71 replies
Many times I decide to get a free ebook I find online, but when I receive a message from their auto-responder asking me to confirm that I agree to be their subscriber and download the ebook, I change my mind and I never do it.

However, I keep receiving messages from the free ebook owner, with the subject line: 'Please Confirm'.

This is happening quite frequently lately...

What do you think about that?

Do you send messages asking for a confirmation to those who regret deciding to download your free ebook?
#confirm #email #free e-book
  • Profile picture of the author Neil Morgan
    One of the most frequent questions we get asked by marketers is how to resend the confirmation email to people who have not yet confirmed.

    So yep, it's what marketers seem to want to do.

    Cheers,

    Neil
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    Easy email marketing automation without moving your lists.

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    • Profile picture of the author MatthewWoodward
      Originally Posted by Neil Morgan View Post

      One of the most frequent questions we get asked by marketers is how to resend the confirmation email to people who have not yet confirmed.

      So yep, it's what marketers seem to want to do.

      Cheers,

      Neil
      This is exactly what the PAR system does as well and it works pretty well fromw hat I've seen around 25% of the second confirmations that go out and get confirmed.
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      • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
        Banned
        Originally Posted by clever7 View Post

        Many times I decide to get a free ebook I find online, but when I receive a message from their auto-responder asking me to confirm that I agree to be their subscriber and download the ebook, I change my mind
        This - the starting-point of the whole conversation - is the part I don't understand, Christina.

        You're saying, in effect, that you'll subscribe to the lists of marketers who build their lists using single opt-in, but not to the lists of those using confirmed opt-in.

        Why is that?
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  • Profile picture of the author Frank Donovan
    Originally Posted by clever7 View Post

    Many times I decide to get a free ebook I find online, but when I receive a message from their auto-responder asking me to confirm that I agree to be their subscriber and download the ebook, I change my mind and I never do it.
    Sorry to break this to you, but if you enter your email and aren't asked to confirm, it means you're almost certainly on the list anyway.

    If you don't want to be a subscriber, don't enter your email address in the first place.
    Signature


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  • Profile picture of the author Vadimarket
    Big deal. Just unsubscribe or mark it as spam so it'll go to junk folder.

    Why is everyone so freaking sensitive about the small stuff??? Jezuz!
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  • Profile picture of the author clever7
    You didn't get the point here. I was talking about not respecting those who don’t want to confirm.

    I was not talking about how annoying these messages are. I have a special email address for free ebook owners.

    I was criticizing the insistence on asking for confirmation.

    Do you believe that this is a good tactic?

    Do you do that when someone forgets to download your ebook?

    Perhaps you believe that this is not a good tactic and that those who send email messages asking for a confirmation are disrespecting the online users who have changed their minds.

    But, perhaps you believe that it is a good idea to send just one message reminding them to download the free ebook they forgot for some reason? A kind reminder?

    What do you think about that?


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    • Profile picture of the author art72
      Originally Posted by clever7 View Post

      Do you believe that this is a good tactic?
      Yes, it is called a double-optin and protects marketers from receiving high spam complaints. I use this on all my email campaigns.

      I am a bit confused as to the number of times you think these "confirm subscription" messages go out, as far as I know it's a simple "yes" go confirm... or "No" ...and move on.

      Don't see the logic in your post?

      Art
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    • Profile picture of the author THK
      Originally Posted by clever7 View Post

      [FONT=Verdana].... I was talking about not respecting those who don't want to confirm..... I have a special email address for free ebook owners....
      These guys are giving you something valuable for free (they spent time or money to create the ebook that possibly include useful info) and you are not even showing enough respect to give them your real email address. If you want to talk about "not respecting", I think you are taking the initiative there...lol

      Just saying

      Tanvir
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    • Profile picture of the author natf
      Originally Posted by clever7 View Post

      Do you believe that this is a good tactic?
      No, but like WillR I've never seen this happen either, after many years online. I'm pretty sure none of the major autoresponder services do this.

      Originally Posted by Vadimarket View Post

      Big deal. Just unsubscribe or mark it as spam so it'll go to junk folder.
      If you've confirmed your opt-in you chose to subscribe so the email isn't spam and shouldn't be marked as such. You might not like the content you're being sent, the frequency of it or something else but that's what the unsubscribe button is there for.

      Marking email as spam when it isn't hurts the marketer sending it and could potentially hurt other marketers using the same service if the sending IP address gets tagged for too much spam.

      Getting content you don't like is NOT the same thing as getting spam.

      Now if you unsubscribe and keep getting email, that's a different story.
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    • Profile picture of the author Alex Mensah
      At most one message is fine in case they have forgotten. Heck, with the amount of stuff I get in my inbox some things tend to slip by but
      more than one reminder then that marketer would start to piss people off not a good thing!

      Originally Posted by clever7 View Post

      You didn't get the point here. I was talking about not respecting those who don't want to confirm.

      I was not talking about how annoying these messages are. I have a special email address for free ebook owners.

      I was criticizing the insistence on asking for confirmation.

      Do you believe that this is a good tactic?

      Do you do that when someone forgets to download your ebook?

      Perhaps you believe that this is not a good tactic and that those who send email messages asking for a confirmation are disrespecting the online users who have changed their minds.

      But, perhaps you believe that it is a good idea to send just one message reminding them to download the free ebook they forgot for some reason? A kind reminder?

      What do you think about that?

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  • Profile picture of the author WillR
    Originally Posted by clever7 View Post

    Many times I decide to get a free ebook I find online, but when I receive a message from their auto-responder asking me to confirm that I agree to be their subscriber and download the ebook, I change my mind and I never do it.

    However, I keep receiving messages from the free ebook owner, with the subject line: 'Please Confirm'.

    This is happening quite frequently lately...

    What do you think about that?

    Do you send messages asking for a confirmation to those who regret deciding to download your free ebook?
    I've never seen this happen.

    Most reputable autoresponder companies will only ever allow the system to send out ONE email asking for confirmation. If you don't confirm, that's it. Anything else is just spam and should be reported.
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  • Profile picture of the author RogueOne
    Originally Posted by clever7 View Post

    [FONT=Verdana]I change my mind and I never do it.
    The lesson here is: always use single opt, always.
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  • Profile picture of the author datingworld
    use free email for downloads and free ebooks, you won't get headache with it.
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  • Profile picture of the author clever7
    The point is that without having the intention to make such research, I suddenly realized that some people are sending messages to those who never confirm that they want to be part of their email list and download their free ebook.

    Many people do that. I couldn't imagine that some people insist so much. The same person keeps sending the same message, again and again.

    I believe that this insistence is not allowed, but it happens all the time. I keep receiving messages entitled 'Please Confirm' from the same ebook owners; not just once.

    I think that this insistence is negative. It's ridiculous to keep sending messages to those who don't confirm their subscription, besides being an abuse.

    However, later I thought that perhaps just one reminder could have a positive effect.

    What about a kind reminder saying: 'I know that you have a busy life and you probably forgot to download my free ebook because you have a lot to do, but I would like to remind you that this ebook is very helpful because... etc and etc.'

    So, I opened this thread with the intention to discuss this topic.

    Should we become angry when someone asks us to confirm a subscription twice? Or more times?

    Or should we understand that perhaps this is a good tactic because many people forget to download a free ebook they liked when they paid attention to its content?
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    • Profile picture of the author WillR
      Originally Posted by clever7 View Post

      The point is that without having the intention to make such research, I suddenly realized that some people are sending messages to those who never confirm that they want to be part of their email list and download their free ebook.

      Many people do that. I couldn't imagine that some people insist so much. The same person keeps sending the same message, again and again.
      I'd love to know which ebooks you are subscribing to because in the last 12+ years online, I've never once seen this happen. Certainly not in the frequency you seem to be talking about.

      Maybe you need to be looking for your information and freebies in better places?
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  • Profile picture of the author Beverley Boorer
    No, I've never had that happen either. If you get too annoyed with it, you can block their message or go to the website and unsubscribe. You could also go to the web page and find contact email and ask them to cease and desist as you are sinking under the weight of their emails and the backwash will soon wash their website right out of cyber space. Some people won't know this, so they will appreciate your warning.
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    • Profile picture of the author BIG Mike
      Banned
      Originally Posted by Vadimarket View Post

      Big deal. Just unsubscribe or mark it as spam so it'll go to junk folder.

      Why is everyone so freaking sensitive about the small stuff??? Jezuz!
      Originally Posted by Beverley Boorer View Post

      No, I've never had that happen either. If you get too annoyed with it, you can block their message or go to the website and unsubscribe.
      It might not be possible to unsubscribe when the subscription wasn't confirmed in the first place.

      If the confirmation email didn't contain a commercial offer, then it's probably not spam - annoying perhaps, but there is a difference.

      Originally Posted by art72 View Post

      Yes, it is called a double-optin and protects marketers from receiving high spam complaints. I use this on all my email campaigns.Art
      Actually, it doesn't - a double-optin fulfills their contractual obligation to their ISP's, Hosting Services and 3rd party A/R's, but it doesn't protect them if they are sending commercial offers that fail to comply with anti-spam laws.
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      • Profile picture of the author art72
        Originally Posted by BIG Mike View Post

        Actually, it doesn't - a double-optin fulfills their contractual obligation to their ISP's, Hosting Services and 3rd party A/R's, but it doesn't protect them if they are sending commercial offers that fail to comply with anti-spam laws.
        First off, Thank-You for clarifying the facts. Perhaps, I should've cautioned my wording, whereby, I do my best to comply with anti-spam laws in MY email campaigns, and construct my commercials offers as such.

        The double-optin is my personal preference, as it generally confirms the person seeking the information at "xxxxx" email address is indeed the owner of submitted email, and IS requesting the information. Such as a FREE ebook.

        Now, as far as Richard, Alexa, Big Mike, Nightingale, and several others have strongly suggested, most online marketer's (myself included) are not practicing, nor ever have made it our practice to send multiple messages 'begging' someone to confirm... it defeats our entire purpose!

        I have seen cases where true spammers (lists I know I didn't join) hit my inbox with no recognizable information I requested, and I can easily assume this is the result of possible email swaps or simply illegal spammers deploying their garbage into our email boxes. It can happen.

        However, I remember every list I have ever subscribed to, and respect the people (business owners)in one of two ways, either I continue to receive and read their emails or I unsubscribe. Simple.

        Now, for these 'other' instances whereby I know they are not lists I subscribed to, I filter them to skip my inbox... I DO NOT spam them, I simply let them pay, and pay, and pay to continue sending me messages I WILL NEVER READ! -Big lists cost money you know, as do autoresponder accounts.

        Thirdly, if YOU optin to my list, I do everything humanly possible to send you value. This is an exhausting task in itself. In return, I hope that along the way, when I do recommend/refer a 'commercial offer' be it mine or an affiliates... you do make a legit purchase based on it being of value to YOU, and in return I get paid for my time, as any professional would hope.

        To make email marketing out to be some 'secret conspiracy theory' that only she understands, is a bit absurd.

        I have NEVER been asked to confirm my subscription(s) more than once, and ironically, I always do... so call me nuts! -After all I did request this information.

        If later I learn the information sucks, or is of no benefit, I unsubscribe. SIMPLE.

        If it's some 'garbage' spammer which I get regularly, I filter these messages to skip the inbox, and let these a-holes pay for their mistakes as long as I can, lol.

        At least now, the OP has received enough solid information to recalibrate her thinking, and probably would benefit greatly utilizing this knowledge in the future to build her own list(s) and be better able to construct her own email marketing campaigns.

        Another suggestion (solution) might be for the OP to troll kindle amazon, and hunt down the FREE book releases that many authors offer at first release to build their fan base.

        Another would be join a Master resell rights club, and pay a cheap monthly fee and get access to tons of ebooks with MRR or PLR... as many FREE ebooks are housed in these marketplaces anyway!

        Good Luck.

        Art
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  • Profile picture of the author Rbtmarshall
    I know this is after the fact, but...

    You could create a separate email account for freebie opt-in registrations. That way your personal or business email isn't going to get flooded with spam.
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  • Profile picture of the author clever7
    I have an email address for free ebooks.

    Sometimes when I have time I look for free traffic generating methods that won't be time consuming, like in the beginning of this month.

    Later, I was busy and I forgot this matter. I’m still receiving messages asking me to confirm the ebooks I didn't confirm in the beginning of the month until today.

    I don’t know how they can find out who doesn’t confirm and send a confirmation request again and again, unless they have their auto-responder and they don’t depend on Aweber, or other email companies.

    I found it irritating in the beginning, but then I thought that perhaps one reminding message was OK.

    Perhaps it’s a good idea to send more than just one message asking for confirmation because the subscriber may be too busy and forget about how interesting a certain free ebook seemed to be. However, more than two messages seems to be too much…






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    • Profile picture of the author Shaun OReilly
      Whether you receive more than one request to confirm
      your e-mail address depends upon the autoresponder
      system that the list owner is using and how they've
      got it set-up.

      Personally, I wouldn't recommend sending more than
      one confirmation request e-mail to a potential new
      subscriber.

      When they first sign-up on your page, they should be
      near the height of their desire to see your content.

      If they can't be arsed to click on a simple confirmation
      link at that point, then I'll let them move on. I only want
      motivated people on my list - not tepid lookie-loos.

      Oh - and don't give people your valuable free content
      until they've clicked on a link in an e-mail.

      Dedicated to mutual success,

      Shaun
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      .

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  • Profile picture of the author clever7
    I'd love to know which ebooks you are subscribing to because in the last 12+ years online, I've never once seen this happen. Certainly not in the frequency you seem to be talking about.

    Maybe you need to be looking for your information and freebies in better places?



    I'm surprised with these constant email messages asking me many times to confirm ebooks I didn't confirm because something else kept me busy at the moment, and I forgot about this matter. This is something new; but it's happening to me quite often lately.


    Personally, I wouldn't recommend sending more than
    one confirmation request e-mail to a potential new
    subscriber.

    When they first sign-up on your page, they should be
    near the height of their desire to see your content.

    If they can't be arsed to click on a simple confirmation
    link at that point, then I'll let them move on. I only want
    motivated people on my list - not tepid lookie-loos.

    I believe that a second message reminding your potential subscribers to confirm that they accept to be part of your email list after downloading your free ebook should be part of the process because most people don't care about being part of an email list - they care only about the free ebook.

    Of course, if they will be happy with the information they will find, they may care about the work of the ebook's author, but the truth is that you cannot expect to see people subscribing to your email list because they care about your work in general terms.
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    • Profile picture of the author Shaun OReilly
      Originally Posted by clever7 View Post

      ---most people don’t care about being part of an email list – they care only about the free ebook.
      If they don't care about being part of an e-mail list then
      the should NOT get the free ebook.

      That's the way most people run their lists - correctly IMO.

      It's all about a fair exchange - you give them some
      valuable content and they give you their e-mail
      address.

      No e-mail address? No exchange!

      Go the other way if you want to, but I can assure you
      that you'll end up giving away a your content for free
      to a significant number of people for NOTHING in return.

      I prefer WIN-WIN. Not win-lose or lose-win.

      Originally Posted by clever7 View Post

      Of course, if they will be happy with the information they will find, they may care about the work of the ebook’s author, but the truth is that you cannot expect to see people subscribing to your email list because they care about your work in general terms.
      Another option is that people join the list, see for a
      preview of some of the content. Then if they don't
      like the content, they can unsubscribe from the list.

      One of my goals as a list builder is to pre-qualify and
      segment my subscribers to measure their level of
      interest in me and my content and respond to them
      accordingly.

      Dedicated to mutual success,

      Shaun
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  • Profile picture of the author johnben1444
    Occasionally some of these people capture their market from mere sign up form which is suppose to grant you access to their member area and only tick or accept to receive email update e.t.c.

    However, if you find yourself trapped in this kind of situation when you aborted the transaction halve way, you can unsubscribe, really annoying thou.
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  • Profile picture of the author clever7
    However, if you find yourself trapped in this kind of situation when you aborted the transaction halve way, you can unsubscribe, really annoying thou.



    Unsubscribing from an email list can be a waste of time. Many times when I click on an unsubscribe link it goes to a page where I have the alternative to belong to one or two email lists, without giving me the option to simply unsubscribe from all their lists.

    This has happened to me more than three times. I stopped unsubscribing and I simply have a special email list for free offers, or I send the annoying messages to the spam folder.

    My field is not email marketing. I’m a business owner and I care about internet marketing only because I have an online business. I buy ebooks about getting traffic and making more sales, but only if I’m more than sure that I can trust the ebook’s authors. People who insist too much and disrespect my rights go to the spam folder.

    I believe that this is what most people do.

    The lesson here is: always use single opt, always.



    What’s the point on trying to force your subscribers to belong to your email list if your messages will directly go to the spam folder?







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    • Profile picture of the author RogueOne
      Originally Posted by clever7 View Post

      What’s the point on trying to force your subscribers to belong to your email list if your messages will directly go to the spam folder?
      I've tried to make sense of this but am having no luck.

      No one is being forced to do anything. They are told (by me anyway) that they can unsub any time with one click.

      Why would my message go to spam???

      If they don't get my message they don't get their freebie. Like Shaun said, they have to click a link in the first message they get.

      I think you seem very confused about the entire process.
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  • Profile picture of the author clever7
    You're saying, in effect, that you'll subscribe to the lists of marketers who build their lists using single opt-in, but not to the lists of those using confirmed opt-in.

    Why is that?



    Hi Alexa! Thank you for participating of the discussion.

    You are distorting my words. I didn't have the intention to say that those who are smart and use single opt-in have my email address in their list.

    My intention was to discuss if it would be a good idea to ask for confirmation in a second email message, reminding the potential subscriber that something else must be done, because we may suddenly receive an email message exactly when we are very excited with a certain ebook, and the email message may be more important than the ebook, or something else may happen exactly at the crucial moment, and we may forget our initial enthusiasm with a certain ebook and never again decide to read it.

    At the same time I wanted to criticize this aggressive behavior online. I think that some people are exaggerating because they are asking for confirmation multiple times. How many times? Perhaps this is a new phenomenon.
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    • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
      Banned
      Originally Posted by clever7 View Post

      I didn't have the intention to say that those who are smart and use single opt-in have my email address in their list.
      I appreciate that you didn't have that intention.

      But that's still - clearly! - the outcome of what you're doing.

      Clearly, you're subscribing to the lists of marketers who use single opt-in but not subscribing to the lists of those who use opt-in confirmation. I'm not complaining about it, Christina (and I use mostly single opt-in anyway): it's your right to join, or not join, any lists you like, without giving anyone any reasons for it at all. I hope you'll excuse my observing that I think it's a very unusual thing to do, and somewhat arbitrary, and I don't understand how it can help you, to decide whether or not you successfully subscribe according to whether or not the list-owner requests email confirmation.
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      • Profile picture of the author Richard Van
        Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

        Clearly, you're subscribing to the lists of marketers who use single opt-in but not subscribing to the lists of those who use opt-in confirmation.
        This. I appreciate you wish to discuss the issue of sending a confirmation reminder and often more than once.

        I just don't see how confirming makes you not want the book and had I done the single optin, you'd be on my list, you'd have my book and you won't unsubscribe because, as you said, it's often a waste of time.

        I'm doing this all wrong.
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  • Profile picture of the author funtler
    Yes double opt-in to confirm your email. You can simply ignore, unsubscribe AND/OR block that.
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  • Profile picture of the author clever7
    Clearly, you're subscribing to the lists of marketers who use single opt-in but not subscribing to the lists of those who use opt-in confirmation. I'm not complaining about it, Christina: it's your right to join, or not join, any lists you like, without giving anyone any reasons for it at all. I hope you'll excuse my observing that I think it's a very unusual thing to do, and I don't understand why.



    I don’t think that it’s unusual. If I have something more important to do I will stop caring about internet marketing and work on what is more important for me.

    Whenever I have time I care about learning more. Wish I had the time to read everything that seems to be interesting.

    Sometimes I read the free ebooks I care about, and I’m subscribed to numerous email lists. I didn't say that I never read anything. I was just observing the fact that many people are sending messages asking me to confirm ebooks I cared about a long time ago. I have never received these messages in the past.
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  • Profile picture of the author clever7
    After the discussion we had here I went back to my email box and I found out that one of the ebook owners who was sending me multiple messages asking me to confirm my subscription was using Aweber. Another insistent one was not. Anyhow, I didn't have time to look for more confirmation messages.

    I sent the following message to Aweber:

    Hi!
    I would like to ask you: how many times your customers can send a message asking someone to subscribe to their email list after downloading a free ebook?
    Im constantly receiving messages entitled Please Confirm because sometimes I dont download the ebooks I find online and I forget about this matter later.
    Im surprised to see that many people are sending me multiple messages asking me to confirm I want to be part of their email list.
    Is this legal?
    How can they know who didn't confirm?
    Here is an example:
    Please Confirm xxxxxxx@xxxxx.com via aweber.com
    I dont even remember when I cared about their ebook....
    Here is another one, even though I dont know if this person is using Aweber:
    Confirmation Required xxxxxxxx@xxxxxxxx.com via netprosoftmail.com
    This is happening to me quite frequently lately, while in the past I have never received constant messages asking me to confirm I want to belong to someones email list and download their ebook if I would change my mind. Only one confirmation message.
    Could you help me understand what is going on?
    Thank you!

    And here is the answer I had:

    Good day! Thanks for reaching out to us about this. That is somewhat odd since the confirmation can only send out once by default. The only time it can send out multiple times is via a subscriber prompt.
    Are these emails going to myemail@xxxxxxxx.com? Since it looks like http://xxxxxxx.com/ is a bogus domain and the other one cited definitely isn't coming through AWeber given the via address. Thanks in advance, I'm happy to get to the bottom of this with you. If you have any other questions, comments, or concerns feel free to contact us as we're happy to help.

    I don't know if this answer can be considered to be helpful, and if the mystery was solved.
    In any case, it explains something.



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  • Profile picture of the author Stuart Walker
    I've never seen multiple confirmation emails being sent out by the same marketer if you don't confirm the first one.

    The fact is if you want the ebook for free then you have to do what the marketer wants (i.e. confirm) otherwise you don't get it. If you aren't happy then you're not going to get the ebook.
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  • Profile picture of the author clever7
    I've tried to make sense of this but am having no luck.

    No one is being forced to do anything. They are told (by me anyway) that they can unsub any time with one click.

    Why would my message go to spam???

    If they don't get my message they don't get their freebie. Like Shawn said, they have to click a link in the first message they get.

    I think you seem very confused about the entire process.



    Your first email message with the ebook’s link will be received because whoever subscribed to your list cares about the free ebook you are giving them, but your next email messages will go directly to the spam folder because most internet users are not interested on email messages. They care only about the information they find in free ebooks.

    So, there is no point on trying to get more subscribers without letting them think twice.

    They will read your ebook, forget your existence, and easily get rid or your annoying messages through the spam folder. They won't have the trouble to try to unsubscribe from your list because your unsubscribe link can be fake, and they don’t want to waste their time.

    Therefore, it is better to ask for a confirmation message (one) so that you my have subscribers who really accept your email messages, and care about reading them.

    Perhaps a reminder is OK in case they forgot to confirm, but more than that is too much.

    If you want to force everyone to belong to your list without giving them the chance to think twice about this matter, they will treat you the same way.

    They will simply read your free ebook, and forever ignore your email messages.
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    • Profile picture of the author RogueOne
      Originally Posted by clever7 View Post



      Your first email message with the ebook's link will be received because whoever subscribed to your list cares about the free ebook you are giving them, but your next email messages will go directly to the spam folder because most internet users are not interested on email messages. They care only about the information they find in free ebooks.

      So, there is no point on trying to get more subscribers without letting them think twice.

      They will read your ebook, forget your existence, and easily get rid or your annoying messages through the spam folder. They won't have the trouble to try to unsubscribe from your list because your unsubscribe link can be fake, and they don't want to waste their time.

      Therefore, it is better to ask for a confirmation message (one) so that you my have subscribers who really accept your email messages, and care about reading them.

      Perhaps a reminder is OK in case they forgot to confirm, but more than that is too much.

      If you want to force everyone to belong to your list without giving them the chance to think twice about this matter, they will treat you the same way.

      They will simply read your free ebook, and forever ignore your email messages.
      That makes even less sense.

      You are talking about what you do.

      If that were true of everyone then none of us would use email marketing.

      I rarely get spam complaints on broadcasts. I've never gotten one on my follow-up series. And the rock-solid reason I know not everyone is like you is because I make money from my lists.

      Don't look now, but your ignorance is showing.
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      • Profile picture of the author Nightengale
        Originally Posted by RogueOne View Post

        Don't look now, but your ignorance is showing.
        This.

        Oh. My. Word!

        I've NEVER experienced receiving multiple confirmation messages. My own vendors (AWeber and 1 Shopping Cart) wouldn't allow me to do such a thing, even if I wanted to.

        I've spent a LOT of money over the years learning online marketing. And I've stayed subscribed to the lists of some very big names for many years because along the way, I learned to 1) discern who the real experts in the field are and 2) appreciate the value of good information and resources (including PAID resources) that someone was kind enough to share with me.

        I'm not looking for just "e-books." In fact, except for short, tight info, I somewhat look down on "e-books." I much prefer the "real" thing in a "real" physical course at a "real" price.

        Ali Brown was the original "E-zine Queen" and taught me much about e-mail marketing, including the all-important art and science of balancing giving your list real value in free information with promotions that very specifically fill the needs of your list from a place of service, not just mercenary avarice.

        7 or 8 year later, I'm still subscribed AND have spent a few thousand dollars with her over the years (about $3,300). She's also the first one who started clearing away the IM fog of confusion for me and introduced me to many people I've now followed for years, the who's who of IM, including my own mentor, Sheri Keys.

        Jeff Walker is another one. He doesn't really send out much e-mail (bummer!), but I save every message and pay attention to what he does. I also invested in Product Launch Formula ($2K) in late 2011, a VERY worthwhile purchase.

        I pay a LOT of attention to what my own mentor, Sheri Keys, is doing and save EVERY message and promotion, sales page and I bookmark her videos. I've also spent a very worthwhile $12.5K with her.

        All of these people have done me a tremendous service with their work. They put their heart and soul into what they do and offer value in excess of what they charge. I've been privileged to learn from them.

        These people are 7-figure business owners and if you want to make money online, you'd do well to study them and save everything they send. (And pray they send more!)

        It seems to me you'd do well to 1) educate yourself more about the value of online marketing and your subscriptions and 2) find better lists to subscribe to!

        So many people feel scammed, or at least used and abused by IMers. Understandably so. But that only underscores the need to be more picky about what you buy and who you subscribe/listen to.

        I'm SUPER picky about who I listen to/buy from and it's served me very well.

        Michelle
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      • Profile picture of the author BIG Mike
        Banned
        Originally Posted by RogueOne View Post

        Don't look now, but your ignorance is showing.
        Just file this thread under, "OP hasn't got a clue ", because she isn't really interested in the responses being given.

        For someone who professes to do research on her website, I'm surprised that she sees a once off event as a pattern rather than an anomaly. I'm even more surprised that she bases her conclusions on her own personal preferences rather than empirical data in her explanation of how "Everyone" responds to subscribing to a list.

        @OP - Email marketing has been around for more than a decade and the accepted methodology used for it consists of "Best Practices", which are based on gaining optimal results while not violating anti-spam laws.

        In a typical automated subscription system using double-opt in, only one confirmation email is sent. However, there is always the chance that the email was not received in a timely manner, got filtered by anti-spam systems or just plain got overlooked.

        Whether or not sending a second or even a third follow up might be effective is something that needs to be tested carefully - not based on what the crowd thinks or her own response. A reminder email to confirm a subscription is NOT spam, assuming of course it does not contain a commercial offer (or lead to a commercial offer).

        ESP's like Aweber or GetResponse may not even allow it (I don't know), but simply assuming that, as the OP has, it will be poorly received because she finds it annoying isn't the best approach to take.

        It's actually much simpler to go to a single-opt in model in the first place (assuming your ESP or hosting service allows it). Contrary to what the OP thinks "Everyone" will do (mark it as spam), it's just as effective and cuts out a step that potentially loses genuine subscribers.
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  • Profile picture of the author clever7
    These guys are giving you something valuable for free (they spent time or money to create the ebook that possibly include useful info) and you are not even showing enough respect to give them your real email address. If you want to talk about "not respecting", I think you are taking the initiative there...lol


    I guess you didn't read this thread from the beginning. Wish I had the time to read all the interesting free ebooks I find online. I really want to, and I do read many free and paid ebooks.
    However, many times I have other things to do and I’m obliged to stop caring about learning how to do this or that by reading an ebook.
    Later, I forget about the ebook that got my attention, and this is why I never confirm that I want to download it and be part of the ebook owner’s list.
    Other times I confirm and I read the ebook, and even the email messages I receive. It depends on many factors.




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  • Profile picture of the author clever7
    Don't look now, but your ignorance is showing.



    I admit that I’m ignorant. Internet marketing is not my field. I started this discussion with the mere purpose to discuss this matter. I like this forum because people criticize what is going on online.

    I’m glad because so many people had something to say about it.

    I’m a business owner who must know how the internet works and make sales, and this is why I frequently visit this forum. I’m not selling my internet marketing knowledge here. I’m a student, and not a teacher.

    As a matter of fact, I’m a customer for all internet marketers because I buy products related to making sales. So, I was discussing the insistence on sending multiple messages asking for a confirmation.

    I give away a free ebook too. I imitate what you do in your field. So, I thought that this matter about email marketing was a good one for a discussion.

    My ignorance concerning email marketing is immense.

    I admit that my behavior is not the right one when I send the email messages of someone to the spam folder because I don’t want to have the trouble to try to unsubscribe because I’m afraid to waste my time for nothing because their unsubscribe link doesn’t give me the option to unsubscribe from their list. This happened to me more than 3 times.

    As a customer, since I buy products related to internet marketing, this is what I do. I feel that I’m a victim of most internet marketers online and I simply send their messages to the trash. I even sent John Chow’s email messages to the spam folder after advising him that he was annoying me with his constant email messages with offers. He told me that I was free to unsubscribe. I told him that he was not kind with me and that I will send his messages to the spam folder because whenever I may desire I will open the spam folder and read them. I don’t want to unsubscribe.

    He told me that he believes in the 20/80 law and if I’m not interested on what he has to say that I’m giving him expenses, something like them, I don’t remember his words exactly. I told him that we had a discussion at the warrior forum about the subject line of email messages that cause a negative reaction, and that email messages entitled ‘I need your help’ were part of the list. This was the subject line of his email message, which made me tell him to stop annoying me with his constant messages. I used to follow him and even participate of the discussions at his blog in the past, but now he is sending me only offers to make me buy something…



    I've NEVER experienced receiving multiple confirmation messages. My own vendors (AWeber and 1 Shopping Cart) wouldn't allow me to do such a thing, even if I wanted to.

    I’ve never seen this phenomenon happening before. I’m working online since 2007. However, I noticed that recently I’m receiving many messages asking me to confirm ebooks I didn't confirm in the past. This is not happening for the first time. It happened many times to me these days.

    Am I the only one who is receiving multiple messages asking for confirmation? I don’t think so. This is why I wanted to discuss this matter.

    Can this tactic be used in a positive way, even though it seems to be so annoying?

    Should we study this matter because many people forget the ebook they cared about a long time ago, but perhaps a reminder will make them desire to download it again?

    Of course the ridiculous insistence on asking for confirmation multiple times must be condemned. It is an abuse.

    However, perhaps a more sympathetic way to remind someone that they forgot what was so interesting in a certain free ebook some time ago is a good marketing technique.

    This is why I asked you: what do you think about this matter? - from the beginning. I was asking for opinions.
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    • Profile picture of the author BIG Mike
      Banned
      Originally Posted by clever7 View Post

      I feel that I'm a victim of most internet marketers online and I simply send their messages to the trash.
      Then quit subscribing to them :rolleyes:

      I even sent John Chow's email messages to the spam folder after advising him that he was annoying me with his constant email messages with offers. He told me that I was free to unsubscribe. I told him that he was not kind with me and that I will send his messages to the spam folder because whenever I may desire I will open the spam folder and read them. I don't want to unsubscribe.
      Now you're just being a jerk and should banned for intentionally harming someone else's legitimate business activities.
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  • Profile picture of the author CDawson
    Banned
    You are basically allowing them to collect your email in exchange for the free book. They can't add your email to the list until you confirm. No money involved.
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  • Profile picture of the author clever7
    For someone who professes to do research on her website, I'm surprised that she sees a once off event as a pattern rather than an anomaly. I'm even more surprised that she bases her conclusions on her own personal preferences rather than empirical data in her explanation of how "Everyone" responds to subscribing to a list.
    Now you're just being a jerk and should banned for intentionally harming someone else's legitimate business activities.



    This is an interesting point of view. I feel that I’m bombarded with email messages without any helpful content.

    You shouldn’t be aggressive in a conversation. We are merely talking about email marketing techniques, customer behavior, and about a new phenomenon online: many people send multiple email messages asking for confirmation.

    Why am I being a jerk? I’m informing you that I send the undesired email messages to the spam folder, but that sometimes I open this folder because I care about some of the messages I find there, when I know where they come from. As a matter of fact, I try to open the spam folder everyday when I have the time, because many times important messages go there I don’t know why.


    You are basically allowing them to collect your email in exchange for the free book. They can't add your email to the list until you confirm. No money involved.





    Yes, no money involved, but it is an annoying insistence. It’s an aggressive behavior.
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    • Profile picture of the author Richard Van
      Originally Posted by clever7 View Post

      I’m informing you that I send the undesired email messages to the spam folder, but that sometimes I open this folder because I care about some of the messages I find there
      Why do you put messages you care about and want to come back to in the spam folder?

      Spam is spam, it is not something someone should be caring about, those messages have their own folder or are kept in the inbox.

      You are harming someones business by putting them in the spam folder yet you care about the emails.

      Forgive me but if you can't see how bizarre that is, this conversation is a waste of time.

      Again, I understand your point on continual confirmation messages but like many others, I've never come across this having subscribed and unsubscribed over many years from no doubt hundreds and hundreds of email lists.

      Indeed you are the first person to bring this to my attention after many years.
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      • Profile picture of the author scrunchie
        My autoresponder (Benchmark) allows you to resend a confirmation email to people that haven't yet confirmed. I used it once, when I first started, to around 10 people that hadn't done so. Nobody took me up after receiving the 2nd email (I can't remember if anyone opened it tbh) and I haven't bothered since then.

        The OP does have a strange attitude to email marketing consdering that he is on WF, but at the same time IMers should remember that this is what a lot of people out there do. For many, it is easier to click the spam button than to find the unsubscribe link. I know for a fact that my mother does it all the time. This is why we should never allow our emails to become intrusive or annoying.
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  • Profile picture of the author clever7
    Why do you put messages you care about and want to come back to in the spam folder?

    Spam is spam, it is not something someone should be caring about, those messages have their own folder or are kept in the inbox.

    You are harming someones business by putting them in the spam folder yet you care about the emails.

    Forgive me but if you can't see how bizarre that is, this conversation is a waste of time.

    Again, I understand your point on continual confirmation messages but like many others, I've never come across this having subscribed and unsubscribed over many years from no doubt hundreds and hundreds of email lists.

    Indeed you are the first person to bring this to my attention after many years.



    Some messages are annoying and I don’t want to have the trouble to unsubscribe because their unsubscribe link can be fake and I don’t want to waste my time trying to unsubscribe for nothing.

    It’s not my fault if this is happening online.

    Now, about the repeated messages asking for a confirmation, they seem to be a new phenomenon. I was thinking that perhaps others were experiencing the same. As I can see, I’m the only one who noticed this phenomenon. Perhaps because I’m the only one who reads too much and many times has no time to confirm one of the many ebooks I care about.

    Should I avoid giving my email address when I like a free ebook because I will keep receiving messages asking me to confirm I want to download it if I will change my mind? I never thought I should take this aspect into consideration.

    Am I wrong because I want to read many ebooks but I don’t have the time to read as many ebooks as I care about?

    Should I care more about the internet marketer who is sending me the ebook with the intention to keep sending me email messages after that and his/her business, and about how sad he will become if I won't confirm I really want his ebook?

    Or should I care about reading something interesting I found online when I will have the time to do so, without being so cautious about giving my email address because I may find interesting information in this free ebook if I will have the time to read it?
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    • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
      Banned
      Originally Posted by clever7 View Post

      Some messages are annoying and I don’t want to have the trouble to unsubscribe because their unsubscribe link can be fake and I don’t want to waste my time trying to unsubscribe for nothing.
      Then don't subscribe in the first place!!

      Originally Posted by clever7 View Post

      It’s not my fault if this is happening online.
      How you're dealing with it IS your fault, Christina. And you're dealing with it in a way that's totally illogical, unreasonable, and damaging to other people's businesses.

      It makes NO sense at all to elect to subscribe only to the lists of people who use single opt-in and not to those of marketers who request opt-in confirmation, but that's what you're doing.

      Seriously, you're the only one who's noticed this "problem" because you're the only person behaving this way.

      And I think you still don't even realise that - in effect - you're "doing it to yourself". You know me well enough to appreciate that I'm not trying to offend you at all, but you're simply not listening to what everyone else in the thread is telling you. By your own admission, you understand very little about email marketing. You had an opportunity here to learn something, but you made no attempt (so far) to take advantage of that. Sorry, but that's the way it is.
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    • Profile picture of the author Richard Van
      Originally Posted by clever7 View Post

      Some messages are annoying and I don’t want to have the trouble to unsubscribe because their unsubscribe link can be fake and I don’t want to waste my time trying to unsubscribe for nothing.
      So everyone goes to the spam folder?

      It’s not my fault if this is happening online.
      But it is your fault that you're harming other peoples business by putting their emails in the spam folder when you "care" about those emails and want to go back to them to read them.

      Now, about the repeated messages asking for a confirmation, they seem to be a new phenomenon. I was thinking that perhaps others were experiencing the same. As I can see, I’m the only one who noticed this phenomenon. Perhaps because I’m the only one who reads too much and many times has no time to confirm one of the many ebooks I care about.
      You're the "only" one that reads so much? Hardly.

      You are, however, the only person I've heard of that files emails she cares about in the spam folder and finds it abhorent you have to confirm a subscription to get a book.

      Should I avoid giving my email address when I like a free ebook because I will keep receiving messages asking me to confirm I want to download it if I will change my mind? I never thought I should take this aspect into consideration.
      I think you shouldn't be getting any ebooks if you find that confirming is such an issue and unsubscribing is as hard as you seem to find it.

      I'd use a fake email personally, confirm subscription and forward it to my real email.

      Am I wrong because I want to read many ebooks but I don’t have the time to read as many ebooks as I care about?
      No, you, like me, just want to read lots of books but with 24 hours each day, we're limited. That is life, nothing to worry about.

      Should I care more about the internet marketer who is sending me the ebook with the intention to keep sending me email messages after that and his/her business, and about how sad he will become if I won't confirm I really want his ebook?
      Look. You want his/her book. He wants your email. That is how it works. Get a fake account, confirm, get book and unsubscribe. If, if, you can't unsubscribe, who cares it's a fake email account that you only use for this purpose and you can report the message as spam if you feel you can't unsubscribe.

      This is not rocket science, I think you're over thinking this in a big way

      Or should I care about reading something interesting I found online when I will have the time to do so, without being so cautious about giving my email address because I may find interesting information in this free ebook if I will have the time to read it?
      Ok, you're thinking way too much.

      Why, with a fake email you don't care about, are you cautious of subscribing to something?

      I think you need to decide what you want to care about.
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  • Profile picture of the author clever7
    My autoresponder (Benchmark) allows you to resend a confirmation email to people that haven't yet confirmed. I used it once, when I first started, to around 10 people that hadn't done so. Nobody took me up after receiving the 2nd email (I can't remember if anyone opened it tbh) and I haven't bothered since then.

    The OP does have a strange attitude to email marketing consdering that he is on WF, but at the same time IMers should remember that this is what a lot of people out there do. For many, it is easier to click the spam button than to find the unsubscribe link. I know for a fact that my mother does it all the time. This is why we should never allow our emails to become intrusive or annoying.



    I think that your point of view is the wisest one in this thread.

    I'm having the attitude of those who are not internet marketers because internet marketing is not my field. I have to be an internet marketer though, because I have an online business.

    I only wanted to discuss the fact that many people are sending multiple messages asking for confirmation, and trying to understand if this is a behavior we should only condemn, or if we could use it in a positive way.

    About the spam folder, it is the destiny of those who are not careful with the content of their email messages and subject lines. I’m sure that my behavior is the behavior of many people online.

    I open the spam folder sometimes because I may care about someone’s messages sometimes. However, many internet users send the annoying messages to the spam folder and never open this folder. This is something we should take into consideration.
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    • Profile picture of the author Richard Van
      Originally Posted by clever7 View Post

      I think that your point of view is closest to my opinion in this thread.
      I think I may have fixed that for you.

      Don't forget, although wise, he also said...

      The OP does have a strange attitude to email marketing consdering that she is on WF
      Which is what I was getting at.

      Incidentally there's a thread I think you could shed some light on right above this one...

      http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...eople-opt.html
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      • Profile picture of the author Lady M
        I think the wise solution will be to ignore it for a while. see how far the sender keep sending the confirm email. once you realize this guy will not stop, report it a spam. this will punish the sender because they don't have a way to know that their opt in reject to view get the ebook.
        But if you want to deal with it as soon as possible, just confirm it, and then unsubscribe it. Both way are a viable options to stop this creep.
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    • Profile picture of the author Broyde
      Originally Posted by clever7 View Post

      I only wanted to discuss the fact that many people are sending multiple messages asking for confirmation, and trying to understand if this is a behavior we should only condemn, or if we could use it in a positive way.

      What do you think about this clever...until someone has confirmed, they have not opted into your list on the terms that you have set. If you did not care for the security of the opt in, you would not have asked them to confirm.

      If they do not confirm then they are avoiding the terms you have set and so it is probably best that you leave them alone.
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  • Profile picture of the author clever7
    Quote: I think that your point of view is closest to my opinion in this thread.


    I think I may have fixed that for you.

    Don't forget, although wise, he also said...

    Quote: The OP does have a strange attitude to email marketing consdering that she is on WF
    The OP does have a strange attitude to email marketing consdering that she is on WF
    Which is what I was getting at.

    Incidentally there's a thread I think you could shed some light on right above this one...

    Have no free stuff to give away, how to make people opt-in




    You are right. This is my opinion. This is not the absolute truth.

    The ‘strange behavior’ is because I have the behavior of someone who is not an internet marketer, and not because I don’t know how to use a free ebook to build an email list.

    Thank you for trying to help me understand how to use this technique. I’m an expert on my field and I’m a writer. I give away three free ebooks to my website visitors, and also samples of the ebooks I'm selling.

    I have two email lists. One of them built through a free ebook I give in my resource box under my articles, and another one built thanks to a subscription form I have at my second website.

    I noticed that many people unsubscribe from the list with the free ebook (because they care only about the ebook, and they don’t want to receive email messages), while only a few people unsubscribe from the list formed thanks to the subscription form.

    I surely have a lot to learn about email marketing. This is why I’m studying this matter and discussing this topic.

    Thank you for your participation.
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    • Profile picture of the author Richard Van
      Originally Posted by clever7 View Post

      You are right. This is my opinion. This is not the absolute truth.
      Exactly, just like mine.

      I wasn't being rude either, just trying to show you how I saw it, as I could see how you saw it.

      In fairness to you, you are a very calm, level headed person, you've dealt with any criticism admirably and I admire that a great deal.

      That's better than I can do.
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  • Profile picture of the author clever7
    Then don't subscribe in the first place!!

    How you're dealing with it IS your fault, Christina. And you're dealing with it in a way that's totally illogical, unreasonable, and damaging to other people's businesses.

    It makes NO sense at all to elect to subscribe only to the lists of people who use single opt-in and not to those of marketers who request opt-in confirmation, but that's what you're doing.


    Seriously, you're the only one who's noticed this "problem" because you're the only person behaving this way.

    And I think you still don't even realise that - in effect - you're "doing it to yourself". You know me well enough to appreciate that I'm not trying to offend you at all, but you're simply not listening to what everyone else in the thread is telling you. By your own admission, you understand very little about email marketing. You had an opportunity here to learn something, but you made no attempt (so far) to take advantage of that.
    Sorry, but that's the way it is.



    About the fact that only I observed the phenomenon of repeated email messages asking for confirmation when I forget to download an ebook because everyone else here always downloads the ebooks they care about and always confirms that they want to be part of the ebook owner’s email list, this is something I couldn't suppose.

    I thought that many people didn't have the time to confirm all the ebooks they care about like me.

    I already explained that instead of caring about the frustration of the ebook owner if I won't confirm my subscription and read his/her ebook I care more about not losing the opportunity to read something interesting if I will have the time to do so because I may find helpful information there. If I will have to seriously think half an hour before deciding to download an ebook or not, I may never decide to download anything.

    You all seem to believe that I should spend my time trying to unsubscribe when I’m not happy with someone’s emails, even if this person will make me waste my time because their unsubscribe link is false.

    As a business owner who understands how internet marketing works, I should respect the internet marketing laws and insist on trying to unsubscribe from someone’s list, without thinking about my time and my frustration if their link is fake.

    I sincerely cannot agree with this concept. I believe that my time is more valuable than the false impression I will give to an internet marketer who believes that I’m reading his/her messages.

    I’ve unsubscribed from many lists when this option worked and I have even written my comments about why I was unsubscribing, but after the deceptions I had with this fake unsubscribe links, I decided to simply send all messages to the spam folder.

    However, for me the spam folder doesn’t represent death. I take a look at it many times, and if I find an interesting message there from an internet marketer I know, I will open it.

    I believe that the point is that many people do the same thing online, and that we should be very careful about what kind of email messages we send to our subscribers.


    In fairness to you, you are a very calm, level headed person, you've dealt with any criticism admirably and I admire that a great deal.

    That's better than I can do.



    Thank you for your kindness!

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    • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
      Banned
      Originally Posted by clever7 View Post

      You all seem to believe that I should spend my time trying to unsubscribe when I’m not happy with someone’s emails even if this person will make me waste my time because their unsubscribe link is false.
      I'm honestly not suggesting this at all, Christina.

      All I'm suggesting is that if you see an opt-in box on someone's site (squeeze page, or anything else), don't put your email address into it, if you're not willing to confirm it when you get the first confirmation request from their autoresponder. Then you won't be (as you are at the moment) joining only single opt-in lists and not confirmation opt-in lists, which really, really makes no sense at all and is what's causing you this entirely avoidable problem.

      That's it - simple, easy and straightforward.

      And, from your perspective, a complete solution to the problem you originally described in post #1. It really is as simple as that.
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    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
      As a business owner who understands how internet marketing works, I should respect the internet marketing laws and insist on trying to unsubscribe from someone's list, without thinking about my time and my frustration if their link is fake.

      I sincerely cannot agree with this concept. I believe that my time is more valuable than the false impression I will give to an internet marketer who believes that I'm reading his/her messages.
      Your expectations are unrealistic if you think marketers online are giving away ebooks without hoping to get something in return (a list signup).

      You talk about your "valuable time" - but someone else used their valuable time to provide an ebook for YOU to download. If you don't want to confirm...ignore the emails. If you don't want "please confirm" emails - don't download free products.

      I know some MLMs tell their members they can send "please confirm" emails for up to 30 days after someone asks for or downloads information.
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    • Profile picture of the author natf
      Originally Posted by clever7 View Post

      You all seem to believe that I should spend my time trying to unsubscribe when I'm not happy with someone's emails, even if this person will make me waste my time because their unsubscribe link is false.

      As a business owner who understands how internet marketing works, I should respect the internet marketing laws and insist on trying to unsubscribe from someone's list, without thinking about my time and my frustration if their link is fake.
      It sounds to me like you're assuming every link is fake simply because some are.

      That's absolutely untrue, and by sending legitimate marketers' emails to the spam folder to save yourself some time and the *potential* of the unsubscribe not actually working, you're willfully damaging those people's businesses.

      If too many people mark their email as spam, it will affect their overall deliverability and could potentially affect other people using the same email service. Which could even include you, if you happen to use the same email provider.

      Judging from your signature link, you're involved in the dream interpretation market. How would you feel if someone was scammed by another marketer, so they automatically assumed you were just as big a scammer? To the point of reporting you to the FTC or some other authority that could have a negative impact on your business?

      That's pretty much what you're doing - painting all marketers with the same brush, based on a few scammers.

      Besides, if it's your time that's really at issue here, you're going to save a lot more time by unsubscribing and never seeing those emails again than by sending them to spam and then sorting through them at some point down the road.

      And if you actually want to read them, there's obviously more value there than you're admitting.
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    • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
      Christina,

      You said Aweber told you the emails weren't coming from them. You also said the unsubscribe links were fake.

      Apparently, you repeatedly fall for spammers traps. I can guess at the promises being made, given you said you're interested in traffic, but you know the old saying, if it sounds too good to be true...

      Admittedly I don't know you, but it seems to me you need to use a little more discretion in what you sign up for. One trick that might help, is to view the source code of the page where the sign up form is. If it the form is submitted to Aweber, GetResponse, or one of the other big email service providers, chances are they'll have legitimate unsubscribe links. If the sign up form goes to a script on their own domain, that doesn't necessarily mean they are spammers or will have fake unsubscribe links, but it probably does increase the odds of it.

      Hope that helps.

      PS - Reporting legitimate emails as spam costs the sender reputation and money. Please be careful only to report true spammers, and not the business owners whose lists you really did subscribe to.
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      • Profile picture of the author JimDucharme
        Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill View Post

        Christina,

        One trick that might help, is to view the source code of the page where the sign up form is. If it the form is submitted to Aweber, GetResponse, or one of the other big email service providers, chances are they'll have legitimate unsubscribe links. If the sign up form goes to a script on their own domain, that doesn't necessarily mean they are spammers or will have fake unsubscribe links, but it probably does increase the odds of it.

        Hope that helps.

        PS - Reporting legitimate emails as spam costs the sender reputation and money. Please be careful only to report true spammers, and not the business owners whose lists you really did subscribe to.
        Dennis is correct. Speaking in general, I would venture to state that if it's a shared IP arrangement, than it's a given that the unsub link will be appended to the email. In this shared environment, everyone's actions can affect everyone else and so, whenever possible, the Email Service Provider (ESP) won't leave room for human error or abuse.

        When it's an enterprise client who is using a bank of their own IP's, it's likely they are solely responsible for inserting the link. In that case, if you don't see the unsub link, report them to their ESP. Trust me, in almost every case, the ESP will act more quickly to deal with the person than a regulator will. It's their business this person may be damaging with their actions.

        Regards,
        jim
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        • Profile picture of the author Kay King
          The problem with this thread is the original question asked changes along the way and it gets slippery...

          As a business owner who understands how internet marketing works
          I'm a business owner who is not an expert on internet marketing
          I have the behavior of someone who is not an internet marketer
          If you are selling online - you are an internet marketer. If you are building lists, you understand the list building process. I have friends who have nothing to do with working online - but they understand the list signup process. They know if they get "something for nothing" there's often a string attached (confirmation emails).

          "Spam" is not "something I don't like"....it is unsolicited email. If you have given your address in exchange for a free product, a confirmation email (or several) is not "unsolicited.

          Your initial post was about receiving multiple confirmation emails - how many and over how long a period of time?

          kay
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  • Profile picture of the author clever7
    I'm honestly not suggesting this at all, Christina.

    All I'm suggesting is that if you see an opt-in box on someone's site (squeeze page, or anything else), don't put your email address into it, if you're not willing to confirm it when you get the first confirmation request from their autoresponder. Then you won't be (as you are at the moment) joining only single opt-in lists and not confirmation opt-in lists, which really, really makes no sense at all and is causing you this entirely avoidable problem.

    That's it - simple, easy and straightforward.

    And, from your perspective, a complete solution to the problem you originally described in post #1. It really is as simple as that.


    You talk about your "valuable time" - but someone else used their valuable time to provide an ebook for YOU to download. If you don't want to confirm...ignore the emails. If you don't want "please confirm" emails - don't download free products.



    Perhaps I should have a more responsible behavior and think about the frustration of the ebook owners who won't have my confirmation, since I’m a business owner too. I was not taking this aspect into consideration.

    I was looking at this matter based on different criteria.

    I believed that the fact that I easily decide to download a free ebook was something positive for me, and also for the free ebook owners.

    If I would be too selective I wouldn’t give my email address so easily, and probably never decide to download a free ebook.

    However, thanks to my facility on accepting to download the various interesting free ebooks I find online, I may read some of them if I will have the time to do so.

    If someone would ask me if I preferred to see only people who are 100% sure that they want to download my free ebook give me their email address, or if I didn't mind seeing that also people who are not so sure give me their email address the same way, I would say that I don’t mind collecting email addresses and sending a confirmation message to those who never confirm.

    Those who are not so sure may decide to read my free ebook in the end.

    If they were afraid to give me their email address, I would have no chances to perhaps have their attention.





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  • Profile picture of the author clever7
    It sounds to me like you're assuming every link is fake simply because some are.

    That's absolutely untrue, and by sending legitimate marketers' emails to the spam folder to save yourself some time and the *potential* of the unsubscribe not actually working, you're willfully damaging those people's businesses.

    If too many people mark their email as spam, it will affect their overall deliverability and could potentially affect other people using the same email service. Which could even include you, if you happen to use the same email provider.

    I'm sorry. I had no idea that the fact that I was sending email messages to the spam folder was causing damages to the business owner who is sending them. I thought that the spam folder had no importance at all.

    In this case I will be more careful. I won't do it if it causes damages.






    Judging from your signature link, you're involved in the dream interpretation market. How would you feel if someone was scammed by another marketer, so they automatically assumed you were just as big a scammer? To the point of reporting you to the FTC or some other authority that could have a negative impact on your business?

    That's pretty much what you're doing - painting all marketers with the same brush, based on a few scammers.

    Besides, if it's your time that's really at issue here, you're going to save a lot more time by unsubscribing and never seeing those emails again than by sending them to spam and then sorting through them at some point down the road.

    And if you actually want to read them, there's obviously more value there than you're admitting.





    Yes, it’s a shame that some internet marketers have caused so many problems online with their falsity that they are generating a negative behavior that didn’t exist before.

    Pay attention to the facts:


    1. Internet marketers are sending multiple messages asking for a confirmation instead of sending only the regular one. I open my special account for things that are not related to my business and I find there everyday a message entitled ‘Please Confirm’ and another one with the subject line: ‘Confirmation Required’. It looks like a joke. I surely don't care about downloading ebooks everyday.


    2. Internet marketers are not respecting the unsubscribe link, and sending their subscribers to a page where they don't have the option to unsubscribe from their list. This is an irritating waste of time. You open the page and you find a list with email lists, but no way to unsubscribe.


    3. Internet marketers keeps sending messages with offers and more offers, without sending any useful information to their subscribers.


    Result:


    1. Online users are becoming afraid to decide to download a free ebook because if they will change their mind they won't be respected. They will keep receiving messages asking them to confirm they want to be part of the ebook’s owner email list and download their free ebook.


    2. Online users are sending all annoying messages to the spam folder, without trying to unsubscribe by using the unsubscribe link because they are afraid that it is a fake link, and they feel that they are treated as if they were stupid victims.


    3. Subscribers ignore all messages, even if they don't unsubscribe or send them to the spam folder. They simply never open these messages.


    Now, everyone can think about these facts and conclude something.


    My personal conclusion from this discussion is that the free ebook you give to your new subscribers must be very good because this is basically what they care about. You have to make them understand that you really are the best expert in your field, so that they make really care about your work and become your fans and followers, always read your messages, and even thank you for sending them.


















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    • Profile picture of the author Nightengale
      Christina,

      It's good that you're here to learn Internet marketing. That's what the Warrior Forum is for. yes, there are a lot of IMers selling to other IMers. Personally, I think it's better if you don't, so it's good that you're not.

      As others have mentioned, sending someone's messages to the spam folder but keeping them around because you might want to read them later absolutely defies all logic. You've gotten some good advice from Alexa, Richard and others. I'm not trying to be rude, but it sounds like you need some basic inbox management skills.

      But honestly, I've NEVER come across the issues you've mentioned (multiple confirmation e-mails and fake unsubscribe links) in 15 years or more online. I have to wonder who you're subscribing to??? No reputable list service (AWeber, etc.) would allow such a thing. I've NEVER seen a fake unsubscribe link (not saying they don't exist), so this problem is not nearly as big as you're making it out to be.

      As the others have mentioned, you talk about trying to build a list of your own to market to, yet you willfully (if unknowingly) damage other people's businesses with the way you handle your own inbox. (That just boggles my mind.) And yes, you're causing your own situation/problem with the way you manage your inbox.

      Yes, your time is valuable, but so is the marketer's. And they've invested WAY more time in providing you that freebie than you did in subscribing to get it. And it's not really free. It's an exchange of value. They want your contact info, you want the freebie. It's a fair exchange.

      A few tips to help you:

      1. If you don't want to use your real e-mail address, create a separate one just for your subscriptions. (You can forward messages to your real e-mail if you want them there.)

      2. Once you find some people you want to stay subscribed to, you can create separate folders just for their e-mails and put them in that folder as they come in. This includes the initial e-mails with the freebie.

      I have folders marked "Ali Brown", "Jeff Walker", "Sheri Keys", etc. These are well-known business people and they ALWAYS send out good stuff. I know I want to keep them, but since there's so much e-mail, creating separate folders helps me keep it all organized. Especially since I often don't have time to read it right when it comes in.

      (THIS is what you do with e-mails you want to refer back to -- NOT put them in the spam folder!)

      As a marketer myself, it allows me to track and save messages in an entire campaign, which gives me something to model when creating my own campaigns. These people are 7-figure entrepreneurs, so I'm swiping from the best.

      3. You can even set a "rule" in your e-mail program to have e-mails from specific addresses automatically filtered to specific folders so you never see them in your inbox. This is a great management tool if you know you want to receive someone's e-mail, but don't want your inbox overwhelmed or read it right when it comes in.

      For example, I do this with Ali Brown's e-mails. I used to read everything she sent when she sent it. I hung on every word and bought several of her courses.

      I'm a bit beyond what she's teaching now and no longer want to see everything she's sending out. But she's still a VERY savvy and successful marketer and I want to reference what she does when necessary. So I created a "rule" that automatically filters all of her e-mails to the "Ali Brown" folder.

      That way I can stay subscribed but never see her stuff in my inbox. But it's all there in the "Ali Brown" folder when I want to refer to it.

      4. Trash only those which need to be trashed and mark messages as "spam" ONLY if they're truly spam. (!!!!!) And stop hurting other people's businesses.

      5. Get more selective with who you subscribe to. I learned early on to get very picky about who I let in my inbox. If the people you're subscribing to really do have "fake" unsubscribe links, ignore them and NEVER get anything from them again (free or paid). They've already proven they have no integrity, which means they're not worth listening to on any level.

      Once you've applied these inbox management tips, THEN take the 10 seconds to click on an unsubscribe link if you really want to be unsubscribed. If you're subscribing to a reputable marketer, it will be a valid link.

      And once you're managing your inbox well and subscribing ONLY to people worth listening to, you won't have to click "unsubscribe" very often. You surely can spare the 10 seconds it takes to do so.

      Hope that helps!

      Michelle
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  • Profile picture of the author clever7
    Thank you for your participation in this discussion. This thread is quite long, so many of you are not reading all the answers.

    I had no idea that the spam folder meant a big damage. I thought that it was simply a trash can. I already said I will never send messages I dislike to the spam folder again, now that I learned that it is harmful for the business owner. I’ve never read anything about the importance of the spam folder. Fortunately, you showed me this important detail.

    One of the repeated messages asking me to confirm my subscription comes from Aweber, and somewhere in this thread you’ll find an explanation sent by Aweber when I asked them about this matter.

    Anyhow, my intention was not to complain about the messages asking for confirmation, but to analyze this phenomenon. It has many negative sides, but it can be used in a positive way if we will be gentle.

    I guess that we can conclude from this discussion that many internet marketers have no idea about how the average online user thinks and behaves.

    I represent one of your customers, since I’m a business owner who is not an expert on internet marketing. I believe that the attitude of many internet marketers who disrespect the public ignorance is ruining the internet, and this is why many honest business owners are treated as if they were dangerous thieves.

    As a business owner who comes to this forum mainly in order to learn more about internet marketing, I’m trying to learn something from this research and understand how to treat my subscribers.

    Thank you for your valuable lessons!
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  • Profile picture of the author clever7
    If you are selling online - you are an internet marketer. If you are building lists, you understand the list building process. I have friends who have nothing to do with working online - but they understand the list signup process. They know if they get "something for nothing" there's often a string attached (confirmation emails).

    "Spam" is not "something I don't like"....it is unsolicited email. If you have given your address in exchange for a free product, a confirmation email (or several) is not "unsolicited.

    Your initial post was about receiving multiple confirmation emails - how many and over how long a period of time?

    kay




    I have received many confirmation requests lately, I don’t remember exactly when I started noticing them, but they are frequent. I’m receiving them since last year, or before.

    I was not complaining but observing this phenomenon and analyzing this technique.

    Perhaps those who insist are hoping that you may have forgotten when exactly you had cared about their free offer. You may open their email and click on the confirmation link because you have decided to read various free ebooks, and among all the new confirmation messages you are receiving, you may accidentally open an old confirmation message. So, they keep sending it.

    I’m not angry with them. I’m only criticizing the intention of those who send multiple confirmation messages and the negative effect of this practice when it is done without respecting the online user.

    It could be used in a smart way, without being annoying.

    About being an internet marketer, yes I have to be one since I’m selling my products online, but I don’t sell products related to internet marketing, what means that my style is totally different.


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    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
      I'm receiving them since last year, or before.
      That's crazy - can't imagine it would be productive to keep sending confirmation requests a year after a freebie was downloaded.

      I thought there was a limit to how long you could continue to send such requests - but that may be a limit imposed by certain programs online rather than a legal limit.
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  • Profile picture of the author clever7
    I’m not saying that the same people are sending me email messages asking for confirmation for so long. I started noticing these multiple confirmation messages since last year or before, but it didn't really bother me because they were going to my second email address.

    I recently paid more attention to this matter because two free ebook owners are sending me these messages all the time. This is why I decided to ask you if this is happening to you too, if you use this method, if you think that this behavior is harmful or not, etc.

    I guess that the free ebooks I care about are not the type of ebooks that experienced internet marketers read, and this is why only I seem to be receiving multiple messages asking for confirmation.

    BTW, I unsubscribed from 3 email lists today, and their links worked without any problem. Two of them were from Aweber, and the third one was from Constant Contact. I noticed in this last one that their unsubscribe link says: ‘Safe Unsubscribe’.

    I believe that this company knows that many people are afraid to waste their time clicking on an unsubscribe link because many times it is fake, and this is why they are confirming that their link is a Safe unsubscribe link that works for sure, to avoid having their messages sent to the spam folder.

    I’m sure that most online users don’t know that by sending someone’s email messages to the spam folder they are causing damage to the business owner (the same way I ignored this fact) and they frequently do that.

    Therefore, this is something that everyone must take into consideration.











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  • Profile picture of the author Stuart Walker
    So has anyone apart from the OP ever experienced this continued 'please confirm' emails? Also the fake unsubscribe links are something I've heard talked about but never actually seen myself though I am particular in to what I sign up for.
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  • Profile picture of the author clever7
    I think the wise solution will be to ignore it for a while. see how far the sender keep sending the confirm email. once you realize this guy will not stop, report it a spam. this will punish the sender because they don't have a way to know that their opt in reject to view get the ebook.
    But if you want to deal with it as soon as possible, just confirm it, and then unsubscribe it. Both way are a viable options to stop this creep.




    The point is not how I can get rid of these messages. The point is what is going on online.

    The internet changed very much. More people are trying to make money online everyday. Everyone wants to work at home, whenever they want, and without having a boss.

    However, it seems that the new internet marketers are not respecting the internet laws. They are distorting the marketing system with their ‘smart’ ideas.

    It also seems that the online users are tired with the aggressive behavior of these internet marketers, and this is why they are getting rid of all annoying messages by sending them to the spam folder.

    Violence generates violence.

    I had the intention to discuss the philosophy behind reminding our potential subscribers that they forgot to do something when they don’t confirm their subscription, in a very polite and gentle style, but in the end our conversation didn't follow the road I had in mind.

    I’m really sorry because I didn't know that the spam folder was so harmful and I was considering it as if it was a third email box for trash, without any importance. I feel like an idiot now that I realize how stupid I was.

    The truth is that email marketing is a topic I completely ignore. I have never had the time to concentrate my attention on my email marketing. The knowledge I have about this matter is totally superficial.

    I concentrated my attention on article writing because this is what I like to do. I forgot to pay attention to email marketing, which is based on writing the same way.

    I told myself numerous times that I have to organize my email messages, but I never do it. My email messages were not well-organized.

    I waste my time looking for free traffic generating methods, while I could use the traffic I already have from my subscribers. In this point I feel I’m an idiot again.



    I will study email marketing and use this marketing technique the right way.

    Thank you very much for opening my eyes!








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  • Profile picture of the author Rbtmarshall
    maybe it was only single opt-in and the confirmation page was fake.


    Good thing you didn't click on confirm. you would have probably got twice as much spam.


    maybe they scraped the email you entered into the opt-in box and added it to another database to use for shady purposes,



    maybe
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