Where to find full time writers from the Philippines?

[Solidsnake]

Originally Posted by Wonderbaum

For years I've listen to guys like Jeff Johnson and John Jonas talking about outsourcing to the Philippines but when I try to find the services offering these solutions I have very little luck.

I know of the service AgentsOfValue but that is about it. Jeff and John talk about hiring people for as little as $2-300 per month

If you know of some of the places to find good Philippine writers please share

Thanks,
Mikael

Mike,

It seems I am late to see this thread... let me konow if you still need and I can be a big help... I have 3 writers under me doing some freelance at GAF...

Craigslist on the other hand is unreliable... let me know

Thanks,
Raden

[Wonderbaum]

Originally Posted by Dana_W

I absolutely think that you should hold out for decent pay. And generally speaking even when I am outsourcing to the Philippines I find that when I pay on the high end of the local pay scale, I get better work.

I'm definitely not out to cut prices but I'm not going to be a sucker either and let agencies take 3 times the amount that they actually pay their writers (and many do just that). At least AOV were honest when I asked them how much they kept for themselves and how much they actually paid their writers.

So after reading a bunch of articles, posts and comments I've find that the right price to pay a "novice writer" is somewhere between $300-$400 per month for a full time job.

For experience writers it might be more, but then you wouldn't have to teach them much of what to do.

[Wonderbaum]

Originally Posted by Solidsnake

Mike,

It seems I am late to see this thread... let me konow if you still need and I can be a big help... I have 3 writers under me doing some freelance at GAF...

Craigslist on the other hand is unreliable... let me know

Thanks,
Raden

Just sent you a PM.

[Ciaran Doyle]

Hi,

I am currently writing up a job description for a job i need filled. I am using a place called bestjobs.ph

It seems to be really good and have heard great things about it

Hope this helps

[Solidsnake]

Originally Posted by Wonderbaum

I'm definitely not out to cut prices but I'm not going to be a sucker either and let agencies take 3 times the amount that they actually pay their writers (and many do just that). At least AOV were honest when I asked them how much they kept for themselves and how much they actually paid their writers.

So after reading a bunch of articles, posts and comments I've find that the right price to pay a "novice writer" is somewhere between $300-$400 per month for a full time job.

For experience writers it might be more, but then you wouldn't have to teach them much of what to do.

I think you need to be more specific Mike... When you say "Full Time" that would consume 8 hours per day for 5 days a week... and I am not really sure about the load of work...

[Wonderbaum]

Originally Posted by Solidsnake

I think you need to be more specific Mike... When you say "Full Time" that would consume 8 hours per day for 5 days a week... and I am not really sure about the load of work...

Hi Raden, yes full time equals 160 hours per month as I see it.

Thanks.

[JustinBrooke]

Originally Posted by MaggieDavid

Hi Mikael,

I know of people who employ people from the Philippines and the way they got them was to put a job ad in Craigslist.org Manilla.

They then send you their resume and you cull and employ. Now that is not to say that you won't have to fire if the person is not good, but I have been told, trial and error can get the best.

Hope this Helps.

That is some super killer advice Maggie. Must be some smart people you're associating yourself with. ;-)

[my_addict_mind]

What is so ridiculouos about $400-600 for a full-time Filipino VA. I for one pay a Filipina linkbuilder I discovered in oDesk for $6 per hour. If you want quality, you have to pay a premium. Think about it, $6 is still ridiculously cheap in the U.S. for a job Americans hate to do.

Originally Posted by templarjustice

Sorry buddy. It's been stated by many, many people that there are people that are highly qualified in the $200 - $300 (USD) per month salary range.
What you are stating at $400 - $600 per month is absolutely ridiculous. If what you were stating were true, then anyone from the Phillipines would not have any jobs, given that people would take a part-time U.S. based person & get 2 or 4 people part-time U.S. based people at the same rate.

What people must first do is understand conversion rates. Just go to Currency Converter on a google search & do a proper conversion. Then understand what the typical rates for services/products are in that local country. It is extremely a disservice if you give a abnormal or higher than expected rate & also have to train that provider to do the work you need them to do. The disservice comes when & if they lose the job you gave them, & they are banking on the High income you had provided. Then that person can't live on the living wages you created. It's best that all people start at a lower wage & provide quality service & then work to grow w/ that person. It is up to BUYERS of services to go in knowing that they need resourcers at a lower wage, but BUDGET for the future at a higher wage. We as a people need to get back to paying for performance. IMHO, service providers have become lazy and also do shortcuts in doing there work. Everyone is trying to do MORE vs. providing a quality product. Look at where the world is now....

[Fabian Tan]

Originally Posted by Wonderbaum

I'm definitely not out to cut prices but I'm not going to be a sucker either and let agencies take 3 times the amount that they actually pay their writers (and many do just that). At least AOV were honest when I asked them how much they kept for themselves and how much they actually paid their writers.

So after reading a bunch of articles, posts and comments I've find that the right price to pay a "novice writer" is somewhere between $300-$400 per month for a full time job.

For experience writers it might be more, but then you wouldn't have to teach them much of what to do.

I agree with that.

The fallacy that you pay more and get better quality ALL the time is what gets people overpaying for the work they get.

Fabian

[Cerebral Studios]

Im really glad to see all this discussion of outsourcing work jobs here in the philippines, our group would be setting up an BPO company providing writting, graphics design to video presentations specifically for internet marketers. We wont be based in Manila, the country's capital, but instead a major city up north, primarly to reduce cost and tap into a fresher talent pool. I hope we can give you a competitive price, well be up and running in a week or two.

thanks

[templarjustice]

$6 per hour vs. a set fee of $400 - $600 per month is completely different.
This is what people need to understand. If you hire someone on an hourly basis, you really can't quantify a deliverable. However, at a monthly set amount, you can more easily quantify a set project deliverable.
On the hourly basis, if the project is taking too long, you can just stop the project & wait. Your future costs can rise dramatically.
The other thing is, I think a major problem is that people always equate
Quality with Dollar Amount. In my opinion, Quality should be the number one goal bar none. Cause if you are always thinking "well, since I'm not getting paid highly, then I can only give half-way work." If that's the mindset, then your always liable to be a half-way person.
When I interview, I look for the drive & passion in a person. I interview hard, ask really hard questions. I may go through 80 people in a week. But ya know what, there is always a diamond in a rough. And when I get that diamond for my needs paying below market prices given the fact that I would be in a start-up phase, then everyone wins.
That's another thing that you people need to realize. 99% of you all, are going to be either in start-up mode or mid-launch mode. Only 1% are actually established & have the funds to expend freely. So, every dime counts. On the service side, there is always business if you provide non-stop quality work regardless of what you are being paid. On the other end of the spectrum, businesses need the ability to take the services you performed and get a return from it. So, as a service provider, I would hope that your goal is to help the buyer produce a return. I mean, that's why people in "REAL CORPORATIONS" are hired anyway.....to boost returns.

So, yes, $400-$600 for a full-time Filipino VA is a ridiculous amount to pay. It's your job to train them & provide direction as well as manage the project at the end of the day.

Originally Posted by my_addict_mind

What is so ridiculouos about $400-600 for a full-time Filipino VA. I for one pay a Filipina linkbuilder I discovered in oDesk for $6 per hour. If you want quality, you have to pay a premium. Think about it, $6 is still ridiculously cheap in the U.S. for a job Americans hate to do.

[templarjustice]

Fabian,

You are absolutely right. People do others a disservice when they pay higher rates & think they are getting a better service.
For any higher rate of service, a service provider needs to have EXCEPTIONAL differentiation & must be able to not only explain
1.) Why they are better.
2.) What ELSE they are offering in addition to the project details already given by the buyer
3.) And guarantees of service.

If they are "that good," they should be able to give up something for the job.
In the end, both sides however, I think need better communication skills to provide better project management on what a project deliverable should be.
But definitely, I absolutely agree that higher rates does not mean better service at all.

Originally Posted by Fabian Tan

I agree with that.

The fallacy that you pay more and get better quality ALL the time is what gets people overpaying for the work they get.

Fabian

[Mark Brian]

Just like to set facts straight: The average salary of a writer working in Manila, Philippines is around $400-$600/month. This amount does not include costs of electricity, equipment, government requirements like health/retirement benefits, etc. that the employer also have to pay.

The reason you can get writers below $400 is either they are based in provinces (working from home without any supervisor) or just plain undervaluing themselves. This also means they are not exclusively working for you. They can get other jobs while working for you, which can obviously lead to affecting the quality of work and the time spent with you. If the writer decides to not show up, you can't really do anything but scratch your head and look for another.

If you hire writers managed by agencies which would costs around $800-$1,200, you get writers exclusively working for you and you are also paying for the office space, electricity, equipment, government requirements like health/retirement benefits, etc. plus you have a supervisor and is guaranteed replacement in case your writer fails to do his task. In other words, just because you pay a little higher with agencies it doesn't mean it's overpriced.

[my_addict_mind]

i said that you need to pay for a premium to get quality work, and probably maintain that guy longer. i never said that you will always get quality work all the time when you pay a premium.

all i am saying is your chances of finding that hidden gem increase with a decent offer rather than paying them $200-300 per month.

it doesn't matter how you pay them (monthly or hourly) is not the argument here. i paid people fixed daily, monthly and hourly and i am fine with any of these. to each his own.

and it is obviously a fallacy on your part that you said you can't quantify a project if it is on a per hour basis. where did you get that idea? as an employer, i have all the right to ask for deliverables. as long as you have put in controls in place, i don't see why you can't do it.

as an employer, your mindset is a little off. when you pay a provider half of his real value, even if you find that diamond in the rough, eventually someone will find him/her and offer the guy his real worth. and you'll never know you will lost that diamond in the rough for good.

if i were a provider and someone is paying me $1 per hour, and i find another project which will pay me $10 per hour, which do you think should i choose? in this free/open economy, the provider also will naturally gravitate to the higher paying job, given the opportunity.

you pay low, they may work hard for a while but they will keep on looking for that golden employer. if you are looking for a diamond in the rough, they are also looking for some gems out there. it is basic supply and demand. you see it everywhere. stock exchange. forex, hiring and firing employees.

if you think it is ridiculous, then that is your opinion. i just can't think how people can stay long with you with that offer. new graduates will. but once they gain some experience and someone comes along with a better offer, you will lose in the end.

[D.K. Magnus]

Doesn't sound like the person being payed "below market prices" wins.


"And when I get that diamond for my needs paying below market prices given the fact that I would be in a start-up phase, then everyone wins. "

[Ghostinthemachine]

Man...

this is a topic I am also very interested in, and I gotta say, this thread is so full of great ideas my head is spinning!

[Ghostinthemachine]

Can someone recommend some good agencies?

[my_addict_mind]

No not everyone wins.

You as an employer wins initially but loses in the end for the simple fact that it will take more of your time to rehire and retrain another young employee because you cannot retain good talents due the ridiculous low fees.

The employee loses initially because he is underpaid but wins eventually when he finds that gem out there.

It is not a question of half-baked work that is the question here when the employee is underpaid for his worth. He will just keep on looking until he gets his target income for his skills and knowledge. Don't expect anyone to work his ass out when he is not satisfied with what he is receiving. That is not human nature.

It is also not an excuse because you are a start-up company to pay low. If you can't afford it, you do it yourself until such time you can afford to.

Originally Posted by D.K. Magnus

Doesn't sound like the person being payed "below market prices" wins.


"And when I get that diamond for my needs paying below market prices given the fact that I would be in a start-up phase, then everyone wins. "

[Gunter Eibl]

The problem is not to find SOMEONE but a good one that combines all the talents you need. Be prepared to invest quite some time until you have found somebody who can do what you want AND is reliable, hard working and self organized.

For every job I post I usually get swamped with applications. That means I have to go through about 40 resumes on average.

Guys with little or no experience go for $200-$300 already but you have to teach them literally everything.

If you pay around $400 you can expect some dedicated hard workers already that have some experience already and should be able to learn what you need from them quickly.

You still will have to teach and train them of course.

One last tip: If you give up too early or expect too much you will fail. If you have found somebody who is ok you must give him at least 2-3 months to learn and adapt everything before you can expect him/her to work fully independently. Most people give up before the VA gets into gears.

Gunter

[Gabe77]

Originally Posted by Gunter Eibl

One last tip: If you give up too early or expect too much you will fail. If you have found somebody who is ok you must give him at least 2-3 months to learn and adapt everything before you can expect him/her to work fully independently. Most people give up before the VA gets into gears.

Gunter

But isn't 2-3 months a bit too long?

[Stacey Wockenfuss]

If you hire too low you will have an extreme amount of turnover and believe me it can kill a business. I used to outsource a ton of telemarketing and sales services and had to shut down for a short period of time because of the constant turnover. I had no problem getting clients, I had a problem retaining contractors.

I closed, regrouped, raised my rates and my standards, got better contractors and paid them a higher wage. And lo and behold I am doing much better now. Turnover can kill a business. Thats why its good to always have 2-3 backups handy just in case.

Stacey

[Wonderbaum]

Originally Posted by Mark Brian

If you hire writers managed by agencies which would costs around $800-$1,200, you get writers exclusively working for you and you are also paying for the office space, electricity, equipment, government requirements like health/retirement benefits, etc. plus you have a supervisor and is guaranteed replacement in case your writer fails to do his task. In other words, just because you pay a little higher with agencies it doesn't mean it's overpriced.

Mark, can you back this up with proof? I have confirmation from some of these agencies stating that they are only paying their writers about $400 per month which then leaves the rest of the money as profit for the agency.

So a $400 per month writer might not be working other jobs at all

[The Villa]

I wanted to read all the answers to your question before posting but then the thread is a bit too long now so I would just like to share my opinion.

I am a Filipino and I used to write for a middleman who charged foreign clients $10 for an article. I got paid only $1-$2 per article. You can see through my signature link how well I could and can write for such low pay. I got attacked by peers a lot for agreeing to accept pay like that. They say I was allowing someone else to exploit me but I was a newbie and I had no idea how to sell myself online so I could make more money. I had to start somewhere so I slaved away writing 5-8 articles a day for that amount.

I can honestly say that those were the worst days of my life. I learned later that many of the other great writers who started work with my middleman at about the same time as I didn't last very long and simply decided to strike off on their own. Now they earn so much more. I was such a slow poke but now I'm following their lead.

My main point here is this: There are many great online Filipino content writers but those who start at the very bottom earning $1 per article never stay there for a long time. If you find some who are still willing to accept low rates, they are either newbies or very much in need of quick cash. In other words, experienced Filipino writers who are really good will definitely ask for a little more than a few dollars for an article.

To answer your question, I will echo what some have already told you in this thread. If you still want cheap Filipino labor, the places to go are Craigslist and Getafreelancer. But I can't promise good quality.

By the way, just a little side note. There are "flaggers" in Craigslist who flag posters who offer very little. There was a point when the conflict got so heated that it escalated to a racial pride issue. Many Filipinos feel that we are trampling on our race for allowing to be used as cheap labor.

[Mark Brian]

Originally Posted by Wonderbaum

Mark, can you back this up with proof? I have confirmation from some of these agencies stating that they are only paying their writers about $400 per month which then leaves the rest of the money as profit for the agency.

So a $400 per month writer might not be working other jobs at all

Yes that is correct. Outsourcing agencies pay writers $400+/mo. Non-outsourcing companies like press/news pay more than that. Thing with what I said is, you can get a below $400 per month work-from-home writer but it's not guaranteed they'll stay longer and you can't really prevent them in taking other jobs unlike in agencies where they are confined in an office with supervisors, you are guaranteed better and exclusive service because they are legally employed. Work-from-writers are more like underground employees.

[Wonderbaum]

Okay if that was what you meant then I misunderstood you. Sorry.

[Wonderbaum]

I have another question for everyone. What can one expect in terms for number of articles/words in a 8 hour day? I know what I am able to write personally but that might not be the norm.

Any suggestions or comments?

[Ralf Skirr]

Originally Posted by Networking_now

Look at their rates on their website, it is so expensive, isnt it?

Agents of Value | Webmaster Outsourcing Services

I tried Agents of Value, don't ever do this:

- their service is terrible.

- I believe that you do not really get a full time agent, but that an agent has to serve several clients at the same time. My 'full time writer' delivered 1500 words of article rewriting per day, told me he needed about 2 hours to do it and really had problems explaining why he couldn't deliver more per day.

- they are way overpriced. Their agents get less then $250 a month, the rest you pay purely for AOV profit. That's 500 bucks for nothing. So for the same money you pay to AOV for 1 person you can hire 2 or 3 on your own.

Ralf

[Andy Immotna]

Glad I read this post.. I didn't know there were a number of article writing services too here in PH! I've been outsourcing from people in the US and might as well try the links given above.

I didnt know 'cause I hardly fine one on SE.. ;(

[Tyrus Antas]

What are these motivational materials you guys keep talking about?

Do I need to buy "Unleash the Power Within" for my Filipino VA?

Tyrus

[Wonderbaum]

Okay then let me throw something out there... I would imagine that 8 hours of focused work should be able to produce a least 6 decent quality articles of each +500 words.

Said in another way. If you're paying $400 - $500 per month for a VA then they will need to produce that amount if they price is to compete with places like e.g. Need-An-Article (which will do 550 word articles for $5.52 a piece).

[abelacts]

Originally Posted by Dana_W

I'll be honest, though, finding and retaining good, reliable, very talented people for $200 a month might be a bit of a challenge even there. That's just been my experience. $300-$400 a month seems more like it.

How many hours are you talking about?

[ewenmack]

Getting back to your original question, "where do I find full time writers from the Phillipines",
John Jonas has now his own website for this here Find a real, online job! | Home

Bestjobsph is closed to all outside the Phillipines now.

Further if you want a bigger selection, I have the contact details from previous applicants for writing 40 hours a week.

Just PM me if you want their contact details.

To screen the applicants I asked the most likely candidates to send samples of their work,
write 10 articles on the same subject matter and tell me how soon they can have it done by.

This is to see if you need to spend much time correcting the work
See if they follow through on their commitments
See how many articles they can write in a day.

From there you can tell if you want to work with the writer and what that person is worth to you.

Missing these screening steps leaves you open to costly mistakes.

Hope that helps Mikael,

Ewen

[JackPowers]

If I were to outsource to the Philipines I would be looking to get a VA that had an interest in eventually making it in IM themselves and not just to make ends meet. That way I think you could offer a lower starting salary, but teach them about IM along the way. I know from experience that very few people actually want to work fulltime as writers. There's definetly a big difference between someone writing just for the money and someone writing because they love it. So, I would consider offering free IM training as part of the package.

[plester]

Hi Michael,

You may want to check odesk.com

[Robert T Jillie]

Hi Wonderbaum,

A couple of years ago I posted an advertisement on craigslist:manila because I needed an affordable writer and an assistant.

I received around twenty replies. Many were collage educated and quite a few were very capable individuals.

I selected the best applicants - two of them - and both are still working for me to this day.

I have since used craigslist:manila for more projects than I can count and all have worked out really well.

Hope this helps! ....

[broker12]

Odesk is a great place to find writers. I have seen many from the Philippines there.

[AceHazel]

Filipinos are really great worker. Try bestjobs dot ph or onlinjobs dot ph.

[Kneb Knebaih]

Go for Odesk 100%...

Not good experience with OnlineJobs nor BestJobs ph, everytime I´ve tried John Jonas resources I´ve wasted time and money...

And believe me, I´m an outsourcing veteran with a big team.

Odesk is easy, fast and you will find killer writers there.

Guru.com is reliable also.

[Arizona]

Hi Mikael,

We have used writers from the Philippines before and although many of them speak very, very well, you may have issues if you are very particular about how your articles sound.

We have not had the best luck with writers; I will tell you that. And when we did find a few, then they would suddenly have an emergency and we would not hear from them for days! This happened several times. I believe what happens is they find someone who will pay them more and will dump their current employer in a blink of an eye. I truly believe that is what happened to us. You really have to be careful and set the standards that you expect and really consider having them work on a project basis as I said.

By the way, we have used BestJobs.ph for our employees and will continue to use them.

Despite what I have said, there are some real good people that you will find there. In fact, we had a virtual assistant who was very loyal to us (and still is) and he is not currently working on any projects for us at this time. Real nice guy and always willing to please!

So not to discourage you, but I would suggest that you interview a few people and talk to them to see how well they actually speak English and ALWAYS get a sample of their work!

When you are ready to hire someone, hire the person on a project basis. Perhaps just having them write a couple articles would be a good idea instead of hiring them either part-time or full-time. You can always hire them for part-time or full-time status later on if your choose.

We learned our lesson and hire on a project basis as a result of the bad luck that I mentioned. That way, you have a better chance at getting the work completed because they will not get paid unless they complete the project.

Hope this helps you! Good luck with your business!

[Kneb Knebaih]

Welll... I would add that Filippinos are a bit overestimated...

You should open your mind to another possibilities.

If we are talking about cheap, you can find killer writers from South_American countries, and from East-Europe... and even from USA...

[honeyyoung]

We are not saying that ALL Filipinos are good. Some are, some aren't. You just have to find one and see for yourself.

When you say that they are overestimated, that may be your opinion, but there are already a lot of people who have hired Filipinos and are very satisfied with the work delivered to them, as evidenced by the people in this forum.

For those looking for writers and VAs, try easyoutsource.com. It is a job site and you hire directly, not through an agency.

Just my two cents...

[clint48]

You can find some high quality writers on Digital Point for $4.00 per 400 word article. Just check the reviews on them if they have a lot of reviews and all are positive you will probably have a good writer. If you wanted to check further you could just pm some of the others that have had articles written for them.

They may not be be from the Philippines, I think some are from India, but they write well and I don't think $4.00 is a bad price, it's at least a dollar cheaper than what you would get a U.S. writer for. If you need a package of articles you will probably be able to get a package for less than $4.00 an article.

Clint

[jedz]

Hi,

We can definitely help you out. We provide competent and dedicated writers at reasonable prices. Samples and rates will be sent to your email

Hope to hear from you

[ewenmack]

Originally Posted by Wonderbaum

For years I've listen to guys like Jeff Johnson and John Jonas talking about outsourcing to the Philippines but when I try to find the services offering these solutions I have very little luck.

I know of the service AgentsOfValue but that is about it. Jeff and John talk about hiring people for as little as $2-300 per month

If you know of some of the places to find good Philippine writers please share

Thanks,
Mikael

Not sure why you or others haven't come across onlinejobs.ph

John Jonas started it once bestjobs.ph stopped taking on new employers other than the Phillipines.

Lots of writers there with their capabilities ranked for different areas.

Ewen

P.S.
Site was layed out by his fulltime tech guy from the Phillipines..