Every person is entitled to have an opinion. Don't try to change it ...

[radhika]

Recently many posts are showing the tendency of going into battle mode.

If a person posts like - "Sky is always blue for me."

Don't say - "What kind of sh**tty statement is that? It is always green to me."

Instead post - "Yes. Most of the times it changes from blue to greyish blue, orange to red while sun was setting."

Next time the original poster tries to look at the sky in the evenings.

WHAT I AM SAYING?

Everybody is different in their opinions and experience and every person is entitled to have his/her own opinion. Don't try to convince them as if you are correct and they are wrong. After all we still are learning many things even now ... and forums are good place to learn and exchange opinions not to prove your opinions.

What do you say?

.

[cashcow]

I see what you are saying, however I think that it is a smart person that will listen to criticism and different ideas and perhaps learn from them.

We all have opinions on things, but I know that I, for one, have changed many of mine over the years because of people that have shown me how things could be different.

Keeping an open mind helps you grow, sticking to your opinions stubbornly just because that is what you have always been told seems like it could hamper personal growth. Unless of course you know everything and are always right.

But that's just my opinion.....

[Kim Davis]

Very good for bringing up that point. Everyone does have their own opinion but not everyone wants to hear it. I say, while speaking to others remember to leave their dignity intact. I know that can be hard to do but when you get the urge to want to tell someone they are a doehead, just stop and think to yourself thank God I am not like them. You will feel better and the other person won't feel attacked.

[radhika]

Originally Posted by cashcow

I see what you are saying, however I think that it is a smart person that will listen to criticism and different ideas and perhaps learn from them.

We all have opinions on things, but I know that I, for one, have changed many of mine over the years because of people that have shown me how things could be different.

Keeping an open mind helps you grow, sticking to your opinions stubbornly just because that is what you have always been told seems like it could hamper personal growth. Unless of course you know everything and are always right.

But that's just my opinion.....

Yep. You explained it good.

People should explain what they know but not in a defensive way ... and others should taken that explanation as a learning experience but not ranting about how wrong the explanation is.

.

[Kay King]

An opinion is "I think" or "I believe" and while someone else may point out facts you have missed in forming your opinion, each is entitled to his own opinion.

good place to learn and exchange opinions not to prove your opinions

.

When "opinion" is presented as "fact", the fact may be challenged.
Opinions that have no basis in fact, experience or knowledge will be argued - as they should be.

kay

[Michael Motley]

i disagree. thats my opinion.

don't try to change it either.

[jasonl70]

I think Kay touched on an important distinction.. a lot of opinions are being put out there by people as facts. Those same people will oftentimes later say "i was only stating my opinion", but they don't seem to realize that they were NOT stating it as opinion, they were stating it as fact. You are opening yourself up to serious debate if you do this..

i also think kim is correct regarding leaving people with some dignity.. I try to make sure I take issue with the statement/idea, not the person. But I am only human, and some people really open themselves up to abuse with some of the stuff they post

[radhika]

Originally Posted by Kay King

An opinion is "I think" or "I believe" and while someone else may point out facts you have missed in forming your opinion, each is entitled to his own opinion.

.

When "opinion" is presented as "fact", the fact may be challenged.
Opinions that have no basis in fact, experience or knowledge will be argued - as they should be.

kay

If a person know the other persons 'opinion' is wrong based on a 'fact' he knows, let him put it infront of them. That's it ... He can not pass offensive statements.

Opinion or fact or belief - same rule applies. Simply don't offend others because you are right or know something.

.

[Kay King]

Opinion or fact or belief - same rule applies. Simply don't offend others because you are right or know something.

I'm not sure what your point is. Opinion and fact are not the same. Posters who become irate and defensive when someone challenges their incorrect facts bring the criticism on themselves.

There will be arguments - it's a forum. Best to keep it on a business level rather than personal, but doesn't always happen.

kay

[SurviveUnemployment]

It is true that everyone is entitled to their opinion. It is true that we should respect that fact.

Some opinions are more valuable than others, though.

[radhika]

Originally Posted by Kay King

I'm not sure what your point is. Opinion and fact are not the same. Posters who become irate and defensive when someone challenges their incorrect facts bring the criticism on themselves.

kay

Kay, what my point is, whatever a person knows (whether it is a fact, opinion or a belief), let it be explained WITHOUT offending others by taking other people posts personally.

There will be arguments - it's a forum. Best to keep it on a business level rather than personal, but doesn't always happen.

Let it be happen
Nothing wrong in trying.

.

[bushwood]

This is a great forum and one from which I have learned a great deal. I don't post very often, except when something touches a nerve.

It seems there are some who feel they must pounce on anyone not in line with their thinking on an issue. Often it seems to come from know-it-alls who try to bully their opinion onto other less experienced Warriors.

Over time you get to know who these people are and as a result give their opinions much less credence. They need to move out of their mom's basement and get lives.

[bbells]

I feel like what bushwood said is very true. Know who has given you useful opinion and take it for what it is worth, good or bad. Plus we are all grown ups here, if someone writes something that offends someone or attacks someone...honestly who cares. If it makes them feel better let them have it.

Personally like bushwood said, I also have learned a great deal from this forum. I continually learn everyday so for me it is great to see all the opinions.

all the best

[Kay King]

Kay, what my point is, whatever a person knows (whether it is a fact, opinion or a belief), let it be explained WITHOUT offending others by taking other people posts personally.

Now I understand! And I agree. I think some people invest too much emotion in the IM biz. When a disagreement becomes a personal attack, someone is confusing who they ARE with what they DO. When you inject ego into threads, it seldom turns out well.

kay

[patJ]

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. But that doesn't mean i have to accept or respect that opinion. People who believe that one race/gender etc is superior to another will always recieve heavy bashing from me.

[jasonl70]

Originally Posted by bushwood

This is a great forum and one from which I have learned a great deal. I don't post very often, except when something touches a nerve.

It seems there are some who feel they must pounce on anyone not in line with their thinking on an issue. Often it seems to come from know-it-alls who try to bully their opinion onto other less experienced Warriors.

Over time you get to know who these people are and as a result give their opinions much less credence. They need to move out of their mom's basement and get lives.

If someone is stating their opinion as a fact, then they will likely get publicly called out on it.. if for no other reason then to prevent newbies from blindly accepting their info as the gospel truth.

There is a huge difference in posting:

"XXXX does not work"
vs
"in my experience, XXXX has not worked well"

There are a lot of newbies and struggling marketers here, and in a world of the blind, the one eye'd man can become king and lead people down a dead end street if those folks with 2 eye's don't call him out on occassion.

[Woody C]

Everything is relative...and everything is constantly changing.

Opinions are, just that...opinions. Unfortunately people try to back up opinions with facts and the two don't always mix. Or as stated above, people try to pass of opinions as fact.

The truth is that you cannot force people to believe something. They must come to the conclusion themselves. If a person is told they are wrong, especially for something they believe to be true, then they will put up a wall and/or ignore the other side of the coin.

They best way is to make them come to the conclusion themselves which is easier said than done most times.

The problem with most posts attacking other's opinions is the fact that the people themselves feel they are being attacked rather than the opinions or ideas. This is what causes most of the "battles" in the WF. So be careful next time you don't agree with someone. Make sure you make it clear you are talking about the post and not the person.

[Michael Motley]

Originally Posted by patJ

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. But that doesn't mean i have to accept or respect that opinion. People who believe that one race/gender etc is superior to another will always recieve heavy bashing from me.

so everyone is entitled to their own opinion as long as you don't disagree with it?

[CocoChanelle]

My opinion? I can't believe I wasted my time reading this post.

[BrianMcLeod]

There's an old saying:

"Everyone is entitled to their own opinions... but not their own FACTS."

Facts are verifiably and demonstrably true.

Opinions are expressions of a belief in something being true.

I view it as a DISSERVICE to the readers of a public forum to allow erroneous statements of fact to go unchallenged. Opinions? Hey, that's fine with me.

All that said... I agree with you that angry, inflammatory attacks in response to a forum post are largely unproductive and almost always unnecessary.

Frankly, I view it as more a reflection of the attacker's insecurity than anything else.

The need to be "right" by making someone else "wrong" is easy to avoid once you learn to spot the pattern in yourself -- and that's where it starts, within each of us.

I can't tell you how many times I wish I could "unsend" something I posted in anger or frustration. But I CAN tell you how many times I've rewritten a reply before posting or simply NOT replied because I realized it would be ME being the prick.

Best,

Brian

[Bill Farnham]

Perhaps if we adopted a protocol where "IMO" (in my opinion) was included in every sentence things would go smoother.

I suggest we use the "." (period) as the defacto symbol.

So from now on, everytime you see a sentence that ends with a period you simply mentally insert the 'imo' and life will be easier.

And yes, I ended that last sentence with a period.

KJ

[BlackWaterBlog]

Would be a much better world if everyone just got along instead of flipping out on someone that agrees or disagrees about something voicing their opinion freely.

[patJ]

Originally Posted by Michael Motley

so everyone is entitled to their own opinion as long as you don't disagree with it?

Being entitled to something doesn't mean that you are protected from criticism. Freedom of speech you know.

[andyelite]

There are many famous quotations about opinions. Here are a few, and as you can see they don't agree with each other :-)

Opinion has caused more trouble on this little earth than plagues or earthquakes.
Voltaire

Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.
Marcus Aurelius

Opinion is the medium between knowledge and ignorance.
Plato

Where an opinion is general, it is usually correct.
Jane Austen

The fact that an opinion has been widely held is no evidence whatever that it is not utterly absurd.
Bertrand Russell

Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts.
Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Disclaimer: The above post expresses the opinions of the people quoted, not the post author ;-)

[Michael Motley]

Originally Posted by patJ

Being entitled to something doesn't mean that you are protected from criticism. Freedom of speech you know.

and do you think that goes both ways?

[patJ]

Originally Posted by Michael Motley

and do you think that goes both ways?

Freedom of speech goes both ways, obviously.

[MikeAmbrosio]

When I want an opinion from someone, I simply give it to them...



Mke

P.S. That was a joke (IMO)

[FortressDewey]

Opinions and belly buttons (substitute appropriate body part) everyone has them.

[FreelanceSally]

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. If my opinion happens to be that your opinion is incredibly stupid, so be it. I shouldn't have to sugarcoat my opinion. We are all adults here, right? A little constructive criticism never hurt anyone. I think part of the lure of this forum is the honesty. I say, if you can't take the heat move your game to a different ballpark.

[Zeus66]

OK, prepare to be offended. In fact, stop reading now if you don't want to get upset and fire off a nasty PM to me (which is fine by me... I'll probably get a chuckle from it anyway)...

Final warning...

I totally disagree with the OP on this. I'm 180 degrees the other way, in fact. I think what's often lacking from this and other forums is blunt honesty about the opinions of others. What better way to thin the herd and get rid of the mamby-pamby types who want things to be all love and kisses and fluffy bunnies and OH JESUS MAKE IT STOP!!!!

If your opinion is that a clear sky when the sun's at its zenith is any other color than blue, someone dang well needs to tell you to get your eyes checked and to otherwise shut up and sit quietly. This forum is often awash in ridiculous "opinions" that are based on feelings or wishes or something someone told them that the poster then submits as absolute truth without an ounce of testing or doing any research. And you all know it, don't you? If not, get your eyes checked and otherwise shut up and sit quietly. Doodle or something.

Are you entitled to your opinion, even when it's moronic? Yes. Are the rest of us entitled to point out the idiocy of your opinion in those cases? Also yes. Instead of trying to get the rest of us to walk on eggshells around your silly crapola of an opinion to save your precious feelings, take your deserved beating (metaphorically speaking, of course) and learn from it. That's how it SHOULD be. And that's how it probably never will be. But I can dream.

[Tsnyder]

There are people... far too many of them... who will CHOOSE to
take offense when others disagree... no matter how respectfully
that disagreement is expressed.

My strategy is... has always been... to express my thoughts
directly and without beating around the bush.

If someone CHOOSES to be offended that will have to be their problem.
Dealing with their attitude and ego is not in my job description.

Tsnyder

[Christa_Regalado]

Originally Posted by Kay King

Now I understand! And I agree. I think some people invest too much emotion in the IM biz. When a disagreement becomes a personal attack, someone is confusing who they ARE with what they DO. When you inject ego into threads, it seldom turns out well.

kay

I think that is the time when things go out hand -- when one's ego is slighted.

People can always agree to disagree yet some find it hard to accept that their beliefs are wrong or their opinions are off-tangent.

[Harvey Segal]

Originally Posted by Killer Joe

Perhaps if we adopted a protocol where "IMO" (in my opinion) was included in every sentence things would go smoother.

I suggest we use the "." (period) as the defacto symbol.

So from now on, everytime you see a sentence that ends with a period you simply mentally insert the 'imo' and life will be easier.

And yes, I ended that last sentence with a period.

KJ

How about if we change the forum software to have an
option to insert IMO at the end of every sentence.

Then if we find an opinionated person we give them an infraction
to activate this feature.

Harvey

[radhika]

Originally Posted by Zeus66

OK, prepare to be offended. In fact, stop reading now if you don't want to get upset and fire off a nasty PM to me (which is fine by me... I'll probably get a chuckle from it anyway)...

Final warning...

I totally disagree with the OP on this. I'm 180 degrees the other way, in fact. I think what's often lacking from this and other forums is blunt honesty about the opinions of others. What better way to thin the herd and get rid of the mamby-pamby types who want things to be all love and kisses and fluffy bunnies and OH JESUS MAKE IT STOP!!!!

If your opinion is that a clear sky when the sun's at its zenith is any other color than blue, someone dang well needs to tell you to get your eyes checked and to otherwise shut up and sit quietly. This forum is often awash in ridiculous "opinions" that are based on feelings or wishes or something someone told them that the poster then submits as absolute truth without an ounce of testing or doing any research. And you all know it, don't you? If not, get your eyes checked and otherwise shut up and sit quietly. Doodle or something.

Are you entitled to your opinion, even when it's moronic? Yes. Are the rest of us entitled to point out the idiocy of your opinion in those cases? Also yes. Instead of trying to get the rest of us to walk on eggshells around your silly crapola of an opinion to save your precious feelings, take your deserved beating (metaphorically speaking, of course) and learn from it. That's how it SHOULD be. And that's how it probably never will be. But I can dream.

Tsk ... Tsk ... Tsk ...

This post is exactly for people like YOU who FEEL they are damn straight forward, tough, don't like bunnies and kisses and think that saying it on face is a good thing.

Being polite is a very tough thing you know ... Well, you are entitled to your opinion anyways.

.

[Michael Oksa]

Originally Posted by bushwood

It seems there are some who feel they must pounce on anyone not in line with their thinking on an issue. Often it seems to come from know-it-alls who try to bully their opinion onto other less experienced Warriors.

I have to disagree with this slightly. If you've been around the forum long enough, you will often see this attitude from new people, too - only in reverse. They try to bully their opinion onto more experienced Warriors.

In other words, you could be here for 1 day, or 10 years and still come across as a know-it-all. It's not time-dependent.

So...

I was going to write a lengthy tract on this, but decided to sum it up in a few words:

Fact is good.

Tact is better.

All the best,
Michael

[Zeus66]

Originally Posted by radhika

Tsk ... Tsk ... Tsk ...

This post is exactly for people like YOU who FEEL they are damn straight forward, tough, don't like bunnies and kisses and think that saying it on face is a good thing.

I do love bunnies. The young ones are especially tender and superb in a nice rabbit stew with carrots, potatoes, celery. Mmm, MMM! I just don't like letting people who are spouting nonsense do so unchallenged because others have allowed the idiotic notion that "everyone's opinion is just as valid as everyone else's" take hold. Especially in a large public forum like this one with a lot of newbies who are susceptible to soaking up the BS and losing their hard-earned money. Has nothing to do with feelings; everything to do with reality.

Being polite is a very tough thing you know ... Well, you are entitled to your opinion anyways.

Do you know what's harder than being polite? Confronting people who are who are spreading nonsense. It takes a lot of courage to be bluntly honest with such people. The blowback is significant because so many others tend to take the side of the person who deserved to be confronted... all in the name of "being civil" or "getting along" or "respecting their opinion." I'm sorry, but I refuse to play by those rules. If your opinion is based on faulty or non-existent evidence, I believe the polite thing to do is point this out. It may be perceived as impolite by the target of your confrontation and a few others who are also unable or unwilling to go beyond a visceral reaction, but it is eminently polite toward all the others who see the exchange and avoid following the suggestions of the former.

John

[GuerrillaIM]

I think where a lot of people here spend much time promoting their own reputation and advice it can lead to them developing a bit of an ego. The result of this is that they confuse their own opinion with fact.

Something may happen a certain way for me 1000 times but someone else may get different results. It's not always possible to see all the angles.

Having different opinions makes us question our own methods. This process makes us all better marketers.

[Andrew G Gowans]

Originally Posted by Kay King

I'm not sure what your point is. Opinion and fact are not the same. Posters who become irate and defensive when someone challenges their incorrect facts bring the criticism on themselves.

There will be arguments - it's a forum. Best to keep it on a business level rather than personal, but doesn't always happen.

kay

One of the greatest benefits of this forum , in my opinion, is that people from all walks of life and from all parts of the world can talk with each other. It is unfortunate that just occasionally some people talk at each other and, what could have been a lively thread, ends up getting closed.

What's worse is that we all lose out as a consequence.

Opinion is not the same as fact. Opinion, however, can be based on the "facts" as the person has understood them.

If those facts can be proved to be inaccurate, is it not our duty of care to explain the facts that are accurate and explain them in a way that doesn't offend anybody.

In a roundabout way what I am trying to say is that I believe this forum was founded on the principles of helping each other move forward (as well as making money).

One way of helping is to have factually based arguments and debates.

It's not about being thin skinned or thick skinned, it's about being constructive.

Let's keep making the points that need to be made but let's also be prepared to listen to others.

God (or evolution, whatever your personal bag is) gave us one mouth and two ears for a reason.

Andrew G.