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igrowyourbiz 9th May 2013 08:29 PM

Do You Agree With Armand Morin's Statement "There are 2 ways to become successful, first you can..."
 
I Just got finished hearing Armand Morin say someone told him

THERE ARE ONLY TWO WAYS TO BECOME SUCCESSFUL

1) You can Be A Cowboy
(spend a long time and a lot of money trying to figure it out yourself)

2) You can Buy Your Way In
(pay someone who already is successful to show you how)

What do you think?:cool:

Why do you agree or disagree?

Joe R Piercey 9th May 2013 08:36 PM

Re: Do You Agree With Armand Morin's Statement "There are 2 ways to become successful, first you can
 
Disagree.

Option 3) - Utilize the knowledge/skills that you already possess (or that you can master very quickly) to create value.

netmatrix 9th May 2013 08:39 PM

Re: Do You Agree With Armand Morin's Statement "There are 2 ways to become successful, first you can
 
I suppose that depends on how you define success.

igrowyourbiz 9th May 2013 08:43 PM

Re: Do You Agree With Armand Morin's Statement "There are 2 ways to become successful, first you can
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe R Piercey (Post 8060815)
Disagree.

Option 3) - Utilize the knowledge/skills that you already possess (or that you can master very quickly) to create value.

\

How is that different from option 1?

Quote:

Originally Posted by netmatrix (Post 8060824)
I suppose that depends on how you define success.

good point...how do YOU define success??

Joe R Piercey 9th May 2013 08:53 PM

Re: Do You Agree With Armand Morin's Statement "There are 2 ways to become successful, first you can
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by igrowyourbiz (Post 8060842)

How is that different from option 1?

If you know your skills already you don't need to spend a "lot" of time and money...

tpw 9th May 2013 08:58 PM

Re: Do You Agree With Armand Morin's Statement "There are 2 ways to become successful, first you can
 
Agree.

1. Do it the hard way.

2. Open your ears and take instruction.

clever7 9th May 2013 09:10 PM

Re: Do You Agree With Armand Morin's Statement "There are 2 ways to become successful, first you can
 
I disagree.

You have to do both.

If you won't try to understand everything you can by yourself, you won't be able to understand what exactly you need to learn from a mentor, and your mentor may take advantage of your ignorance.

On the other hand, if you will try to learn everything by yourself by reading forum posts, blog posts, free ebooks, etc, you will delay a lot to learn everything you need.

You have to follow a few mentors and learn many different tactics that you will then implement if you want to go ahead faster.

Only one mentor won't teach you everything you need to know, or organize your business on your behalf.










stafford 9th May 2013 09:22 PM

Re: Do You Agree With Armand Morin's Statement "There are 2 ways to become successful, first you can
 
I'm going to agree and disagree.

If you're in the wrong market, you will never find success. It doesn't matter how long or hard you work or even who you pay to mentor you. Serving a market that doesn't resonate with you doesn't work. Your market will see right through you.

If you serve the market you're "intended" (for lack of a better word) to serve you will work towards success with or without a mentor.

I took time off from "being" a freelance writer to try my hand at "being" an internet marketer. It didn't work for me. It wasn't my market. It's not where I shine because I'm serving the wrong market.

As soon as I reclaimed my title of freelance writer, ghostwriter and paid blogger, I almost immediately started making money again---two years after I stepped away from that market. It's just who I am.

As for success, to me that isn't only about money. It's also about recognition and branding of the services you offer. For me that's being a writer, not a marketer. However, I'm very good at marketing my services as a writer, but not as a marketer. Go figure. lol

I've probably rattled on and it may only make sense to me, but that's what I think about it. Hope it made sense.

Great topic, by the way. Thanks for posting the question.

igrowyourbiz 9th May 2013 09:40 PM

Re: Do You Agree With Armand Morin's Statement "There are 2 ways to become successful, first you can
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe R Piercey (Post 8060859)
If you know your skills already you don't need to spend a "lot" of time and money...

how can you be "skilled" without having spent time and money to get that way?

Quote:

Originally Posted by stafford (Post 8060912)
I'm going to agree and disagree.

If you're in the wrong market, you will never find success. It doesn't matter how long or hard you work or even who you pay to mentor you. Serving a market that doesn't resonate with you doesn't work. Your market will see right through you.

If you serve the market you're "intended" (for lack of a better word) to serve you will work towards success with or without a mentor.

I took time off from "being" a freelance writer to try my hand at "being" an internet marketer. It didn't work for me. It wasn't my market. It's not where I shine because I'm serving the wrong market.

As soon as I reclaimed my title of freelance writer, ghostwriter and paid blogger, I almost immediately started making money again---two years after I stepped away from that market. It's just who I am.

As for success, to me that isn't only about money. It's also about recognition and branding of the services you offer. For me that's being a writer, not a marketer. However, I'm very good at marketing my services as a writer, but not as a marketer. Go figure. lol

I've probably rattled on and it may only make sense to me, but that's what I think about it. Hope it made sense.

Great topic, by the way. Thanks for posting the question.

TOTALLY AWESOME...authenticity...first with yourself, then with others...You are speaking my language now!

good stuff :cool:

MikeTucker 9th May 2013 09:42 PM

Re: Do You Agree With Armand Morin's Statement "There are 2 ways to become successful, first you can
 
M.) If I had it to do all over again, I would just marry someone
rich and be done with it. :cool:

igrowyourbiz 11th May 2013 02:43 AM

Re: Do You Agree With Armand Morin's Statement "There are 2 ways to become successful, first you can
 
lol mike -i guess thats one way to do it! That might count as "paying" someone in the end for what it may cost your soul...rofl

madison_avenue 11th May 2013 02:56 AM

Re: Do You Agree With Armand Morin's Statement "There are 2 ways to become successful, first you can
 
You should do the first the anyway. If you're not prepared to spend time and money on learning about business, you may as well get out of business as you will never be successful.

As to the second, you may pay someone a large amount of money to "show" you haw they did it, but it will not necessarily mean you will be successful too. There are too many factors. There are no short cuts.

Will Edwards 11th May 2013 03:24 AM

Re: Do You Agree With Armand Morin's Statement "There are 2 ways to become successful, first you can
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by igrowyourbiz (Post 8060800)
THERE ARE ONLY TWO WAYS TO BECOME SUCCESSFUL

1) You can Be A Cowboy
(spend a long time and a lot of money trying to figure it out yourself)

2) You can Buy Your Way In
(pay someone who already is successful to show you how)

Here's a couple more off the top of my head ...

3) You can be born into a privileged situation or position and become successful as a matter of birthright.

4) You can stumble across success - rare, but possible!

Will :eek:

igrowyourbiz 11th May 2013 04:28 AM

Re: Do You Agree With Armand Morin's Statement "There are 2 ways to become successful, first you can
 
no shortcuts indeed

lol @ will "stumble" into it?...yah, i think those are called lotter winners, they usually end up broke in the end. lol

Cobaki 11th May 2013 04:53 AM

Re: Do You Agree With Armand Morin's Statement "There are 2 ways to become successful, first you can
 
Well, i love Will's options 3 and 4. :D Anyway, I think you need those two to become successful. However, you shouldn't rely fully on one mentor because what works for him might not work for you.

markobrien 11th May 2013 05:15 AM

Re: Do You Agree With Armand Morin's Statement "There are 2 ways to become successful, first you can
 
I agree with those saying you need a bit of both.

ajbarnes777 11th May 2013 05:30 AM

Re: Do You Agree With Armand Morin's Statement "There are 2 ways to become successful, first you can
 
I would say both.

That being said, I've personally learned everything I know over the past 5 years through taking action, spending money, making mistakes, and repeating that process many times.

Don Schenk 11th May 2013 05:34 AM

Re: Do You Agree With Armand Morin's Statement "There are 2 ways to become successful, first you can
 
Pretend you want to own a restaurant, but you have zero knowledge about being in the restaurant restaruant business.

You can...

1. Be a cowboy, do it on your own, and learn the hard way.

2. Buy into a franchised restaurant chain where the franchise offers a proven system, and gives you the necessary training to make your restaurant successful.

And there is another...

3 - Go to work for a restaruant owner, or a restaurant franchise where you get the necessary training on the job, while being paid to do so. After a couple years start your own restaruant.

:-Don

nicelife 11th May 2013 05:51 AM

Re: Do You Agree With Armand Morin's Statement "There are 2 ways to become successful, first you can
 
Kind of Agree ...

I think it's very important to pay close attention to what the successful people are actually doing.


Sometimes there will of course be more to it than what meets the eye, but still I think this is important.

Young Financier 11th May 2013 06:41 AM

Re: Do You Agree With Armand Morin's Statement "There are 2 ways to become successful, first you can
 
Sounds to me like the author of that quote is just pitching an expensive coaching program.

SuperDJ 11th May 2013 07:57 AM

Re: Do You Agree With Armand Morin's Statement "There are 2 ways to become successful, first you can
 
There are thousands of ways to become 'successful' it all depends on what your definition of success is. Though since 99% of people see success purely in terms of monetary gain what is required to become successful for them will be different from what is required to become successful to me.

For me to become successful I need a couple things.

1) Integrity - Never going back on my word, staying true to myself and never compromising on my character for any 'offer'.
2) Peace - Being able to control my thoughts and state of mind a majority of the time. Stop comparing myself with other people based on age, race or education as I will only find others who are 'better' than me at what I do which will in-turn make me depressed.
3) Will-to-live - Giving it my very best to achieve whatever I am trying to achieve, having the inner inspiration to climb to the top of the mountain and to inspire at least one soul on the way.

There are plenty more, but I'll be here all day. :p

Claude Whitacre 11th May 2013 08:53 AM

Re: Do You Agree With Armand Morin's Statement "There are 2 ways to become successful, first you can
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Sean Tudor Carter (Post 8065093)
Sounds to me like the author of that quote is just pitching an expensive coaching program.

Someone Got It.

Whenever I attend an event by a Guru, I listen for the set up to sell coaching.
The best guys start the first hour and are setting up the coaching sale all the way through the event. Every question, poll, example, testimonial, is created to sell the idea of coaching.

That's what the OP question was. It's a false choice. And the question, and everything said around it, is designed to elicit "Just pay someone to teach you".

It's not a bad thing, it's just the way coaches pitch.
And coaching is the most profitable thing a Guru can sell.

This isn't a guess.

Will Edwards 11th May 2013 09:01 AM

Re: Do You Agree With Armand Morin's Statement "There are 2 ways to become successful, first you can
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by igrowyourbiz (Post 8064872)
lol @ will "stumble" into it?...yah, i think those are called lotter winners

Perhaps an example might help.

It is said that Percy Shaw, the inventor of the Cat's Eye, was driving one evening and his head lights were reflected by a cat. This gave him the idea for his invention from which he made millions.

Will :)

PS - If the cat had been facing the other way, perhaps he might have invented the pencil sharpener :eek:

HorstStreit 11th May 2013 09:02 AM

Re: Do You Agree With Armand Morin's Statement "There are 2 ways to become successful, first you can
 
Successful people are standing on the shoulders of giants.

Brandon19811 11th May 2013 09:14 AM

Re: Do You Agree With Armand Morin's Statement "There are 2 ways to become successful, first you can
 
I disagree with that statement. I would guess that the statement was made by a guy who wants to sell online training. He is likely trying to build a case for his product.

It is not being a cowboy that makes you successful. Nor, is it buying your way in that makes you successful. It is your customers that make you successful. If you want to be successful, ask people what they want and give it to them. It is really that easy.

travlinguy 11th May 2013 09:19 AM

Re: Do You Agree With Armand Morin's Statement "There are 2 ways to become successful, first you can
 
Everything is relative. There are too many factors involved for a clear cut answer.

Take this forum for example. One of the main problems with people trying to get started here is they aren't even asking the right questions. It's frightening how many threads are started where the OP's question relates to "upsetting" Google. That stuff is downright ridiculous.

There was a question here the other day from a guy wanting to know if it was okay to rewrite PLR for his blog. That question completely misses the point... the entire point of being in business in the first place. Why? Because it's about building relationships with people, not impressing Google bots. And certainly not having bloated, keyword rich PLR filler on your site to influence a search engine.

What works is to consistently provide excellent content for your visitors. That's it folks. Write good content and SEO takes care of itself. I've seen hundreds of sites that manage to get to page one of the SEs. But when you click to most of them the content sucks. There's nothing there to engage a visitor. So all the time and trouble spent on fancy SEO tricks has been wasted.

Getting back to the OP's question. I think finding someone who understands how to set up a real business based on community building and following their advice is the way to go, especially if you're new.

mrford 11th May 2013 09:47 AM

Re: Do You Agree With Armand Morin's Statement "There are 2 ways to become successful, first you can
 
If I'm new, I'd just buy my way in. This way you will save a lot of time and money trying to figure out what works and what doesn't work.

bangwhosnext 11th May 2013 09:53 AM

Re: Do You Agree With Armand Morin's Statement "There are 2 ways to become successful, first you can
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Will Edwards (Post 8065352)
Perhaps an example might help.

It is said that Percy Shaw, the inventor of the Cat's Eye, was driving one evening and his head lights were reflected by a cat. This gave him the idea for his invention from which he made millions.

Will :)

PS - If the cat had been facing the other way, perhaps he might have invented the pencil sharpener :eek:

Lol... very good.

mjones70 11th May 2013 10:07 AM

Re: Do You Agree With Armand Morin's Statement "There are 2 ways to become successful, first you can
 
I think one should do a little bit of both. It takes learning by experience and from someone who has been there, done that and can save you a lot of headaches down the road.

TopTier Profits 11th May 2013 10:13 AM

Re: Do You Agree With Armand Morin's Statement "There are 2 ways to become successful, first you can
 
Agree - as they say it's not what you know but who you know.

Example of this was recently their was a product launch done by the "in-laws" of one of the big gurus. The "guru" developed the product and got the JV's to promote under his in-laws name.

Result? The in-law banks a 6 figure payday and 7,000 buyers leads and the guru takes a chunk of the profits, plus profits from any future launch for "establishing" him in the community.

To cowboy that example would take a TON of planning and time whereas when you can get someone already successful to "buy you in" it happens in less than 2 months.

Crazy.

kindsvater 11th May 2013 10:16 AM

Re: Do You Agree With Armand Morin's Statement "There are 2 ways to become successful, first you can
 
The irony of someone being a cowboy so they can pitch others on paying the cowboy.

Is it me, or has the cowboy seemed increasingly desperate this last year?

.

igrowyourbiz 11th May 2013 04:54 PM

Re: Do You Agree With Armand Morin's Statement "There are 2 ways to become successful, first you can
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by HorstStreit (Post 8065354)
Successful people are standing on the shoulders of giants.

I agree, I don't know anyone truly successful who is not

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brandon19811 (Post 8065379)
It is your customers that make you successful. If you want to be successful, ask people what they want and give it to them. It is really that easy.

I know some folk looking for a rolls royce, can ou give it to them. I mean that is simple, but not easy. I don't know you, maybe you are in a much better position than I am...but my net worth is not enough to by a rolls royce franchise...ijs

asking people what they want is easy, having the ability to give it to them, not so much.

Quote:

Originally Posted by travlinguy (Post 8065388)
. There's nothing there to engage a visitor. So all the time and trouble spent on fancy SEO tricks has been wasted.

Getting back to the OP's question. I think finding someone who understands how to set up a real business based on community building and following their advice is the way to go, especially if you're new.

I LOVE IT! if more people were to spend time on PEOPLE or CUSTOMER optimization..there would be a lot more profits in peoples profits. And community building has always been the answer

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrford (Post 8065431)
If I'm new, I'd just buy my way in. This way you will save a lot of time and money trying to figure out what works and what doesn't work.

You are a wise individual


Quote:

Originally Posted by Will Edwards (Post 8065352)
If the cat had been facing the other way, perhaps he might have invented the pencil sharpener :eek:


BWAHAHAHAHAHAH WILL...I...just...can't....ROFL...YOU, my friend are hilarious

Quote:

Originally Posted by Josh Monroe (Post 8065484)

To cowboy that example would take a TON of planning and time whereas when you can get someone already successful to "buy you in" it happens in less than 2 months.

Crazy.

YOU ARE RIGHT, and it happens all the time. Been watching the warrior forum since 2000, became a member in 04. I could name names, but won't...but many a person who took the "guru" route, did it that way. It's funny, their old posts of them asking rookie questions, and complaining about not making money are long archived or gone in the WF, but you might be surprised who never could figure out how to make money, until someone jvd with them, and then literally overnight they were a "guru"

dbrwn 11th May 2013 05:41 PM

Re: Do You Agree With Armand Morin's Statement "There are 2 ways to become successful, first you can
 
Well for starters, not everyone has the money to buy in to success. Sure, the more money that you have, the better it will be for you, but not always.

There are a lot of things that you can learn for free that will make one successful. Just because something costs money doesn't mean that it will make you successful.

However, with more money you can buy more tools for your business, but then the question is; do you really need more tools?

The basics are all that one really needs to be successful online. You don't need all that fancy software that is supposed to let you click the mouse three times and money pops out of your machine because as we all know, that doesn't work anyhow.

The basics of Internet marketing are still valid and they still work such as building an opt in page, putting a product to go behind it and build your list by driving highly targeted traffic to the offer.

Sure you should listen to those who have already been there and done all of that because those are the people with experience.

alvinchua91 11th May 2013 07:33 PM

Re: Do You Agree With Armand Morin's Statement "There are 2 ways to become successful, first you can
 
You will actually learn more with #1, since you get to strengthen your discipline and find out how much you want it. #2 will be great if you can actually find someone worth.

igl0w 11th May 2013 07:38 PM

Re: Do You Agree With Armand Morin's Statement "There are 2 ways to become successful, first you can
 
Paying in is totally better.
He forgot abotu those that find stuff themselves that others buy without beein total cowboy and wasting time tho.

igrowyourbiz 11th May 2013 08:25 PM

Re: Do You Agree With Armand Morin's Statement "There are 2 ways to become successful, first you can
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by dbrwn (Post 8066448)

However, with more money you can buy more tools for your business, but then the question is; do you really need more tools?

I don't know of ANY highly successful person in any field that does not use tools to improve profitability...the right tools used the right way are invaluable.

Quote:

Originally Posted by alvinchua91 (Post 8066618)
You will actually learn more with #1, since you get to strengthen your discipline and find out how much you want it. #2 will be great if you can actually find someone worth.

The problem with trying to learn on your own, is you do not know the things you are ignorant about. You make silly mistakes and pay an ignorant tax for not even realizing you needed to know something.

Indeed, I agree with you that you must learn from the "right" person.

Lucila Harmuth 11th May 2013 08:40 PM

Re: Do You Agree With Armand Morin's Statement "There are 2 ways to become successful, first you can
 
I'm sure there are many ways than these two. Right business, teamwork, effective marketing, awesome admin support to boot and right mindset for starters.

TaraCarson 11th May 2013 08:47 PM

Re: Do You Agree With Armand Morin's Statement "There are 2 ways to become successful, first you can
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by igrowyourbiz (Post 8060800)
I Just got finished hearing Armand Morin say someone told him

THERE ARE ONLY TWO WAYS TO BECOME SUCCESSFUL

1) You can Be A Cowboy
(spend a long time and a lot of money trying to figure it out yourself)

2) You can Buy Your Way In
(pay someone who already is successful to show you how)

What do you think?:cool:

Why do you agree or disagree?

In the world of Internet marketing, there's also a #3...

3) Pretend you're popular and successful on the Internet so people will buy your books, thus making you popular and successful.

igrowyourbiz 12th May 2013 01:33 AM

Re: Do You Agree With Armand Morin's Statement "There are 2 ways to become successful, first you can
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Lucila Harmuth (Post 8066718)
I'm sure there are many ways than these two. Right business, teamwork, effective marketing, awesome admin support to boot and right mindset for starters.

THAT is an awesome combination, and necessary for high level of success. As someone who has done a ton of business and leadership training, I would dare say, those things are rarely, if ever "figured out on their own"...somewhere down the line, someone paid to discover and practice those things, especially as a combination.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TaraCarson (Post 8066739)
In the world of Internet marketing, there's also a #3...

3) Pretend you're popular and successful on the Internet so people will buy your books, thus making you popular and successful.



Bwahahaaha! I love it! well, i love the irony of your comment. it is a sad, but true fact.:o

CathyAnn 12th May 2013 07:25 AM

Re: Do You Agree With Armand Morin's Statement "There are 2 ways to become successful, first you can
 
Thinking about the coaching comments above...
I have two coaches in two different areas. I have learned a great deal from both. I don't regret having them at all. They've both cut my learning curve considerably.

That said... there is the time when you need to do what your coach says. Try it his or her way and then adapt as needed to suit you. You can find books and resources. Many people need to social aspect of coaching. Others do well with reading it in a book.

The key is perseverance and practice... but as the saying is revised... Perfect practice makes perfect. Many of us, me being one of them, needs someone to assist me in know exactly what worked for them and what may work for me if I apply it.

JohnMcCabe 12th May 2013 07:41 AM

Re: Do You Agree With Armand Morin's Statement "There are 2 ways to become successful, first you can
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Sean Tudor Carter (Post 8065093)
Sounds to me like the author of that quote is just pitching an expensive coaching program.

And he isn't the only one... ;):rolleyes:

Bunnytale 12th May 2013 08:15 AM

Re: Do You Agree With Armand Morin's Statement "There are 2 ways to become successful, first you can
 
Everything on your own.

igrowyourbiz 12th May 2013 08:50 AM

Re: Do You Agree With Armand Morin's Statement "There are 2 ways to become successful, first you can
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by CathyAnn (Post 8067750)
Thinking about the coaching comments above...
I have two coaches in two different areas. I have learned a great deal from both. I don't regret having them at all. They've both cut my learning curve considerably.

That said... there is the time when you need to do what your coach says. Try it his or her way and then adapt as needed to suit you. You can find books and resources. Many people need to social aspect of coaching. Others do well with reading it in a book.

The key is perseverance and practice... but as the saying is revised... Perfect practice makes perfect. Many of us, me being one of them, needs someone to assist me in know exactly what worked for them and what may work for me if I apply it.

Right Cathy,

It never ceases to amaze me how many people think they can do it alone...when NOTHING in life worthwhile, can be done with EXCELLENCE to its FULL POTENTIAL without some coaching.

Sure you can read a book, and start doing, but who would trust the airline pilot or surgeon who was self taught? no one...why? because they would not have ever had any CORRECTION, they would not know what bad habits or outright errors they had picked up.

Just like children can not raise themseelves and be HEALTHY, neither can one reach high level success.

Oh yeah, I am a coach, and not ashamed of it. I am expensive because I am darn good and worth every penny too! I have invested over a million dollars in my own personal development over the DECADES, a lot of it in coaching. It was all worth it.

Cowboys always like to tell otherwise, as if somehow being self taught has virtue...what society is full of self taught individuals? NONE!

They are full of snarky comments...just like most people who have never had education or personal development. In the end though, cowboys rarely reach the level those coached have (which without them even knowing it is usually the reason for being so bitter and snarky in the first place)...even when they do reach a measure of success, in an apples-to-apples comparison, they NEVER perform as well as one who was coached properly. And they most always are difficult people to deal with...again I could name names....lol

:cool:....my 2

Andyhenry 12th May 2013 10:08 AM

Re: Do You Agree With Armand Morin's Statement "There are 2 ways to become successful, first you can
 
I think it's stupid to put limits on the number of ways to become successful. Why create a false limit?

People have different versions of what success means.

scrofford 12th May 2013 10:26 AM

Re: Do You Agree With Armand Morin's Statement "There are 2 ways to become successful, first you can
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by igrowyourbiz (Post 8060800)
I Just got finished hearing Armand Morin say someone told him

THERE ARE ONLY TWO WAYS TO BECOME SUCCESSFUL

1) You can Be A Cowboy
(spend a long time and a lot of money trying to figure it out yourself)

2) You can Buy Your Way In
(pay someone who already is successful to show you how)

What do you think?:cool:

Why do you agree or disagree?

I guess I don't like the word "cowboy" when it comes to this subject. There are a lot of people who have taken the time to learn on their own and figure things out without paying someone and have been very successful.

To me the word "cowboy" relates to someone going off half-cocked. True, there are people who go that route, but not everyone, and I don't think that everyone should be put in just those two categories.

JohnMcCabe 12th May 2013 11:30 AM

Re: Do You Agree With Armand Morin's Statement "There are 2 ways to become successful, first you can
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Andyhenry (Post 8068097)
I think it's stupid to put limits on the number of ways to become successful. Why create a false limit?

People have different versions of what success means.

Because without the false limit, there might be another option besides "buy my coaching" and "failure". And if that's 'snarky', sign me up for the tee shirt.

I've nothing against coaching or coaches. I don't particularly care for this type of self-promotion wrapped up in pseudophilosophy.

igrowyourbiz 12th May 2013 11:54 AM

Re: Do You Agree With Armand Morin's Statement "There are 2 ways to become successful, first you can
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by scrofford (Post 8068142)
I guess I don't like the word "cowboy" when it comes to this subject. There are a lot of people who have taken the time to learn on their own and figure things out without paying someone and have been very successful.

To me the word "cowboy" relates to someone going off half-cocked. True, there are people who go that route, but not everyone, and I don't think that everyone should be put in just those two categories.

He probably could have used a better word. I think the principle presented is there are those who learn from others and those who do not. As one who is big on education, I do not see how anyone can learn TO THEIR FULL POTENTIAL without someone else pouring into them -whether they pay or not is another story. Like someone mentioned, some people are born into it -they inherit success...not so say it is given to them, but they grow up with teachers.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnMcCabe (Post 8068309)
Because without the false limit, there might be another option besides "buy my coaching" and "failure". And if that's 'snarky', sign me up for the tee shirt.

I've nothing against coaching or coaches. I don't particularly care for this type of self-promotion wrapped up in pseudophilosophy.

Snarky are the people who see evil ulterior motive in everything. Naturally because I am a coach, such statements stand out to me. And to Armand who also is a coach. Those who mindlessly wag their heads because of a natural affinity are the bitter snarks.

At no point did he say "buy my coaching or fail"...I don't think any coach worth his salt would ever say any such thing - expressly or implied. Though those who are averse to learning, jealous of those who make a living teaching others, or just bitter at their own lack of success will surely try to connect such non-existent dots.

I understand there are 5 key elements to attaining high level of success (in any area of life). They have been proven time and time again, getting coaching/mentoring is just one of them. There is a reason highly successful people all talk about those same 5 things...Top Doctors, Lawyers, Surgeons, Drivers, Pilots, CEOs etc...all walks of life, they all will share who their mentor/coach was --- and then there are those who are not reaching anywhere near their full potential - even if there is some success there...they snark about such things.

But such is life.:cool:

JohnMcCabe 12th May 2013 12:06 PM

Re: Do You Agree With Armand Morin's Statement "There are 2 ways to become successful, first you can
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by igrowyourbiz (Post 8068379)
At no point did he say "buy my coaching or fail"...I don't think any coach worth his salt would ever say any such thing - expressly or implied.

Neither you nor Armand is dumb enough to come out and say it that way. You're both much more subtle about it.

When the car salesman says "do you want the red car or the blue car", he implies that red or blue are the only options. When a coach implies that there are only two paths, the unsuccessful, difficult way of learning on one's own or the much easier, more effective way of purchasing coaching, they are doing the same thing. Then they follow it up with a (completely allowed) plug for a coaching program in a sig file.

I don't even disagree with trying to promote your program. Just be transparent about the motive.

Quote:

Originally Posted by igrowyourbiz (Post 8068379)
Though those who are averse to learning, jealous of those who make a living teaching others, or just bitter at their own lack of success will surely try to connect such non-existent dots.

And now you've used the same tactic to call me averse to learning, jealous of others' success and bitter about my own (assumed) lack of success. Nice job of trying to put me in my place... :rolleyes:

Andyhenry 12th May 2013 12:19 PM

Re: Do You Agree With Armand Morin's Statement "There are 2 ways to become successful, first you can
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnMcCabe (Post 8068409)
When a coach implies that there are only two paths, the unsuccessful, difficult way of learning on one's own or the much easier, more effective way of purchasing coaching, they are doing the same thing. Then they follow it up with a (completely allowed) plug for a coaching program in a sig file.

Have to agree with that. Framing it as a "do you like learning by paying for coaching, or are you just a loser" then posting a sig file selling coaching is not subtle, and then calling anyone who says it a negative snarky person is like making up a new religion and then saying anyone who points out a flaw in it is a devil worshipper.

igrowyourbiz 12th May 2013 11:51 PM

Re: Do You Agree With Armand Morin's Statement "There are 2 ways to become successful, first you can
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnMcCabe (Post 8068409)
Neither you nor Armand is dumb enough to come out and say it that way. You're both much more subtle about it.

When the car salesman says "do you want the red car or the blue car", he implies that red or blue are the only options. When a coach implies that there are only two paths, the unsuccessful, difficult way of learning on one's own or the much easier, more effective way of purchasing coaching, they are doing the same thing. Then they follow it up with a (completely allowed) plug for a coaching program in a sig file.

I don't even disagree with trying to promote your program. Just be transparent about the motive.



And now you've used the same tactic to call me averse to learning, jealous of others' success and bitter about my own (assumed) lack of success. Nice job of trying to put me in my place... :rolleyes:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andyhenry (Post 8068424)
Have to agree with that. Framing it as a "do you like learning by paying for coaching, or are you just a loser" then posting a sig file selling coaching is not subtle, and then calling anyone who says it a negative snarky person is like making up a new religion and then saying anyone who points out a flaw in it is a devil worshipper.

YOU GUYS ROCK!

I mean, wow...it is amazing, you have totally opened my eyes. how silly for me to quote someone else (I didn't say it)...how "selfish" of me to have a signature line with MY signature services???

Yes...indeed...if it weren't for sharp guys like you...where would this world be?:rolleyes:

THAT is sarcasm by the way...clearly you know little about me...I am not subtle about anything. If I want to say something, I don't have to sneak it.

But hey, if I mention that most folk are snarky cuz they are bitter, and you jump up and take offense because that remark resembles you...by all means, attack me for the truth you live.

Doesn't change the fact..>SOMEONE else who is a coach drew my interest for topic of conversation (what should I ask about, fishing? something I have no interest in? thats just silly now isn't it)

Don't hate me because you disagree, hate me because I am correct:cool:


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