Liberty Reserve Payment Processor Forced Offline

JohnV88

11 years ago

Thx for the post I just lost $122 I was about to widraw.

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mekdroid 11 years ago

Actually, you *might* be able to get your money back. According to the feds the legitimate users (not the crooks) will be allowed to withdraw their money ... eventually. It might be too much of a hassle, though.
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sbucciarel

Banned 11 years ago

Originally Posted by PerformanceMan

Being an alternative payment processor is a never easy.

Yeah, especially when you use your alternative payment processing company to launder money from your child pornography business and other illegal money laundering.

Digital currency biz Liberty Reserve shut down, founder arrested | VentureBeat

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PerformanceMan

11 years ago

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

Yeah, especially when you use your alternative payment processing company to launder money from your child pornography business and other illegal money laundering.

Digital currency biz Liberty Reserve shut down, founder arrested | VentureBeat

Or when you're already on the run from the U.S. for similar crimes.

Still, lots of innocent people will also money in this fiasco, as usual.

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mervp

11 years ago

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

Yeah, especially when you use your alternative payment processing company to launder money from your child pornography business and other illegal money laundering.

Digital currency biz Liberty Reserve shut down, founder arrested | VentureBeat

The site was shut down and the owner's property was seized with no lawful due process, let alone a verdict establishing guilt concerning any of the charges. No judge, no jury, no trial, no evidence, no charges, and you're accepting the press release libel of Liberty Reserve on face value? That's the same lame libel-and-loot method the US government has used the last umpteen times it has worked to shut down an independent processor.

The feds have simply stolen another domain and run off with its loot. Are we supposed to believe every one of the different sites it has gone after in this same lawless manner are all about laundering and child porn? Every time they shut down a site they don't like, they also throw out this same tired child porn, cybercrime canard. Would you like your sites to receive such a "Kim Dot Com" treatment? Is it okay for a mugger to rob you, then defame your character, if they're wearing a badge?

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sbucciarel

Banned 11 years ago

Originally Posted by mervp

The site was shut down and the owner's property was seized with no lawful due process, let alone a verdict establishing guilt concerning any of the charges. No judge, no jury, no trial, no evidence, no charges, and you're accepting the press release libel of Liberty Reserve on face value? That's the same lame libel-and-loot method the US government has used the last umpteen times it has worked to shut down an independent processor.

The feds have simply stolen another domain and run off with its loot. Are we supposed to believe every one of the different sites it has gone after in this same lawless manner are all about laundering and child porn? Every time they shut down a site they don't like, they also throw out this same tired child porn, cybercrime canard. Would you like your sites to receive such a "Kim Dot Com" treatment? Is it okay for a mugger to rob you, then defame your character, if they're wearing a badge?

Yeah ... right. He's an innocent victim of both US and Costa Rican authorities and he never used LR to launder anything except clothing. :rolleyes:

As for Kim Dotcom, yet another innocent victim. All he ever did was facilitate the massive theft of intellectual property. I mean, why should anyone have to pay for music and movies?

My sites don't violate laws. Period. I feel bad only for those who used the unregulated money site for legal purposes and have lost money.

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mervp

11 years ago

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

My sites don't violate laws. Period. I feel bad only for those who used the unregulated money site for legal purposes and have lost money.

The US abused due process and jurisdictional limits. Period. It bullied Costa Rica into acting to give it cover in stealing a domain and its assets. Also Period. Until jury says a site violated laws, it's innocent of violating laws.

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Kay King 11 years ago

Until jury says a site violated laws, it's innocent of violating laws.

Don't know where you live but the arguments are silly. Of course you need legal due process - but first there's an arrest and THEN a trial by jury. That's how it works.

Liberty Reserve makes "not licensed" part of it's promotion - but it's not licensed because even Costa Rica refused to license it. The days when you can shift money anonymously online are limited. LR is closely associated with Forex - just a thought about where the law might go next. It has also been part of BitCoin payment options. Not saying those businesses would be a target - but they could be affected by loss of LR and several other transfer businesses that have also been closed.
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sbucciarel

Banned 11 years ago

Originally Posted by mervp

The US abused due process and jurisdictional limits. Period. It bullied Costa Rica into acting to give it cover in stealing a domain and its assets. Also Period. Until jury says a site violated laws, it's innocent of violating laws.

If you don't like laws and regulations, perhaps you should find a country that doesn't have them to live in. Personally, I'm glad they shut it down. This wasn't just the US. It was agencies in 17 countries.

The operators of what the authorities described as one of the world's largest online money laundering organizations, a central hub for criminals trafficking in everything from stolen identities to child pornography, were charged in an indictment unsealed by federal prosecutors on Tuesday.

The organization, Liberty Reserve, was responsible for laundering over $6 billion over the last seven years, with millions of customers around the world, according to the indictment. Prosecutors said that the company "facilitated global criminal conduct" and that the case, which involved law enforcement agencies in 17 countries, is believed to be the largest international money laundering prosecution in history.

The charges detailed a complicated system designed to allow people to move sums of money both large and small around the world with virtual anonymity, according to a three-count indictment announced by the United States attorney's office in Manhattan.

"This was really PayPal for criminals," a senior law enforcement official said, calling the company and a system of related businesses "a shadow banking system for criminal conduct" that was "able to facilitate all sorts of criminal conduct that would not otherwise happen."

The indictment charges seven of the company's principals and employees. Five of them were arrested Friday in Spain, Costa Rica and Brooklyn.

"Liberty Reserve was in fact used extensively for illegal purposes, functioning in effect as the bank of choice for the criminal underworld," the indictment states.

Liberty Reserve, an online currency exchange, has surfaced as a preferred vehicle to transfer money between parties in a number of recent high-profile cybercrimes, including the indictment of eight New Yorkers for their role in looting $45 million from bank machines in 27 countries.

Liberty Reserve was incorporated in Costa Rica in 2006 by Arthur Budovsky, who renounced his United States citizenship in 2011, and was arrested in Spain on Friday.

More Here: http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/29/ny...anted=all&_r=0

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mervp

11 years ago

So long as there is legitimate demand in the market for privacy and anonymity in financial transactions, there will be alternative processors and currencies to meet it. I dislike seeing every iteration of attempts to meet this legitimate market demand defamed as "criminal" by control freak governments. Not every nation requires licensing, and using an unregulated processor is a choice free adults should be able to make, at their own risk or benefit.

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lalit657

11 years ago

I know some people who really got hurted regarding this issue...it is really bad from usa..atleast they will provide the user some specific amt of time so that they can withdrawn their money back...i want to know..if liberty reserve never come back then what will happen to thir 43 million deposit...?????

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mervp

11 years ago

"Prosecutors said that the company “facilitated global criminal conduct” and that the case, which involved law enforcement agencies in 17 countries, is believed to be the largest international money laundering prosecution in history."

Meaning, the US leaned hard on 17 different countries to give it cover for conducting its illegal extrajudicial shutdown of LR, not just Costa Rica. So 5% of the world's population can bully the other 95%.

Meanwhile, no one is facing any prosecution or investigation over LIBOR, credit-default swaps, or mortgage-backed securites scandals the banksters have conducted for years, involving hundreds of billions to trillions of dollars, on up. More money for the banksters, no alternatives for the people.

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PerformanceMan

11 years ago

This is the largest ever international money laundering bust, at a staggering $6 billion!

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SunilTanna

11 years ago

Here are the legal documents, indictments and the like, if anybody is interested.

INDICTMENT & SUPPORTING DOCUMENTS: U.S. v. Liberty Reserve, et al.

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writeaway

11 years ago

What will prevent people who use such services from shifting to bitcoins/litecoins and other forms of anonymous digital currency

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OnlineAddict

11 years ago

The US bankers just don't like when people move money outside of their scammy bank system...they hate anonymity as the goal is to control every single penny.

The people who say they don't care as they have nothing to hide...you will see that you have something to hide, just now its nothing...later it may be something and then it will be too late. The smarter ones will understand.

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LastingLifeSuccess 11 years ago

This mess and others like it have chilling effects on the Internet as a whole I feel.

These kind of events cause me to wonder how the Internet will evolve.
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AMiRU

11 years ago

Anonymity, US never likes something that they can't trace.. That's why they've always try to bring down LR and now they did it. Bye bye hundreds of dollars of my hardly earn money!

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sbucciarel

Banned 11 years ago

Originally Posted by AMiRU

Bye bye hundreds of dollars of my hardly earn money!

Some typos are just too funny to pass up. :p

Originally Posted by LastingLifeSuccess

This mess and others like it have chilling effects on the Internet as a whole I feel.

These kind of events cause me to wonder how the Internet will evolve.

Hmmm. Maybe it will evolve in an honest marketplace that criminals can't operate in with impunity. Don't worry though. Criminals are persistent. They'll find another way to accept payment for their drugs, child porn, hacking services and other criminal endeavors.

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OnlineAddict

11 years ago

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

Hmmm. Maybe it will evolve in an honest marketplace that criminals can't operate in with impunity. Don't worry though. Criminals are persistent. They'll find another way to accept payment for their drugs, child porn, hacking services and other criminal endeavors.

Don't worry, the biggest criminals already found another way and they have been using it for ages, the big banks, who enjoy launder their money. They just don't like the small guys doing it.

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Tom Reed

11 years ago

Creating an alternate monetary system is placing a monster sized target on your back.

The "laundering" excuse is always used, maybe accurate, maybe not, but what currency is used to launder more money, perform more drug deals, globally than any other? You don't see that currency shut down.

We can all argue the merits of the actions 1 way or the other but in the end, avoid the currency business as it always seems to end the same.

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espresso

11 years ago

I just saw this on the news
I had an account with them and am trying to remember if I had any money currently in my account
If I did it was only like $5 or so

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mervp

11 years ago

The Empire has struck back, but there is a New Hope:

http://ripple.com

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espresso

11 years ago

The report is on the news again
I am a user of the site
But according to the map of users
My country inst highlighted

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wmwoodie

11 years ago

Oh darn!!! I did not know. I hardly ever use them anymore but I think I have (well, used to have I guess) a hundred bucks or so still sitting in there. Foolish me to leave it just sitting around. Is like the old saying goes, "Use it, or lose it!" But, thanks for the post.
~ wmw

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cypherslock

11 years ago

Gotta say, if the child pornography bit is true then fry them! Anything to do with kids just makes me see red.

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kindsvater

11 years ago

Yet another example of why everyone engaged in online commerce must comply with US law.

Only the US is taking these actions worldwide, against individuals and business located in other counties, simply because someone in the US signed up to use their services.

Why stop at Liberty Reserve? Indict the governments of North Korea and Iran. There is always a US connection somewhere. What about dictators with billions in stolen money squirreled away in numerous banks with US connections? Send in the troops and lets go get em! The Russian mafia? Oooh, seizing Liberty Reserve is a cool way to get account information of users for more criminal investigations!

The IRS is probably pouring over account information right now.

Wasn't Liberty Reserve widely available on Google? Yes, Google was intentionally acting as a service promoting Liberty Mutual, allowing it to be found by drug smugglers in Peru. Shut it down.

Face it: the US controls dot coms and if the fed wants to seize a domain it can. No other country in the world can do this.

.

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sbucciarel

Banned 11 years ago

Originally Posted by OnlineAddict

Don't worry, the biggest criminals already found another way and they have been using it for ages, the big banks, who enjoy launder their money. They just don't like the small guys doing it.

While the big banks have a lot of misconduct to answer for, ones engaged in intentional money laundering are few. They do have anti-money laundering security in place, which of course, Liberty Reserve did not. In fact, Costa Rica denied their application for a license twice because of no anti-money laundering security in place.

After being denied to operate legally in Costa Rica, they then told Costa Rica that they sold the site and were no longer operating in Costa Rica. Of course, it was a lie and they were operating illegally and unlicensed in Costa Rica.

Originally Posted by kindsvater

Yet another example of why everyone engaged in online commerce must comply with US law.

Only the US is taking these actions worldwide, against individuals and business located in other counties, simply because someone in the US signed up to use their services.

Why stop at Liberty Reserve? Indict the governments of North Korea and Iran. There is always a US connection somewhere. What about dictators with billions in stolen money squirreled away in numerous banks with US connections? Send in the troops and lets go get em! The Russian mafia? Oooh, seizing Liberty Reserve is a cool way to get account information of users for more criminal investigations!

The IRS is probably pouring over account information right now.

Wasn't Liberty Reserve widely available on Google? Yes, Google was intentionally acting as a service promoting Liberty Mutual, allowing it to be found by drug smugglers in Peru. Shut it down.

Face it: the US controls dot coms and if the fed wants to seize a domain it can. No other country in the world can do this.

.

Liberty Reserve had over 200,000 US "customers". An undercover agent was able to establish a Liberty Reserve account using the alias "Joe Bogus," listing his address as "123 Fake Main Street" in "Completely Made Up City, New York.

Is this actually the kind of customer you want buying your products?

Not me. I've had numerous requests from people who wanted to buy my products via Liberty Reserve. All I would have to do is open an account with them. I always thought the service stunk to high heaven and refused.

So, what are you saying Brian. You're against fighting crime? lol. Must be a defense lawyer. :p

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espresso

11 years ago

Originally Posted by kindsvater

Yet another example of why everyone engaged in online commerce must comply with US law.

Only the US is taking these actions worldwide, against individuals and business located in other counties, simply because someone in the US signed up to use their services.

Why stop at Liberty Reserve? Indict the governments of North Korea and Iran. There is always a US connection somewhere. What about dictators with billions in stolen money squirreled away in numerous banks with US connections? Send in the troops and lets go get em! The Russian mafia? Oooh, seizing Liberty Reserve is a cool way to get account information of users for more criminal investigations!

The IRS is probably pouring over account information right now.

Wasn't Liberty Reserve widely available on Google? Yes, Google was intentionally acting as a service promoting Liberty Mutual, allowing it to be found by drug smugglers in Peru. Shut it down.

Face it: the US controls dot coms and if the fed wants to seize a domain it can. No other country in the world can do this.

.

and this from a country that has refused to sign up to the International Court Of Justice
We should not have to accept the idea of the US controlling the internet

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carnal

11 years ago

I saw it coming, Liberty Reserve was heavily used by lots of con artists. I am actually glad they have shut it down.

HYIP scammers used this e-currency like crazy, they scammed millions of innocent people thanks to Liberty Reserve.

Good news is, I did not have any money on my LR account.

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Rbtmarshall

11 years ago

heres the best part of that article. from the looks of it, this investigator is the average bitcoin user.

An undercover investigator was able to register using the name "Joe Bogus" and the address "123 Fake Main Street" in "Completely Made Up City, New York," and then conduct transactions he recorded as "ATM skimming network" and "for the cocaine".

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sbucciarel

Banned 11 years ago

Originally Posted by Rbtmarshall

heres the best part of that article. from the looks of it, this investigator is the average bitcoin user.

Bitcoin, being another anonymous digital currency is another tender that I don't want to deal with. I'm not interested in most of the products that can be purchased with bitcoin.

The Underground Website Where You Can Buy Any Drug Imaginable

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bluecoyotemedia

11 years ago

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

Bitcoin, being another anonymous digital currency is another tender that I don't want to deal with. I'm not interested in most of the products that can be purchased with bitcoin.

The Underground Website Where You Can Buy Any Drug Imaginable

Sbucciarel

you know what funny

your picture blends in perfectly to the products you dont have any interest in LOL

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espresso

11 years ago

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

Bitcoin, being another anonymous digital currency is another tender that I don't want to deal with. I'm not interested in most of the products that can be purchased with bitcoin.

The Underground Website Where You Can Buy Any Drug Imaginable

You can buy drugs online but will they actually be delivered to you is the question

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sbucciarel

Banned 11 years ago

Originally Posted by bluecoyotemedia

Sbucciarel

you know what funny

your picture blends in perfectly to the products you dont have any interest in LOL

I could say the same about yours, but if you think amusing fake avatars are an indication of drug use, then there's a bunch of us here.

Originally Posted by espresso

You can buy drugs online but will they actually be delivered to you is the question

Did you read the article?
The Underground Website Where You Can Buy Any Drug Imaginable

Yes, they are delivered and cleverly disguised so that if you were not expecting it, you wouldn't even know there were drugs in the packet.

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espresso

11 years ago

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

I could say the same about yours, but if you think amusing fake avatars are an indication of drug use, then there's a bunch of us here.

Did you read the article?
The Underground Website Where You Can Buy Any Drug Imaginable

Yes, they are delivered and cleverly disguised so that if you were not expecting it, you wouldn't even know there were drugs in the packet.

I dont know about the US but here we have sniffer dogs at the airport checking post coming in

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sbucciarel Banned 11 years ago

Originally Posted by espresso

I dont know about the US but here we have sniffer dogs at the airport checking post coming

Read the article. Drugs are freely bought, sold and delivered from Silk Road. I've read numerous articles about Silk Road. Gawker was one of the first to break a story about the site and traffic increased significantly after that article.

They advise you on Silk Road to vacuum seal your packages to avoid odors, according to the article.
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- Kay King 11 years ago
  
  Since the war on drugs should be ended and the drug laws are unconstitutional
  
  That's your idea of sunshine and rainbows? I find that offensive as sunshine and rainbows are nature's beauty. They are as far removed from the drug trade and anonymous cash transactions as one can get.
  
  I'd have no problem ending the "war on drugs" if you let all the serious drug users gather to live in one place - with no support having to be provided by the rest of us.
  
  In the past, the most common question here about Liberty Reserve has been how to transfer money in and out of LR from Paypal. That doesn't fit with the "they were just doing business" excuses.
  
  The factual news about shutting down LR say those who are not involved in illegal money transfers will be able to file claims to recoup their funds.
  
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  sbucciarel Banned 11 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by Kay King
  
  The factual news about shutting down LR say those who are not involved in illegal money transfers will be able to file claims to recoup their funds.
  
  This is what I read also. Legitimate accounts used for legal purposes should be able to recover their money.
  
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mervp

11 years ago

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

Bitcoin, being another anonymous digital currency is another tender that I don't want to deal with. I'm not interested in most of the products that can be purchased with bitcoin.

Since the war on drugs should be ended and the drug laws are unconstitutional, the drugs shown in the image were falsely criminalized to begin with. If you want to not use a pro-anonymity processor, that is your liberty right. If others want to use such a processor, that is THEIR liberty right. Let's not play control freak on other people's freedoms. Sunshine and rainbows, please?

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sbucciarel

Banned 11 years ago

Originally Posted by mervp

Since the war on drugs should be ended and the drug laws are unconstitutional, the drugs shown in the image were falsely criminalized to begin with. If you want to not use a pro-anonymity processor, that is your liberty right. If others want to use such a processor, that is THEIR liberty right. Let's not play control freak on other people's freedoms. Sunshine and rainbows, please?

Maybe where you live, but in the US there are laws and regulations both against unlicensed, anonymous money services and illegal drugs. There is no constitutional right to buy and sell illicit drugs. But you are so pro-criminal, I don't really expect an intelligent argument from you.

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mervp

11 years ago

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

Maybe where you live, but in the US there are laws and regulations both against unlicensed, anonymous money services and illegal drugs. There is no constitutional right to buy and sell illicit drugs. But you are so pro-criminal, I don't really expect an intelligent argument from you.

I am pro-liberty, you are pro-authoritarian, since you treat intelligent arguments you disagree with as "pro-criminal." Rights not enumerated by the Constitution shall not be construed to be denied to the people (9th amendment). So people do have a right to ingest whatever, or choose to use anonymous processors, at their own risk or benefit. Sunshine and rainbows means tolerating other people's choices.

The US Constitution does not give the federal government the power to ban drugs. It took a constitutional amendment to make alcohol illegal, and even that was later reversed. So if even alcohol prohibition required an amendment to have legal force, where does drug prohibition get its constitutional justification from? NO WHERE. The drug laws are unconstitutional.

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sbucciarel

Banned 11 years ago

Originally Posted by mervp

I am pro-liberty, you are pro-authoritarian,
.....
So if even alcohol prohibition required an amendment to have legal force, where does drug prohibition get its constitutional justification from? NO WHERE. The drug laws are unconstitutional.

I like living in a society that has some amount of law and order. You don't. Sounds like you would just let criminals run amok and do as they will do, racking up countless victims in the process all for the Libertarian cause.

I wouldn't let those silly little drug laws bother you. Most drug users ignore them. Again, there's no constitutional right to use, buy and sell illicit drugs and there are laws in the US against it. Show me the amendment that says drugs are a constitutional right. :p

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Kay King 11 years ago

That's not a Libertarian cause - it's narcissism.

Problem is - people who insist they have the "right" to do anything they want whenever they want with no interference imposed by laws or society.....are the ones who expect society to support their lifestyle, pay their rent, buy their food and provide medical care when they OD.

I'm up to here with those people who think their "rights" involve other people paying for them. If you can support yourself AND your own drug habit without taking advantage of other people - go for it.
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bluecoyotemedia

11 years ago

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

I like living in a society that has some amount of law and order. You don't. Sounds like you would just let criminals run amok and do as they will do, racking up countless victims in the process all for the Libertarian cause.

I wouldn't let those silly little drug laws bother you. Most drug users ignore them. Again, there's no constitutional right to use, buy and sell illicit drugs and there are laws in the US against it. Show me the amendment that says drugs are a constitutional right. :p

Sbucciarel

here is the problem

John Adams stated: Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other

hence the problem with freedom

freedom cannot be had without morality. they go hand in hand

so the word freedom is thrown around like a sound bite and that is how most of the population consumes thier actionable information via soundbites.

our society at large is so detached from reality

they pick actors as the most trusted people in america

What Is Trust: The 100 Most Trusted People in America | Reader's Digest

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espresso

11 years ago

I am also in favour of legalising/decriminalising drugs as well as other vices
Governments are too shared to touch the issue though

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John Son

11 years ago

i read this news 2 days back. But it wasn't a real form of currency by no means. They were mainly used by scammers and by some forex brokers.

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Super Warrior

11 years ago

Well, closure of Liberty Reserve will definitely affect hundreds of businesses online especially in those countries where a payment processor like PayPal is not available.
I don't know what will happen in court and will LR be back (I highly doubt it).
I lost my $450 and I know, it won't come back

Thanks
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Kay King

11 years ago

I lost my $450

According to what has been officially said on this matter, those who had money in LR and were not involved in illegal trade can apply to get their money back. There are funds that will be reimbursed to users. It may take some time - but you may well be able to recoup your funds.

Thanks
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TheCLPro

11 years ago

Originally Posted by Kay King

According to what has been officially said on this matter, those who had money in LR and were not involved in illegal trade can apply to get their money back. There are funds that will be reimbursed to users. It may take some time - but you may well be able to recoup your funds.

Good luck to them. IF they get any money back it will be a FRACTION of what they had in. This is just how it goes. I remember a few "Paid to Surf" sites and New Online Payment Processors that went through this same type of shut down, and users were never fully reimbursed the total amount they had in.. Many were never reimbursed at all.

Thanks

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Smith18

11 years ago

Sucks for people who use this for doing business or people who had money sitting in there. I myself never used Liberty Reserve for any transactions, however I do know some people that may be affected by this, as LR was their main payment processor for personal payments.

Thanks

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Liberty Reserve Payment Processor Forced Offline

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