WANTED: Affiliate programs etc that allow outcome testing.

wordofmouthmagic · 04-20-2009, 02:15 AM

Hi,

I'm trying to monetize my thankyou pages, but for multivariate testing on that page I need to register when money is earned / a sale is made.

If I backend to a product I control then this is easy. I simply put tracking code into the thankyou page for that backend offer.

But how can I measure the money I make selling other products eg affiliate ones, in a way that can be automatically fed back into my multivariate testing?

Please give me your suggestions for methods, products, or programs.

Much appreciated,
Martin Russell

unitminer · 04-20-2009, 02:18 AM

I'm not sure if I understand you right, but you want to track sales you made on other websites as affiliate of other merchants ?

stevenh512 · 04-20-2009, 03:15 AM

You could use something like AdTrackz if you can talk the person who controls the affiliate product's thankyou page into adding a tiny piece of code to that page (the piece of code would help not only you, but any of his other affiliates who use AdTrackz). You could also try using Google Analytics, but again that relies on you being able to talk the person who controls the thankyou page into adding a piece of code (and unlike the AdTrackz route, this one would be specific to you).

Basically, almost any solution to this problem is going to require the person who controls the thankyou page to modify it for you.. with one exception. If you're promoting Clickbank affiliate programs you could always write a Clickbank "IPN" script and tell CB to post to that script whenever you make a sale (unlike Paypal, Paydotcom, etc. Clickbank's IPN will post to the merchant and the affiliate when a sale is made).

unitminer · 04-20-2009, 03:19 AM

I don't think, that other person will want to put ANY code on his thank you page.

there is couple of side effects:
1. you will be able to track number of sales of this merchant, you can compute average sale value and compute overall sales amount, etc.
2. you can track traffic of this merchant

... simply for other merchants it is too high risk to put such code on their web site if they don't know you.

stevenh512 · 04-20-2009, 03:26 AM

unitminer, I know there are some merchants will will put google analytics code on their thank you pages, but only for certain affiliates. Also, I don't think the AdTrackz solution I mentioned above would suffer from the side effects you mentioned, it allows any affiliate using AdTrackz to track their own sales (and as far as I know, only their own sales) without having to add a specific piece of code for each affiliate.

But that being said, I really think the best solution if you're promoting Clickbank products is to write your own custom IPN script (or have one written for you) to track your sales. This doesn't require any changes on the merchant's end, just a script on your server and one change in your own CB account to track all of your sales.

unitminer · 04-20-2009, 03:44 AM

But your merchant has to use clickbank :-)
If you have multiple merchants, which products you sell as affiliate, than for sure each merchant will not have CB.

We develop affiliate software Post Affiliate Pro and I know how it works technically. We support also IPN callbacks and API, but case described in this thread is not easy.

In the past we wanted to start project, where affiliate will register multiple affiliate programs and our system will support many types of softwares and will read account details for all of them.
We crashed on fact, that some softwares supported API, some not and we were not able to deliver complete solution. We didn't wanted to limit it e.g. to just clickbank, but all kinds of payment systems, and other tracking softwares....

stevenh512 · 04-20-2009, 04:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by unitminer

But your merchant has to use clickbank :-)
If you have multiple merchants, which products you sell as affiliate, than for sure each merchant will not have CB.

True.. and the "best" solution really depends on the situation. If you're only dealing with Clickbank products, I think the IPN script is the easiest way to manage it. If you're dealing with non-Clickbank products it'll be a lot harder to manage, but depending on the merchants I think the AdTrackz solution might be workable (only takes a few minutes of the merchant's time and it shouldn't be hard to convince them that it benefits them by making life easier for their affiliates).

From the online "manual" for AdTrackz:

Quote:

The owner of the affiliate program only has to install one line of code on the thank you page. It's a special 1x1 invisible image that calls your copy of Adtrackz and credits you with the sale. The owner only has to do this once to allow all Adtrackz users to track sales

Adtrackz - Track Everything (link to the manual page, not an affiliate link)

edit: Also, according to their remote tracking setup page here -
http://adtrackz.com/remotetracking/
There's one more benefit for the merchant. They get a little extra backend income by promoting AdTrackz to their affiliates.

unitminer · 04-20-2009, 05:17 AM

Same what can do Adtrackz can do also Post Affiliate Pro - even you can use custom channels and other features of PAP - it is much more extensive tool for tracking as adtrakz.

Only bad thing is, that you still can't know for sure, if final sale was processed - you track basically just traffic.
Next difficulty is, if commissions was assigned to you or to any other affiliate. Commission can be assigned e.g. to first or last referring affiliate and you can't predict it ! This you can't predict even if you will paste tracking code on thank you page - only way will be to be connected directly to affiliate software, which used merchant .... As I said, we already did research and we stopped with development of general tool for affiliates, because it was impossible to track all correctly.

wordofmouthmagic · 04-20-2009, 04:09 PM

Thanks to both of you. You have identified what I am needing, and some of the hassles I have been having. I would love to be able to all this testing without having to do each one by hand with the owner.

I would also be happy with some other type of offer eg CPA PPC, as long as I could track back the money it made me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by stevenh512

I really think the best solution if you're promoting Clickbank products is to write your own custom IPN script (or have one written for you) to track your sales. This doesn't require any changes on the merchant's end, just a script on your server and one change in your own CB account to track all of your sales.

Just need to check....

Can an IPN script trigger a php or html page eg trigger an AdTrackz code, or does it just send an email?

And then any suggestions for a template for an IPN script that I can modify, or how would I go about creating such a script.

Thanks,
Martin Russell

stevenh512 · 04-20-2009, 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wordofmouthmagic

Can an IPN script trigger a php or html page eg trigger an AdTrackz code, or does it just send an email?

The IPN script would be specific to Clickbank since I don't know of any other affiliate programs that offer any kind of API for informing the affiliate that they made a sale. It works similar to how PayPal IPN works (in other words, it's posted "in the background" and the end user never sees it). Best bet would be to have it either send you an email or log the information to a database, or maybe both.

Quote:

And then any suggestions for a template for an IPN script that I can modify, or how would I go about creating such a script.

I don't know of any templates available for Clickbank IPN scripts, but Clickbank has information on their site about how it works. Shouldn't take too long (or be too expensive) to have a programmer put something together for you. If I wasn't so busy with other things right now I'd be happy to throw together a quick example for you, especially since I have an idea for a project that would use the same technology.

Here's some information from Clickbank that should help you (or your programmer) get started.
Affiliate Program: Tools - ClickBank
2008-01-08 Release Summary - ClickBank

The second link has Java and PHP examples of how to do the IPN validation.. what you do with that information once its validated is up to you, personally I'd track it in a database rather than having the script send me an email every time.

unitminer · 04-21-2009, 03:26 AM

Martin, I think you will not find any really bulletproof solution - we faced something similar in the past.

My experiences: I think solution for you as successful affiliate is, that you will promote just some products, which are top sellers and you will not waste time with products, which you can sell one per month ...

Best is to direct your power to one, maybe up to five affiliate programs and earn from each of selected affiliate program $5000 ... final income could be $25000 per month and you don't need to waste time with many affiliate programs, where you earned hardly payout limit

... I think whatever you will try, you will end up with max 5 affiliate programs :-)

wordofmouthmagic · 04-21-2009, 10:27 PM

First - how do I 'thank' both of you guys for the quality responses.

Second - if anyone has an affiliate program that would allow this sort of testing I would love to hear from you.

The problem with the 5 big products idea is that I have some niches where a smaller product might work much better. And I'd like to be promoting evergreen products rather than just the latest ones. Other than that unitminer you have it pretty much correct.

04-20-2009, 02:15 AM	#1
wordofmouthmagic Active Warrior Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: , , . Posts: 91 Thanks: 14 Thanked 11 Times in 10 Posts	WANTED: Affiliate programs etc that allow outcome testing. Hi, I'm trying to monetize my thankyou pages, but for multivariate testing on that page I need to register when money is earned / a sale is made. If I backend to a product I control then this is easy. I simply put tracking code into the thankyou page for that backend offer. But how can I measure the money I make selling other products eg affiliate ones, in a way that can be automatically fed back into my multivariate testing? Please give me your suggestions for methods, products, or programs. Much appreciated, Martin Russell

04-20-2009, 02:18 AM	#2
unitminer HyperActive Warrior Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Bratislava, Slovakia, European Union Posts: 102 Thanks: 1 Thanked 9 Times in 9 Posts Contact Info	Re: WANTED: Affiliate programs etc that allow outcome testing. I'm not sure if I understand you right, but you want to track sales you made on other websites as affiliate of other merchants ?

04-20-2009, 03:15 AM	#3
stevenh512 HyperActive Warrior Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Landers, CA, USA Posts: 329 Thanks: 30 Thanked 29 Times in 26 Posts Social Networking	Re: WANTED: Affiliate programs etc that allow outcome testing. You could use something like AdTrackz if you can talk the person who controls the affiliate product's thankyou page into adding a tiny piece of code to that page (the piece of code would help not only you, but any of his other affiliates who use AdTrackz). You could also try using Google Analytics, but again that relies on you being able to talk the person who controls the thankyou page into adding a piece of code (and unlike the AdTrackz route, this one would be specific to you). Basically, almost any solution to this problem is going to require the person who controls the thankyou page to modify it for you.. with one exception. If you're promoting Clickbank affiliate programs you could always write a Clickbank "IPN" script and tell CB to post to that script whenever you make a sale (unlike Paypal, Paydotcom, etc. Clickbank's IPN will post to the merchant and the affiliate when a sale is made).
	This signature intentionally left blank.

04-20-2009, 03:19 AM	#4
unitminer HyperActive Warrior Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Bratislava, Slovakia, European Union Posts: 102 Thanks: 1 Thanked 9 Times in 9 Posts Contact Info	Re: WANTED: Affiliate programs etc that allow outcome testing. I don't think, that other person will want to put ANY code on his thank you page. there is couple of side effects: 1. you will be able to track number of sales of this merchant, you can compute average sale value and compute overall sales amount, etc. 2. you can track traffic of this merchant ... simply for other merchants it is too high risk to put such code on their web site if they don't know you.

04-20-2009, 03:26 AM	#5
stevenh512 HyperActive Warrior Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Landers, CA, USA Posts: 329 Thanks: 30 Thanked 29 Times in 26 Posts Social Networking	Re: WANTED: Affiliate programs etc that allow outcome testing. unitminer, I know there are some merchants will will put google analytics code on their thank you pages, but only for certain affiliates. Also, I don't think the AdTrackz solution I mentioned above would suffer from the side effects you mentioned, it allows any affiliate using AdTrackz to track their own sales (and as far as I know, only their own sales) without having to add a specific piece of code for each affiliate. But that being said, I really think the best solution if you're promoting Clickbank products is to write your own custom IPN script (or have one written for you) to track your sales. This doesn't require any changes on the merchant's end, just a script on your server and one change in your own CB account to track all of your sales.
	This signature intentionally left blank.

04-20-2009, 03:44 AM	#6
unitminer HyperActive Warrior Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Bratislava, Slovakia, European Union Posts: 102 Thanks: 1 Thanked 9 Times in 9 Posts Contact Info	Re: WANTED: Affiliate programs etc that allow outcome testing. But your merchant has to use clickbank :-) If you have multiple merchants, which products you sell as affiliate, than for sure each merchant will not have CB. We develop affiliate software Post Affiliate Pro and I know how it works technically. We support also IPN callbacks and API, but case described in this thread is not easy. In the past we wanted to start project, where affiliate will register multiple affiliate programs and our system will support many types of softwares and will read account details for all of them. We crashed on fact, that some softwares supported API, some not and we were not able to deliver complete solution. We didn't wanted to limit it e.g. to just clickbank, but all kinds of payment systems, and other tracking softwares....

04-20-2009, 05:17 AM	#8
unitminer HyperActive Warrior Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Bratislava, Slovakia, European Union Posts: 102 Thanks: 1 Thanked 9 Times in 9 Posts Contact Info	Re: WANTED: Affiliate programs etc that allow outcome testing. Same what can do Adtrackz can do also Post Affiliate Pro - even you can use custom channels and other features of PAP - it is much more extensive tool for tracking as adtrakz. Only bad thing is, that you still can't know for sure, if final sale was processed - you track basically just traffic. Next difficulty is, if commissions was assigned to you or to any other affiliate. Commission can be assigned e.g. to first or last referring affiliate and you can't predict it ! This you can't predict even if you will paste tracking code on thank you page - only way will be to be connected directly to affiliate software, which used merchant .... As I said, we already did research and we stopped with development of general tool for affiliates, because it was impossible to track all correctly.

04-21-2009, 03:26 AM	#11
unitminer HyperActive Warrior Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Bratislava, Slovakia, European Union Posts: 102 Thanks: 1 Thanked 9 Times in 9 Posts Contact Info	Re: WANTED: Affiliate programs etc that allow outcome testing. Martin, I think you will not find any really bulletproof solution - we faced something similar in the past. My experiences: I think solution for you as successful affiliate is, that you will promote just some products, which are top sellers and you will not waste time with products, which you can sell one per month ... Best is to direct your power to one, maybe up to five affiliate programs and earn from each of selected affiliate program $5000 ... final income could be $25000 per month and you don't need to waste time with many affiliate programs, where you earned hardly payout limit ... I think whatever you will try, you will end up with max 5 affiliate programs :-)

04-21-2009, 10:27 PM	#12
wordofmouthmagic Active Warrior Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: , , . Posts: 91 Thanks: 14 Thanked 11 Times in 10 Posts	Re: WANTED: Affiliate programs etc that allow outcome testing. First - how do I 'thank' both of you guys for the quality responses. Second - if anyone has an affiliate program that would allow this sort of testing I would love to hear from you. The problem with the 5 big products idea is that I have some niches where a smaller product might work much better. And I'd like to be promoting evergreen products rather than just the latest ones. Other than that unitminer you have it pretty much correct.