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Unread 13th June 2013, 07:06 AM   #1
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Default This is how you get SCAMMED online!




STOP AND THINK!
STOP AND THINK!
STOP AND THINK!
STOP AND THINK!
STOP AND THINK!
STOP AND THINK!
STOP AND THINK!

How many of the above example have you seen so far? Hundreds, right?

What if I told you there are numerous threads on marketing forums that teaches you exactly how you can scam people out of their money by selling them a pipe-dream. Complete guides that teaches you the Psychological triggers to use, how to setup a salespage (Like the above) to trick innocent people out of their money.

They will even do it in a way, so you thank them for 600 pages of useless information that they probably put together from 50 different sources to have a product of their own.

Exact copy/paste from the scamming guide:
There is another angle. A person who is reading a PDF file that he paid $47 bucks for is paying attention. You have a captive audience, so make a sales pitch. Tell him that he can raise his earnings “up a notch,” or “take it to the next level” or some other bullshit phrase that sounds good. Then offer him some other stuff. Make sure your pitch about his imaginary wealth takes it to the next level, too, so he thinks he is going to get even richer than before.
(Do any "OTO's" come to mind?)

Just ONE of these scamming guides has been read by more than 110,000 people. How many dishonest people do you think are among these, that would actually put it to use?

This Forum is visited by tens of thousands of people every single day. It's a great place for scammers to lurk around - Be cautious what you buy into, not everything is what it seems to be.

I have recognized far too many of the examples I just made above, even here on WF.

This is in no-way discrediting any of the current WSO's that are built up in this way. Simply a friendly tip for anyone out there looking to get into IM. Be very cautious what you buy into. Always get as much information as possible about the product you're going to purchase. If the information is vague, it's usually not a good sign.

I spent 10 minutes, making the ad above. If I had spent a bit longer, removed the sarcasm and the obvious joke-text. I would have an A+ ad that hundreds of people would fall into immediately.

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Unread 13th June 2013, 07:15 AM   #2
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Default Re: This is how you get SCAMMED online!

I have seen many scams like that, funny thing today just by accident I asked my Mom what was she doing, she said I am purchasing a guide how to earn 5000 months. Well it was pure luck i was there to stop.

Moral of the story, in my country we have different languages so we did not have scam like that only until recently, now scams like this you can find in every language. It scares me how older people fall for this.

p.s. It was very similiar site to the one you have made, because they all similar, happy people, photo of checks, bank accounts with huge amount money and so on.

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Unread 13th June 2013, 07:20 AM   #3
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Default Re: This is how you get SCAMMED online!

There are scams in every form of life. Internet Marketing is just one of them. Most scams rely on those who are vulnerable or naive. Think with your head and not with your heart. Use common sense and you should be fine.

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Unread 13th June 2013, 07:25 AM   #4
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Default Re: This is how you get SCAMMED online!

Where is the buy button?.....lol

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Unread 13th June 2013, 07:25 AM   #5
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Default Re: This is how you get SCAMMED online!

Common sense is all you need.

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Unread 13th June 2013, 07:39 AM   #6
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Default Re: This is how you get SCAMMED online!

Nice work lol. I'm really enjoying the "WSO", maybe I might even buy it!

However, scams and unsubstantiated claims have been made....forever. It's just that with the opening up of the internet to the public in the last 25 years, it just gives people another avenue to scam.

Unfortunately, there will always be gullible people, who don't use their processing centers (brains) to actually parse out whether the info is true or now.

Just how life is

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Unread 13th June 2013, 07:49 AM   #7
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Default Re: This is how you get SCAMMED online!

From my point of view, WF should heavily clean up their WSO section.

Perhaps implement some sort of product quality check, before WSO's are launched.

For those of us with an ACTUAL product, it's impossible to use "white-hat" marketing techniques, because every other thread is promising away millions (which people fall for), so when you have a real opportunity, and you don't want to mislead your customers, it won't shine through in the jungle of promising millionaire makers.

If John Doe wants to get into marketing and he's presenting with 30 offers promoting him to copy/paste methods that made other people 50,000$ in a month. And a single one with a realistic promise. He will still pick one of the 30 others, because greed makes John naive. So once he finds out that doesn't work, John will try out maybe 5 other millionaire-makers before he finally gives up. Leaving any real opportunities left behind.

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Unread 13th June 2013, 08:06 AM   #8
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Default Re: This is how you get SCAMMED online!

Absolutely.

WF should do thorough checks of products that are going to be featured in the WSO.

If any claims are made, these claims must be evaluated if they are realistic based on the business model presented.

Titles and ads should be cleaned up to only show and tell exactly what the product is.

Not a title like [WSO OF THE DAY] I MADE $300,000 LAST MONTH, HERE'S MY SYSTEM.

Well, guys. Nobody makes $300,000 without already having been in the business for years and having built a huge list/product already. Even if that person gives out his exact methods, they would be no where near replicable for 99,99% of the buyers.

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Unread 13th June 2013, 08:10 AM   #9
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Default Re: This is how you get SCAMMED online!

People fall for scams all the time, just look at who's in the White House right now. His whole campaign was a walking talking squeeze page.

Anyway, back on topic ... It doesn't necessarily make something a scam simply because they use this style of copywriting. The scammers didn't invent the "squeeze page", they simply took what worked and used it to perpetuate their scams. The fact is the message resonates with a lot of people, because those of us who have found success online have likely gone through a ton of failures before getting there, and those of us who haven't would love to have access to the mind of someone who's "been there" and skip all of that trial and error. There are two ways to make money in this world ... you can monetize your labor, or you can monetize your knowledge. I try constantly to teach this to web designers, because they all have a tendency to charge for their time but not for the knowledge they have acquired.

The wealthiest people in the world are wealthy because they KNOW things other people don't, not because they're sitting there "doing the work". But not everyone is at that point in their career path yet, so their only way to make an income is to monetize their labor, and that's where the perfect blend of teacher and student come together and win. Those who feel more comfortable monetizing their labor can do so by getting access to the knowledge of someone who's already been there.

Knocking the pitch style simply because it's "also used by scammers" is like saying you shouldn't use PayPal because scammers also use PayPal to launder money. The key is to do your homework, and look at WHO is posting. If Donald Trump wrote a book revealing the secret formula he uses to buy commercial real estate and flip it for a profit, people would listen, because they know he's done it successfully.

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Unread 13th June 2013, 08:16 AM   #10
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Default Re: This is how you get SCAMMED online!

The problem is that the honest sellers are not taking in consideration just because they're not capable to offer the "miracles" as all the fake one are giving.
I have the same problem in trying to explain to others that there are no miracle neither in Software, neither in Real Estate and, of course, neither in REAL LIFE.
Thank you for this post but still will be few that will read and will be fewer that will take a lesson from it. We're all running for the Mermaids and we're hoping that they will kiss us )))
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Unread 13th June 2013, 08:25 AM   #11
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Default Re: This is how you get SCAMMED online!

I see what you're saying Ron - and I never said that just because people are using this setup to build an ad, it means they are scammers.

I however think, if you're a serious seller, with a serious product, you should focus on selling the actual product and not the promise of getting rich beyond reality. That's where most scammers are filtered out.

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Unread 13th June 2013, 08:30 AM   #12
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Default Re: This is how you get SCAMMED online!

Haha, nice work breaking down the good old fashioned sales page there. I especially like the picture of the guy standing next to someone else's Ferrari!

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Unread 13th June 2013, 08:44 AM   #13
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Default Re: This is how you get SCAMMED online!

Quote:
Originally Posted by FortyNick View Post
What if I told you there are numerous threads on marketing forums that teaches you exactly how you can scam people out of their money by selling them a pipe-dream.

"The Golden Town is the Golden Town no longer. They have sold their pillars for brass and their temples for money, they have made coins out of their golden doors. It is become a dark town full of trouble, there is no ease in its streets, beauty has left it and the old songs are gone." - Lord Dunsany, The Messengers
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Unread 13th June 2013, 08:46 AM   #14
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Default Re: This is how you get SCAMMED online!

I thought I was in the WSO section for a minute there...

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Unread 13th June 2013, 08:48 AM   #15
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Default Re: This is how you get SCAMMED online!

I got scammed a few times too. Last time it was with empower network. But it is not because I am silly . I wanted to give it a try and especially learn something new. I fully understand that there are no easy money.

I also got scammed while selling a physical product abroad. And the worst part of that - no one was willing to help me - post office, police, they just let it go. Some experiences seem to be way too expensive.

I love one WSO in this forum, where you need to pay $100 just to learn how much will the personal coaching be What in a world is that? And the explanation is to separate those active and willing to move to the next level and to higher earnings. OMG!

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Unread 13th June 2013, 09:34 AM   #16
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Default Re: This is how you get SCAMMED online!

The world is full of scams. But the truth is that when you go for genuine products there are no sale. I am from India and skin color is very important in our country. So there is a huge market of products which makes skin fairer. These advertisements are so hyped that despite the known truth people buy them madly. But what if these companies say that there is no magic but yes these products will keep your skin nourished and good looking. I bet, there will hardly be any sales to even get them at their break even point.

There are lot of WSO's which are hyped and have good sales (100s of copies first day). But there are genuine WSO's also whose sales copy does not claim any hyped unbelievable promises have either no or very low sale.

So I think the author is forced to make a hyped sales copy to get their sales. But this way the genuine ones are the most affected.

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Unread 13th June 2013, 10:02 AM   #17
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Default Re: This is how you get SCAMMED online!



Sorry I couldnt resist it.
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Unread 13th June 2013, 10:54 AM   #18
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Default Re: This is how you get SCAMMED online!

Wait, where is the buy button? I think this is the one.
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Unread 13th June 2013, 11:01 AM   #19
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Default Re: This is how you get SCAMMED online!

Quote:
Originally Posted by FortyNick View Post
I spent 10 minutes, making the ad above. If I had spent a bit longer, removed the sarcasm and the obvious joke-text. I would have an A+ ad that hundreds of people would fall into immediately.
Serious question: Do you have any resources where an artistically-challenged guy like myself can learn enough graphic design to make a sales page like the one you've shown here?

Not to scam people of course, but to sell real products.
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Unread 13th June 2013, 11:11 AM   #20
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Default Re: This is how you get SCAMMED online!

The word "scam" is used far too broadly these days, and I wonder about the intelligence levels of those who cry "scam" at any given opportunity:

WSO hasn't worked for me . . . scam!
Mentor didn't make me money . . . scam!
MLM returned nothing . . . scam!
Free Traffic system a waste of time . . . scam!

You get the picture. And it's the same offline:

Plumber left the tap leaking . . . scam!
Mechanic sold me a faulty car . . . scam!
Builder left my wall wonky . . . scam!
Wrinkle cream didn't work . . . scam!


Listen up people. The majority of these are not scams at all, it's called LIFE. People have offered goods and services since time immemorial and there has always been fair goods and services, and crap goods and services. It's up to each individual to use due diligence before opting for either, and as human beings are the most advanced creatures on the planet with the ability to think and reason, why don't you simply USE YOUR BRAIN.

There are two types of sellers:

* Honest sellers
* Dishonest sellers

There are two types of buyers:

* Smart buyers
* Foolish buyers

Do the maths. There are only four possible outcomes. Here's the preschool explanation for those who still don't get it . . .

Honest seller meets smart buyer = no problem
Honest seller meets foolish buyer = no problem
Dishonest seller meets smart buyer = no problem
Dishonest seller meets foolish buyer = PROBLEM

So what does this tell you?

It tells you that it's not the honest seller, the dishonest seller, or the smart buyer that's the problem. It's the FOOLISH BUYER.

Without foolish buyers the dishonest seller has no-one to sell to. Without foolish buyers the dishonest seller wouldn't exist. But as long as there are foolish buyers, dishonest sellers will flourish.

It's far easier to educate foolish buyers than eradicate dishonest sellers. Unfortunately that's not going to happen. As long as there's still a good quota of stupid, single braincell fools who dive unprotected into shark infested waters, there will be sharks there to eat them.

If you've been scammed don't look to the WF for support, and don't look to government or law enforcement agencies either. None of these can ever change what's happened or fully prevent it happening again in the future. That's a fact.

Instead, look in the mirror. There you'll find the only person in the whole world who can GUARANTEE you'll never be scammed again.
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Unread 13th June 2013, 11:16 AM   #21
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Default Re: This is how you get SCAMMED online!

Quote:
Originally Posted by FortyNick View Post
From my point of view, WF should heavily clean up their WSO section.

Perhaps implement some sort of product quality check, before WSO's are launched.

For those of us with an ACTUAL product, it's impossible to use "white-hat" marketing techniques, because every other thread is promising away millions (which people fall for), so when you have a real opportunity, and you don't want to mislead your customers, it won't shine through in the jungle of promising millionaire makers.

If John Doe wants to get into marketing and he's presenting with 30 offers promoting him to copy/paste methods that made other people 50,000$ in a month. And a single one with a realistic promise. He will still pick one of the 30 others, because greed makes John naive. So once he finds out that doesn't work, John will try out maybe 5 other millionaire-makers before he finally gives up. Leaving any real opportunities left behind.
I think the Warrior Forum should implement a rating system for all WSO's.

They could make it so that only product purchasers could rate the WSO.

I'm thinking it could have a few variables:

The product delivered on its promise. [Rate 1 to 10]
The product provided real value. [Rate 1 to 10]
I am satisfied with my purchase overall. [Rate 1 to 10]

Etc.

I don't know how they would implement this, but it could definitely clean up the WSO section and prevent a LOT of scams from going on for very long. They could also set it up like Amazon reviews where you can read specific reviews and see how many people rated it at 1 star, 2 stars, 3, etc.
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Unread 13th June 2013, 11:23 AM   #22
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Default Re: This is how you get SCAMMED online!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Curtis2011 View Post
Serious question: Do you have any resources where an artistically-challenged guy like myself can learn enough graphic design to make a sales page like the one you've shown here?

Not to scam people of course, but to sell real products.
I'm a graphic designer myself and my advice for anyone who not already has a flair for design, don't start.

Graphic design is so much more than just being able to use a program like photoshop/illustrator. You need to know colours, layouts etc. Nothing that you can easily teach yourself over a few courses to fully understand.

There's a reason why it takes several years to become a designer, some have it in them and others simply don't. If you don't, you should rather hire a professional that knows what he's doing.

You might be good off using a pre-made template, but I'm not sure where you would find such for salespages.

Feel free to contact me directly if you have any other questions

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Unread 13th June 2013, 11:30 AM   #23
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Default Re: This is how you get SCAMMED online!

@Horny Devil

You have some valid points, but my clear oppinion is that everytime you have a dishonest seller = PROBLEM

He just shouldn't be given the opportunity in the first place. Specially not in a place like WF where all WSO's are undergoing checks before they get up.

Of course the WSO part of WF is a huge moneymaker for the owners, but letting too much crap pass, will slowly destroy the quality of this forum.

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Unread 13th June 2013, 11:48 AM   #24
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Default Re: This is how you get SCAMMED online!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Curtis2011 View Post
Serious question: Do you have any resources where an artistically-challenged guy like myself can learn enough graphic design to make a sales page like the one you've shown here?

Not to scam people of course, but to sell real products.
Hello Curtis...

There are some really cool plugins available now to create sales pages like a pro...the one I use is InstaBuilder located here...
InstaBuilder - Mobile-Ready Landing Pages in Minutes (not an affiliate link)

Hope this helps...
Deb
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Unread 13th June 2013, 12:44 PM   #25
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Default Re: This is how you get SCAMMED online!

this made my laugh hard. What font it is? Ironically I want to use it for my WSO but mine is an actual product I had coded. Rather than some training course I invented that would only ever make me money.

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Unread 13th June 2013, 01:02 PM   #26
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Default Re: This is how you get SCAMMED online!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Horny Devil View Post
The word "scam" is used far too broadly these days, and I wonder about the intelligence levels of those who cry "scam" at any given opportunity:

WSO hasn't worked for me . . . scam!
Mentor didn't make me money . . . scam!
MLM returned nothing . . . scam!
Free Traffic system a waste of time . . . scam!

You get the picture. And it's the same offline:

Plumber left the tap leaking . . . scam!
Mechanic sold me a faulty car . . . scam!
Builder left my wall wonky . . . scam!
Wrinkle cream didn't work . . . scam!


Listen up people. The majority of these are not scams at all, it's called LIFE. People have offered goods and services since time immemorial and there has always been fair goods and services, and crap goods and services. It's up to each individual to use due diligence before opting for either, and as human beings are the most advanced creatures on the planet with the ability to think and reason, why don't you simply USE YOUR BRAIN.

There are two types of sellers:

* Honest sellers
* Dishonest sellers

There are two types of buyers:

* Smart buyers
* Foolish buyers

Do the maths. There are only four possible outcomes. Here's the preschool explanation for those who still don't get it . . .

Honest seller meets smart buyer = no problem
Honest seller meets foolish buyer = no problem
Dishonest seller meets smart buyer = no problem
Dishonest seller meets foolish buyer = PROBLEM

So what does this tell you?

It tells you that it's not the honest seller, the dishonest seller, or the smart buyer that's the problem. It's the FOOLISH BUYER.

Without foolish buyers the dishonest seller has no-one to sell to. Without foolish buyers the dishonest seller wouldn't exist. But as long as there are foolish buyers, dishonest sellers will flourish.

It's far easier to educate foolish buyers than eradicate dishonest sellers. Unfortunately that's not going to happen. As long as there's still a good quota of stupid, single braincell fools who dive unprotected into shark infested waters, there will be sharks there to eat them.

If you've been scammed don't look to the WF for support, and don't look to government or law enforcement agencies either. None of these can ever change what's happened or fully prevent it happening again in the future. That's a fact.

Instead, look in the mirror. There you'll find the only person in the whole world who can GUARANTEE you'll never be scammed again.
I just had to repost this because I was already thinking this in my head scrolling
down this thread when I read this comment.

Couldn't have said it better!

Perfect example is a guy on this very thread saying he got scammed by Empower
Network. How the heck did that happen?

They sell a blog and a bunch of upsells that are marketing information courses.
There's no refund policy. This info is very easy to look up on the net being that
that company is widely known.

In a way it is kind of funny. There is some amazing copy being written
on some of these sales pages and videos and a lot of newcomers/newbies
think they just hit the lotto.

Then they pay and get to the product and realize they actually have to do a little
bit of work!

SCAM!
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Unread 13th June 2013, 01:04 PM   #27
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Default Re: This is how you get SCAMMED online!

Lol, that sales page pretty much sums it up, you left out his friends posting things like " YOU MUST BE OUT YOUR MIND FOR SELLING THIS AT SUCH A LOW PRICE, RAISE THE PRICE " or " Joe Blow has done it again "


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Unread 13th June 2013, 01:17 PM   #28
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Default Re: This is how you get SCAMMED online!

Quote:
Originally Posted by FortyNick View Post
@Horny Devil

He just shouldn't be given the opportunity in the first place. Specially not in a place like WF where all WSO's are undergoing checks before they get up.
FortyNick,

I think you are confused. The WSO section is an advertising section and offers are not vetted before going live. Do you expect your newspaper or favorite magazine to review every single thing being sold before accepting the money?

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Unread 13th June 2013, 01:20 PM   #29
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Default Re: This is how you get SCAMMED online!

Haha I love when humor can enter the world of internet marketing, because I really "get it" and it is sad when many people fall for this, the quick-fixes.

This is also a fine line for me to walk, and for all us doing marketing; how do we balance what results the use of our products can really deliver and not? (I've touched on this issue in another thread long ago)

However, I love the humor and I would also say; "A 100 % GUARANTEE TO MAKE YOU FEEL SAFER ABOUT YOUR STUPID DECISION YOU ARE ABOUT TO DO DUE TO PERSONAL IMPULSIVE ISSUES. THANKS IN ADVANCE FOR WASTING YOUR MONEY ONE ME" (only pun-intended, joke intended, no offense to any marketer using guarantee-technique).

Take Care & Have An Awesome Day, Dear Warriors! / Max "MaxTheMarketer" K.

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Unread 13th June 2013, 01:25 PM   #30
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Default Re: This is how you get SCAMMED online!

That's an awful lot of work just to whine about the same thing that many others have already whined about. There's the door...don't let it hit you on the ass on your way out.

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Unread 13th June 2013, 01:25 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Valdor Kiebach View Post


Sorry I couldnt resist it.
Hehehe... love it!

You know why people get scammed online, it's because they are greedy and want to get rich fast, don't realize that it's a business...
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Unread 13th June 2013, 01:26 PM   #32
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Man, that car looks good.
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Unread 13th June 2013, 01:28 PM   #33
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What... so this person charging me $17 isn't going to teach me how to make $3,000 a week while working 20 minutes a day? Damn...

I'm on hiatus from writing until my website is set up. For pricing information, PM me or add me to Skype.
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Unread 13th June 2013, 01:29 PM   #34
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Too bad the buy now button doesn't work... i was about to order and make my $1,000,000 within these next 2 days. I could use a pool in the backyard.

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Unread 13th June 2013, 01:34 PM   #35
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Interesting thread - for me, pictures of helicopters, flash cars, exotic holiday destination et al put me off any sales pitch, so if I saw the guy standing next to someone else's Ferrari, I would immediately click off the page.

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Unread 13th June 2013, 01:41 PM   #36
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Quote:
Use common sense and you should be fine.
I just don't understand HOW anyone can fall for this. Is it REALLY that easy to make $500K/annually?
Anyone watch American Greed on CNBC? How do intelligent, educated people fall for these scams.? They break EVER rule of investing.
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Unread 13th June 2013, 01:44 PM   #37
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His whole campaign was a walking talking squeeze page.
I was taking a sip of soda when I read this...The soda is all over my desk!
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Unread 13th June 2013, 02:12 PM   #38
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A George Carlin CLASSIC..I listened to it TWICE!
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Unread 13th June 2013, 02:20 PM   #39
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You forget to show a a picture of a tiny flat before and expensive house after...

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Unread 13th June 2013, 04:12 PM   #40
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Vetting products before approving ads is not a feasible process. Too many topics on which we'd need experts, and too many products coming through.

Even if it were practical, it wouldn't stop the complaints. Some folks scream scam at any tiny inconvenience, even if they created it.

Software doesn't run on a Mac? SCAM! (The ad specified, in red type just above the order button, that it was PC-only.)

Software requires Adobe Air? SCAM! (Seller mentioned that several times in the ad.)

This isn't a Wordpress plugin, you LIAR! (She never said it was.)

The seller won't deliver my product. SCAM! (The seller tried to help with the download issues, and dozens of people had posted comments indicating they'd downloaded it successfully.)

I already knew this. This is rehashed crap. SCAM! (If you're familiar with the topic, why didn't you PM the seller and ask about it?)

Then there are the "I can't make this work" and "This is too much work" problems. Different beasts, to be sure, but they're also prone to yelling about their own failings as though they were someone else's fault.

This is only relevant to your suggestion in the sense that it shows why, even if we could do what you think is "necessary," it wouldn't solve the problem. The majority of complaints I see are closer to the ones I listed than to actual scams.

As far as income promises... I'm on the record publicly and privately on that one. I think they should be forbidden here entirely. But I don't make the rules.

As far as a "buyer-only" rating system... That's pretty much what we have now. Doing it as a "summed up in 1-5 stars" way isn't going to help. It's too easily gamed, and it would create at least as many problems as it solved.

Aside from that, it would require that the forum somehow have access to one or more databases listing every buyer of every product. The legal and technical issues with such a system are huge. Even assuming the various other systems were willing to allow it, which I very much doubt they would be.


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Unread 13th June 2013, 04:19 PM   #41
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You should consider a career in copywriting.
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Unread 13th June 2013, 04:25 PM   #42
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I thought I was the only one who was confused as to why people are buying all these cheap "ebooks" on how to get rich quick.

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Unread 13th June 2013, 04:34 PM   #43
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Thanks - best advice one can get for free...

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Unread 13th June 2013, 04:38 PM   #44
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Default Re: This is how you get SCAMMED online!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post
Vetting products before approving ads is not a feasible process. Too many topics on which we'd need experts, and too many products coming through.

Even if it were practical, it wouldn't stop the complaints. Some folks scream scam at any tiny inconvenience, even if they created it.

Software doesn't run on a Mac? SCAM! (The ad specified, in red type just above the order button, that it was PC-only.)

Software requires Adobe Air? SCAM! (Seller mentioned that several times in the ad.)

This isn't a Wordpress plugin, you LIAR! (She never said it was.)

The seller won't deliver my product. SCAM! (The seller tried to help with the download issues, and dozens of people had posted comments indicating they'd downloaded it successfully.)

I already knew this. This is rehashed crap. SCAM! (If you're familiar with the topic, why didn't you PM the seller and ask about it?)

Then there are the "I can't make this work" and "This is too much work" problems. Different beasts, to be sure, but they're also prone to yelling about their own failings as though they were someone else's fault.

This is only relevant to your suggestion in the sense that it shows why, even if we could do what you think is "necessary," it wouldn't solve the problem. The majority of complaints I see are closer to the ones I listed than to actual scams.

As far as income promises... I'm on the record publicly and privately on that one. I think they should be forbidden here entirely. But I don't make the rules.

As far as a "buyer-only" rating system... That's pretty much what we have now. Doing it as a "summed up in 1-5 stars" way isn't going to help. It's too easily gamed, and it would create at least as many problems as it solved.

Aside from that, it would require that the forum somehow have access to one or more databases listing every buyer of every product. The legal and technical issues with such a system are huge. Even assuming the various other systems were willing to allow it, which I very much doubt they would be.


Paul
The biggest prob with WF and especially WSO's is the shocking lack of regularity, transparency and research into whether the WSO's are credible and genuine.

Ie, how many times have you read a line similar to this....."Discover how to earn xxx$'s per month using this system....proof inside"

These "proofs" can be photo shopped by almost anyone. And yet, on the strength of this, WF continues to let this stuff be sold on a daily basis.

Paul, I find your answer less than credible. And moreover, irresponsible.

The fact is, you are making so much money form these un-regulated and dis-proven WSO's that, ultimately, when it comes down the buyer, you wash your hands of them and tell them to take it up with the seller.

This attitude to forum marketing simply stinks as it is WF itself that is taking the revenue to sell a lot of these WSO's without first of all; checking to see if its genuine, credible and witholding the credibility of the WF forum.

Major regulation needed.

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Unread 13th June 2013, 04:47 PM   #45
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Default Re: This is how you get SCAMMED online!

That is clever but false logic. I cant remember the math term for it but that is what it is. Ok you may not get a problem when they is a dishonest seller and a smart buyer but that does not make it ok to be dishonest.

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Unread 13th June 2013, 05:51 PM   #46
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Default Re: This is how you get SCAMMED online!

Ross,
Quote:
The fact is, you are making so much money form these un-regulated and dis-proven WSO's that, ultimately, when it comes down the buyer, you wash your hands of them and tell them to take it up with the seller.
You're relatively new, so I'll assume you aren't aware of this, but I don't make a dime off WSO fees. And, as many sellers can attest, I don't care how much someone spends here. If they break the important rules, they're gone.

If you point me to an edited screenshot and it's demonstrably been tampered with, I will nuke that offer and ban the seller, just that quick. I may have to ask some questions, but once I'm sure, they're removed. Same with failure to deliver a product or service, refusal to honor a posted refund policy, and a multitude of other potential problems.

When people report actual problems and give us the details needed to verify their claims, they get dealt with. Quite often ending with an offer being removed and a seller being banned.

There are probably a half dozen people who've posted in this thread who can tell you that from personal experience, having reported actual problem offers.

Reporting problems is easy. Go to the problem post and click the little red triangle to the lower left of the post. Fill in the details, and submit the report. That sends it to the moderators for review.

Like I said - easy. But it does take having specific details, rather than vague feelings. We'll check into the vague feeling reports, too, but they aren't often enough to warrant removing someone.

The post you quoted did not suggest that we leave people to their own devices. It pointed out why two specific suggestions are unworkable.


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Unread 13th June 2013, 06:41 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post
Ross,You're relatively new, so I'll assume you aren't aware of this, but I don't make a dime off WSO fees. And, as many sellers can attest, I don't care how much someone spends here. If they break the important rules, they're gone.

If you point me to an edited screenshot and it's demonstrably been tampered with, I will nuke that offer and ban the seller, just that quick. I may have to ask some questions, but once I'm sure, they're removed. Same with failure to deliver a product or service, refusal to honor a posted refund policy, and a multitude of other potential problems.

When people report actual problems and give us the details needed to verify their claims, they get dealt with. Quite often ending with an offer being removed and a seller being banned.

There are probably a half dozen people who've posted in this thread who can tell you that from personal experience, having reported actual problem offers.

Reporting problems is easy. Go to the problem post and click the little red triangle to the lower left of the post. Fill in the details, and submit the report. That sends it to the moderators for review.

Like I said - easy. But it does take having specific details, rather than vague feelings. We'll check into the vague feeling reports, too, but they aren't often enough to warrant removing someone.

The post you quoted did not suggest that we leave people to their own devices. It pointed out why two specific suggestions are unworkable.


Paul

OK Paul so now your an expert deciphering real proofs from dud? I doubt it.

"If you point me to an edited screenshot and it's demonstrably been tampered with....I will nuke that offer"

So thats now our job as Warriors, detective work????

Obviously not your job......youve been letting it slide for years.

Fact is you cant be bothered to check it out, your either a shareholder, investor or a member of the board making money from this crap.

Paul, your full of shit......your the biggest con man on WF.

And thats saying something on here

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Unread 13th June 2013, 07:07 PM   #48
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Quote:
OK Paul so now your an expert deciphering real proofs from dud? I doubt it.
No, and I never claimed I was. In most cases where an edited screenshot is spotted, it's seen by a member who notices some tiny error that wouldn't happen in a real-life situation.
Quote:
Fact is you cant be bothered to check it out, your either a shareholder, investor or a member of the board making money from this crap.
That is not a fact. It is an incorrect assertion. I am none of those things. I am also not a co-owner, employee, or partner, just to round out the list.

And for the record, I also have no affiliation, financial or otherwise, with WarriorPlus or JV Zoo. I don't even promote WSOs as an affiliate. As far as I can recall, I never have.

As of this moment, I have not run an offer for a paid product in this forum since, I believe, August of 2011. (That may change, but it's true as of now.) For all but 2 or 3 days of 2012, the only thing in my signature was a link to a guide to the forum - which is downloaded directly from the forum, and doesn't pitch any of my products or any affiliate offers.

I find it interesting that people will make these vague assertions about problems and deny that anything is done about them when I can't recall a single instance of them reporting anything to the mods.

See an actual problem? Report it. Watch what happens.


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Unread 13th June 2013, 07:33 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FortyNick View Post

I spent 10 minutes, making the ad above. If I had spent a bit longer, removed the sarcasm and the obvious joke-text. I would have an A+ ad that hundreds of people would fall into immediately.
Nah, you lost me at magic "formular"...

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Unread 13th June 2013, 07:39 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rossm View Post
OK Paul so now your an expert deciphering real proofs from dud? I doubt it.

"If you point me to an edited screenshot and it's demonstrably been tampered with....I will nuke that offer"

So thats now our job as Warriors, detective work????

Obviously not your job......youve been letting it slide for years.

Fact is you cant be bothered to check it out, your either a shareholder, investor or a member of the board making money from this crap.

Paul, your full of shit......your the biggest con man on WF.

And thats saying something on here
While it's understandable one feels very strongly about this topic, people can
argue or debate it without necessarily insulting one's character, right?

As an FYI: years ago the WSO forum was actually free. If memory serves me,
there were (arguably) even more crap - if not scam - WSO offers that time.

A funny thing? I actually (still) have the same tools then and now to check if
the offer is potentially worthless or gold. I check the person's other posts, do
an online search elsewhere, report a (potentially) problematic thread that can
be verified, think how that offer meets my goals, etc.

(Granted, it's not foolproof and it gets tiring. It also often gets tiring trying to
reasonably and realistically explain something when others feel you're making
excuses, especially if because what you say doesn't jibe with their belief/s.)

It probably so happens that others feel it's too much work trying to verify an
offer's claim; that they'd rather let others do that for them, only to be maybe
frustrated if they feel others don't do enough.

Again realistically, one can only do so much. The rest is up to each of us.

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