What's Your Problem?? Don't Make Me Tell You This...

59 replies
I wanted to write this little blurb based on the same questions I see raised time and time again where someone is trying to become an "Internet Marketer," or has been "Internet Marketing" for some time online without success.

So let me start with this,

The biggest problem I see is that many people believe that "Internet Marketing" is an actual business. While in my opinion, It is not.

Now before anyone gets offended because they did receive a Google adsense check, or received affiliate payments, (giving the illusion of a real business), I am very well aware that one can earn some decent income online by pursuing different opportunities, but that does not mean they are running a real sustainable business.

You see, I personally define Internet Marketing as "using the Internet" to market an already existing "real business or product." Basically looking at the Internet as a communication tool (such as a phone), rather than as an overall business opportunity.

I know some folks may not understand this concept, or want to believe this because they have been exposed to some big players over the years who managed to successfully use the internet to market their very real businesses and products to the masses, thereby earning millions.

This "Millionaire Internet Marketer" concept ofcourse became very exciting, and thousands of folks figured that they wanted to do that too, (without yet having a business or product to offer.)

So here we are today, and I still see many people saying things such as:

"I want to become an Internet Marketer... now what should I do? What should I sell? Should I create a product? Should I become an affiliate?"

These questions are backwards in my opinion, and therein lies the biggest mistake,
as these people will end up spinning allot of wheels over the next few years,
until someone who runs a real business online offers some free and simple advice.

Here's mine:

1. Decide on starting and running a real business with real products or services that are an extension of who you are. Make sure to follow your own passions, not someone else's advice on what you should be doing or selling, as this will rarely work for you in the long term, and you might as well get any old boring job.

2. Once you have decided that you are going to setup and run a real business that offers real products and services that you would be proud to talk about on lets say TV, only then are you ready to use the internet to promote it as part of your marketing.

Once you grasp this concept, you will have catapulted yourself to a different level.

Until then, you may find yourself continuing to purchase yet another internet marketing system, eBook or course, or you may continue to mess around with (insert latest advice on what you should do online from a stranger who does not run a real business here).

Arnold Stolting.


#advise #mistake #problem #stolting
  • Profile picture of the author writeaway
    Many people think that IM is all about 'selling a dream'. Sadly, the focus on 'quick bucks' and 'overnight internet millions' is fanned by copywriting that pushes the envelope a bit too far.
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  • Profile picture of the author datingworld
    Originally Posted by stoltingmediagroup View Post

    The biggest problem I see is that many people believe that "Internet Marketing" is an actual business. While in my opinion, It is not.
    Sorry but I dont agree with you.

    Internet Marketing is a real and actual business.
    I am sure there are thousands of warriors alone who have Internet Marketing as their only business and source of income.
    If done correctly, Internet Marketing can be very lucrative.....
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    • Profile picture of the author Frank Donovan
      Originally Posted by datingworld View Post

      Internet Marketing is a real and actual business.
      I am sure there are thousands of warriors alone who have Internet Marketing as their only business and source of income.
      If done correctly, Internet Marketing can be very lucrative.....
      I think you're confusing a business with a means of promotion. It's like saying TV advertising is a business.

      Your business is the actual products or services you provide. The internet is the means of delivery or promotion. It's true you can get paid for internet marketing, but then your business would be providing internet marketing services.

      That might sound pedantic, but understanding the difference can help you define what your business is - and who your customers are.


      Frank
      Signature


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    • Originally Posted by datingworld View Post

      Sorry but I dont agree with you. Internet Marketing is a real and actual business. I am sure there are thousands of warriors alone who have Internet Marketing as their only business and source of income. If done correctly, Internet Marketing can be very lucrative.....
      Of course there are folks who use the internet as their only business and source of income. I am definitely not disputing that. What I tried to convey in my post is that "internet marketing" should be seen as a way of marketing a real business, and not as a business in itself. Picture this... you see a guy outside hanging up flyers that are blank, you ask him what he's doing, he says, "I'm a flyer marketer", you say, "oh, but your flyers are blank", he says, "yeah, I'm not sure yet what I want to market yet, but maybe you can tell me what I should put on my flyer?" Do you see the irony here? Well this is what happens online everyday.
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      "I LOVE The Song! The Vibe Is Positive And Firm!" - Kymani Marley. (Son of Bob Marley).

      "Very High Quality!" Jeremy Harding - Manager / Producer. Sean Paul.
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      • Profile picture of the author mistauzz
        Originally Posted by stoltingmediagroup View Post

        What I tried to convey in my post is that "internet marketing" should be seen as a way of marketing a real business, and not as a business in itself.
        I completely understand what you're saying...the thing is for newcomers, not to the internet, but to the "make money online" part of the internet...the first thing we come across are these gurus and their products which are very short lived unless they're teaching you an actual business model that is evergreen and works equally well online as it does offline. Majority of them hardly do.

        Now the problem with your post is, this is the what i get from it, is that you should first build an offline business then use the internet as a "marketing tool" to market that business...

        ...but the problem with that is what if you don't have the idea, resources, structure, money to do that? but you really really want to be your own boss because you cant get a decent job to support yourself/family or be able to fulfill the aspirations of having the finer things in life because you're to do with minimum wage jobs? the economy gets worse and influx of immigrants start competing for even those low paid jobs? what do you do...?

        people then turn to the internet and start dabbling...and I know dabbling and failing isn't a business venture. You cant just "stumble" upon a business (a niche affiliate website that works when 10 of your others don't) and I completely understand what you're saying...

        What I would like from you then, i think it would really help myself and all newcomers, if you would talk about how you can apply offline principles to the internet and talk about REAL BUSINESS MODELS...WHICH WORK OFFLINE AND ONLINE equally well. The advantage of the internet is the Low Barrier to Entry which is why everyone comes on here dreaming of riches.

        And I'm talking about completely new aspiring entrepreneurs who aren't in Silicon valley, talking about Clouds and cant start a Netflix, or an E bay either. And cant provide a professional service...

        Is E-commerce websites their only option?

        I hope you get what I'm saying and take some time out to really nail that question of mine. I will certainly appreciate it.
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        • Profile picture of the author agmccall
          OK, so I am not a business. As long as the income keeps coming in you can call it whatever you want.

          Or more importantly you can call it whatever will help you get your post count up and signature link exposed

          al
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          "Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work." Thomas Edison

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          • Originally Posted by agmccall View Post

            OK, so I am not a business. As long as the income keeps coming in you can call it whatever you want. Or more importantly you can call it whatever will help you get your post count up and signature link exposed al
            I was going to respond to your first sentence, but your second one is offensive if you are insinuating that my main motive for writing this post and then replying to everyone is just to expose our signature link or get our post count up. I am aware that in the internet marketing arena, internet marketers refer to that strategy as forum posting. I've even seen ads to work from home and earn income online just by forum posting. I guess that's exactly my point, people start doing that type of thing online, earn a few bucks, and call themselves an "internet marketer", or even worse, a "business".
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            Arnold Stolting - Stolting Media Group
            "I LOVE The Song! The Vibe Is Positive And Firm!" - Kymani Marley. (Son of Bob Marley).

            "Very High Quality!" Jeremy Harding - Manager / Producer. Sean Paul.
            "They Are FANTASTIC!" - Willie Crawford.

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            • Profile picture of the author LBKING
              the definition of business is "particular field of endeavor " and someone can be in the business of IM does this mean they own their own business? not really but it is still a business. Anyways I disagree with you on that you should have your own product, that works for some people but not all and there is always going to be a need for those pushing the product to sales.
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              • Originally Posted by LBKING View Post

                the definition of business is "particular field of endeavor " and someone can be in the business of IM does this mean they own their own business? not really but it is still a business. Anyways I disagree with you on that you should have your own product, that works for some people but not all and there is always going to be a need for those pushing the product to sales.
                You are correct. Someone can be in the business of IM. However IM is still a means of promotion, not a business in itself. Similar to telemarketing being a means of promotion. If you decided to instead of using the web to promote a Clickbank product as an affiliate, but decided to use the phone for a telemarketing campaign instead, would you then go outside and proudly proclaim that you are a successful telemarketer?
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                Arnold Stolting - Stolting Media Group
                "I LOVE The Song! The Vibe Is Positive And Firm!" - Kymani Marley. (Son of Bob Marley).

                "Very High Quality!" Jeremy Harding - Manager / Producer. Sean Paul.
                "They Are FANTASTIC!" - Willie Crawford.

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                • Profile picture of the author LBKING
                  Originally Posted by stoltingmediagroup View Post

                  If you decided to instead of using the web to promote a Clickbank product as an affiliate, but decided to use the phone for a telemarketing campaign instead, would you then go outside and proudly proclaim that you are a successful telemarketer?
                  I think if I could do it from home on my own hours and make a decent wage id be proud of that. Others may not agree
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                • Profile picture of the author mistauzz
                  Hey stoltingmedia could you also reply to my post? I am still waiting for your reply and im not defending anything either! You completely ignored my post it seems...
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                  • Originally Posted by mistauzz View Post

                    Hey stoltingmedia could you also reply to my post? I am still waiting for your reply and im not defending anything either! You completely ignored my post it seems...

                    Sorry for the delay, my answer to your question could be summed up by using successful retail stores as a real business model example, and using good old fashioned retail sales principles as strategies than can be applied online today.

                    Prior to the internet, I have been in retail for well over 20 years. In the later years most of the positions I held was supervisory and management where I trained people to serve and sell the old school way.

                    They learned to sell the right product at the right time, in the right place, to the right crowd, at the right price, etc. Also common retail principles such as greeting the customer and making them feel at home, offering to help by asking the right questions to find out what exactly the customer needs as opposed to trying to cram just any product down their throat.

                    Then up selling / cross selling to increase the dollar per ticket, and of course selling the sizzle, not the steak. As in: "Imagine being able to capture your babies first step with this camera" as opposed to "this button does this, and it has this much memory".

                    And last but not least, getting the customers info before they walk out the door so you can keep in touch with your upcoming offers.

                    So what does all of this have to do with your question? Well, the lessons learned from working in retail offline can and should be applied online.

                    Look around a mall and you'll see that all stores decided to setup shop only "after" they decided what products they are going to carry and how they are going to sell it.
                    Not the other way around.

                    Therefore as an Internet marketer, once you decide to sell the right product (preferably something that excites you and that you have knowledge about), then all you have to do is apply good old retail strategies to running your business. You won't fail.

                    However, most new wannabe marketers online decide that they want to make money online, and this tends to be the extent of all they are sure about.
                    This leads to spending money and time on buying tons of eBooks and courses that lead them down a path of trial and error and information overload as they are exposed to 1000 things that they could / should do.

                    It's easier to first decide on a product or service that reflects who you are, then setup your bizz around it, and use the internet as part of your strategy to gain leads and gain / keep customers.
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                    Arnold Stolting - Stolting Media Group
                    "I LOVE The Song! The Vibe Is Positive And Firm!" - Kymani Marley. (Son of Bob Marley).

                    "Very High Quality!" Jeremy Harding - Manager / Producer. Sean Paul.
                    "They Are FANTASTIC!" - Willie Crawford.

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                • Profile picture of the author agmccall
                  Originally Posted by stoltingmediagroup View Post

                  You are correct. Someone can be in the business of IM. However IM is still a means of promotion, not a business in itself. Similar to telemarketing being a means of promotion. If you decided to instead of using the web to promote a Clickbank product as an affiliate, but decided to use the phone for a telemarketing campaign instead, would you then go outside and proudly proclaim that you are a successful telemarketer?
                  I would not do either. But I would let anybody that wants to call me a telemaketer call me that or if they want to call me a affiliate marketer, then more power to them.

                  It is all a matter of symantics. The term "Internet Marketer" is basically now a brand, we all know what is meant when it is said. Sort of like going into a restaurant and ordering a coke, most people just want a cola and do not really care what brand the restaurant serves and there is no real reason for having a debate about the issue.(although some people will only drink coke or pepsi)

                  This post is what is called a useless waste of time debate that solves nothing and provides no value to anyone.
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                  "Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work." Thomas Edison

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                  • Originally Posted by agmccall View Post

                    This post is what is called a useless waste of time debate that solves nothing and provides no value to anyone.

                    Naturally you are welcome to then ignore this thread and pick another to follow, or to make statements that are equal to what a 14 years old forum troll would post.
                    There are others who do get value from this.
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                    Arnold Stolting - Stolting Media Group
                    "I LOVE The Song! The Vibe Is Positive And Firm!" - Kymani Marley. (Son of Bob Marley).

                    "Very High Quality!" Jeremy Harding - Manager / Producer. Sean Paul.
                    "They Are FANTASTIC!" - Willie Crawford.

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            • Profile picture of the author writeaway
              Originally Posted by stoltingmediagroup View Post

              I was going to respond to your first sentence, but your second one is offensive if you are insinuating that my main motive for writing this post and then replying to everyone is just to expose our signature link or get our post count up. I am aware that in the internet marketing arena, internet marketers refer to that strategy as forum posting. I've even seen ads to work from home and earn income online just by forum posting. I guess that's exactly my point, people start doing that type of thing online, earn a few bucks, and call themselves an "internet marketer", or even worse, a "business".
              It could be worse. They can call themselves 'gurus'. :rolleyes
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  • Profile picture of the author TolyZ
    I completely agree with you. A lot of people think just because they got affiliate sites they running a business, NEWSFLASH - you are not. You simply generating income from internet, but you are not running an actual business. Just think about it, real businesses don't go out of business or lose 99% of their income because of Google update or ban of adsense account. Sure, some lose business if they rely on SEO, but just like stoltingmediagroup said, they use Internet as a tool.
    99% of your "businesses" are a 1 man team promoting products of others.
    99% people started IM w/o knowing what they wanted to do, what they should go after or what niche they should pick. Did you ever see that happening with a real business?

    "oH I thiNk I'm gonna starT a Business" - "What kind of business?" "Oh You KnoW, I'll Figure iT ouT later".

    99% of you tried 100 different things, until you finally managed to make a dollar from 1 and all of a sudden you a f*king businessman? That 1 thing probably selling "make $1000's / day" bs tutorials. Let's stop dreaming please.
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    • Profile picture of the author RogueOne
      The biggest problem I see is that many people believe that "Internet Marketing" is an actual business. While in my opinion, It is not.
      I think it might be true that people who were in business before getting online might be more likely to be successful.

      I've been in "marketing" since the mid 80s. I had a very real mail order business for many years. That's what I intended to continue when I got online, but the online landscape opened up new, easier ways to build my business.

      What's the difference if someone has an existing business, or creates one out of "thin Internet" ? Everyone has to start some time.
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      • Originally Posted by RogueOne View Post

        What's the difference if someone has an existing business, or creates one out of "thin Internet" ? Everyone has to start some time.
        Naturally I believe that people can start and create a business strictly online. There are hundreds of thousands of examples of that online today. My main point on that topic is that for example many folks only know for sure that they want to be an internet marketer. That's all they know. But from there, everything else is a "?".
        So they ask questions and hear that maybe they should buy web hosting, or build a blog, or a forum, or buy this script, or that one, or get this WSO's, or sign up to an "internet marketing course" all the while not having any idea of what type of business they want to run. Which brings me back to the "doing it backwards" mention in my original post.
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        "I LOVE The Song! The Vibe Is Positive And Firm!" - Kymani Marley. (Son of Bob Marley).

        "Very High Quality!" Jeremy Harding - Manager / Producer. Sean Paul.
        "They Are FANTASTIC!" - Willie Crawford.

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        • Profile picture of the author RogueOne
          Originally Posted by stoltingmediagroup View Post

          So they ask questions and hear that maybe they should buy web hosting, or build a blog, or a forum, or buy this script, or that one, or get this WSO's, or sign up to an "internet marketing course" all the while not having any idea of what type of business they want to run. Which brings me back to the "doing it backwards" mention in my original post.
          I agree.

          But that does not make this statement true.

          many people believe that "Internet Marketing" is an actual business. While in my opinion, It is not.
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          All The Real Marketers Are Gone. There's Nothing Left But Weak, Sniveling Wanna-Bees!
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    • Originally Posted by TolyZ View Post

      I completely agree with you. A lot of people think just because they got affiliate sites they running a business, NEWSFLASH - you are not......
      Thanks for your input. I can see that some folks however will get offended by hearing these things as they might be earning income on the web today. However, most do not realize that their current venture can be extremely fragile and could be affected at any time without notice. Your mentioning of the Google update is a good example. Many folks relied on ranking their blogs and affiliate review sites high up in the engines. Once the panda escaped the Google zoo, it was pretty hungry and angry. And eating a Snickers didn't cut it. That Panda ate up all of those websites from the top pages. Right after that happened, I saw allot of "Now what do I do" questions appear online. And "that" is a very good example of thinking that you are running a business on Monday, but find out you are not on Tuesday.
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      Arnold Stolting - Stolting Media Group
      "I LOVE The Song! The Vibe Is Positive And Firm!" - Kymani Marley. (Son of Bob Marley).

      "Very High Quality!" Jeremy Harding - Manager / Producer. Sean Paul.
      "They Are FANTASTIC!" - Willie Crawford.

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  • Profile picture of the author wingmanpi
    very good post. like you said the internet is a tool that can be utilized to
    enhance a real business.
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  • Profile picture of the author tremayne
    Marketing is about much more than the Internet. The Internet is one of an array of tools that can be used to market but if relied on alone it means a lot of money os being left on the table.

    Sydney
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  • Profile picture of the author MartinPlatt
    That argument is like saying marketing isn't a real business, or sales isn't a real business.

    I understand what you're trying to say, that it is the middle man to a real business, but that does not in any way make it so that it is not a business in and of itself.

    Your points as to what one should do - who says that a lot of internet marketers don't do exactly that? With information products, white label services, arbitrage, or selling someone else's product? Isn't this what shopkeepers and supermarkets do? Sell other people's products?

    If you set up a business that's a 'real business', and then you are ready to do internet marketing. If I'm being realistic, and I have a 'real business' and know nothing about internet marketing, then I would probably hire an internet marketer to help me out with strategy and implementation and so on. Isn't that a business in and of itself? As a CEO of my business, there's no way I want to learn internet marketing, why would I if I have such good products and services? That is my core strength.

    I don't see how the point to this? The advice is flawed.
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    • Originally Posted by MartinPlatt View Post

      I don't see how the point to this? The advice is flawed.
      The advice is directed towards for example a person who a few days ago somewhere in this forum stated a question similar to "I want to do internet marketing, can anyone tell me how to do Internet Marketing?" And there are many variations of this question. Many folks include that they don't know what they want to sell yet etc, and they believe that "Internet Marketing" is "the" thing they should pursue, as soon as they figure out what they want to sell or how they want to sell it. My advice may be flawed in your opinion, however It has allowed me well over a decade of being online full time running my little company.
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      Arnold Stolting - Stolting Media Group
      "I LOVE The Song! The Vibe Is Positive And Firm!" - Kymani Marley. (Son of Bob Marley).

      "Very High Quality!" Jeremy Harding - Manager / Producer. Sean Paul.
      "They Are FANTASTIC!" - Willie Crawford.

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  • Profile picture of the author David Keith
    Well, I consider myself an pretty accomplished internet marketer. I Got about 18 years under my belt.

    I can make a business out of internet marketing. I do it all the time these days for fun.

    about 2 years ago now, i was reading some stuff about adfly traffic being crap on this forum. That peaked my interest so i went to adfly, checked it out and subsequently built a small temporary business that was turning 4 figures in profit monthly. Sure it wasnt a traditional business. It was built specifically to monetize adfly traffic. I shut it down simply because i had made my point to myself...adfly traffic is not crap. Its just people dont know how to use it.

    I took a $5000 bet weekend before last that i can't start with $500 and triple my money with traffic exchanges in 180 days. with no help of course from existing leverage or partnerships of any sort. I am supremely confident i can.

    Now, i realize i am probably in the minority of folks who can successfully do many of these things in various different portions of the internet marketing arena. But that doesn't mean that internet marketing by itself can't be a viable career all on its own.

    Saying so is much like the guys who say adfly traffic is crap...they say that because THEY don't understand how to use it effectively to turn a profit.

    Basically what you are saying is the YOU dont understand how internet marketing by itself can be a viable option without a more traditional business concept behind it. You are saying that to you, it is just a method of advertising or growing a service/product style business.

    I guess i just dont agree...some of us can take internet marketing and make a full blown career out of many aspects of it over and over again...thats pretty much what i do now for entertainment.
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    • Originally Posted by David Keith View Post

      I guess i just dont agree...some of us can take internet marketing and make a full blown career out of many aspects of it over and over again...thats pretty much what i do now for entertainment.
      You are an exception my friend. I guess I should have stated that Internet marketing is not a business in itself unless your name is David Keith. Sure with significant IM marketing experience one can go online and create income generating ventures quickly, even if they are temporary and not intended to last forever. I think I've beaten the point of my post to death however in a few replies, so I'll leave it to those who wish to read them.
      Signature
      Arnold Stolting - Stolting Media Group
      "I LOVE The Song! The Vibe Is Positive And Firm!" - Kymani Marley. (Son of Bob Marley).

      "Very High Quality!" Jeremy Harding - Manager / Producer. Sean Paul.
      "They Are FANTASTIC!" - Willie Crawford.

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      • Profile picture of the author David Keith
        Originally Posted by stoltingmediagroup View Post

        You are an exception my friend. I guess I should have stated that Internet marketing is not a business in itself unless your name is David Keith. Sure with significant IM marketing experience one can go online and create income generating ventures quickly, even if they are temporary and not intended to last forever. I think I've beaten the point of my post to death however in a few replies, so I'll leave it to those who wish to read them.
        no need for sarcasm mate... Maybe i came across as hostile. That was not my intent.

        I merely wanted to point out that it is very possible to create a viable income from internet marketing all by itself without a traditional product/service oriented business actually being required as you seem to say in your OP.
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        • Originally Posted by David Keith View Post

          no need for sarcasm mate... Maybe i came across as hostile. That was not my intent.
          No sarcasm intended David. I was actually seriously trying to point out that someone with your IM skills could definitely use the web to create income. That concept is not one that I am disputing. Maybe Scroll up and check out Frank Donovan's reply. He pretty much summed up in a few words the topics in my post regarding IM being a means of promotion rather than a business. I guess that's the point that I wanted to drive home to the folks who pursue the idea of making money by "internet marketing" (but not having your level of skills and experience), as opposed to deciding on a business or product, and then using the web as a means to market it.
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          Arnold Stolting - Stolting Media Group
          "I LOVE The Song! The Vibe Is Positive And Firm!" - Kymani Marley. (Son of Bob Marley).

          "Very High Quality!" Jeremy Harding - Manager / Producer. Sean Paul.
          "They Are FANTASTIC!" - Willie Crawford.

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  • Profile picture of the author webmonopoly
    Originally Posted by stoltingmediagroup View Post

    I wanted to write this little blurb based on the same questions I see raised time and time again where someone is trying to become an "Internet Marketer," or has been "Internet Marketing" for some time online without success.

    So let me start with this,

    The biggest problem I see is that many people believe that "Internet Marketing" is an actual business. While in my opinion, It is not.

    Now before anyone gets offended because they did receive a Google adsense check, or received affiliate payments, (giving the illusion of a real business), I am very well aware that one can earn some decent income online by pursuing different opportunities, but that does not mean they are running a real sustainable business.

    You see, I personally define Internet Marketing as "using the Internet" to market an already existing "real business or product." Basically looking at the Internet as a communication tool (such as a phone), rather than as an overall business opportunity.

    I know some folks may not understand this concept, or want to believe this because they have been exposed to some big players over the years who managed to successfully use the internet to market their very real businesses and products to the masses, thereby earning millions.

    This "Millionaire Internet Marketer" concept ofcourse became very exciting, and thousands of folks figured that they wanted to do that too, (without yet having a business or product to offer.)

    So here we are today, and I still see many people saying things such as:

    "I want to become an Internet Marketer... now what should I do? What should I sell? Should I create a product? Should I become an affiliate?"

    These questions are backwards in my opinion, and therein lies the biggest mistake,
    as these people will end up spinning allot of wheels over the next few years,
    until someone who runs a real business online (like me) finds some time to offer some free and simple advice.

    Here it is...

    1. Decide on starting and running a real business with real products or services that are an extension of who you are. Make sure to follow your own passions, not someone else's advice on what you should be doing or selling, as this will rarely work for you in the long term, and you might as well get any old boring job.

    2. Once you have decided that you are going to setup and run a real business that offers real products and services that you would be proud to talk about on lets say TV, only then are you ready to use the internet to promote it as part of your marketing.

    Once you grasp this concept, you will have catapulted yourself to a different level.

    Until then, you may find yourself continuing to purchase yet another internet marketing system, eBook or course, or you may continue to mess around with (insert latest advice on what you should do online from a stranger who does not run a real business here).

    Arnold Stolting.


    So your saying that creating a business plan that relies 100% on the internet and then executing this plan with success is not a business? By real products or services are you referring to them being offline? Doesn't make too much sense to me.

    I think your just frustrated with the noobs who start threads about nonsense and you've created your own thread to vent...
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    • Profile picture of the author writeaway
      Originally Posted by webmonopoly View Post

      So your saying that creating a business plan that relies 100% on the internet and then executing this plan with success is not a business? By real products or services are you referring to them being offline? Doesn't make too much sense to me.

      I think your just frustrated with the noobs who start threads about nonsense and you've created your own thread to vent...
      Maybe all the hype and inflated promises got to him?
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      • Profile picture of the author webmonopoly
        I'm even more confused now because i clicked on his sig link and his website is about starting business online
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        • Profile picture of the author anton343
          Originally Posted by webmonopoly View Post

          I'm even more confused now because i clicked on his sig link and his website is about starting business online
          That sort of thing is not uncomon
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    • Originally Posted by webmonopoly View Post

      So your saying that creating a business plan that relies 100% on the internet and then executing this plan with success is not a business? By real products or services are you referring to them being offline? Doesn't make too much sense to me. I think your just frustrated with the noobs who start threads about nonsense and you've created your own thread to vent...
      Some of the products my business distributes are only available as an instant download on the internet, So no, I'm not saying at all that creating a business plan that relies 100% on the internet and then executing this plan with success is not a business. Maybe follow the thread and some of the replies including mine, and maybe youll see what I do mean, and you'll also see that I wrote my blurb not to vent, but simply to suggest that one should consider starting a business, and then use the web to market it as part of their strategy, rather than deciding they want to "Internet Market", but not have a business or product to market.
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  • Profile picture of the author jchengery
    Hello Stoltingmediagroup,

    I think I see your point in regards to knowing what products/services to sell and not just opportunities, but I think the way you worded it made it sound like Internet marketing in itself can't be a business - that's pretty much what you said in your first post.

    However, how have some well-known Internet marketers (Edmund Loh and Khag Ni as just two examples) who have done it strictly via PLR product collections that are solely online been successful, then? That is how they became well-known Internet marketers. To my knowledge, they were not excelling with offline ventures, products/services before they arrived on the online scene, yet they are very known in the online world as being successful, and have been for the past few years.

    That's where I think your wording has led many to believe that your message was that Internet marketing itself can't be a business when I think you meant to say more on the order that you need to know what products/services you're going to provide (along with the proper target market) and not just run on affiliate promotions and the latest "gimmicks" and "tactics" to make some money here and there.

    Another example - Amazon's Kindle, Apple's iBookstore, and B&N's NookPress - they are strictly online (not counting Amazon's CreateSpace physical publishing) - there are several notable authors who are doing quite well simply with those platforms, and some of them weren't having that type of success offline or online before the existence of these platforms.

    I could be wrong, but I think that's where the confusion and the misunderstanding have occurred. I think you've said since your first post that Internet marketing can be a business in itself, just that some more inexperienced marketers fall into the idea that they are running a business that is built up on someone else's main product or relies on one main source of traffic or has one pillar/foundation that can be usurped at a moment's notice (Google and SEO, for instance), potentially wiping them out or making them wonder what to do now because they didn't diversify and have several foundations in place as many offline businesses have.

    Just my 2 cents.

    Take care,

    Joe Chengery
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    • Originally Posted by jchengery View Post

      However, how have some well-known Internet marketers (Edmund Loh and Khag Ni as just two examples) who have done it strictly via PLR product collections that are solely online been successful, then? That is how they became well-known Internet marketers. To my knowledge, they were not excelling with offline ventures, products/services before they arrived on the online scene, yet they are very known in the online world as being successful, and have been for the past few years.
      Hi Joe and thanks for your detailed response of which I agree. You managed to understand the concept of my post. To clarify the above part of your post, If you are referring to Khai from inspiration DNA and other popular PLR series, Khai actually uses one of my recommendations for his products on his sales pages and it takes up an entire screen. Having said that, this means that I am very well aware that one can establish a successful "Internet Marketing" venture online.without having established an offline business. You however actually understand what I meant in my post, but for those reading this who still don't see my point... I guess I could add that If Khai had grown his PLR business via telemarketing, then we would have been talking about telemarketing not being the "business", but the means of marketing, and people would be arguing with me and saying things like: "what do you mean Telemarketing is not a business!!" and I would then respond with: "No its not a business, you used the phone to market your stuff and that's how your "business" became successful. There's a difference.
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  • Profile picture of the author Kevin Maguire
    So what you are saying is this?

    A Grocery Store is not a business because they sell/promote someone else's product.
    A Realtor is not a business because they sell/promote someone else's product.
    A Phoneshop is not a business because they sell/promote someone else's product.

    A Internet Marketer is not a business because they sell/promote someone else's product.

    hmm. Are you seeing the trend? Your claiming that just because a person does not have an original idea as their choice of product/service to sell/promote they are not a business?

    What you have claimed is complete nonsense in my humble opinion.
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  • Profile picture of the author David Keith
    Personally, what i think the OP was trying to say is to not do what i personally do...that is a recipe for disaster if you dont have a very strong internet marketing background to pull from.

    Basically i just look for opportunities to match traffic with people or offers that pay me in some way, shape, or form...it may not even be money on the front end.

    I think the point the OP was trying to make is that for most, internet marketing is just an advertising medium and not really a business opportunity in and of itself.

    Many of the courses out there teaching how to make money online basically promise to tell you what to sell, how to sell it, and where to find people to sell it to. That is damn hard to do.

    I know what i am doing on this sort of stuff and its very difficult for me to connect all those dots on consistent basis. I have no idea how a relative newcomer could ever get it all right from a couple of pdf's or videos.
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  • Profile picture of the author SuperDJ
    I see. So what you're saying is that Internet Marketing is simply a 'medium' where one can make money/advertise their services - but internet marketing in of itself is not a business? That makes sense. In other words, it is the assets one has that is the business? The e-mail list, the products etc?
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    • Originally Posted by SuperDJ View Post

      I see. So what you're saying is that Internet Marketing is simply a 'medium' where one can make money/advertise their services - but internet marketing in of itself is not a business? That makes sense. In other words, it is the assets one has that is the business? The e-mail list, the products etc?
      That's exactly correct. You've hit the needle on the record.
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    • Profile picture of the author scrofford
      Originally Posted by SuperDJ View Post

      I see. So what you're saying is that Internet Marketing is simply a 'medium' where one can make money/advertise their services - but internet marketing in of itself is not a business? That makes sense. In other words, it is the assets one has that is the business? The e-mail list, the products etc?
      It's a business model in which you DO BUSINESS. If you sell digital products exclusively on the internet, you have an internet business. I understand the concept, but it's not completely correct.
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  • Profile picture of the author clever7
    The biggest problem I see is that many people believe that "Internet Marketing" is an actual business. While in my opinion, It is not.


    I believe that the definition you give about an internet business that is not ‘a real business’ is based on making money thanks to various opportunities that may disappear tomorrow.

    For me my internet business is a real business. I have my ebook store in it, and I help the public through instant email messages, which can be read later when they are not online.

    Without the internet I would have to depend on selling hard copies of my very long ebooks (which would be too heavy and too expensive) and I would have to depend on the phone to talk with my clients, what means that I would have to talk with them whenever they could be available.

    The email messages are the best solution I could find. The internet simplified everything for me and my clients.



    An internet business is very real when you are working based on giving something substantial to those who will pay you online.






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  • Profile picture of the author David Keith
    it can be both a business in and of itself and just a simple advertising medium for a more traditional business.

    There are indeed people who are professional telemarketers, postcard/direct mailers, internet marketers.....

    These people can build an entire viable, long term, sell-able business just by connecting the dots between consumers and products using their chosen field of expertise.

    To some of us, internet marketing is much much more than just an advertising medium. It is an entire industry...and i am not talking about the how to make money niche...i mean internet marketing in general.

    I dont even operate in the IM niche. no thanks...lol.

    I mean you could say the same thing about "affiliate marketing". That affiliate marketing is just a marketing tactic. It is in a way, but it is also a very viable business concept to build a business on all by itself.
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  • Profile picture of the author SEOExpert999
    I think it is this simple. People must look at internet marketing as a skill to learn. Just like mail-order marketing, billboard marketing, newspaper marketing, business to business marketing, etc... When people say they want to start internet marketing and ask which product they should sell that is the first mistake. The first question should be "What is internet marketing and its different types and which 1 is best for me?" What are the skills, processes, and knowledge do I need to master that type of internet marketing only?" Just like any other marketing, it is a business because other businesses will pay you to do all types of internet marketing for there companies. There is email marketing, ppc marketing, seo marketing, social marketing, local online placement marketing, solo ad marketing, etc.. Internet marketing is a business and a service you need to know that, that is what you are doing not promoting a product. You must learn a internet marketing skill first then you can promote a product. If you are just looking to make some money only then you are not going to succeed until you master 1 of the internet marketing skills.
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  • Profile picture of the author MKCookins
    I think the big idea is to have an actual Business online is you need CUSTOMERS!

    A product, idea, or website is NOT a business but your customers. That is why building a List of people interested in your subject matter and developing a relationship is so important.

    The difference between brick and mortar and the internet is it cost a lot less to get started - and you have the whole world to promote to.
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    • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
      Originally Posted by datingworld View Post

      Sorry but I dont agree with you.

      Internet Marketing is a real and actual business.
      I am sure there are thousands of warriors alone who have Internet Marketing as their only business and source of income.
      If done correctly, Internet Marketing can be very lucrative.....
      So, how many Internets have you sold?

      Originally Posted by Kevin Maguire View Post

      So what you are saying is this?

      A Grocery Store is not a business because they sell/promote someone else's product.
      A Realtor is not a business because they sell/promote someone else's product.
      A Phoneshop is not a business because they sell/promote someone else's product.

      A Internet Marketer is not a business because they sell/promote someone else's product.

      hmm. Are you seeing the trend? Your claiming that just because a person does not have an original idea as their choice of product/service to sell/promote they are not a business?

      What you have claimed is complete nonsense in my humble opinion.
      A grocery store is in the business of buying food and selling it at a profit.

      A Realtor is in the business of providing marketing services to sellers and assistance to buyers.

      A phone shop is in the business of providing marketing services and support to phone companies.

      An "Internet Marketer" (actually, an affiliate in your usage) is in the business of providing either lead generation or marketing services in return for a commission.

      All can be considered real businesses. Or not, depending on the operator.

      During the real estate bubble here in Florida, you couldn't swing a dead cat by the tail without hitting someone with a real estate license. Most were amateurs looking to make a few easy bucks during a boom. When the market melted down, you found out who the pros who were in it for the long haul were.

      David Keith has been online for almost two decades, but I wouldn't call him an Internet Marketer. He's in the business of matching buyers and sellers. In some cases, he might also be the seller.

      In the adfly example he gave, he wasn't in the "adfly business", he was in the business of providing leads to adfly advertisers in a profitable way. The fact that he used the Internet is irrelevant, other than the fact that he had the skills to use an online medium to provide leads.

      Basically, he's an opportunist in the most positive, complimentary sense of the word. He's in the business of spotting opportunities and using his skills and contacts to extract profit from those opportunities.
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      • Profile picture of the author Kevin Maguire
        Originally Posted by JohnMcCabe View Post

        So, how many Internets have you sold?
        I bow in respect your answer.
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  • Profile picture of the author scrofford
    Originally Posted by stoltingmediagroup View Post

    I wanted to write this little blurb based on the same questions I see raised time and time again where someone is trying to become an "Internet Marketer," or has been "Internet Marketing" for some time online without success.

    So let me start with this,

    The biggest problem I see is that many people believe that "Internet Marketing" is an actual business. While in my opinion, It is not.

    Now before anyone gets offended because they did receive a Google adsense check, or received affiliate payments, (giving the illusion of a real business), I am very well aware that one can earn some decent income online by pursuing different opportunities, but that does not mean they are running a real sustainable business.

    You see, I personally define Internet Marketing as "using the Internet" to market an already existing "real business or product." Basically looking at the Internet as a communication tool (such as a phone), rather than as an overall business opportunity.

    I know some folks may not understand this concept, or want to believe this because they have been exposed to some big players over the years who managed to successfully use the internet to market their very real businesses and products to the masses, thereby earning millions.

    This "Millionaire Internet Marketer" concept ofcourse became very exciting, and thousands of folks figured that they wanted to do that too, (without yet having a business or product to offer.)

    So here we are today, and I still see many people saying things such as:

    "I want to become an Internet Marketer... now what should I do? What should I sell? Should I create a product? Should I become an affiliate?"

    These questions are backwards in my opinion, and therein lies the biggest mistake,
    as these people will end up spinning allot of wheels over the next few years,
    until someone who runs a real business online (like me) finds some time to offer some free and simple advice.

    Here it is...

    1. Decide on starting and running a real business with real products or services that are an extension of who you are. Make sure to follow your own passions, not someone else's advice on what you should be doing or selling, as this will rarely work for you in the long term, and you might as well get any old boring job.

    2. Once you have decided that you are going to setup and run a real business that offers real products and services that you would be proud to talk about on lets say TV, only then are you ready to use the internet to promote it as part of your marketing.

    Once you grasp this concept, you will have catapulted yourself to a different level.

    Until then, you may find yourself continuing to purchase yet another internet marketing system, eBook or course, or you may continue to mess around with (insert latest advice on what you should do online from a stranger who does not run a real business here).

    Arnold Stolting.


    I don't necessarily agree with you. If you create DIGITAL products and sell them from a website exclusively, then you have an INTERNET MARKETING business.

    If you have a brick and mortar business and use the internet to market your products and services, then yes, I can agree with what you are talking about. But to say that selling products and services on the internet is not a true business is what get's a lot of people in trouble, and most never do make a lot of money because they don't treat it like a business as they should.

    Any way you slice it, if you are making money from selling products or services on the internet, you have an internet business. It might not be your full business model, but it is an internet business. A REAL BUSINESS.

    What do you think that internet sales are fake or plastic? Real money is exchanged and you can pay your bills, or feed your family or buy what you want with the money you earned on that said not real internet business.
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  • Profile picture of the author Charanjit
    Agree and disagree.

    Agree it is a model of communication for real life businesses out their and can provide an added income stream.

    disagree - their are a lot of business models that are based on Internet marketing. clickbank? and another 1000 affiliate programs out their.

    just to throw it out their, could you name another business communication method that is not a business.
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    Arnold - I fell into this forum around 7 years ago, and the real minds in here then were telling people the same thing..........and have been all along the way. It's nice to see that some people actually "get it". People are always screaming about how do gurus do it, they don't want us to know, why can't I do it then -- yadda yadda yadda, blah blah blah. Well, if they look real hard at what these "gurus" were doing OFFLINE before they got here - most were learning business and educating themselves.

    Not understanding the concept that marketing is NOT the business itself seems like a pretty fundamental concept. I guess there just aren't many people who understand the fundamentals running around wanting to fire their bosses.
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  • Profile picture of the author visimedia
    I prefer to sell real business and real products than just "selling a dream".
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  • Profile picture of the author Will Edwards
    Originally Posted by stoltingmediagroup View Post

    The biggest problem I see is that many people believe that "Internet Marketing" is an actual business. While in my opinion, It is not.
    Firstly, good post.

    The discussion (above) around the issue of whether or not IM is a business reminds me of something similar and related to IT in business.

    For many organisations, IT is not a business, it is something that supports the business. However, for a good number of other organisations, IT IS the business.

    Anyway, same thing applies to IM.

    Will
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  • Profile picture of the author debra leroy
    Banned
    I think many people fail because they fail to understand the concept of IM and, moreover, the idea that money do not come over night! There are no miracles in IM and no kinder surprise! You work hard and you get informed! That is the way you should start in the first place.
    Those who are chasing wild geese will never be successful, that is for sure.
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    • Profile picture of the author Daniel Evans
      If you trade / sell goods for profit it's a business.

      It doesn't matter how a person might see it, how easy it may seem, how different it is from a "regular" job, it is a business.

      If a person stole lead from roofs and sold it as scrap, they too are operating a business, albeit an illegal one.


      Daniel
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  • Profile picture of the author PerformanceMan
    Of course 'Internet Marketing' is a friggin' business...

    Are we honestly debating this? LOL
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  • Profile picture of the author Daniel Evans
    Originally Posted by stoltingmediagroup View Post



    The biggest problem I see is that many people believe that "Internet Marketing" is an actual business. While in my opinion, It is not.

    Now before anyone gets offended because they did receive a Google adsense check, or received affiliate payments, (giving the illusion of a real business), I am very well aware that one can earn some decent income online by pursuing different opportunities, but that does not mean they are running a real sustainable business.
    There's an additional vector that you state in the second paragraph which puts things into context.

    Sustainability can surely be debated, however it is not a factor in any state which detracts from an act of trade being a business, which it is by definition.

    An "actual / real business" can still be so, without it being futureproof.

    It's an actual / real business whilst it's turning over profit no matter what it's destiny may be.

    There are many past and current profitable businesses that ride upon trends that come and go and those declines are all factored in as part of the financial forecast.


    Daniel
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    • Profile picture of the author writeaway
      Originally Posted by Daniel Evans View Post

      There's an additional vector that you state in the second paragraph which puts things into context.

      Sustainability can surely be debated, however it is not a factor in any state which detracts from an act of trade being a business, which it is by definition.

      An "actual / real business" can still be so, without it being futureproof.

      It's an actual / real business whilst it's turning over profit no matter what it's destiny may be.

      There are many past and current profitable businesses that ride upon trends that come and go and those declines are all factored in as part of the financial forecast.


      Daniel
      Great point. You can have a REAL biz but you still have to ADAPT to changing conditions.
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  • Profile picture of the author writeaway
    The confusion stems from the fact that IM can be construed at its own industry - ie., 'I get rich by telling other people how rich I am' ala John Chow. That's separate from IM which is part of growing an ecommerce or other type of website. Stolting raises good points re the former type of IM though.
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  • Profile picture of the author mayagh
    marketing a business is a business on its own and a service you provide... you can market a product or information books, or services for business to market their products... all the same, you are a internet marketer that will help businesses grow and this itself is a business with lots of potential...
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  • Profile picture of the author Dariuszden
    Philosphy for this this thread "stay out of other people's business"

    I mean honestly, there is no clear cut definition of business, and if you can start a one person company/business and be recognized by law as a business, than why would you deny that?
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