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Dealing With Competitor Who Is A Thief

by IdeasAccepted
30 replies
Anyone have any suggestions on dealing with this situation:

I have a competitor who is a thief...steals everything he can, just short of where I could take actual legal action.



Here are just some examples of what he did/does...
  • I introduce a new product, he introduces the same type of product the next week (to the point where you you would think they were done by the same person if you saw them side by side)
  • Copied my entire forum category names - in order
  • Copied the overall/design and flow of my website including page names and internal anchor links
  • Copied the exact metatags and meta keywords in order on many pages
  • I advertise on a site, there is he is two or three days later advertising on the same site
  • I get a reciprocal link from a site, the next week he gets one from the same site
You get the idea. It's so frustrating. Any help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated!

(Don't worry - it's not anybody here since it's not the IM industry! )

Thanks.
#competitor #dealing #thief
  • Profile picture of the author stevenh512
    Sounds like someone who has taken the idea of "find what works and copy that" a little too far.. lol

    Not sure if there's much you can do about it. If you know his IP address you could block him from viewing your site.. but even that doesn't stop him from using a proxy or looking at a "cached" copy (like in Google's cache or the "wayback machine"), plus most people have dynamic IP addresses so blocking by IP isn't 100% foolproof anyway.

    If he's actually copying your content and just making small changes that could be copyright infringement and a DMCA notice to his web host should be enough to shut him down or at least throw a roadblock in his path.
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    • Profile picture of the author Dan C. Rinnert
      Originally Posted by stevenh512 View Post

      Not sure if there's much you can do about it. If you know his IP address you could block him from viewing your site.. but even that doesn't stop him from using a proxy or looking at a "cached" copy (like in Google's cache or the "wayback machine"), plus most people have dynamic IP addresses so blocking by IP isn't 100% foolproof anyway.
      Don't block; fake.

      If you can find his IP, and it's a static IP, he'll know if you block him. Then he'll use a proxy or another means of accessing your site.

      On the other hand, if he has a static IP, you can display special content just for him. Since he's not being blocked, he wouldn't necessarily have reason to be suspicious. Then, show him stuff that doesn't work or doesn't sell, or might be difficult and time-consuming to put together. Then, if he copies you, he's copying things that are ineffective, or maybe even things that reduce conversions or alienate customers.
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      • Profile picture of the author sylviad
        Originally Posted by Dan C. Rinnert View Post

        ....On the other hand, if he has a static IP, you can display special content just for him. Since he's not being blocked, he wouldn't necessarily have reason to be suspicious. Then, show him stuff that doesn't work or doesn't sell, or might be difficult and time-consuming to put together. Then, if he copies you, he's copying things that are ineffective, or maybe even things that reduce conversions or alienate customers.
        You could take advantage - turn the tables.

        Not sure how you'd do this, but let him get access to something you'd like to do but don't have the time or money to do all the testing. Let him do all the planning and testing, and when you see that it's a viable direction to go, you copy him.

        It's possible this person is new to the industry and was told to copy what the experts are doing. He found your business and just duplicated it, not realizing that it's not an ethical (and possibly legal) thing to do. Perhaps he's not aware of how he might be infringing on copyright laws -if he even knows what copyright is.

        Contact him directly and bring the facts to his attention. At the very least, you might be able to get him to stop copying you in future.

        Sylvia
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        • Profile picture of the author Tom B
          Banned
          That is part of the problem with ebooks. The barrier of entry is very low.

          Personally, I think you need to work on your business making it harder and harder to reproduce.

          Build up your business to the point where it would cost someone a lot of money to copy.

          Software is another thing that I see copied in the IM market. I am doing the same thing I suggest to you. I continue adding value to this one project to the point where it would cost someone a HUGE amount of money to recreate to the point they are a competitor.
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      • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
        Banned
        Originally Posted by Dan C. Rinnert View Post

        Don't block; fake.

        If you can find his IP, and it's a static IP, he'll know if you block him. Then he'll use a proxy or another means of accessing your site.

        On the other hand, if he has a static IP, you can display special content just for him. Since he's not being blocked, he wouldn't necessarily have reason to be suspicious. Then, show him stuff that doesn't work or doesn't sell, or might be difficult and time-consuming to put together. Then, if he copies you, he's copying things that are ineffective, or maybe even things that reduce conversions or alienate customers.
        I love this idea .... brilliant. You could really mess with him with this technique
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        • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
          Be very careful about using words like thief if there's any way the guy can be identified by anyone in your market who might read this. If he hasn't actually broken any laws in the process of copying your stuff, you could be up Legal Creek without a paddle.

          If his products are that close to yours, talk to your lawyer about whther this could be a case of infringement by derivative works.

          There's some good advice in this thread. Another approach would be to see if the guy actually knows anything about the subject. It may be that he's knowledgeable about the subject, but sucks at marketing. If so, the opportunities for collaboration are something to consider.

          If he's a complete lame copycat, offer something he can't copy. Live Q&A calls are a good one. Private forum sections where customers get more direct contact and advice are another, if you have the time to spend that way.

          Real world case studies are tough to copy without being obvious.

          If he regularly posts in his forum, watch what he says. That will tell you if he's a total lamer or just a marketing newbie who needs spanked.

          If he doesn't regularly post in his forum, why don't you do it for him?

          Lots of things you can do. The question is, what is your desired result?


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  • Profile picture of the author Thomas
    Originally Posted by IdeasAccepted View Post

    • I advertise on a site, there is he is two or three days later advertising on the same site
    • I get a reciprocal link from a site, the next week he gets one from the same site
    Whatever about the product and website (impossible to say without seeing both), they haven't done anything illegal with those two.

    Tommy.
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    • Profile picture of the author MichelleB
      What a pain in the asp. Have you tried confronting them about it? Maybe they think you are unaware of what they are doing and a few words and maybe some text about copyright infringement sent to them would make them step off.

      You could also submit your site to tons of directories, even low page rank ones, so they won't know where exactly you are getting your "link juice" from....I read a tip like that at the seobook website.
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  • Profile picture of the author thesuccesscoach
    hum kinda nature of the beast, if they are copying design, if they are copying your copy, etc then i think you can do something, but other than that no sure?

    I'll keep an eye on this thread as it will be interesting to see what happens
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    • Profile picture of the author Jackbgd
      Send him an email or give him a call if you can find his number, tell him to stop copying and to **** off or you'll beat him up and sue him for stealing your stuff.
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  • Profile picture of the author johnfrem
    Originally Posted by IdeasAccepted View Post

    Anyone have any suggestions on dealing with this situation:

    I have a competitor who is a thief...steals everything he can, just short of where I could take actual legal action.



    Here are just some examples of what he did/does...
    • I introduce a new product, he introduces the same type of product the next week (to the point where you you would think they were done by the same person if you saw them side by side)
    • Copied my entire forum category names - in order
    • Copied the overall/design and flow of my website including page names and internal anchor links
    • Copied the exact metatags and meta keywords in order on many pages
    • I advertise on a site, there is he is two or three days later advertising on the same site
    • I get a reciprocal link from a site, the next week he gets one from the same site
    You get the idea. It's so frustrating. Any help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated!

    (Don't worry - it's not anybody here since it's not the IM industry! )

    Thanks.
    I say it is fair competition, Brick and mortar companies do this all the time. eg: Pizza hut came out with pasta, now domino's is coming out with pasta.
    Do something to separate yourself from him that he can't copy.
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  • Profile picture of the author Michele Miller
    That is frustrating! I can see why you'd be annoyed.

    Perhaps you could send him an email outlining what you're thinking about doing next week, i.e. new and expensive advertising and let the idiot go first...

    Announce that you're going to start advertising somewhere you know is crap, don't do it, but let him waste his money.

    Maybe he'd like a picture of your house, your car etc., so he can copy those too?


    Originally Posted by IdeasAccepted View Post

    Anyone have any suggestions on dealing with this situation:

    I have a competitor who is a thief...steals everything he can, just short of where I could take actual legal action.




    Here are just some examples of what he did/does...
    • I introduce a new product, he introduces the same type of product the next week (to the point where you you would think they were done by the same person if you saw them side by side)
    • Copied my entire forum category names - in order
    • Copied the overall/design and flow of my website including page names and internal anchor links
    • Copied the exact metatags and meta keywords in order on many pages
    • I advertise on a site, there is he is two or three days later advertising on the same site
    • I get a reciprocal link from a site, the next week he gets one from the same site
    You get the idea. It's so frustrating. Any help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated!

    (Don't worry - it's not anybody here since it's not the IM industry! )

    Thanks.
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  • Profile picture of the author LMC
    Ideas Accepted,

    I had a similar thing happen to me a few years ago in a certain niche. I pretty much felt stalked, and then I started to think a bit flattered that this guy is copying everything I do.

    I sent him a letter in the mail, proposing a collaboration of ideas since we were in the same niche.

    It came down to it that he wasn't online smart, but understood offline marketing extremely well. He was following everything I did to understand the How To process.

    We ended up collaborating and launching a product together in 2007, we made $82,000 on our launch with an easy 50/50 split. Not amazing numbers, but it was one of my best days back then.

    Don't think bad. Think glad. See how you can make money off of him.

    Good Luck
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  • Profile picture of the author talfighel
    If you are in a situation that you ARE making money from your product, IGNORE that person and what they are doing.

    If you want, you can email them and ask them to stop copying you. If they persist, find out what you can do legally to stop them doing this.

    LMC has some good advice.

    Tal
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  • Profile picture of the author Devon Brown
    LMC offers really great advice. How can you turn this seemingly negative situation into a positive one? Set back and take yourself outside of the box. There's got to be a sunny side to this.

    Or you could just attach "THE ORIGINAL" to everything you create now.
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  • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
    Is he copying and pasting your content as his own or just using your ideas? If he's copying and pasting your text verbatim you have legal recourse.

    Is he located in the same country as you? Is his host located in the same country as you? If not, there's little you can do that wouldn't be expensive to undertake. If he is, you might be able to document his theft and have a lawyer send a cease and desist demand. That doesn't cost all the much and usually scares the hell of out people. Or, you might be able to convince his host to shut site down if you can prove he's stealing from you. Most hosts are pretty good about copyright infringement.

    It's a tough problem, no doubt.
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  • Profile picture of the author Daniel Brock
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    • Profile picture of the author stevenh512
      Originally Posted by dbbrock1 View Post

      I run a hosting company and get these requests every so often...and quite frankly ignore them all.
      If you live in the U.S., ignoring those requests can get you into a lot of trouble if the true owner of the content can prove copyright and decides to take legal action. It's called "contributory infringement" and since the owner of the content can show that they sent you a DMCA notice and you ignored it, I imagine you'd have a hard time defending yourself in court.

      What I'd do if I sent you a DMCA notice in email and you ignored it, is get your postal address and send it to you certified mail. If it was still ignored, I'd take a copy of the notice and that return receipt to my attorney.

      edit: and since you admit that you have a direct financial interest in the in the infringing activity I imagine a good lawyer would argue that it was also "vicarious infringement".
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      • Profile picture of the author GarrieWilson
        Originally Posted by stevenh512 View Post

        If you live in the U.S., ignoring those requests can get you into a lot of trouble if the true owner of the content can prove copyright and decides to take legal action. It's called "contributory infringement" and since the owner of the content can show that they sent you a DMCA notice and you ignored it, I imagine you'd have a hard time defending yourself in court.

        What I'd do if I sent you a DMCA notice in email and you ignored it, is get your postal address and send it to you certified mail. If it was still ignored, I'd take a copy of the notice and that return receipt to my attorney.

        edit: and since you admit that you have a direct financial interest in the in the infringing activity I imagine a good lawyer would argue that it was also "vicarious infringement".
        He also has to have a registered agent w/ the copyright office to avoid being being sued.
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  • Profile picture of the author TelegramSam
    Dear OP,

    Could you release any of your products under a different domain name or business name etc.

    In other words, how is he finding out about your new releases. Is he on your list or something?

    Why don't you do what he does and compete against yourself, by replicating your own success.
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  • Profile picture of the author gxd5
    Originally Posted by IdeasAccepted View Post

    Anyone have any suggestions on dealing with this situation:

    I have a competitor who is a thief...steals everything he can, just short of where I could take actual legal action.



    Here are just some examples of what he did/does...
    • I introduce a new product, he introduces the same type of product the next week (to the point where you you would think they were done by the same person if you saw them side by side)
    • Copied my entire forum category names - in order
    • Copied the overall/design and flow of my website including page names and internal anchor links
    • Copied the exact metatags and meta keywords in order on many pages
    • I advertise on a site, there is he is two or three days later advertising on the same site
    • I get a reciprocal link from a site, the next week he gets one from the same site
    You get the idea. It's so frustrating. Any help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated!

    (Don't worry - it's not anybody here since it's not the IM industry! )

    Thanks.

    Hit that fool with a Javascript Hand Grenade! Hahahah

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  • Profile picture of the author Andrew W Wong
    If you are selling your own product, I would recommend repackaging it into something different...videos, physical products, etc. Anything to differentiate yourself from your competition. Also, try offering different bonuses to increase the value of your offer.

    Andrew
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  • Profile picture of the author MarkWrites
    Originally Posted by IdeasAccepted View Post

    • I introduce a new product, he introduces the same type of product the next week (to the point where you you would think they were done by the same person if you saw them side by side)
    This can be frustrating, but has gone on for years in business. Think of how many cola companies are out there, there was a company that made the product first. McDonald's came out with Chicken McNuggets first, but every fast food restaurant now sells their version of them. In fact, the entire generic market for food and medications are built on this strategy.

    • Copied my entire forum category names - in order
    • Copied the overall/design and flow of my website including page names and internal anchor links
    If they are copying actual copy word for word and design too, there may be something along the lines of contacting their ISP you could do, though I don't know how much good it will do.

    • Copied the exact metatags and meta keywords in order on many pages
    I don't think there is anything you can do about that part.

    • I advertise on a site, there is he is two or three days later advertising on the same site
    • I get a reciprocal link from a site, the next week he gets one from the same site
    The problem you are encountering here is that this is a well established web development tip. The theory that you can find in a great deal of ebooks, tip sheets, and websites says that you should see where your competition is getting links from and then do the same thing yourself.

    You get the idea. It's so frustrating. Any help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated!
    The first thing I would do is make sure that everything you offer is first class and the highest quality. Then as suggested before, try and come up with a few things you can offer that they cannot copy, this might even be an opportunity to offer something that is an added bonus or side product that you break even on because you know that they couldn't or wouldn't want to match the price. The last thing I would do is start plastering phrases like "the original" and "don't be fooled by imitators" on selected portions of your site or your copy, this attempts to turn their copying you into an asset because why wouldn't they want to copy you? You're the original.

    Just a few thoughts.
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  • Profile picture of the author CmdrStidd
    Originally Posted by IdeasAccepted View Post

    • Copied my entire forum category names - in order
    • Copied the overall/design and flow of my website including page names and internal anchor links
    You get the idea. It's so frustrating. Any help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated!

    (Don't worry - it's not anybody here since it's not the IM industry! )

    Thanks.
    Do you have at the bottom of these two items any kind of copyright statement like Copyright 2009 John Q Public Enterprises LLC or some such? If you do then he is in violation of copyright laws and those have been transferred to either the FBI for US claims or Interpol for international claims and it is something that both law enforcement agencies take very seriously as a part of the pirating of videos and music issues. Now they are clamping down on all forms big time.
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  • Profile picture of the author lansing
    Not too many people realize it, but that back in the 1950's and 60's when McDonald's was just getting started in the US, they made most of their money from real estate, not food sales. They bought the land for a restaurant and then leased it back to their franchisee. Ray Kroch was so good at scouting locations for new restaurants that after while, when a new McDonald's went up, invariably a new Burger King got built within a block or two of the McDonald's. Burger King simply skipped the all the site location work and just followed Ray Kroch around the country. So this type of stuff is not new just because the real estate is online.

    BTW, it seems to have worked out OK (so far) for both McDonald's and Burger King. Take some solace in being the recognized market leader
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  • Profile picture of the author IdeasAccepted
    Just want to thank everyone for their ideas and comments throughout this thread. I learned some things and strategies I hadn't considered.
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  • Profile picture of the author Floyd Fisher
    Originally Posted by IdeasAccepted View Post

    Anyone have any suggestions on dealing with this situation:

    I have a competitor who is a thief...steals everything he can, just short of where I could take actual legal action.




    Here are just some examples of what he did/does...
    • I introduce a new product, he introduces the same type of product the next week (to the point where you you would think they were done by the same person if you saw them side by side)
    • Copied my entire forum category names - in order
    • Copied the overall/design and flow of my website including page names and internal anchor links
    • Copied the exact metatags and meta keywords in order on many pages
    • I advertise on a site, there is he is two or three days later advertising on the same site
    • I get a reciprocal link from a site, the next week he gets one from the same site
    You get the idea. It's so frustrating. Any help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated!

    (Don't worry - it's not anybody here since it's not the IM industry! )

    Thanks.
    If the products are side by side the same, there is your complaint in a nutshell.

    Lionel did the exact same thing to MTH, and lost big time in a lawsuit.
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  • Profile picture of the author JonStein
    Great advice for the most part, however, If he is copying your methods, you have no recourse, as you can not copyright a method, fact, recipe or procedure.

    From what you stated, he has done nothing illegal, however, if he is copying your photos, screenshots or articles, you do have a legal recourse under the DMCA, which I have used effectively against several perpetrators.


    I would suspect this individual knows who you are and he is merely following you to make money, after all is that not a wise thing to do?

    The reason most of us are on here and other forums are to learn new tricks, tips and techniques.


    So be careful, cause if I see you make money, I just may copy you! After all, who owns the internet, anyway? You have to face the reality that it's a free-for-all and nobody owns the right to making money online.
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  • Profile picture of the author SteelDanno
    If you feel you have a strong case and can afford to take action: then do.

    If not ... forget about it (get over it :-) and don't waste an more time/energy worrying about it.

    Cheers.
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  • Profile picture of the author Acmeous
    I think there are lots of different views to this. Even we can't even say who is the original poster here .

    Actually if he/she is not copying your product, content or design upto 90%, then also you can have any legal action. Cause they will be treated as "Inspired by You" not as "Copied from You". Actually we also manytimes get many ideas from many other products. Obviously targeting you in this way is a bad thing as far as ethics is concerned.

    But, apart from other ideas, what I can suggest you is you can study your competitor and create such a product which goes out of his/her capability to copy.
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