on TechCrunch?

Is it a legitimate business? Does a serve a need to the general population.

I have been spending the last a few months building a QUALITY site for a one of the HIGHEST PAYING and HIGH TRAFFIC niches around because I know that YOU GUYS are too lazy to build anything near in quality to what I will build. If you search for my niche, you see nothing but high traffic but crappy sites and people did not want to spend the time in. I'm hiring Unique Blog Designs to do the designs and I'm building something that will impress corporate figures and put myself in a position to be bought out. Yet I am going to market it in the same place you guys market yours, in forums and blogs and when people see the quality in contrast to yours, it will only make my site look better.

I will not say what the niche is, so don't ask and I'm not selling some pos ebook either. You guys are lazy and don't take this seriously; there is serious money to be made here. You can do what I'm doing with any niche, JUST DO IT BETTER THAN EVERYONE ELSE.

This post was VERY entertaining. Thanks...

"Techcrunch Test" LMAO

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dndoseller

15 years ago

I totally agree with you in one respect, and the other problem here with allot of folks is "scale".

I get PMs from people who put up a site and a few articles and wonder why they don't make sales.

The quantity of highly targeted traffic of buyers that you need in order to make a sale is much, much higher that most beginners realize.

The only way to get the scale required to actually make any serious money I have found takes serious dumb luck and timing (eg plenty of fish, certain domainers), or for most normal sites...

investing in outsourced services is the key.

So to your point, most sites listed in tech crunch have management, staff and cash to invest. That does make all the difference in the ability to achieve a high level of traffic. However my friend, keep in mind the hundreds of sites on tech crunch that go bankrupt and the thousands owned by people on this site that make money all day long in the black.

Almost every idea on this forum from article marketing to blogging can make you serious, serious money, but it is limited to people who invest extreme amounts of dollars in services or heavy duty over time for a prolonged period.

Making money online comes down to owning allot, allot of original content and backlinks, and both are time and labor intensive.

Persistence is not enough if it does not eventually get you to the volume needed to produce the income you want. You can be persistently doing everything wrong.

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Kevin Lam

15 years ago

You're a heck of a reader to have read the whole forum. I bet even the moderators and Allen hasn't read the entire forum.

To spit down on digital products is like saying the Internet is a stone-age technology. Plenty of people make a great living without building "a masterpiece of a site". Then again, let's forget a product, just have "a masterpiece of a site". Telling people to stop with the ebooks? Now that's just ignorant - and believe me, ignorance is not a bliss.

Yeah, I agree that people should quit with the MFA and scams, but who are you to say everyone should quit it as if we're all doing that?

There are plenty of legitimate businesses out there that aren't featured on TechCrunch. So what if they're not? Are businesses not featured by TechCrunch a sham and illegal activity?

For it to be the "BIGGEST advice anyone here can receive" it's one of the worst advice I ever heard.

You talk about people building scam businesses here, but if you look around, there's a lot of legitimate people offering legitimate products and services.

You've been spending months to build ONE quality site? I can build one in just a week or less and that's an online shopping store! In fact, I'm doing that. So what if you're trying to tap into a "HIGH PAYING" and "HIGH TRAFFIC" niche if you can't convert them? So what if you can't get them to your site? Just because you're tapping into that market, it doesn't guarantee anything.

Do everyone a favor and save your "advice" to yourself, because if it ends with arrogance and telling everyone that they're lazy regardless of any knowledge of how a person is, you're just a dark cloud drifting by - everyone's anticipating your departure.

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Kevin Lam

15 years ago

Can we just have this thread closed? This is obviously not going to benefit anyone here. We all know it's "advice" no one needs to hear and the defense and less than redundant.

Oh man, didn't see the message by debra. That's awesome.

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Ben Clemons

15 years ago

killer thread title... got me to open it

lol

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Noel2010

15 years ago

I want to assure you that every new ebook or course states clearly in their 20 pages sales letter that all the other gurus are wrong and that this is complete new and never revealed before.

No doubt, yours will say the same. Let me know when it launches.

I noticed that you joined in March last year but all 12 posts is from the 19th (today).

I look forward to all your enlightening posts.

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BIG Mike

Banned 15 years ago

[DELETED]

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erickz

15 years ago

Originally Posted by BIG Mike

Wow - this has got to be the most laughable thread I've seen in a long time. You are either a troll, which makes sense, or more likely, you've got zero business experience online or off and haven't a clue about what really works.

Quality sites have to do with one thing and one thing only - User Experience. Here is the epitome of a masterpiece site: Google

Simple, clean effective and the visitor can immediately accomplish the core purpose of the site - initiate a search query. But according to you it's crap and scammy because it's not a masterful work of art.

Gee Whiz...so how did they become the epitome of success online?

And Google follows this same theme throughout their various sites, including Adsense, Adwords, Analytics, Webmaster Tools, etc.

Interestingly enough, Yahoo and MSN have moved on to try to provide "Masterpiece" sites, so cluttered and full of junk you've got to look around for the search box. Oh wait...I forgot - Google kicked their asses in marketshare with their scammy looking site.

Newsflash dumbass - imagery, while nice, contribute very little to the performance of a site. Sure, they're pretty to look at, but except for one specific thing, they have no real SEO value.

In the coming decade I suspect that despite all of the cools things we can do with sites these day, a shift back to the days of primarily text-based sites will become far more common. Combined with AJAX to enhance user experience, these will be the real masterpieces in the years to come.

One has to wonder why you're really participating in this forum - seems contradictory to the very core of your own beliefs.

LOL.. i totally agree with Big Mike. this thread is really a BIG JOKE! so moderator pls consider closing this thread as it doesn't offer any "REAL BENEFIT" to any one...

you can have the "MOST beautiful site" or your so-called "QUALITY site" in the world, but your so-called "QUALITY" is not defined by you, but is determined by the user. And if a "ONE PAGE WEBSITE" can pulls in quality traffic and converts into sales better than your "QUALITY SITE" (which you are spending months trying to create), than i seriously think you still got a long way to go in understanding the fundamental of this internet business (which i am in no position to say cause i am also learning

but at least not making a clown of myself with the sort of comments that you are putting it here)

LOL.. so stop being a clown here.. i don't think we need one.. :p

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mark_polo

15 years ago

Originally Posted by iMerickz

LOL.. i totally agree with Big Mike. this thread is really a BIG JOKE! so moderator pls consider closing this thread as it doesn't offer any "REAL BENEFIT" to any one...

Yeah close the thread so you can stop people discussing a topic that has goten under your skin , or you don't deem it useful to yourself so that means no one else finds it useful ,come on mate ..

"The biggest advice anyone on here can recieve ." The title alone invites discussion on what people believe is the most important computer marketing advice .If thats not useful ,god ,i don't know what is.

Also I've actually learned more about computer marketing in this single thread ,than i have in a while ,so lets get back on topic ,Big advice .

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Dennis Gaskill

15 years ago

music, what link did you click that gave you an error page? Do you recall? I don't use any cutting edge technology so I don't know why your browser would crash. SSI is the most cutting edge thing on the page. What's wrong with using inline CSS with tables? Normally most of my CSS is external, but when my site was hacked I had to rebuild it quickly (it's undergoing a less frantic and more thoughtful rebuild behind the scenes right now - table-less as far as the layout goes).

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musicproducer

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill

music, what link did you click that gave you an error page? Do you recall? I don't use any cutting edge technology so I don't know why your browser would crash. SSI is the most cutting edge thing on the page. What's wrong with using inline CSS with tables? Normally most of my CSS is external, but when my site was hacked I had to rebuild it quickly (it's undergoing a less frantic and more thoughtful rebuild behind the scenes right now - table-less as far as the layout goes).

I think it was the "Introduction to CSS" link on the first page that gave me an error. It doesn't do that now however.

I'm honestly not sure why my browser crashed (Safari 3.1.1) but I think it happened on the sound effects page.

Using tables for layout and putting css inline is bad for a number of reasons. The main being that you mix content and styling if you do it, which means your code isn't semantically correct. In more practical terms, it also means that the same styling information is being transmitted over and over again to the same user instead of just being downloaded once. It means more load on both your server and your users' bandwidth. In this case, you have also split one large image into several small ones in order to fit them into a table, which requires additional http requests to your server hence slowing down your website.

There are probably more reasons but these are the ones I can think of right now. It's just generally bad practice.

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Kevin Lam

15 years ago

I see nothing wrong with mixing tables and css. I've seen on other professional web designers use both. OSCommerce does it and it works fine. Just saying.

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musicproducer

15 years ago

Originally Posted by netdebut

I see nothing wrong with mixing tables and css. I've seen on other professional web designers use both. OSCommerce does it and it works fine. Just saying.

That doesn't mean it's a good idea does it? Guess what, spent five minutes googling it, and it shows out there are people offering tableless versions of OS Commerce for SEO purposes.

Which, I'm sure, most people on this forum would see the value in...

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Kevin Lam

15 years ago

Originally Posted by musicproducer

That doesn't mean it's a good idea does it? Guess what, spent five minutes googling it, and it shows out there are people offering tableless versions of OS Commerce for SEO purposes.

Which, I'm sure, most people on this forum would see the value in...

First off, I think it's funny how we're having our own conversation in this thread. We're a bunch of loose cannons, eh? Wow, I'm Canadian now! What's going on?

Anyway, who says it's a bad idea? Table-less or not, it doesn't change a site's ability for SEO. I don't see how a table-less site would just rank better than a site with tables. This might not be the best example, but Yahoo! also use tables. So what?

Oh no, Facebook also use tables.

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Fernando Veloso

15 years ago

Oh boy, how the heck did i read all thread?

Please, somebody smack me on the face before i turn real dumb.

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Adaptive

15 years ago

I noticed that you joined in March last year but all 12 posts is from the 19th (today).

Well, it took a whole year for him to recover from the shock of seeing a marketing site that wasn't 100% dedicated to TechCrunch ratings. Now that the shock has worn off, he has a year's worth of insight to share.

Regards,
Allen

P.S.

Oh boy, how the heck did i read all thread?

You must have been waiting for the same answer I was:
What is TechCrunch?

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Final Verdict

15 years ago

I think its great your going to put all your energy and passion into the business module you beleive will make you the most income. I think you could be more respectful to others, not everyone has the time or the initiative to do things to the level you are wanting to. Everybody's time used has a value to it, and people may deem spending alot of time building this super quality site not worth the risk if the traffic intended in the end doesn't come.

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jasonl70

15 years ago

Originally Posted by dannyhw

And what do I see in the ads for that term today?

My Internet PayDay - Home

WOW

The landing page is Kevin Gets Green - How I Make $5,000 a Month Posting Links on Google

WOW MAKE $5,000 A MONTH FROM GOOGLE AND LISTEN TO MY AUDIO ABOUT GETTING LAID OFF AT THE PIPE FACTORY GOOD THING I BOUGHT THIS EBOOK WHICH I AM NOW SELLING TO YOU!

I make MORE then that from ppc traffic. If i decided to teach others what and how I do it, am I a scam artist?

Originally Posted by musicproducer

That doesn't mean it's a good idea does it? Guess what, spent five minutes googling it, and it shows out there are people offering tableless versions of OS Commerce for SEO purposes.

Which, I'm sure, most people on this forum would see the value in...

I have been building websites for 14 years. I still quite often use tables for my own sites - and plenty of those sites using tables kick butt in the serps.

All the bandwidth and download speed arguements regarding inline css is trivial for 99.9% of the sites out there.

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Kevin Lam

15 years ago

Originally Posted by jasonl70

I have been building websites for 14 years. I still quite often use tables for my own sites - and plenty of those sites using tables kick butt in the serps.

All the bandwidth and download speed arguements regarding inline css is trivial for 99.9% of the sites out there.

Thank you, Jason.

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tonywarrior2

15 years ago

Originally Posted by JMapleton

I read this forum, and almost everyone here is TOTALLY missing it by a mile.

All you guys do is promote ebooks and "get rich quick" junk. Even the so called "experts" on here, it seems they make most of their money promoting some ebook.

The best advice anyone here here, in my opinion, can receive is that you need to build a masterpiece of a site.

Quit with the JUNK. Quit with the spam sites. Quit with the MFA sites. Quit with the ebooks and "digital products" crap. Just quit it..

lol yada yada yada. I have an MBA, nearly killed me getting it, and hardly a piece of digital crap, but, just like your sentiments my friend, it means zilch until you've proven yourself in the real world.

So, please come back when you sell your site for millions. Until then how's about a bit of humility?

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alertinvestor 15 years ago

Wow, imagine the shock when you click on the link expecting to get the "BIGGEST" advice and this is what you get!

Where's the love? Maybe J needs a hug...by the way, where is J?
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The BIGGEST advice anyone on here can receive.

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