Reality Check: Your opinion is not necessarily a fact...

[R Hagel]

Some folks on this forum seem to have a problem telling the difference between opinion and fact. That might be OK on the Britney Spears forum, but it could be dangerous here on the Warrior Forum.

Here's why...

There are lots of beginning marketers here on the forum. Some post, but it's likely the vast majority just lurk. But they're reading, absorbing, learning and applying.

Problem is, if you post your opinion as fact, there are a lot of people who are going to assume that what you say is true, reliable, factual and applicable. So they run off and apply this little tidbit, only to find it doesn't work.

They lose time. They may even lose money. (And if this happens enough, they may lose confidence.)

Here's the thing...

Learning IM has a big enough curve as it is -- so let's try to avoid muddying up these waters by posting opinions as if they were facts. Posting opinion as fact might get you a flaming thread and lots of link exposure... but all of that may be at the expense of some struggling beginner.

Cheers,
Becky


P.S. Quick lesson in the difference between opinion and fact...

Fact: Article marketing is one way to drive traffic to your site.


Opinion written as fact: STOP using article marketing. It doesn't work. Period.


Opinion written as an opinion: In my opinion, article marketing doesn't work.

--OR--

My tracking shows article marketing is pretty ineffective in my niche. Of course it's possible I just need to tweak my strategy. YMMV

[Corwinnx]

Becky,

Excellent post. Can I add some 'similiar thoughts?'

1.) Education provides knowledge, but only experience can instill 'wisdom'
2.) It is better to say nothing and be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt.
3.) God gave you two ears and one mouth. Do the math. It's not a 'learning disability, it's a 'listening' disability.

Thanks... off soapbox now... hehe.....

Warmest Regards,
Marcus

[R Hagel]

Marcus --

Originally Posted by Corwinnx

Becky,
2.) It is better to say nothing and be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt.

Was that some kind of hint directed towards me?




Just kidding.

Thanks for the useful additions.

Cheers,
Becky

[Andyhenry]

Good call Becky.

The reality of most IM activities is that they can ALL make money - so something not working for one person just means that it doesn't work for them in the way they did it - nothing more, nothing less.

[Jamie Iaconis]

Hi Becky...

This is definitely alot to be said about how people say things...

Like for example, when I speak I like to use the words that
literally mean what I am trying to say... just so there is
no mis-understanding on exactly what I meant!

Jamie

[legitimatefreestuff]

Originally Posted by Corwinnx

2.) It is better to say nothing and be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt.

If you follow this quote you're in trouble.

[JayXtreme]

Originally Posted by Jamie Iaconis

Hi Becky...

This is definitely alot to be said about how people say things...

Like for example, when I speak I like to use the words that
literally mean what I am trying to say... just so there is
no mis-understanding on exactly what I meant!

Jamie

I don't understand what you mean Jamie, could you explain?


.




@Becky


Bravo, Bravo, Bravo....

Last time I posted about this topic, it was in similar fashion to how you have here and I think it was Kay King agreed and said something similar to:

If people would simply include the words, in my opinion, or I think that...

I thought she was spot on with that.

Opinions are great for sharing, but making them absolutes is a dangerous game when people are learning in the background..

Kudos to you for raising the issue Becky, I do think this point needs to come up once in a while for some that might not realise they are doing it..

Peace

Jay

p.s. Tha above is, of course, only my opinion.. free and worth every penny

[Paul M]

Becky, Is that your opinion or fact.

j/k

Another way to deal with it (IMO), would be to call it out when you see it.




-Paul

[R Hagel]

Originally Posted by Andyhenry

Good call Becky.

The reality of most IM activities is that they can ALL make money - so something not working for one person just means that it doesn't work for them in the way they did it - nothing more, nothing less.

Exactly.

Originally Posted by Jamie Iaconis

Hi Becky...

This is definitely alot to be said about how people say things...

Like for example, when I speak I like to use the words that
literally mean what I am trying to say... just so there is
no mis-understanding on exactly what I meant!

Jamie

Yeah, I like the B.K. Broiler too... though sometimes I request they take the mayo off. Do you find it's too dry without the mayo?



(Just messin' with ya.)

Originally Posted by JayXtreme

Last time I posted about this topic...

I missed the previous post -- so kudos to you as well for bringing it up (and to whoever else has done it in the past). It IS worth repeating as posting opinions as facts happens repeatedly.

...it was in similar fashion to how you have here and I think it was Kay King agreed and said something similar to:

If people would simply include the words, in my opinion, or I think that...

I thought she was spot on with that.

I agree. Simple as that.

Originally Posted by Paul M

Becky, Is that your opinion or fact.

Obviously it's a fact. Course if you started this thread, then I'd be leaning more towards opinion. (j/k)

Originally Posted by BlogBrowser

And what are FACTS anyway? There are no FACTS in business since the same strategy might work for some but not for others.

That's exactly it. Read Andy's and Jay's posts above. Posting something as fact (like "it doesn't work") may mean a confused beginner could miss out on something profitable if he/she takes it purely as fact. (The real answer is "test it.")


Cheers,
Becky

[John Taylor]

Becky,

I wish you'd stop plagiarising my old threads:
Reality Check



John

[Richard Tunnah]

Great post Becky. There's very few facts that can be posted here as different markets, niches, countries and people are involved. Unfortunately it comes down to good old testing.

Rich

[R Hagel]

Originally Posted by John Taylor

Becky,

I wish you'd stop plagiarising my old threads:
Reality Check



John

Well John, I just wanted to share a few observations and words of caution with the group. Because let's face it, members have a responsibility to the forum.

Hey, and what's all this talk about plagiarising? I'd say that unless you know the poster personally, you don't know the poster. So maybe since you don't me you're jumping to some big conclusions. Besides, you may not know the true intent behind the post.

Likewise, I won't jump to any conclusions about you, because I don't know the "state" of the person posting (Drugs, Alcohol, stupidity, insanity?)



cheers,
Becky

p.s. This post makes more sense if you read the link John posted above.

[Steven Wagenheim]

Never being one to not admit when I screw up (I do it so often), this used
to be a major problem of mine, one which I hope I have corrected. I used
to think just because something worked, or didn't work for me, that it would
be true for everybody.

Not only did this screw up a lot of newbies heads, but it also got me a lot
of slack, slings, arrows and whatnot in the process.

The end result?

A lot of folks who just got plain pissed off at me.

So not only does stating opinion as fact screw with people's lives, it also
wrecks havoc with your own reputation.

So take it from a major screwup in this area...don't do it.

Of course that's just my opinion.

Some folks can get away with just about anything.

[DavidTheMavin]

Facts are supported by data and good old fashion math. Be weary of an IM who failed economics, logic AND algebra class!

Internet Marketing is like math or science NOT politics or religion

Edit: Clarified if they've failed all three ;-)

[Todd Lamb]

Originally Posted by DavidTheMavin

Facts are supported by data and good old fashion math. Be weary of an IM who failed economics, logic or algebra class!

Internet Marketing is like math or science NOT politics or religion

hmmmm...passed 1 of those three with an A which means .33 repeated..I can insert the following logic- "I post therefore I am" - and algebra...well I've got nuthin there


I agree completely with the thread here. Often there is an element of desperation in some people new to the forum/ IM and irresponsible posts cause a significant amount of chaos when someone is trying to sort through it all.

[Corwinnx]

Originally Posted by DavidTheMavin

Facts are supported by data and good old fashion math. Be weary of an IM who failed economics, logic or algebra class!

Internet Marketing is like math or science NOT politics or religion

David, the big problem is 'economics and opinions'. The Economic Theory is just that... a 'theory'. Some people mistake 'theories' and 'opinions' as 'facts.'

All in all, still a great thread, Becky.

Warmest Regards,
Marcus

P.S. Of course that wasn't directed at you Becky. You are one of the nicest people on the forum.

[Adaptive]

In my opinion, trying to teach people who don't know how to say "in my opinion" is a waste of time, because in their opinion, their opinion is fact and your opinion is just wrong! But that is one opinion, and the fact is that your opinion about teaching people the facts about opinions might result in facts that, in your opinion, are better.

Regards,
Allen

[Corwinnx]

Originally Posted by Adaptive

In my opinion, trying to teach people who don't know how to say "in my opinion" is a waste of time, because in their opinion, their opinion is fact and your opinion is just wrong! But that is one opinion, and the fact is that your opinion about teaching people the facts about opinions might result in facts that, in your opinion, are better.

Regards,
Allen

Where is Paul Meyers? Sounds like something he would say!

That is priceless!

[cmbwealth]

I also believe it is up to us newbies to use our heads.

The first time I came into the forum I was overwhelmed with all of the info, but I quickly figured out to read all the way to the bottom of a page.

That way I could get more than one opinion and start to make my own.

Mark

[crissanteiro]

Thanks for taking the lead and looking out for newbies and others. It's appreciated.

[gb4biz]

Becky, I'm starting to become a "Becky" fan. Great post, can I use it on my blog with attributes of course. Do you Twitter? Thanks, George

[InternetMarketingCenter]

Great advice -- you should stop by a LOT of message and discussion boards with that bit of counsel.

[artwebster]

Hi, Becky,

In my opinion that was a good post but also in my opinion if someone cannot differentiate an opinion and a fact they should stop reading in areas where the confusion could be damaging to their health and/or wealth.

In my opinion far too many people are incapable of forming an opinion and expressing it and also, in my opinion, far too many people will respond to a forum post like yours and ignore all other responses - this simply confirms that they, in my opinion, do not value information from other posters as tools with which to create or modify an opinion of their own.

One other thing, in my opinion, if someone posts something that calls for an opinion, the words 'in my opinion' are redundant.

[Adaptive]

One other thing, in my opinion

You said it better than I did, Art.

Of course, in my opinion, you're more opinionated than me.

Regards,
Allen

[Zeus66]

Stop all this lollygagging and get back to work. Slackers.

[Adaptive]

I put thanks on your post for sharing your opinion that I shouldn't be a lollygagging slacker.

Now if you'll excuse me, this slacker has some more lollygagging to do.

Regards,
Allen

[Trader54]

Bring in Quantum physics and facts are in the eye of the beholder.

[Traffic-Bug]

Yes the OP is right (orig poster), hype is built on lies and statistics that people use this and that, and then people really start using this and that.

[John Taylor]

Originally Posted by Traffic-Bug

Yes the OP is right (orig poster), hype is built on lies and statistics that people use this and that, and then people really start using this and that.

In my opinion, you were somewhat remiss in
omitting to mention the other along with this
and that.

Now I must go and find some factual analysis
which defines "lollygagging"

John

[shane_k]

Originally Posted by cmbwealth

I also believe it is up to us newbies to use our heads.

The first time I came into the forum I was overwhelmed with all of the info, but I quickly figured out to read all the way to the bottom of a page.

That way I could get more than one opinion and start to make my own.

Mark

Yeah I also learned to read through to the bottom of the page so I could see more than the original posters opinion.

I think a part of the responsibility is on us newbies to develop that skill to learn the difference between facts and opinions.

And I think, in my opinion, that learning the difference between facts and opinions in our everyday lives would definately change a lot of things.


Shane_K

[Karen Connell]

Originally Posted by cmbwealth

I also believe it is up to us newbies to use our heads.

The first time I came into the forum I was overwhelmed with all of the info, but I quickly figured out to read all the way to the bottom of a page.

That way I could get more than one opinion and start to make my own.

Mark

My opinion also.

When I first started reading all the information on this forum, it made my brain bleed....

Now I read and filter out the 'unbelievable' and 'hype' on this product and that product.

I just want to understand the correct way to do stuff but understand that it a steep (but interesting) learning curve!

Karen

p.s. Word of the Day - Lollygagging!!

[sourcecode]

Hey R Hagel,

Excellent, what I like about your post is your opinion is FACT.

After looking over my tracking and comparing everything, my articles are way more affective then anything else. But that's just what works for me.

What works for one may not work for another...

Great Posts ^5

[artwebster]

Hey R Hagel,

Excellent, what I like about your post is your opinion is FACT.

It can be one or the other - it can't be both. That was the whole point of the post! (Sorry. In my opinion.)

The existence of a fact precludes that fact from also being an opinion (quantum physics excepted, in my opinion) however, should an opinion become a fact, in my opinion, the opinion ceases to be an opinion and becomes a fact - which, by its nature, in my opinion, cannot resist the termination of its previous existence as an opinion.

There is, in my opinion, an important moderation to the fact/opinion continuum and that is if your opinion is based upon a fact that is not the sole import of your opinion. In my opinion, any way.

[aparadekto]

Research stuff in your own before blindly believing yourself or other people.

[R Hagel]

Originally Posted by gb4biz

Becky, I'm starting to become a "Becky" fan. Great post, can I use it on my blog with attributes of course. Do you Twitter? Thanks, George

Thank you for the kind words, George. Yes, you sure use the post, no problem.

As for Twitter... not regularly enough to call it Twittering. (Heh, so that means no.)


--

Awesome discussion unfolding.

I am completely in agreement with those who've said that ultimately a person's success is up to that person. I'm one of those who believes that you won't find success until you take not only credit for your successes, but responsibility for your failures and shortcomings.

So I do want to make it clear that I don't think beginners should blame posters or the forum or whatever if something doesn't work out for them. Every person is still responsible for him or herself.


Cheers,
Becky

[artwebster]

I am completely in agreement with those who've said that ultimately a person's success is up to that person. I'm one of those who believes that you won't find success until you take not only credit for your successes, but responsibility for your failures and shortcomings.

So I do want to make it clear that I don't think beginners should blame posters or the forum or whatever if something doesn't work out for them. Every person is still responsible for him or herself.

Which just goes to show how streams take on a life of their own and become totally unrelated to the original subject, which in the case of the OP was to not confuse fact with opinion. (Damn, forgot - In my opinion).

It is interesting to see how one of the reasons for the subject has, itself, become the subject. IMO

[Zeus66]

Why are you people all still here? Don't you have work to do? This tomfoolery must end.

[TheCren]

Great post! Although I hope I'm not one of the one's who's guilty of such atrocities.