When Is It Acceptable NOT to Pay the Ghostwriter?

George Chernikov · 04-23-2009, 04:16 AM

Two and a half weeks ago, I retained the services of a ghostwriter for a project that was due on April 20.

The deadline came and went, and I didn't hear a word from the ghostwriter. On April 21, I sent a follow-up e-mail enquiring as to the status of the project, and received no response.

On April 22, I sent another e-mail, asking the writer to confirm that they're no longer interested in completing this assignment so I can transfer it to another writer in my team - again, to no response.

It's now April 23, and I have an unfinished project on my hands, plus a site that's been assembled and just missing the product to go with it. I am tempted to assign it to a different writer or possibly even write it myself - however, that would mean not paying my current ghostwriter if they should choose to complete the project several days later.

Under the circumstances, is it acceptable to make this decision? I did warn the writer several weeks in advance that deadlines are exceptionally important and they did agree to the stated delivery time. Now all I'm getting is dead silence from them.

Shannon Tani · 04-23-2009, 04:36 AM

I would say that in this situation, it's acceptable to not pay the writer. After all, they haven't produced any work.

However, I would also email them one more time to let them know that you are going to go to someone else.

Love,
Shannon

dsmpublishing · 04-23-2009, 04:45 AM

I totally agree with Shannon,

They havent provided you with your order and you have emailed me several times asking for it so i would contact them one more time to let them know and find someone else to do it for you.

George Chernikov · 04-23-2009, 04:49 AM

Thanks a lot - that's what I've done. I sent the GW an email saying that, if I do not hear from them within 24 hours, I will assign the project to someone else.

I also made it very clear that, if this were to happen, I would not be able to remunerate them for any work they may have done so far, since the project would be written from scratch by someone else.

David Raybould · 04-23-2009, 04:54 AM

Hey George,

That's exactly the path I'd take too.

I've been in your exact situation before,
and it's very frustrating.

The really annoying thing was that the
writer later complained to me because
I filed a paypal dispute - even though
she missed the deadline by a month
and hadn't written a single word!

Anyway, good luck, hope you get it
smoothed out one way or another.

-David Raybould

Jason Pereira · 04-23-2009, 05:16 AM

It's your money, as long as you agreed on the terms (deadline etc) before you hired them it's fair enough not to pay them.

It's also acceptable not to pay a ghostwriter when they turn in rubbish.

Sonny1977 · 04-23-2009, 05:20 AM

I wouldn't pay.

-Sonny

AndyBlackSEO · 04-23-2009, 07:38 AM

I agree. I wouldn't pay. They knew the deadlines and it has passed that date with no response. Timewasters, unless there is a valid reason for it, although whatever the reason is you are still right to use someone else and not pay this first ghostwriter.

edhan · 04-23-2009, 07:43 AM

I do agree with others that you can opt not to pay as the deadline is over. This is similar to some projects I had in rent a coder when the persons can't complete the task. They too accept cancellation as they did not meet the deadline though I had extended.

Just remember to give a final email to them stating that you are terminating your contract and hiring another to complete the task or you are doing it yourself. Also remember to Cc a copy to yourself.

imventures · 04-23-2009, 07:53 AM

You should send a termination email or letter to terminate their services for non performance and hire another ghostwriter. Most professional free lancers will accept that it is their fault for missing the deadline.

However, you have to be prepared in the event that the ghostwriter may turn hostile, and maybe pay them for any work they may have done so far. It would probably be a small price to pay rather than having them besmirch your reputation etc. It may not seem fair, but that's business.

Kim Davis · 04-23-2009, 07:58 AM

You have been overly fair. I would not have given another 24 hr notice. I would have sent an email stating that you are canceling your request as of now and given it to someone else already.

MarkWrites · 04-23-2009, 09:53 AM

You are more than right not to pay, but I would make sure to take the final step of sending an email stating that the previously agreed on writing assignment has been cancelled due to lack of communication and their not producing any material. You can then go on and assign it to another content creator and you hopefully won't hear back from the first one something like "how come you didn't let me know I should stop working on your project?"

Good luck with your project.

George Chernikov · 04-23-2009, 10:26 AM

Alright folks, thanks a lot - I've given the writer a 24-hour notification and we'll see if they come through.

J Elizabeth Dize · 04-23-2009, 10:40 AM

Yep, I agree. Just tell the writer you're canceling the project and you should be under no further obligation. Good luck!

RenFromPenn · 04-23-2009, 11:57 AM

I don't know, I agree that if the ghostwriter has missed the deadline, then you shouldn't be required to pay. I would, however, have given them a little more time. You have no idea what is going on in their life. Perhaps something terrible has happened and dealing with your project is the last thing on their mind.

I think that I would have given them about a week to get back to me. If I didn't hear a peep, then I wouldn't pay.

Spinethetic · 04-23-2009, 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AndyBlackSEO

I agree. I wouldn't pay. They knew the deadlines and it has passed that date with no response. Timewasters, unless there is a valid reason for it, although whatever the reason is you are still right to use someone else and not pay this first ghostwriter.

I second that. If you have a pre-arrnged aggreement with them and they don't fulfill their obligations, you have no reason to hold yours. The contract is officially nulled if it is breached and if and when they do send you your copy, if after the project deadline it is up to your discretion to pay them.

But even if they broke the agreement and sent you the copy some time after the deadline and you refused to pay them but yet you used their copy or modified version of their copy, you could possably run into some legal actions.

elle56 · 04-23-2009, 01:01 PM

Lesson learned here is that we have to be explicit in our terms when hiring someone to do the work for us. If they are unable to meet the deadline, this and that would apply. Failure to comply with the rules would terminate the contract. I think you've been too kind with the GW.

Mike Hill · 04-23-2009, 01:40 PM

I would take the dead silence as being your answer and move the project to another writer.

I highly recommend you try Jenn Dize she is amazingly good at what she does and she meets deadlines...

I would however, send your current writer a last email to state the contract has been void and you would like your deposit back (if you gave one)...

Mike Hill

WebScript · 04-23-2009, 01:46 PM

George,

I think you are on the right track with how you are approaching this.

The project was due 3 days ago (April 20), and you sent a few emails over those 4 days with no response. And now, you have given another day ... I think that is more than fair.

RenFromPenn suggested you give the GW more time, which you could if you want, but it is not likely a personal situation would prevent or excuse someone from replying with a quick email like:

Sorry I am late with your project, I have been dealing with some unforeseen circumstances. I am xx% completed with the project and I expect to complete it nn days. If that is not acceptable to you, I can send you what I have completed so far for $zzz. Please let me know your thoughts on how you think we should proceed.

But without any response, you could wait that extra week and still no response, and then loose that weeks time in getting someone else to do it.

The only thing you haven't mentioned is whether you have paid them for the work already. Not that that makes a difference of if you are right or not, but if you have already paid, how you approach this will have an effect on your ability to recover what you have paid.

If you have paid already, even a partial payment, you could contact PayPal to try to find their phone number and than call them, if you wanted to go that far.

Of course, you may never know, but the GW may be 90% completed and you may be a day away from completion ... or not.

Kevin

Dennis Wagoner · 04-23-2009, 01:50 PM

Missing a deadline without notification, particularly after you'd made it clear upfront, would negate the deal, IMO.

I'd also be wary of extending any more time. This is based on the consideration that you may waste more time waiting for something which may never actually materialize, and you may get a half arsed product if it does.

I'm a writer, and loathe this type behavior.

George Chernikov · 04-23-2009, 02:48 PM

I haven't paid the writer in advance, so thankfully I'm not losing money over here.

Although, this is the second time it happened - the first time the same writer had to bail out because of deaths in the family. However, they actually took time to contact me and explain the situation, which I greatly appreciated.

With that said, a missed deadline is a missed deadline - and it's already cost me money in sales that didn't materialize because of this.

04-23-2009, 04:16 AM	#1
George Chernikov Gordon Gekko, Jr. Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Geneva, Switzerland Posts: 827 Thanks: 80 Thanked 49 Times in 24 Posts Social Networking Contact Info	When Is It Acceptable NOT to Pay the Ghostwriter? Two and a half weeks ago, I retained the services of a ghostwriter for a project that was due on April 20. The deadline came and went, and I didn't hear a word from the ghostwriter. On April 21, I sent a follow-up e-mail enquiring as to the status of the project, and received no response. On April 22, I sent another e-mail, asking the writer to confirm that they're no longer interested in completing this assignment so I can transfer it to another writer in my team - again, to no response. It's now April 23, and I have an unfinished project on my hands, plus a site that's been assembled and just missing the product to go with it. I am tempted to assign it to a different writer or possibly even write it myself - however, that would mean not paying my current ghostwriter if they should choose to complete the project several days later. Under the circumstances, is it acceptable to make this decision? I did warn the writer several weeks in advance that deadlines are exceptionally important and they did agree to the stated delivery time. Now all I'm getting is dead silence from them.
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04-23-2009, 04:36 AM	#2
Shannon Tani Space Master War Room Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Honolulu, HI, USA. Posts: 817 Thanks: 61 Thanked 45 Times in 40 Posts	Re: When Is It Acceptable NOT to Pay the Ghostwriter? I would say that in this situation, it's acceptable to not pay the writer. After all, they haven't produced any work. However, I would also email them one more time to let them know that you are going to go to someone else. Love, Shannon
	Business Ghostwriting

04-23-2009, 04:45 AM	#3
dsmpublishing Banned War Room Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Portugal Posts: 1,738 Blog Entries: 209 Thanks: 104 Thanked 228 Times in 161 Posts Social Networking	Re: When Is It Acceptable NOT to Pay the Ghostwriter? I totally agree with Shannon, They havent provided you with your order and you have emailed me several times asking for it so i would contact them one more time to let them know and find someone else to do it for you.

04-23-2009, 04:49 AM	#4
George Chernikov Gordon Gekko, Jr. Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Geneva, Switzerland Posts: 827 Thanks: 80 Thanked 49 Times in 24 Posts Social Networking Contact Info	Re: When Is It Acceptable NOT to Pay the Ghostwriter? Thanks a lot - that's what I've done. I sent the GW an email saying that, if I do not hear from them within 24 hours, I will assign the project to someone else. I also made it very clear that, if this were to happen, I would not be able to remunerate them for any work they may have done so far, since the project would be written from scratch by someone else.
	!===> Start thinking better with Cognissimo <===!

04-23-2009, 04:54 AM	#5
David Raybould Top Gun Copywriter War Room Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Old London Town, United Kingdom. Posts: 1,221 Thanks: 155 Thanked 600 Times in 145 Posts Social Networking	Re: When Is It Acceptable NOT to Pay the Ghostwriter? Hey George, That's exactly the path I'd take too. I've been in your exact situation before, and it's very frustrating. The really annoying thing was that the writer later complained to me because I filed a paypal dispute - even though she missed the deadline by a month and hadn't written a single word! Anyway, good luck, hope you get it smoothed out one way or another. -David Raybould
	Millionaire-Creating Copywriter...http://www.DavidRaybould.com Site Not Converting? Want More Money? PM me or Email Me Here. I can help

04-23-2009, 05:16 AM	#6
Jason Pereira TheUniversityKid.com War Room Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Bangalore Posts: 380 Thanks: 32 Thanked 57 Times in 33 Posts Social Networking Contact Info	Re: When Is It Acceptable NOT to Pay the Ghostwriter? It's your money, as long as you agreed on the terms (deadline etc) before you hired them it's fair enough not to pay them. It's also acceptable not to pay a ghostwriter when they turn in rubbish.
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04-23-2009, 05:20 AM	#7
Sonny1977 Active Warrior War Room Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Disneyland Posts: 62 Thanks: 2 Thanked 7 Times in 5 Posts	Re: When Is It Acceptable NOT to Pay the Ghostwriter? I wouldn't pay. -Sonny

04-23-2009, 07:38 AM	#8
AndyBlackSEO article-writer-pro.com War Room Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: , , United Kingdom. Posts: 1,330 Thanks: 23 Thanked 124 Times in 106 Posts	Re: When Is It Acceptable NOT to Pay the Ghostwriter? I agree. I wouldn't pay. They knew the deadlines and it has passed that date with no response. Timewasters, unless there is a valid reason for it, although whatever the reason is you are still right to use someone else and not pay this first ghostwriter.
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04-23-2009, 07:43 AM	#9
edhan Karma & Merits In Life War Room Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Tiny island called Singapore Posts: 412 Blog Entries: 4 Thanks: 2 Thanked 33 Times in 32 Posts Social Networking	Re: When Is It Acceptable NOT to Pay the Ghostwriter? I do agree with others that you can opt not to pay as the deadline is over. This is similar to some projects I had in rent a coder when the persons can't complete the task. They too accept cancellation as they did not meet the deadline though I had extended. Just remember to give a final email to them stating that you are terminating your contract and hiring another to complete the task or you are doing it yourself. Also remember to Cc a copy to yourself.
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04-23-2009, 07:53 AM	#10
imventures Active Warrior War Room Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 39 Thanks: 2 Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts	Re: When Is It Acceptable NOT to Pay the Ghostwriter? You should send a termination email or letter to terminate their services for non performance and hire another ghostwriter. Most professional free lancers will accept that it is their fault for missing the deadline. However, you have to be prepared in the event that the ghostwriter may turn hostile, and maybe pay them for any work they may have done so far. It would probably be a small price to pay rather than having them besmirch your reputation etc. It may not seem fair, but that's business.

04-23-2009, 07:58 AM	#11
Kim Davis Ghostwriter War Room Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Ontario Posts: 393 Thanks: 26 Thanked 80 Times in 68 Posts Contact Info	Re: When Is It Acceptable NOT to Pay the Ghostwriter? You have been overly fair. I would not have given another 24 hr notice. I would have sent an email stating that you are canceling your request as of now and given it to someone else already.

04-23-2009, 09:53 AM	#12
MarkWrites HyperActive Warrior War Room Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Washington State Posts: 275 Thanks: 139 Thanked 48 Times in 35 Posts Social Networking	Re: When Is It Acceptable NOT to Pay the Ghostwriter? You are more than right not to pay, but I would make sure to take the final step of sending an email stating that the previously agreed on writing assignment has been cancelled due to lack of communication and their not producing any material. You can then go on and assign it to another content creator and you hopefully won't hear back from the first one something like "how come you didn't let me know I should stop working on your project?" Good luck with your project.

04-23-2009, 10:26 AM	#13
George Chernikov Gordon Gekko, Jr. Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Geneva, Switzerland Posts: 827 Thanks: 80 Thanked 49 Times in 24 Posts Social Networking Contact Info	Re: When Is It Acceptable NOT to Pay the Ghostwriter? Alright folks, thanks a lot - I've given the writer a 24-hour notification and we'll see if they come through.
	!===> Start thinking better with Cognissimo <===!

04-23-2009, 10:40 AM	#14
J Elizabeth Dize That Girl War Room Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: , , . Posts: 1,813 Blog Entries: 4 Thanks: 426 Thanked 285 Times in 152 Posts Social Networking Contact Info	Re: When Is It Acceptable NOT to Pay the Ghostwriter? Yep, I agree. Just tell the writer you're canceling the project and you should be under no further obligation. Good luck!

04-23-2009, 11:57 AM	#15
RenFromPenn HyperActive Warrior War Room Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: An undisclosed location Posts: 201 Thanks: 2 Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts	Re: When Is It Acceptable NOT to Pay the Ghostwriter? I don't know, I agree that if the ghostwriter has missed the deadline, then you shouldn't be required to pay. I would, however, have given them a little more time. You have no idea what is going on in their life. Perhaps something terrible has happened and dealing with your project is the last thing on their mind. I think that I would have given them about a week to get back to me. If I didn't hear a peep, then I wouldn't pay.
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04-23-2009, 01:01 PM	#17
elle56 Active Warrior Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 89 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Re: When Is It Acceptable NOT to Pay the Ghostwriter? Lesson learned here is that we have to be explicit in our terms when hiring someone to do the work for us. If they are unable to meet the deadline, this and that would apply. Failure to comply with the rules would terminate the contract. I think you've been too kind with the GW.

04-23-2009, 01:40 PM	#18
Mike Hill List Building Freedom War Room Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 2,611 Blog Entries: 3 Thanks: 249 Thanked 668 Times in 330 Posts Social Networking	Re: When Is It Acceptable NOT to Pay the Ghostwriter? I would take the dead silence as being your answer and move the project to another writer. I highly recommend you try Jenn Dize she is amazingly good at what she does and she meets deadlines... I would however, send your current writer a last email to state the contract has been void and you would like your deposit back (if you gave one)... Mike Hill
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04-23-2009, 01:46 PM	#19
WebScript Active Warrior War Room Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Villa Park, Illinois, USA. Posts: 68 Thanks: 28 Thanked 8 Times in 8 Posts	Re: When Is It Acceptable NOT to Pay the Ghostwriter? George, I think you are on the right track with how you are approaching this. The project was due 3 days ago (April 20), and you sent a few emails over those 4 days with no response. And now, you have given another day ... I think that is more than fair. RenFromPenn suggested you give the GW more time, which you could if you want, but it is not likely a personal situation would prevent or excuse someone from replying with a quick email like: Sorry I am late with your project, I have been dealing with some unforeseen circumstances. I am xx% completed with the project and I expect to complete it nn days. If that is not acceptable to you, I can send you what I have completed so far for $zzz. Please let me know your thoughts on how you think we should proceed. But without any response, you could wait that extra week and still no response, and then loose that weeks time in getting someone else to do it. The only thing you haven't mentioned is whether you have paid them for the work already. Not that that makes a difference of if you are right or not, but if you have already paid, how you approach this will have an effect on your ability to recover what you have paid. If you have paid already, even a partial payment, you could contact PayPal to try to find their phone number and than call them, if you wanted to go that far. Of course, you may never know, but the GW may be 90% completed and you may be a day away from completion ... or not. Kevin

04-23-2009, 01:50 PM	#20
Dennis Wagoner Warrior War Room Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: USA Posts: 568 Thanks: 30 Thanked 24 Times in 16 Posts Social Networking Contact Info	Re: When Is It Acceptable NOT to Pay the Ghostwriter? Missing a deadline without notification, particularly after you'd made it clear upfront, would negate the deal, IMO. I'd also be wary of extending any more time. This is based on the consideration that you may waste more time waiting for something which may never actually materialize, and you may get a half arsed product if it does. I'm a writer, and loathe this type behavior.

04-23-2009, 02:48 PM	#21
George Chernikov Gordon Gekko, Jr. Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Geneva, Switzerland Posts: 827 Thanks: 80 Thanked 49 Times in 24 Posts Social Networking Contact Info	Re: When Is It Acceptable NOT to Pay the Ghostwriter? I haven't paid the writer in advance, so thankfully I'm not losing money over here. Although, this is the second time it happened - the first time the same writer had to bail out because of deaths in the family. However, they actually took time to contact me and explain the situation, which I greatly appreciated. With that said, a missed deadline is a missed deadline - and it's already cost me money in sales that didn't materialize because of this.
	!===> Start thinking better with Cognissimo <===!