OK to ask someone to be a paid member to be an Associate?

13 replies
Is it OK to ask someone to be a paid member to be an Associate, rather than a free associate program for anyone to join.

I am helping someone get ready to launch a new lead system. I see that he wants a person to be a paid member in order for them to become an associate, so that they are familiar with the lead system.

Is there any problem with that, that you know of? Legally, or someone has tried it and found out some problems?

Thanks.

Jeannie
#associate #member #paid
  • Profile picture of the author Stuart Walker
    It might just be me (I have had a few drinks) but I've no idea what you're on about?
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    • Profile picture of the author Jeannie Crabtree
      Ok, I added some clarification. Hope that is clear.

      Originally Posted by RockingLastsForever View Post

      It might just be me (I have had a few drinks) but I've no idea what you're on about?
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    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
      Jeannie -

      I've seen several product owners who only open their affiliate program to those who have purchased the product or joined a membership. I think it makes sense as you have a better chance of building a group of affiliate who believe in the product and possibly understand it.

      Today there are thousands of "affiliates" who only sign up for every free affiliate program they can find in the hope of generating commission. That type of affiliate is far more likely to misrepresent a product or spam others with promotions. Not saying they all do - but much more likely you'll have some of them if they haven't bought or participated in the product/service they are trying to promote.
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  • Profile picture of the author Tim Franklin
    This is not legal advice.

    The only real answer here is to consult with an attorney legally licensed in the jurisdiction of operation. Having said that, there is a level of law that would tend to support the notion that money should not be involved in a transaction where an affiliate would have to purchase a product or service in order to promote that product or service.

    Is there a law? Perhaps, but again it depends on the jurisdiction and the venue.

    If you look at most of the larger affiliate programs out there none of them charge a fee to be an affiliate. That might be an indication that would carry some weight but again there is no substitute for a good Attorney.
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    • Profile picture of the author Jeannie Crabtree
      Thanks Tim.

      No I was not really looking for legal advice. Just asking a few questions about others experiences, so that I can then advise him if he needs to take further steps, such as consult with an attorney (which is always good).

      I have seen a number of programs such as Kay mentioned that do this. On the other hand, there is something in the back of my mind, I can't quite recall... from my MLM days. That made me question whether "money should not be involved".

      Jeannie

      Originally Posted by Tim Franklin View Post

      This is not legal advice.

      The only real answer here is to consult with an attorney legally licensed in the jurisdiction of operation. Having said that, there is a level of law that would tend to support the notion that money should not be involved in a transaction where an affiliate would have to purchase a product or service in order to promote that product or service.

      Is there a law? Perhaps, but again it depends on the jurisdiction and the venue.

      If you look at most of the larger affiliate programs out there none of them charge a fee to be an affiliate. That might be an indication that would carry some weight but again there is no substitute for a good Attorney.
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  • Profile picture of the author SunilTanna
    The danger is that you fall into pyramid scheme territory.

    Person 1 is not really interested in the product, but he buys to get the income opportunity. He then sells to other people just like him, other income seekers.

    These income seekers buy the product, but have no real interest in it, buying it is just their entrance fee into the scheme, and so on.

    Eventually, most or all the sales are simply recruitment commission, as few, perhaps none, of the buyers are interested in the product. In other word, are just cover for recruitment commissions.

    Sooner or later such schemes inevitably collapse, but if the authorities find you first, dealing with angry paid-up affiliates might be the least of your worries.

    Thus can happen whether you intended it to, or not. Paying commissions on recruiting affiliates/distributors is often considered a red flag for this reason. And by making a product purchase a requirement for joining the affiliate program, you are making it really hard to distinguish between recruitment of distributors/affiliates, and genuine retail sales
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    • Profile picture of the author Jeannie Crabtree
      Sunil, thanks for that explanation. I know a lot of people do this. But I could not bring to mind why he should not. Now I have something I can go to him with. Thanks.
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    • Profile picture of the author wordpressmania
      I did not think that way ever.

      Originally Posted by SunilTanna View Post

      The danger is that you fall into pyramid scheme territory.

      Person 1 is not really interested in the product, but he buys to get the income opportunity. He then sells to other people just like him, other income seekers.

      These income seekers buy the product, but have no real interest in it, buying it is just their entrance fee into the scheme, and so on.

      Eventually, most or all the sales are simply recruitment commission, as few, perhaps none, of the buyers are interested in the product. In other word, are just cover for recruitment commissions.

      Sooner or later such schemes inevitably collapse, but if the authorities find you first, dealing with angry paid-up affiliates might be the least of your worries.

      Thus can happen whether you intended it to, or not. Paying commissions on recruiting affiliates/distributors is often considered a red flag for this reason. And by making a product purchase a requirement for joining the affiliate program, you are making it really hard to distinguish between recruitment of distributors/affiliates, and genuine retail sales
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  • Profile picture of the author ronrule
    It's only a pyramid if it's multi-level ... if you're charging a monthly fee to be a member of your program, as long as it's product driven (the fee is to make sure you're only dealing with serious reps who have some skin in the game), and you aren't building "downlines" - just a single level for referrals - you'll be fine.

    However, I do think that this structure will attract the MLM crowd and might ultimately become nothing but people paying the fee in the hopes of getting other people to sign up and pay the fee. You'll probably get more of those with this structure than you will with a traditional affiliate model, and the down side of that is that it cheapens the image of your product. I would never buy a product like Herbalife, even if it was great, simply because their marketing tactics are so sneaky I wouldn't trust the company.
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    • Profile picture of the author Jeannie Crabtree
      Ron, It is product driven. They have a membership and They have a suite of tools they can choose from to contact a person when they get to a certain point on the page.

      The focus is on presenting to companies and business owners, used by SEO companies, etc. So I don't think it will be taken over by the MLM crowd.



      Originally Posted by ronrule View Post

      It's only a pyramid if it's multi-level ... if you're charging a monthly fee to be a member of your program, as long as it's product driven (the fee is to make sure you're only dealing with serious reps who have some skin in the game), and you aren't building "downlines" - just a single level for referrals - you'll be fine.

      However, I do think that this structure will attract the MLM crowd and might ultimately become nothing but people paying the fee in the hopes of getting other people to sign up and pay the fee. You'll probably get more of those with this structure than you will with a traditional affiliate model, and the down side of that is that it cheapens the image of your product. I would never buy a product like Herbalife, even if it was great, simply because their marketing tactics are so sneaky I wouldn't trust the company.
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    • Profile picture of the author SunilTanna
      Originally Posted by ronrule View Post

      It's only a pyramid if it's multi-level ... if you're charging a monthly fee to be a member of your program, as long as it's product driven (the fee is to make sure you're only dealing with serious reps who have some skin in the game), and you aren't building "downlines" - just a single level for referrals - you'll be fine.
      ny.
      Actually no. The definition of a pyramid/ponzi is not based on the commission structure or whether there happens to be a product.

      The pyramid/ponzi issue is based on where the money to pay commissions comes from.

      If the money comes from other people paying to participate in the business opportunity, you're in trouble.

      If the money comes from retail customers, that is people who aren't participants in the business opportunity, then you're okay, all other things being equal.

      What I would suggest you need to be thinking of is to have some way to differentiate between retail customers and the bizop members. Plus some way to ensure that the vast majority of your sales are to retail customers.
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  • Profile picture of the author ronrule
    A Ponzi is an investment scheme, where earnings within a fund are based on the contributions of other investors and not the investments made. Named after Charles Ponzi, who was the first person to pull one off in a big way. This is like what Bernie Madoff was doing.

    Although people often use the phrase to incorrectly describe MLM's, it's not the same thing as a product-driven operation that charges a membership or franchise fee. Many businesses operate this way - in fact, any business that has both a monthly fee and an affiliate program IS operating this way. If I am paying a monthly fee for the rights to sell a product, and I also join their affiliate program and get paid to refer people, that doesn't magically make the business offering the product a scam.
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    • Profile picture of the author SunilTanna
      Originally Posted by ronrule View Post

      A Ponzi is an investment scheme, where earnings within a fund are based on the contributions of other investors and not the investments made. Named after Charles Ponzi, who was the first person to pull one off in a big way. This is like what Bernie Madoff was doing.

      Although people often use the phrase to incorrectly describe MLM's, it's not the same thing as a product-driven operation that charges a membership or franchise fee. Many businesses operate this way - in fact, any business that has both a monthly fee and an affiliate program IS operating this way. If I am paying a monthly fee for the rights to sell a product, and I also join their affiliate program and get paid to refer people, that doesn't magically make the business offering the product a scam.
      I agre with everything you said, and I don't think I said anything that contradicts it.

      What makes something into a pyramid, is if all or most if the money comes from people paying in order to get paid to refer people.

      Or to put it another way, people who pay in order to get paid to refer people are distributors. People who pay for the product itself, and not participating in the bizop, are retail customers. If there are all or mostly distributors, but retail customers are rare or non-existent, that's pyramid territory.

      Law Offices of Nehra and Waak - Legal ABCs of MLM

      http://www.mlmatty.com/2012/06/is-yo...rtunity-legal/


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