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Unread 3rd June 2013, 09:13 AM   #1
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Default I Know Curiosity Killed The Cat But Satisfaction Brought Him Back!

Okay, as you can probably tell, I'm very curious.

What I am pondering on this morning is why so many Warriors when asked about outsourcing work, whatever the service may be, make suggestions offsite rather than suggesting fellow Warriors? I see places like Fiverr, O-desk, Elance, etc.

I have found the community here to be quite talented and creative and well, the thing about communities is that they are an entity onto themselves made up of citizens that aid one another, stick together and cater to one another. After all, it is the people of a community that make it great or not so much.

If I am asked and know of someone who is talented in that arena, I don't hesitate to recommend a Warrior, at all. It also truly warms my heart when I see someone else recommend to check out the Warriors For Hire Section, Classified Ads, a link to a WSO or a link to a fellow Warrior's profile page where they can find that Warrior's signature and/or home page.

So, for those of you that recommend services offsite or other people who are not Warriors, why do you do that?

Again, just curious.

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Unread 3rd June 2013, 09:19 AM   #2
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Default Re: I Know Curiosity Killed The Cat But Satisfaction Brought Him Back!

My guess is, you can hire an outsourcer from Asia, India, and other places for a fraction of what someone in the U.S. will charge. Not always, of course, but as a general rule.

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Unread 3rd June 2013, 09:22 AM   #3
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Default Re: I Know Curiosity Killed The Cat But Satisfaction Brought Him Back!

It's largely newbies who recommend sources other than WF, or those who haven't yet availed themselves of the wide range of services that can be provided by numerous experienced, and first-rate warriors. Unlike the veterans on here.
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Unread 3rd June 2013, 09:25 AM   #4
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Default Re: I Know Curiosity Killed The Cat But Satisfaction Brought Him Back!

Even if someone recommends you, how can you be so sure that he/she is good at what he/she does ? heh

If he/she was good at it, then they won't have the time to look for work here in the warrior forum

If I tell you that I will help you, you won't probably believe me, coz you don't know me and no one "recommended" me to you.

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Unread 3rd June 2013, 09:26 AM   #5
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Default Re: I Know Curiosity Killed The Cat But Satisfaction Brought Him Back!

Gee, I don't know Terra. I'll have my fiverr guy run a poll on that and my odesk VA will PM you with an answer ASAP.

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Unread 3rd June 2013, 09:39 AM   #6
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Default Re: I Know Curiosity Killed The Cat But Satisfaction Brought Him Back!

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Even if someone recommends you, how can you be so sure that he/she is good at what he/she does ? heh

If he/she was good at it, then they won't have the time to look for work here in the warrior forum

If I tell you that I will help you, you won't probably believe me, coz you don't know me and no one "recommended" me to you.
If you'll notice, Patrick, I did say if you know of someone who is good/talented in that arena, personally recommend them. If not, you could recommend the WFH section or Classified section where they can search, see comments and work samples to make their own determination. Naturally, you wouldn't refer some random person not knowing their talent or work ethic as that certainly would reflect on your own reputation as well.

I refer people I have worked with in the past, or people whose work I have seen and judge to be excellent.

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Unread 3rd June 2013, 09:41 AM   #7
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Default Re: I Know Curiosity Killed The Cat But Satisfaction Brought Him Back!

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Gee, I don't know Terra. I'll have my fiverr guy run a poll on that and my odesk VA will PM you with an answer ASAP.

GEORGE WRIGHT
Haha George!

Thank you so very much, but please don't waste your time, as I'm not interested in their opinion.

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Unread 3rd June 2013, 10:09 AM   #8
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Default Re: I Know Curiosity Killed The Cat But Satisfaction Brought Him Back!

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If you'll notice, Patrick, I did say if you know of someone who is good/talented in that arena, personally recommend them. If not, you could recommend the WFH section or Classified section where they can search, see comments and work samples to make their own determination. Naturally, you wouldn't refer some random person not knowing their talent or work ethic as that certainly would reflect on your own reputation as well.

I refer people I have worked with in the past, or people whose work I have seen and judge to be excellent.

Terra

You didn't get the point I was making.

Last week a client of mine recommended me to someone. I did the work for her and then I saw that she disappeared. I don't really care also coz I don't want to spoil the relationship with my client (both of them are woman so I don't want to argue also). So all this recommending is good but you should be careful about who you are hiring or paying money to do your work, is what I meant to say.

What are you looking for ? I won't recommend anyone here, coz I personally don't know anyone here. If you are looking for anything related to web development, I will do it for you. Just like I helped this guy here fix his site right now in 5 mins.

http://www.warriorforum.com/website-...-php-help.html

And just to point out that I am not promoting my services, I will do it for free. But I need to know what you want to do, if it is related to web development.

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Unread 3rd June 2013, 10:23 AM   #9
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Default Re: I Know Curiosity Killed The Cat But Satisfaction Brought Him Back!

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You didn't get the point I was making.

Last week a client of mine recommended me to someone. I did the work for her and then I saw that she disappeared. I don't really care also coz I don't want to spoil the relationship with my client (both of them are woman so I don't want to argue also). So all this recommending is good but you should be careful about who you are hiring or paying money to do your work, is what I meant to say.

What are you looking for ? I won't recommend anyone here, coz I personally don't know anyone here. If you are looking for anything related to web development, I will do it for you...

And just to point out that I am not promoting my services, I will do it for free. But I need to know what you want to do, if it is related to web development.
Aww, how very sweet of you Patrick!

I appreciate your offer, but I am not looking for anything right now other than wanting to know why some Warriors recommend offsite for services rather than from our community.

Oh, and to help ensure that a client doesn't disappear on you again after delivering work, ask for payment upfront or at least 50% of it. You can just let them know that it is your policy and doesn't reflect on them at all if you think your potential client/clients would be uncomfortable with it.

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Unread 3rd June 2013, 10:33 AM   #10
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Default Re: I Know Curiosity Killed The Cat But Satisfaction Brought Him Back!

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Oh, and to help ensure that a client doesn't disappear on you again after delivering work, ask for payment upfront or at least 50% of it. You can just let them know that it is your policy and doesn't reflect on them at all if you think your potential client/clients would be uncomfortable with it.

Terra
I don't really care for that disappearing client, coz the person who recommended me gives me a lot of work every week. So even if I do one work for her for free just to make her friend happy, it's alright with me.

About that 50% theory, that's one of the reasons why people recommend to Odesk or freelancer.com, coz a lot of people are hesitant to pay the advance since they really don't know who they are dealing with and if they are going to deliver to you what you want.

In Odesk or freelancer.com, or any freelance site you have the option of escrow, where the amount stays in between the employer and employee, and then when the employee finishes the work, the employer can release the payment. This way your money is safe also.

If you work outside them, you have to pay through paypal or some other direct payment, so if the person disappears, there is nothing you can do.

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Unread 3rd June 2013, 11:18 AM   #11
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Default Re: I Know Curiosity Killed The Cat But Satisfaction Brought Him Back!

Patrick,

I'm glad to hear that it doesn't bother you that you ended up doing a freebie.

See, that's the thing with personal referrals or recommendations, you have the word of a trusted friend of their honesty and need not worry about being ripped off.

I personally would have a problem with a client who was only concerned with their own financial well being. How much more fair can you be than 50/50?

As for me personally, I always ask for payment first, but offer a 100% refund if not satisfied and I've never been asked for one to date.

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Unread 3rd June 2013, 01:20 PM   #12
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Default Re: I Know Curiosity Killed The Cat But Satisfaction Brought Him Back!

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Originally Posted by MissTerraK View Post
Haha George!

Thank you so very much, but please don't waste your time, as I'm not interested in their opinion.

Terra
Terra,

My fiverr guy and my odesk VA are both Warriors!

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Unread 3rd June 2013, 02:32 PM   #13
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Default Re: I Know Curiosity Killed The Cat But Satisfaction Brought Him Back!

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Terra,

My fiverr guy and my odesk VA are both Warriors!

George Wright
Oh, well that kind of changes things a bit now doesn't it?

So, what do they say?

Terra

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Unread 3rd June 2013, 02:37 PM   #14
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Default Re: I Know Curiosity Killed The Cat But Satisfaction Brought Him Back!

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Oh, well that kind of changes things a bit now doesn't it?

So, what do they say?

Terra
They said I should stop hijacking your thread with my silly self.

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Unread 3rd June 2013, 02:43 PM   #15
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Default Re: I Know Curiosity Killed The Cat But Satisfaction Brought Him Back!

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They said I should stop hijacking your thread with my silly self.

George Wright
LOL! I like them already!

Seriously, though, it is quite alright as all of those that do recommend offsite seem to be a bit apprehensive in responding here. I didn't know I was that scary!

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Unread 3rd June 2013, 03:14 PM   #16
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Default Re: I Know Curiosity Killed The Cat But Satisfaction Brought Him Back!

Quote:
As for me personally, I always ask for payment first, but offer a 100% refund if not satisfied and I've never been asked for one to date.
I work with this philosophy as well and have never had to offer a refund.

I agree that it is curious why people don't suggest the forum as a means of outsourcing but I think it may simply be that they don't understand how it works and/or have never used it themselves.

Quote:
If he/she was good at it, then they won't have the time to look for work here in the warrior forum
Patrick...I am good at what I do BUT there isn't ALWAYS sufficient work which is why I advertise my services. Most professionals do the same thing because you have to constantly be marketing to keep the money flowing in.

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Unread 3rd June 2013, 04:17 PM   #17
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Default Re: I Know Curiosity Killed The Cat But Satisfaction Brought Him Back!

Back in the days when "computer" meant a big mainframe with its own facility and staff of servants, and dinosaurs roamed free, there was a popular saying among purchasing agents...

"No one ever got fired for recommending IBM."

For many, who likely have never actually outsourced anything but still want to at least appear helpful, recommending a site like oDesk, Fiverr and the like is a 'safe' recommendation.

Get this one thing right and it will be like you are the only one they are listening to. Probably because you will be the only one they are listening to.

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Unread 3rd June 2013, 04:26 PM   #18
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Default Re: I Know Curiosity Killed The Cat But Satisfaction Brought Him Back!

I like odesk platforms because of the easy of payment and ability to see what your outsourcer is working on. I feel I have more security using that platform. Then again I haven't really outsourced much on WF. Anyone else with some experience and tips to help protect yourself from fraudulent people?
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Unread 3rd June 2013, 04:28 PM   #19
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Default Re: I Know Curiosity Killed The Cat But Satisfaction Brought Him Back!

John,

I love it! "Back in the days when...dinosaurs roamed free" Ha!

You made me laugh.

Okay, now that I've got the giggles out out of my system, I think what you say makes a lot of sense. If you think about it, that is their way of feeling like part of the community and shows they like the community and want to participate in it. Perhaps down the road they, in time, may recommend Warriors too.

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Unread 3rd June 2013, 05:09 PM   #20
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Default Re: I Know Curiosity Killed The Cat But Satisfaction Brought Him Back!

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I am good at what I do BUT there isn't ALWAYS sufficient work which is why I advertise my services. Most professionals do the same thing because you have to constantly be marketing to keep the money flowing in.
Nothing personal Laurence but it always rankles with me when I see the same old excuses churned out by so called top quality writers. It's the usual spiel; their websites, blogs, and signature links praising themselves up to the hilt, yet they're struggling for work. Why is that? You shouldn't need to advertise and you shouldn't need to be constantly marketing yourself. Don't you find it strange that a writer being SO good can't get adequate work, and furthermore undersells himself on prices? I do.

Before the perennial sympathisers and whingers start piling into the thread with their usual defence lines of: too much competition, undercutting of prices by writers in India, etc, being strangled by places like Fiverr and Odesk, etc, every man and his dog is offering writing services, and so on . . . let me educate them a little.

1. None of the above is competition. Mediocre, poor, and average writers only serve to illustrate the benefits of engaging a top quality writer.

2. There is more demand now for the cream of the writing industry than at any time past.

I regularly turn away up to a dozen or more assignment offers A WEEK, and the bulk of these are paying 200+ per 1,000 words. The reason why? . . . I'm far too busy with my own writing, projects, websites, books, videos, blog articles, etc, to find the time. I maybe take on a handful of writing assignments a year and they have to be extremely challenging to even begin to whet my appetite.

So where are writers going wrong?

I provided my answer to this in a recent thread by another disillusioned, underpaid writer. And you, Laurence, "thanked" me.

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Unread 3rd June 2013, 07:05 PM   #21
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Default Re: I Know Curiosity Killed The Cat But Satisfaction Brought Him Back!

You do have a valid point, HD. (Oh, and I think your post from the link you posted is brilliant!)

Okay, now that HD brought this up, I do just have to say that people who continuously self promote themselves in numerous posts often come off as being desperate and desperation is a poor advertising/marketing method. It does have a tendency to drive potential clients away rather than piquing interest to draw them near.

Self promotion is also breaking a rule. And see, some thought that the rules here were only to annoy and hinder rather than actually helping one's business reputation.

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Unread 3rd June 2013, 07:24 PM   #22
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Default Re: I Know Curiosity Killed The Cat But Satisfaction Brought Him Back!

nice title for your thread
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Unread 4th June 2013, 09:06 AM   #23
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nice title for your thread
I thought it was cute but I'm sure some would complain that it doesn't contain the proper keywords for the subject.

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Unread 4th June 2013, 11:03 AM   #24
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You do have a valid point, HD. (Oh, and I think your post from the link you posted is brilliant!)
Glad you thought so.

My whole point (which appears to be conveniently overlooked by the large majority of writers) is that ANY writer who is GENUINELY top class, and can substantiate their claims of being able to provide superb quality work and improve clients business, should be working on their own projects, products, and websites, and NOT working for others. It makes sense.

The problem will always be that too many self-proclaimed "quality" writers appear to believe their own falsely projected image. Truth be told, the vast majority of them are mediocre, poor, or average at best. The resulting struggles they have to endure within the cutthroat and cramped marketplace of the writing industry is therefore to be fully expected.

Bad writers complain. Good writers have no need to.


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I do just have to say that people who continuously self promote themselves in numerous posts often come off as being desperate and desperation is a poor advertising/marketing method. It does have a tendency to drive potential clients away rather than piquing interest to draw them near.
That's because "desperate" is exactly what they are. Unfortunately, instead of driving potential clients away, it has the reverse effect and sucks in the gullible and newbies who see in-your-face self-promotion and cheap rates as a benefit - rather than a foolish shortcut. So those "desperate" writers will always be caught in a cycle of attracting less demanding clients and poorer paid assignments.

Potential clients with a healthy dose of nous about them are few and far between, simply because they've already secured the services of a top pro writer and will continue to use their services ad infinitum.

Quality writing assignments are all about word of mouth. Do a top quality job and that client not only doesn't want to lose your services, more importantly they'll recommend you to all and sundry. A few months down the line you'll find you never have to advertise or solicit for work again. It will all come to you.

The bottom line (and the hardest thing for a writer or potential writer to accept) is the fact that YOU'RE NOT GOOD ENOUGH. And that's not good enough for top assignments, not good enough for top money, and not good enough for a future in the better end of the industry. So unless you're big enough to accept that fact and your lot, or move on to another potential occupation, please stop whining on WF about lack of work and poor rates of pay. If you're that good, DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT!
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Unread 4th June 2013, 01:03 PM   #25
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Default Re: I Know Curiosity Killed The Cat But Satisfaction Brought Him Back!

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If you're that good, DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT!
That right there is epic!

It all came so naturally for me and I kind of got an early start. When I was a little kid, my parents got me a subscription to "Children's Digest" and I loved it, but didn't stop there as it led to many other kid's magazines. (I come from a family of avid readers).

Anyway, when I was ten, I entered a piece I had written on "Your Most Embarrassing Moment" written in a most entertaining manner, I must admit. My piece was chosen for publication and so at a mere 10 years of age, I received my first payment for a published piece. It was a whole $3.00, lol! But hey, for a kid, it was awesome.

I couldn't believe that people would pay me for writing, my favorite past time, something I did for fun and the love of it. After that, I entered every writing contest from every magazine I got and submitted my stories on a myriad of topics that the magazines asked for and continued to be published. I was hooked! This carried on throughout junior high and high school and some of those magazines actually contacted me to do pieces for them.

In high school, I was a cub reporter for a county newspaper and wrote feature articles for magazines. I still to this day write freelance for several local offline publications and am on contract for some bi-weekly local publications as well.

Okay, enough rambling! My point was supposed to be that if a 10 year old can do it, anybody can. Funny how persistent kids can be. I wonder if we lose some of that when we grow up. If that is the case, then perhaps we need to become more childlike. Note: Childlike, not childish, there is a huge difference.

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Unread 5th June 2013, 09:12 AM   #26
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Default Re: I Know Curiosity Killed The Cat But Satisfaction Brought Him Back!

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Okay, now that HD brought this up, I do just have to say that people who continuously self promote themselves in numerous posts often come off as being desperate and desperation is a poor advertising/marketing method. It does have a tendency to drive potential clients away rather than piquing interest to draw them near.

Terra
First off, huge kudos for using "piquing" rather than 'peeking' or 'peaking'. Made my morning so far.

Next, desperation does more than drive potential clients away. It draws the predators and scavengers like a rotting corpse draws hyenas, jackals and buzzards. And blowflies...

Get this one thing right and it will be like you are the only one they are listening to. Probably because you will be the only one they are listening to.

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Unread 5th June 2013, 09:51 AM   #27
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Default Re: I Know Curiosity Killed The Cat But Satisfaction Brought Him Back!

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Originally Posted by JohnMcCabe View Post
First off, huge kudos for using "piquing" rather than 'peeking' or 'peaking'. Made my morning so far.

Next, desperation does more than drive potential clients away. It draws the predators and scavengers like a rotting corpse draws hyenas, jackals and buzzards. And blowflies...
Thanks John!

Ha! I love the very descriptive analogy and conceptualization you wrote!

If that doesn't stop acts of desperation, I honestly don't know what would!

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Unread 5th June 2013, 11:23 AM   #28
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Default Re: I Know Curiosity Killed The Cat But Satisfaction Brought Him Back!

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Originally Posted by Horny Devil View Post
Glad you thought so.

My whole point (which appears to be conveniently overlooked by the large majority of writers) is that ANY writer who is GENUINELY top class, and can substantiate their claims of being able to provide superb quality work and improve clients business, should be working on their own projects, products, and websites, and NOT working for others. It makes sense.

The problem will always be that too many self-proclaimed "quality" writers appear to believe their own falsely projected image. Truth be told, the vast majority of them are mediocre, poor, or average at best. The resulting struggles they have to endure within the cutthroat and cramped marketplace of the writing industry is therefore to be fully expected.

Bad writers complain. Good writers have no need to.




That's because "desperate" is exactly what they are. Unfortunately, instead of driving potential clients away, it has the reverse effect and sucks in the gullible and newbies who see in-your-face self-promotion and cheap rates as a benefit - rather than a foolish shortcut. So those "desperate" writers will always be caught in a cycle of attracting less demanding clients and poorer paid assignments.

Potential clients with a healthy dose of nous about them are few and far between, simply because they've already secured the services of a top pro writer and will continue to use their services ad infinitum.

Quality writing assignments are all about word of mouth. Do a top quality job and that client not only doesn't want to lose your services, more importantly they'll recommend you to all and sundry. A few months down the line you'll find you never have to advertise or solicit for work again. It will all come to you.

The bottom line (and the hardest thing for a writer or potential writer to accept) is the fact that YOU'RE NOT GOOD ENOUGH. And that's not good enough for top assignments, not good enough for top money, and not good enough for a future in the better end of the industry. So unless you're big enough to accept that fact and your lot, or move on to another potential occupation, please stop whining on WF about lack of work and poor rates of pay. If you're that good, DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT!
I agree with this entirely and that's because desperate people attract desperate buyers. If you're top quality you don't need to advertise, as they will surely come to you.

If you're not a natural writer why not consider another occupation, as it's blatantly obvious to everyone else that you don't cut it, except to you.

The best point of all of this is that at the end of the day "it's up to you", so what ya whinging for?
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