Legit Email marketing, your thoughts and results please

[Craig Fenton]

Hi Warriors:

I had three conversations with those in the higher management levels of three email marketing companies about what the average stats are of sales.

They all use double opt in for somebody to be on the list and see the ad, all offer the chance to have the ad written by the creator of the product or their in house people, and all offer USA, USA/Canada.

In the old days of actual marketing through postal mail it would take 400 letters or packets sent in the mail for 1 sale on average. That is 1/4 of a percent.

The places I spoke to differed greatly on what results should be but I thought one of the 3 may have been the closest to the truth. Here is what they told me.

Average email campaign:
5 percent of the emails will be read.
Of the 5 percent that are read, ten percent of those people will go to the offer.
Of those that go to the offer 1 percent will buy.

Do you fine Warriors believe the example above is close to reality for a product with a guarantee and contact information available before the customer purchases?

Any thoughts are appreciated because I have never used any of the email outfits before.

Back late tonight after a business meeting.

Enjoy the weekend.

[Mark .W. James]

Damn.
If thats true, it means they get only 25 sales off a 1 million list.
Its must be a very unresponsive list.

[radhika]

To improve those conversions:

Sublists your list. Though you send your ezine to whole list, promotinal emails goes to the sublists based on their interest.

Another issue here is how clean is your list. If 20% of your list contans bounced email, you shouldn't take those 20% to count the conversions. Best solution is to delete your bounces once in a whle and keep your list clean.

.

[LMC]

I have used bulk mailing lists before, and they do work... somewhat.

You need to use the resource of the company to produce your own list. Don't offer them a product for sale right away.

Pull them in with a free product, with that free product collect all their information including their mailing address.

Send them a flyer in the mail with business information thanking them that they are on your list and they should expect quality information.

Perform 3-5 more informative emails, and then do a promotional email about two weeks after they are on your list.

Follow up with a Flyer mail out to their mailing address.

[DanielFonda]

Originally Posted by Craig Fenton

Hi Warriors:

I had three conversations with those in the higher management levels of three email marketing companies about what the average stats are of sales.

They all use double opt in for somebody to be on the list and see the ad, all offer the chance to have the ad written by the creator of the product or their in house people, and all offer USA, USA/Canada.

In the old days of actual marketing through postal mail it would take 400 letters or packets sent in the mail for 1 sale on average. That is 1/4 of a percent.

The places I spoke to differed greatly on what results should be but I thought one of the 3 may have been the closest to the truth. Here is what they told me.

Average email campaign:
5 percent of the emails will be read.
Of the 5 percent that are read, ten percent of those people will go to the offer.
Of those that go to the offer 1 percent will buy.

Do you fine Warriors believe the example above is close to reality for a product with a guarantee and contact information available before the customer purchases?

Any thoughts are appreciated because I have never used any of the email outfits before.

Back late tonight after a business meeting.

Enjoy the weekend.

I agree- Email marketing isn't that successful any more.

[DanielFonda]

Originally Posted by LMC

I have used bulk mailing lists before, and they do work... somewhat.

You need to use the resource of the company to produce your own list. Don't offer them a product for sale right away.

Pull them in with a free product, with that free product collect all their information including their mailing address.

Send them a flyer in the mail with business information thanking them that they are on your list and they should expect quality information.

Perform 3-5 more informative emails, and then do a promotional email about two weeks after they are on your list.

Follow up with a Flyer mail out to their mailing address.

Yap I agree. It's a good idea to offer something free. Help resolve their problem (on a small scale) for free. And possibly create a bit of credibility. After you've done that. You should be able to make sales.

[DanielFonda]

Originally Posted by Mark .W. James

Damn.
If thats true, it means they get only 25 sales off a 1 million list.
Its must be a very unresponsive list.

It's not because of the list. It's because most of the people today fear of viruses and frauds. You need credibility.

[jasonl70]

open rates can really only be guessed at, since they require html and the images settings of the email client to be turned on.

As far as CTR, that's dependent on a ton of things (the offer, the relationship with the list, the age of the list, etc). I've had as high as 20% of my total list click on a link, and as low as 5%. Note that I am referring to my total list - not just those that opened my email. My conversions from those who click through has always been higher then 1%.

Now, I'm not any sort of guru - 90% of the content I've sent is plr material, and I seriously feel I do a half-assed job of it.. so you should be able to beat those #'s that were quoted to you.

[jasonl70]

Originally Posted by DanielFonda

I agree- Email marketing isn't that successful any more.

Here's yet another instance of someone passing off an opinion as a fact.

How do you think the guru's pull off all of those million dollar launches??? It isn't from web 2.0 sites, bookmarking, articles, classified ad sites, or content sites. It's from their partners and themselves emailing their lists..

[JayXtreme]

Originally Posted by DanielFonda

I agree- Email marketing isn't that successful any more.

LOL... keep on, dude.

You're just leaving it open for the rest of us who are prepared to invest time and resources into list management and leverage

[Jay White]

I think what's actually IN the emails (i.e. copy) has a tremendous influence on the success or failure of a campaign.

But then again, I may be a little biased (points frantically to sig). .

[Loren Woirhaye]

Over time I've found that with a list built on solid value,
nutured with care about 1-2% of subscribers will eventually
become serious customers.

I don't mean buyers of $7 ebooks - around 1% or more, if
you handle it right, will spend $1000s with you.

You don't need a large list to do this, but you do need to work
at proving the value in what you offer.

If you build your list by saying "I'll teach you how to get
something for nothing" do not expect buyers - always
establish and reconfirm that you are there as
a business person.

This is me - if you are a subscriber you know I am a relentless
and engaging email marketer - your results will reflect
your commitment, my level of commitment to email
marketing is intense.

3 years ago the game was different. It was easier
then than it is now. People are more skeptical and hold
on to their wallets tighter. The competition has become
more intense - however if you play at the top of your
game and define YOU as a pre-eminent source for
your subscribers you can win even in a competitive
environment.

[Craig Fenton]

Hi Mark:

That is the point, the email lists (even legit companies) are not going to give a trillion sales in return. If it were that easy to send out a million emails through ABCD Marketing (made up for an example) and you could get 100 sales, anyone would do it. If you had a 100.00 product and spent even 7500.00 for the campaign but received 10,000 in sales, plus 100 new customers people would not think twice.

That is why I am attempting to decipher if the numbers quoted in the start of the thread seem about right.

Enjoy the weekend.

[Shakul]

Well, I got over 20% open rate in only html emails...
Of the 20% emails which are opened around 7 out of 11 go to my site...
and out of these 7 people 1 completes the CPA offer...

Of course, I get these rates when I use highly targeted CPA Offer and my list is highly targeted.

I first make a highly targeted list, and then find the CPA Offer for them and then send them the CPA Offer...

If you list is highly targeted and you have made a good combination between the list and the CPA Offer, then you should get at least 10% open rate and at least 50% of the people who opens your email should go to your CPA offer page and then after that it depends on the CPA offer that how many converts. Some time only 1 out of 30 converts, some time 1 out of 7 converts...It all depends on the CPA Offer...

Also, need to make sure that your emails hits the inbox and your IP address isnt get listed in spamhaus, and if it get listed, then immidiately stop emailing and wait for around 6 hours and it will get de listed automatically or you can request its delisting...

If you have any questions, please let me know..

Regards
Shakul

[Craig Fenton]

Hi Loren:

How about in your mind I ask you an analytical question please. First thank you for the reply.

Here we go. You and I have the same product, same cost, same reputation, same guarantee and same budget.

We both use ABCD Marketing to send out (for example) 1,000,000 emails. You are not having your ad looking to sell the customer. You want to get them to a site and cultivate a relationship with free material. You do this for several emails before attempting the offer of a sale.

I take the ABCD Marketing list and use the ad to promote the product the first time around.

At the end of a month how many more sales would you want than I to have been worth the extra time for additional emails being sent, adding free content to the site, and so on.

Thanks and enjoy the weekend.

[Craig Fenton]

Hi Radhika:

Thank you for your post.

Enjoy the weekend.

[Craig Fenton]

Hi Jay:

I understand being a writer/author/speaker about the content. I am sure you are superlative at what you do. My example was for exact averages. I need to see if it is worth paying a given company money to send out emails targeted to those that would be interested in the product.

Having never used the service before I don't know what to expect. I want to go in with a feeling that when it is all said and done even if I broke even with the sales of the product vs the cost of the email, I learned something and it may pan out because the customers that purchase the product may recommend it to others. Down the road additional monies could still be viable.

Thanks so much!

[Craig Fenton]

Hi Jason:

Thanks for post but let us please divide the term email list into 2 sections. I am not talking about any marketer of popularity or obscurity doing well from their own list or a friends. My question was based on using an outside company that would target the emails based on the product. If your neighbor sold video software and wanted that marketed the emails would go to that segment.

Thanks for your time and have a great weekend.

[Craig Fenton]

Hi Daniel:

Thanks for your post and enjoy the weekend.

[Mark Riddle]

Craig,

That's why those companies are in the email marketing business, they will yield a higher return by providing services than by product sales.

What that means is they don't have relationships with the lists, and I think its safe to say they also are not talking about multiple mailings to the same list.

Those are in the range of spam rates with scraped lists.

If you paid little or nothing for the names, and were not using your own computer resources to send the emails, you could make a profit with those kinds of rates all day long.

Email isn't supposed to be a mass marketing media.

Take for example, if you ran one single ad in the super bowl, how many widgets do you think you would sell if they had never heard of you ?

List selection is critical in any direct marketing venture, email lists perhaps its even more critical.

With mail at least it made it into the prospects hands, even if it only made it to the waste basket.

Mark Riddle

[Craig Fenton]

Hi Mark:

Thank you for your post. Can you clarify something please. I am sorry for being confused.

Are you telling me regardless of pitfalls if I use the fictitious name I made up ABCD Marketing that with all the pitfalls of lists being old or outdated and they not having a relationship with the customers I should be able to at least have the sales dollars = the cost of the campaign?

Obviously I am used to marketing. The 2 books, the lectures, and the new writing/speaking course has afforded me an interesting amount of promotional knowledge but never (not even once) on the email marketing side.

As mentioned in one of the replies I would not have any revisionist history and feel fine if the campaign at least broke even. It would give me an new experience and there is always the chance with the quality of the product somebody that buys can recommend it to a friend, family member, or business associate and future sails can deride from word of mouth.

Thank you for your time and response.

[Loren Woirhaye]

Hi Craig,

If you are talking about renting a big list which is frequently
rented, blasted with offers, and generally abused... well -
I blew several thousand dollars at one point with that
sort of thing.

Bulk emailing somebody else's list is a crapshoot with email.

With direct mail there are standards that list owners typically
adhere to in order to preserve the responsiveness and value
of the lists.

Be very cautious of seeking easy exposure to a wide market
with what basically amounts to spamming. I have done
such things and been bitterly disappointed.

I guess I sort of misunderstood your question. It is one of
metrics and to a large extent price point. You really would
do well to study direct mail. Get Bill Myers' "Direct Mail
BootCamp" - and read the Gary Halbert letters too -
you can get seriously reamed renting lists. Joe Sugarman's
books are good too and will give you a stark dose of
reality.

It seems to me you are wanting to do a single-stage direct
response marketing promotion. These can be very risky -
you have to really be cagey about list selection, your
offer, and copywriting. It all matters.

Large "house lists" are the riskiest. The best direct response
lists are generally highly targeted and grouped around very
specific interests. Don't assume email is any different. They
can even F you over by allowing you to "test" a smaller
segment - what they won't tell you is they are pulling out
the recent buyers for a product like yours - and the test
will go well and you'll get greedy and rent the whole list...
and as Halbert said "get crucified".

These are shark-infested waters.

###

You also asked:

"You and I have the same product, same cost, same reputation, same guarantee and same budget."

And I ask you why you expect to have a reputation? Unless
you are a national brand or are mailing to your own list you
are going to be an unknown so in my opinion reputation is
not a factor.

The OFFER is the number 1 factor. "branding" is an opiate
people who don't know how to create profitable direct-response
feed their clients to keep getting money out of them. In the
greater scheme of customer retention and putting products
on store shelves it matters to some degree, but for a small
direct marketer it's a non-issue - of course if you are selling
an information product you should claim expertise in your copy,
but that is not a reputation, it's bragging - which has some
value but in the end the reader will go look at the order form
first and if he likes the offer he'll read the whole letter to
find out what's in it for him.

[Craig Fenton]

Hi Loren:

Thanks for your help as always. The company I am considering using in order for your name to be on the list they say the person had to double opt-in. I would never want to spam any consumer on the planet.

I am vacillating back and forth on making the decision to go with the email. As a test run I would not try anything too expensive. I would be fine with even break-even results but losing money would be tough to swallow.

Thanks and enjoy the weekend.

[Mark Riddle]

Craig,

I have no idea what the costs they quoted to you are, so I couldn't answer that.

My Guess is they will be the only ones making money on your project.

Remember even those numbers are averages not hard numbers, which is a nice way of saying your project may do considerably worse than projected.

I would find it hard to believe that it would be worth the costs for a "Chance" of 50 sales in a million tries.

I do believe the numbers being shown tells me other options would make more sense.

Craig, what is more important at this point are your expectations.

Playing to break even is a losing game, the mindset is off.

This mindset will do more harm than good.

Mark Riddle

[Craig Fenton]

Hi Mark:

Thanks for reply. I may not have articulated my words correctly. I would never play to break even for the entire game or I would not have the books, lectures, and other assorted items successful. For the email segment only if I went with it the reason I could be content with breaking even is I have never ventured into the territory before and it would give me a new marketing experience. Since time is not a factor (the ad is written if I decide to go with the email campaign) they send out the emails, the learning of new information can be a valuable lesson.

What if it turns out I make a profit? I now have the knowledge that it can be one of a myriad of tools to promote. Never would I not have as positive of a mind set as you will find. I also have to be open to new exploration as long as it is not massive amounts of money lost in the river. I wouldn't invest thousands as a test campaign. I would consider the smallest trial package to see.

I hope that clarifies the difference between total mind set for all projects and mindset for 1 experimental segment.

Have a great day.

[Mark Riddle]

Craig,

Yes that makes a great difference.

But bottom line I think there are better choices for your budget

Mark

[Craig Fenton]

Hi Mark:

I made sure (as is proper to thank you a couple of times for your suggestions).

Let's please go with the premise that email marketing isn't the way to go. What methods would you recommend where I could pay and see results that you feel are advantageous? I try to cover the free approach for any product with (no order)
Website
Blog
Forum Posts
Free Ad Sites
Article Writing
Social Networking Sites
Video Sites
Author/Writing Sites
Yahoo/Google Groups

Thank you as always!

[Mark Riddle]

Craig,

I think you would do well to invest in press releases you can test with free sites, PR.com and move up to webwire.com and prweb.com

Hire a Release writer, that makes a huge difference unless you are familiar with press writing.

Find JV partners that would be compatible with your product lines.

Keep a fairly narrow focus on who you are targeting.

While its easy to say that everyone would benefit from speaking and writing improvement, its only the people who are looking for speaking and writing improvement that are your prospects

Webinars - Teleseminars - are also great.

If you find a email list of buyers for public speaking products, that would be a better choice than a general list.

If you know your conversion rate for your page, you can consider buy targeted traffic, such as pay per click ads, or buying ads in targeted newsletters.

Take the list of sites that you listed and see which of those targeted sites take advertising, or do joint ventures.

Do you have an affiliate program ?

Investing to attract affiliates could be more worthwhile than investing to drive traffic directly.

Even with the free methods you listed above, when you know your conversion numbers it could be worth it to hire out the tasks of finding and submitting to the various free methods you have already mentioned.

Mark

[Craig Fenton]

Hi Mark:

Thank you for the plethora of great information. It is appreciated!

The superlative news is by word of mouth (not even from contacting them) I have some colleges wanting proposals for the writing/speaking course on a large scale. I'm excited about the new venture and have always put heart/soul into the books and lectures.

May everything in your personal and business life be paramount.