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CONFUSED! Are buying keywords mandatory for amazon related niche ?

by Globy
38 replies
Hi,

I am in the process of creating some little niche website targeting amazon products.

While i do the keyword research for my sites, i am getting a bit confused.

For example (not real)
If look into "double camping pillows" for example, i get quite a nice volume of 5000 exacts.

The thing is, is that a keyword i should target ?

Because if i try this with buying keywords i get much less

"best double camping pillows" - 120 exacts
"double camping pillows reviews" - 110 exacts
"double camping pillows price" - 90 exacts

Or even worse if a try to target specific products
e.g. "Martin black GR54 camping pillow" - no searches at all

What should i do in your opinion ?
Should I look into "product specific" keywords, "Product category + buying keywords" or just "product categories" keywords ?

For example, i was reading about this Pubic niche site building, that guy from NichePersuits.com does (Niche Site Project 1 Overview | Niche Pursuits).

He picked "best survival knife" as his main keyword. That's targeting a category, not specific products. But the "best" may do some difference as a buying keyword.

Im a big confused as you can see.

I would appreciate any help from the more experienced than me (who are the most in here)

Thank you!
#amazon #buying #confused #keywords #mandatory #niche #related
  • Profile picture of the author wolfmmiii
    With a 24-hour cookie, "buying" keywords perform much better than generic terms. Be careful when using keyword research tools. Focusing on ONE TERM and assuming there is no search volume can be very misleading.

    Targeting a bunch of products like "Martin black GR54 camping pillow" will often allow you to rank very easily and since it's a very specific "buying" term, conversions should be good. Do you really think "nobody"is is searching for "Martin black GR54 camping pillow" just because the tool says so? Highly unlikely.
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    • Profile picture of the author Globy
      Originally Posted by wolfmmiii View Post

      With a 24-hour cookie, "buying" keywords perform much better than generic terms. Be careful when using keyword research tools. Focusing on ONE TERM and assuming there is no search volume can be very misleading.

      Targeting a bunch of products like "Martin black GR54 camping pillow" will often allow you to rank very easily and since it's a very specific "buying" term, conversions should be good. Do you really think "nobody"is is searching for "Martin black GR54 camping pillow" just because the tool says so? Highly unlikely.
      Thank you much for your post. It really makes sense.
      I had purchased your "amazon review site blueprint" and i did have some success with it. Very satisfied!

      What im trying to do now is create some highly targeted sites, with no need to look for the brand new products out there (and the risk, not to pick up).

      So, you suggest "product model" specific targeting, as i can see.

      Thank you
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      • Profile picture of the author Stevie C
        Originally Posted by Globy View Post

        Thank you much for your post. It really makes sense.
        I had purchased your "amazon review site blueprint" and i did have some success with it. Very satisfied!

        What im trying to do now is create some highly targeted sites, with no need to look for the brand new products out there (and the risk, not to pick up).

        So, you suggest "product model" specific targeting, as i can see.

        Thank you
        Wolfmii's main strategy is new products that are easy to rank for and he does very well from it. There are certainly a lot of different strategies for Amazon I like the way Spencer at Niche Pursuits has set up his site.

        I'd say my sites are like a hybrid of wolmii's and Spencer's I try to optimize the home page for Best xxxx and then add as many reviews for new products as available as well as a mix of older products and some informational articles with links back to the reviews.

        Once I've found a niche and done some initial keyword research I prefer to just pump out as much content as possible rather than analyze everything to much, it might be a mistake on my part but I still think that success with Amazon is often a numbers game though there are lots of other factors to take into account.
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        • Profile picture of the author Globy
          Originally Posted by Stevie C View Post

          Wolfmii's main strategy is new products that are easy to rank for and he does very well from it. There are certainly a lot of different strategies for Amazon I like the way Spencer at Niche Pursuits has set up his site.

          I'd say my sites are like a hybrid of wolmii's and Spencer's I try to optimize the home page for Best xxxx and then add as many reviews for new products as available as well as a mix of older products and some informational articles with links back to the reviews.

          Once I've found a niche and done some initial keyword research I prefer to just pump out as much content as possible rather than analyze everything to much, it might be a mistake on my part but I still think that success with Amazon is often a numbers game though there are lots of other factors to take into account.
          Thank you so much for sharing Stevie. I do believe in wolmii's approach, as i have tested it. But its hard to keep up with new products all the time. Its not easily scalable.

          That's why i got confused.
          Because im not sure if i rank for a generic term like "double camping pillows", the traffic i will get will be in a "buying mode".

          But Spencer "has proven" with his site, that it may works that way too.
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  • Profile picture of the author conanedo
    i think you can target "double camping pillows" as your main keyword and then you create pages and target the buyer keyword too..
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  • Profile picture of the author Stevie C
    Originally Posted by Globy View Post


    For example, i was reading about this Pubic niche site building, that guy from NichePersuits.com does
    I love pubic niche building!
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    • Profile picture of the author Globy
      Originally Posted by Stevie C View Post

      I love pubic niche building!
      I do agree with you. Its the best way to learn! I'm looking for those like a mad man.
      Share if you have found something interesting.
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  • Profile picture of the author wolfmmiii
    "double camping pillows" will bring in traffic that is "early" in the buying cycle.

    From AdWords:

    More specific keywords tend to convert at a higher rate than general keywords. For example, consider the following keywords: 'Acme,' 'Acme printers,' 'Acme 710,' and 'Acme 710c.' Usually a more specific keyword like 'Acme 710c' will convert at a higher rate than 'Acme.' Users searching for brand names, product IDs, or even SKU numbers have typically already researched their product and want to make a purchase.
    For reference:

    Using Specific Keywords to Increase Conversions - AdWords Certification Help
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    • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
      Originally Posted by wolfmmiii View Post

      "double camping pillows" will bring in traffic that is "early" in the buying cycle.

      From AdWords:



      For reference:

      Using Specific Keywords to Increase Conversions - AdWords Certification Help
      Which can be an advantage if you're willing to educate prospects. Teach them what a good 'double camping pillow' should have (which the products you go on to recommend all have) and what they should not (which one or two of your reviews might point out).

      If you can catch them earlier in the buying cycle, you have a chance to guide their buying decision, eliminating the need for them to do product-specific searches.

      As you've seen, the prospect pool is also bigger at this point.
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      • Profile picture of the author Globy
        Originally Posted by JohnMcCabe View Post

        Which can be an advantage if you're willing to educate prospects. Teach them what a good 'double camping pillow' should have (which the products you go on to recommend all have) and what they should not (which one or two of your reviews might point out).

        If you can catch them earlier in the buying cycle, you have a chance to guide their buying decision, eliminating the need for them to do product-specific searches.

        As you've seen, the prospect pool is also bigger at this point.
        that's true too John. Your point is very good.
        At that point, you may capture an email and contact them at a later stage.

        I guess, there are 2 (or more) ways to go for it.

        Is that working for you John? Having success?

        Thank you for sharing!
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      • Profile picture of the author wolfmmiii
        Originally Posted by JohnMcCabe View Post


        As you've seen, the prospect pool is also bigger at this point.
        Agreed. With a cookie duration of 24 hours though, this can be a tough task. You are basically counting on taking someone who is not yet ready to buy and running them through the entire cycle before he leaves your site (or, at least, hoping he comes back).
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        • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
          Banned
          Originally Posted by wolfmmiii View Post

          You are basically counting on taking someone who is not yet ready to buy and running them through the entire cycle before he leaves your site (or, at least, hoping he comes back).
          Not if you see the primary purpose of your site as being to build your list: that takes away the time-pressure because you can effectively cookie them again later (of course it takes away some of the people, too, but as John's pointed out, you're starting off with far more visitors in the first place).

          You're also able to make repeated sales to the same people (which is where most of the money is, in affiliate marketing).

          Originally Posted by Globy View Post

          Are buying keywords mandatory for amazon related niche ?
          No - they're not. But if you're trying to make affiliate sales without list-building, well, that's another matter altogether. And maybe they are, then.
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          • Profile picture of the author wolfmmiii
            Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

            Not if you see the primary purpose of your site as being to build your list: that takes away the time-pressure because you can effectively cookie them again later (of course it takes away some of the people, too, but as John's pointed out, you're starting off with far more visitors in the first place).

            You're also able to make repeated sales to the same people (which is where most of the money is, in affiliate marketing).



            No - they're not. But if you're trying to make affiliate sales without list-building, well, that's another matter altogether. And maybe they are, then.
            Much depends on the type of site you are running and the type of traffic you want to capture.

            If a visitor to my product review site is late in the buying cycle and has his wallet out, ready to purchase the $1500 lawn tractor (as evidenced by his "poulan pro x5300 review" search term), the last thing I want to do is get in the way of the purchase.

            Now, if the primary focus of my site is to build a list, well that's a different story.

            Some of you seem to think "the list" is the be-all end-all. It's not.

            Where, exactly, is CNET doing their "required" list-building on the page below?

            http://www.cnet.com/laptops/lenovo-i...-35561178.html

            If they are trying to get my email, they are doing a terrible job because it's not obvious.

            Instead, they have built themselves into an authority that people return to over and over. No list required when you simply provide solid info and build yourself into a destination.
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            • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
              Originally Posted by wolfmmiii View Post

              Much depends on the type of site you are running and the type of traffic you want to capture.

              If a visitor to my product review site is late in the buying cycle and has his wallet out, ready to purchase the $1500 lawn tractor (as evidenced by his "poulan pro x5300 review" search term), the last thing I want to do is get in the way of the purchase.

              Now, if the primary focus of my site is to build a list, well that's a different story.

              Some of you seem to think "the list" is the be-all end-all. It's not.

              Where, exactly, is CNET doing their "required" list-building on the page below?

              Lenovo IdeaPad Z400 Touch Review - Watch CNET's Video & Read Our Review

              If they are trying to get my email, they are doing a terrible job because it's not obvious.

              Instead, they have built themselves into an authority that people return to over and over. No list required when you simply provide solid info and build yourself into a destination.
              Building a list and building a destination are not mutually exclusive. Sorry if my list-building approach conflicts with what you teach in your course.

              CNET may not need to build a list, but then again, I didn't have to spend several years putting out 500 page magazines on newsstands before launching my 'destination' site. Nor did I have to keep selling the 400+ pages of ads to support my overhead and printing costs...
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              • Profile picture of the author wolfmmiii
                Originally Posted by JohnMcCabe View Post

                Sorry if my list-building approach conflicts with what you teach in your course.
                No need to be sorry (or to take it personally). There isn't ONE right strategy. I'm just pointing out that "the list" isn't the be-all, end-all (as evidenced by CNET, my own sites, and many others).
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                • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
                  Originally Posted by wolfmmiii View Post

                  No need to be sorry (or to take it personally). There isn't ONE right strategy. I'm just pointing out that "the list" isn't the be-all, end-all (as evidenced by CNET, my own sites, and many others).
                  An acquaintance of mine who loves playing pickup basketball loves to say "no blood, no foul". I don't see any blood...

                  I'd say "more than one way to skin a cat", but the last time I did that on a public forum some whack job tried to sic those other PETA people on me. :rolleyes:
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              • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
                Banned
                Sorry that my approach also appears to conflict with yours. Different courses for different horses, I think.

                Most of my long-term income from affiliate marketing comes, collectively, in three ways ...

                (i) By branding myself, establishing credibility and trust as a "recommender" of products and services, to people who buy them on the strength of my recommendations because they trust me;

                (ii) By making repeated sales to the same customers, who trust me more and more every time they buy something I've recommended (because I never let them down or mislead them);

                (iii) By keeping traffic returning to the sales-page (because most people don't buy anything at their first visit, of course, so I need to have a way of keeping them coming back, which means "regular contact with them", which means opting them in).

                Without my lists, I can't do any of those three essential things, and I have a mortgage and bills to pay, so ... ... ...
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          • Profile picture of the author Globy
            Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

            Not if you see the primary purpose of your site as being to build your list: that takes away the time-pressure because you can effectively cookie them again later (of course it takes away some of the people, too, but as John's pointed out, you're starting off with far more visitors in the first place).

            You're also able to make repeated sales to the same people (which is where most of the money is, in affiliate marketing).



            No - they're not. But if you're trying to make affiliate sales without list-building, well, that's another matter altogether. And maybe they are, then.
            Thank you alexa for your contribution.

            So, what you suggest, for example in the case of "double camping pillows", is targeting for example the "camping equipment" niche in general and convert visitors to a mailing list.

            Then use this lists to sell "specific camping products" at a later point.

            Am i getting that right ?
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            • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
              Originally Posted by Globy View Post

              Thank you alexa for your contribution.

              So, what you suggest, for example in the case of "double camping pillows", is targeting for example the "camping equipment" niche in general and convert visitors to a mailing list.

              Then use this lists to sell "specific camping products" at a later point.

              Am i getting that right ?
              One look tells you I'm not Alexa, but I'd go one step further. I'd back up to "camping", or more likely some specific form of camping (like backpacking or canoe camping), and go from there to equipment as part of the (as it was put earlier) my 'destination' site.
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              • Profile picture of the author Globy
                Originally Posted by JohnMcCabe View Post

                One look tells you I'm not Alexa, but I'd go one step further. I'd back up to "camping", or more likely some specific form of camping (like backpacking or canoe camping), and go from there to equipment as part of the (as it was put earlier) my 'destination' site.
                One look tells you "Originally Posted by Alexa Smith" over my last quote.
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    • Profile picture of the author Globy
      Originally Posted by wolfmmiii View Post

      "double camping pillows" will bring in traffic that is "early" in the buying cycle.

      From AdWords:



      For reference:

      Using Specific Keywords to Increase Conversions - AdWords Certification Help
      You nailed it. That's exactly my concern Thomas.
      So, are you still doing the "brand new products" approach you suggested in your blueprint, or you target specific "product models" in general ?

      And what do u believe as "good exact mach" volume for a product to promote it?

      Thank you so much for sharing!
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      • Profile picture of the author wolfmmiii
        Originally Posted by Globy View Post

        You nailed it. That's exactly my concern Thomas.
        So, are you still doing the "brand new products" approach you suggested in your blueprint, or you target specific "product models" in general ?

        And what do u believe as "good exact mach" volume for a product to promote it?

        Thank you so much for sharing!
        I don't look at search volume metrics. I work under the assumption that most new products are going to have some sort of audience because they are new.
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        • Profile picture of the author Globy
          Originally Posted by wolfmmiii View Post

          I don't look at search volume metrics. I work under the assumption that most new products are going to have some sort of audience because they are new.
          wouldn't that depend on the niche? I mean, it makes sense for iPhones (everyone looks the new stuff), but no for "door knobs".

          Am i see that right ?
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          • Profile picture of the author wolfmmiii
            Originally Posted by Globy View Post

            wouldn't that depend on the niche? I mean, it makes sense for iPhones (everyone looks the new stuff), but no for "door knobs".

            Am i see that right ?
            Some niches are definitely better than others. I stick with stuff that people would typically prefer to research before buying. I wouldn't think door knobs would fit the criteria but who knows?
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            • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
              Originally Posted by wolfmmiii View Post

              Agreed. With a cookie duration of 24 hours though, this can be a tough task. You are basically counting on taking someone who is not yet ready to buy and running them through the entire cycle before he leaves your site (or, at least, hoping he comes back).
              It can be, true enough. I don't really worry about the cookie duration. What I really want is to get that person on my list so I can drip content on them that takes them step-by-step through the process. Each piece of content emailed links back to a product review or comparison on my website, which urges them to click through and buy.

              In some markets, especially those where I want people to buy a group of products to accomplish something, I'll encourage them to place each item in their shopping cart and delete the unnecessary or unwanted items before checking out. If I can do that, I turn the 24 hour cookie into a 90 day cookie.

              For example, I might write a series on tackling up for beach fishing snook. I'll go through rods, reels, line, lures, etc. At each point, I'll offer a 'good, better, best' recommendation and urge people to put their choice in the cart until the series is complete.

              This is working for me because it's an extension of the experience I offer in my syndicated articles, which tend to focus on earlier stages of the cycle. On the site and in the emails, I lead them down to purchases.

              If you're working with search traffic in the main, my approach definitely could be inefficient. It's not for everyone...
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              • Profile picture of the author Globy
                Originally Posted by JohnMcCabe View Post

                It can be, true enough. I don't really worry about the cookie duration. What I really want is to get that person on my list so I can drip content on them that takes them step-by-step through the process. Each piece of content emailed links back to a product review or comparison on my website, which urges them to click through and buy.

                In some markets, especially those where I want people to buy a group of products to accomplish something, I'll encourage them to place each item in their shopping cart and delete the unnecessary or unwanted items before checking out. If I can do that, I turn the 24 hour cookie into a 90 day cookie.

                For example, I might write a series on tackling up for beach fishing snook. I'll go through rods, reels, line, lures, etc. At each point, I'll offer a 'good, better, best' recommendation and urge people to put their choice in the cart until the series is complete.

                This is working for me because it's an extension of the experience I offer in my syndicated articles, which tend to focus on earlier stages of the cycle. On the site and in the emails, I lead them down to purchases.

                If you're working with search traffic in the main, my approach definitely could be inefficient. It's not for everyone...
                Good to know John. Amazing approach that requires patience and planing.
                thank you for sharing!
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        • Profile picture of the author butters
          Originally Posted by wolfmmiii View Post

          I don't look at search volume metrics. I work under the assumption that most new products are going to have some sort of audience because they are new.
          Just to add onto this, search the item in eBay and set it to number of most bids (Auction only) and see how many people are bidding on it. It's a good little indication if the product will actually sell or not.
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          • Profile picture of the author Globy
            Originally Posted by butters View Post

            Just to add onto this, search the item in eBay and set it to number of most bids (Auction only) and see how many people are bidding on it. It's a good little indication if the product will actually sell or not.
            Good point Butters. But would that work only for specific product names?
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            • Profile picture of the author butters
              Originally Posted by Globy View Post

              Good point Butters. But would that work only for specific product names?
              Sure but you need to know a product works before setting out to conquer broader keywords surrounding it
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  • Profile picture of the author charlier
    I think that long tail for example you noted: best double camping pillows , that will include the keyword double camping pillows and give you the benefit of both.
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    • Profile picture of the author Globy
      Originally Posted by charlier View Post

      I think that long tail for example you noted: best double camping pillows , that will include the keyword double camping pillows and give you the benefit of both.
      Good point charlier!
      So you are saying that the word "Best" could make up for the "buying keyword" we need. Am i getting this right ?
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  • Profile picture of the author Manoj V
    It also depends on the type of site you're building.

    If you have a review type of site, exact match keywords consisting of a product name will be very targeted and will result in good conversions. But like someone mentioned above this happens at an advanced stage in the buying cycle where a person has already decided to buy one or the other product and is searching for more details including reviews using product names. A product comparison would also be very apt at this juncture. Don't be too worried about the low search volume firstly because these figures are mere approximates and secondly because you will get a high conversion from such buyer keywords.

    If you do not have a review site and have one built with descriptive or how-to articles in a particular niche it may make sense to go for more general keywords like "double camping pillow". You would need to have a series of articles(3-5) which talk about different aspects in the niche and link to Amazon products at pertinent points within those articles.

    Alternatively you can also have an aStore within your site to which you link your articles. By doing this the visitor will become aware of your store containing products used in the niche and if you do provide good value through your articles, will surely feel obliged to purchase through the links in your aStore.
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    • Profile picture of the author Globy
      Originally Posted by Max P View Post

      It also depends on the type of site you're building.

      If you have a review type of site, exact match keywords consisting of a product name will be very targeted and will result in good conversions. But like someone mentioned above this happens at an advanced stage in the buying cycle where a person has already decided to buy one or the other product and is searching for more details including reviews using product names. A product comparison would also be very apt at this juncture. Don't be too worried about the low search volume firstly because these figures are mere approximates and secondly because you will get a high conversion from such buyer keywords.

      If you do not have a review site and have one built with descriptive or how-to articles in a particular niche it may make sense to go for more general keywords like "double camping pillow". You would need to have a series of articles(3-5) which talk about different aspects in the niche and link to Amazon products at pertinent points within those articles.

      Alternatively you can also have an aStore within your site to which you link your articles. By doing this the visitor will become aware of your store containing products used in the niche and if you do provide good value through your articles, will surely feel obliged to purchase through the links in your aStore.
      Thanx Max. Your points are solid. I believe we only have to choose which way we go. right?
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  • Profile picture of the author wolfmmiii
    As I mentioned to John...No need to apologize. There is more than one RIGHT way to do things. I'm not even saying list building is "bad", as you guys seem to assume.

    I'm simply saying that it is quite possible to do very well as an affiliate without a list. CNET and my own sites are just two of many examples I could cite.

    Just because YOU couldn't do it without a list doesn't mean others cannot.
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  • Profile picture of the author roblawrence
    I wouldn't put much stock in those keyword tools. Use common sense and ask yourself what your prospects would logically be searching for. If the keyword herd is going one way, go the other.
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  • Profile picture of the author TravisO
    Just stick with the "double camping pillows" keyboard. It sure has exact 5000 searches so this is really a big help for you. Do not try to put the specific name of the product.
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  • Profile picture of the author Globy
    Originally Posted by Top Website Guru View Post

    When I first created my niche sites to promote amazon products, I always focus on buying keywords for my domain names and even my contents optimization. This is the way to go if you want to promote amazon products.
    Is that still working for you?

    thanks for sharing..
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  • Profile picture of the author Jenna619
    I would stick to these as they are ready to buy...also make sure use kws with review and reviews in them too.
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