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Refund advice needed

by Joel Young
21 replies
For the second time in my IM life I've had to ask for a refund on a product. It wasn't a WSO. It was paid for with PayPal, and to request a refund I had to submit a support ticket directly through the helpdesk of the vendor. They state that they try to reply within 24 hours. It has now been 49 hours.

I submitted one more ticket asking about it, and I sent an email as well, but still nothing. The main problem is I see no way to contact the vendor personally; the newsletter does not include a way to make direct contact. This person is a member here at the WF but I have not sent a PM yet (the last PM I sent was to tell of a problem with the sales video page, but I never got an answer, and the problem still exists).

What can I do? File a PayPal dispute that will most likely fail because it's a digital product? Wait and wait for the refund? I'm hoping for a quick resolution so I at least know the guarantee will be honored.

Any advice? Thanks!
#advice #needed #refund
  • Profile picture of the author H.Miller
    I would file a dispute with paypal. Even though its a digital product they will still contact the seller to let them know there is a dispute.
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    • Profile picture of the author David Burnett
      Ya contact paypal I think it's about the only thing you can do right now seeing as the vendor wont get back with you.
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      • Profile picture of the author Joel Young
        Thanks guys. Oddly, when I tried opening a dispute I got this message:
        This transaction cannot be disputed at this time. This is usually because the transaction has not yet been completed. If this is a completed transaction, please double check that the Transaction ID you selected refers to a payment that you sent.
        Strange that more than two days after making the purchase it hasn't been completed yet.
        According the transaction details in my PP account, it does say completed. :confused:
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        • Profile picture of the author David Burnett
          Originally Posted by Joel Young View Post

          Thanks guys. Oddly, when I tried opening a dispute I got this message:

          Strange that more than two days after making the purchase it hasn't been completed yet.
          According the transaction details in my PP account, it does say completed. :confused:
          Hmm that's very weird... If I were you I would call there support team... they could probably get it sorted out really fast.

          That's the only thing I can think of.
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          • Profile picture of the author Joel Young
            The transaction record is strange, too (certain details edited out to retain vendor privacy).

            Jun 17, 2013 Authorization To [vendor], Completed $37.00 USD
            Jun 17, 2013 Temporary Hold By PayPal Placed -$37.00 USD
            Jun 19, 2013 Temporary Hold By PayPal Removed $37.00 USD
            Jun 19, 2013 Debit Card Signature Purchase To [vendor] Completed -$37.00 USD

            Looks like it started to be refunded but then wasn't???


            edit: On second glance that can't be right, either. I didn't ask for a refund until the 18th,
            which isn't even mentioned on the record. Weird...
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            • Profile picture of the author GarrieWilson
              Originally Posted by Joel Young View Post

              Jun 17, 2013 Authorization To [vendor], Completed $37.00 USD
              Jun 17, 2013 Temporary Hold By PayPal Placed -$37.00 USD
              Jun 19, 2013 Temporary Hold By PayPal Removed $37.00 USD
              Jun 19, 2013 Debit Card Signature Purchase To [vendor] Completed -$37.00 USD
              That could mean he has it set to manually accept/approve payments or PayPal thought it might be a fishy transaction. I suspect the 1st.
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              • Profile picture of the author Joel Young
                Issue resolved. Turns out the reason I wanted a refund was due to a misunderstanding of certain aspects of the product as it pertains to doing business in Canada. The support agent cleared it up and I decided to keep the product.

                The reason given for the delay in getting back to me was their system was down for 24 hours and the agent fell behind in processing support tickets.

                Thanks for all the valuable input in this thread. Maybe it will help someone else in the future.


                **sits back to watch how many further replies come from those who don't read the entire thread before replying, lol**
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          • Profile picture of the author owais211
            Banned
            Did you give all the purchase information when you contact their help desk?
            Sometimes people in the help desk department are too lazy to lift a finger with dispute case.
            Try to contact them again to follow up your refund issue.

            When all else fails you can file a dispute over PayPal and that will leave a big scar on them.
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        • Profile picture of the author Alex Blades
          The seller may be busy with personal things. You may want to contact him here first, 49 hour's is not alot of time elapsed, he may just been busy and haven't gotten to your support ticket yet.
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          • Profile picture of the author Joel Young
            Originally Posted by Alex Blades View Post

            ...49 hour's is not alot of time elapsed.
            Except that the helpdesk states a 24-hour reply time.
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            • Profile picture of the author WillR
              Originally Posted by Joel Young View Post

              Except that the helpdesk states a 24-hour reply time.
              Some countries have public holidays you won't be aware of. They may have a special family occasion. It might be the weekend. You just don't know. So don't be jumping all over them if they don't get back to you right within 24 hours. How many companies have told you that in the past and taken longer to respond? I've had that happen plenty of times. It's just life.
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            • Profile picture of the author brutecky
              Originally Posted by Joel Young View Post

              Except that the helpdesk states a 24-hour reply time.
              They state that they will 'try' to respond within 24 hours. They dont state that the absolutely guarantee they will answer within 24 hours. Also you keep saying you have no way of contacting the seller directly. Sure you do, you have a help desk to contact them directly on. What did you think you where going to get the product sellers personal phone number? Come on man just because I buy my son an XBOX doesnt mean Im going to get Steve Ballmers contact info.

              I sell a lot of software and I use paypal, in fact about 90% of my income goes through paypal and as a seller Id say you should wait to file a dispute.

              Really the only reason to ever file a dispute is 1) You didnt get the product, 2) Its very different from what they said .. now I know you got the product, Im going to guess that its not something completely different and that you just dont like it or that you changed your mind or something, which is fine if they have a refund policy. However 49 hours (your counting exactly thats kind of strange) is not a lot of time. And it certainly is not enough time to file a paypal dispute which is basically accusing the seller of fraud.

              Now if they have been fraudulent then thats a different story. But if you just changed your mind or dont like the product or whatever and just want to exercise your right to refund as per a stated policy than I say wait a bit longer.
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              • Profile picture of the author Joel Young
                Originally Posted by brutecky View Post

                ...you keep saying you have no way of contacting the seller directly. Sure you do, you have a help desk to contact them directly on. What did you think you where going to get the product sellers personal phone number? Come on man just because I buy my son an XBOX doesnt mean Im going to get Steve Ballmers contact info.
                A help desk is not direct contact.
                All other vendors I've ever dealt with have provided a direct contact option in their newsletter or on their website. This particular vendor's site is nothing more than a video that, when you click 'play' goes to a "video does not exist" message.

                Originally Posted by brutecky View Post

                Really the only reason to ever file a dispute is 1) You didnt get the product, 2) Its very different from what they said .. now I know you got the product, Im going to guess that its not something completely different and that you just dont like it or that you changed your mind or something...
                If you'd checked before posting to see how the thread ended up, you wouldn't have said that. You don't necessarily have to read every post, but a good practice is to at least check the last few posts to see how things are going, and you don't end up with Foot-in-mouth syndrome.


                Originally Posted by brutecky View Post

                However 49 hours (your counting exactly thats kind of strange) is not a lot of time.
                Because at the time I posted, that's exactly how long it had been. I wasn't going to say 50 hours if hadn't been that long yet. I guess I could have said "more than 48", but oh well.


                Originally Posted by brutecky View Post

                And it certainly is not enough time to file a paypal dispute which is basically accusing the seller of fraud.
                The dispute (had I been able to file it) was to get the vendor's attention, per the advice of a poster. I guess the gods stepped in on that one, though.
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  • Profile picture of the author jimstoddard
    Call Paypal at 888-879-8750 .... This also sometimes occurs when the seller has not verified their account.
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  • Profile picture of the author WillR
    Speaking from a vendors point of view, my advice would not be to open a Paypal dispute just yet.

    Life happens. Things get in the way. Unfortunately we live in a world nowadays where if someone is busy for a few days we assume they are dead or trying to avoid us. It's not always the case. Things pop up from time to time and we can't avoid them.

    My advice to you would be to contact them via PM in this forum and state that you have requested a refund and if you have not heard back from them within 48 hours then you will be opening a Paypal dispute to get your money back.

    I think that's the fairest way to go about things. I really hate customers who are so impatient and open disputes after only a few hours of not hearing from you. It's happened to me in the past and it's just ridiculous so don't be one of those customers. Give them a fair chance and if still no luck then go the dispute route.
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  • Profile picture of the author Joel Young
    Thanks everyone. This is something I have pretty much zero experience with, so I appreciate all the input.

    Good reminders, WillR.

    @owais211: No, I didn't give all the info. I'll try that.
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  • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
    Banned
    Never saw a message like that in Paypal. You may have to contact Paypal support directly.
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  • Profile picture of the author mrjosco
    Originally Posted by Joel Young View Post

    For the second time in my IM life I've had to ask for a refund on a product. It wasn't a WSO. It was paid for with PayPal, and to request a refund I had to submit a support ticket directly through the helpdesk of the vendor. They state that they try to reply within 24 hours. It has now been 49 hours.

    I submitted one more ticket asking about it, and I sent an email as well, but still nothing. The main problem is I see no way to contact the vendor personally; the newsletter does not include a way to make direct contact. This person is a member here at the WF but I have not sent a PM yet (the last PM I sent was to tell of a problem with the sales video page, but I never got an answer, and the problem still exists).

    What can I do? File a PayPal dispute that will most likely fail because it's a digital product? Wait and wait for the refund? I'm hoping for a quick resolution so I at least know the guarantee will be honored.

    Any advice? Thanks!

    Hmm. I am having a VERY similar issue - except this was for a cheap product that offered a 5 day trial membership to a much more expensive subscription product as a "bonus". As soon as I noticed the bait and switch I sent a request to their support on 6/14/13 to request cancellation. I then posted a nice post in the forum asking for confirmation of cancellation.

    Well, you guessed it. It wasn't cancelled and my $5 purchase turned into a $97 one.

    I sent an email to the person who started the WSO, (which, according to YESWARE, they opened 6 hours ago), posted an additional post in the forum, sent a private message AND filed a dispute at paypal. No response.

    If I don't hear back soon I am going to send the account to a collection agency. There is no cost on my end to do so, it will put a 7 year mark on their credit. $97 isn't much to some, but it is to me - and ain't too small for collection action.

    I don't want the stars and the moon - I just want the right thing to be done.

    I hope it works out well for you. I hope it isn't the same scum of the earth defrauding you (or maybe I do - the fewer the better, right?).

    I am trying to find some other recourse as well, so I will follow this thread too.
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    • Profile picture of the author Joel Young
      Wow mrjosco, I hope you get THAT resolved! That's a bad one!
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  • Profile picture of the author serprider
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    • Profile picture of the author CyberAlien
      Originally Posted by serprider View Post

      Customers do it to me all the time and I never win them. I can win any other dispute.
      It is still possible to win those if you can provide enough proof actually.
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  • Profile picture of the author brutecky
    Sorry I dont think I got across what I was trying to say very well.

    When you say about "I should have read the posts" Im going to assume you meant this

    " Turns out the reason I wanted a refund was due to a misunderstanding of certain aspects of the product as it pertains to doing business in Canada."

    And that is exactly what I was saying, had you filed a dispute you would have had to say either product not has described or product not recieved. Both things that PP considers fraud so had you filed a dispute you would have been accusing the seller of fraud when it was just a misunderstanding.

    "The dispute (had I been able to file it) was to get the vendor's attention, per the advice of a poster. I guess the gods stepped in on that one, though."

    And that what my whole point was. Whatever that other poster said was bad. A dispute is NOT to get someones attention. Paypal tracks those disputes, your accusing the vendor of fraud when you make a dispute. Thats all my post was trying to get across and Im sorry if I didnt get it across well. But here Ill try again. Valid reasons for filing a dispute on PayPal are basically either you didnt get the product at all or it was very different than described. Thats it. There is no "I want to get the sellers attention" reason now is there? So when you file you will either have to say That you didnt get the product or that it was very different. Either way you are saying to paypal that the seller was fraudulent. So the advise that you got saying "file a dispute to get there attention" is basically saying "accuse someone of fraud to there payment processor to get there attention" .. really you have to see how thats an immoral course of action.

    Anyway Im looking through the lens of a seller. I only have a around a 1 or 2% refund rate over all but its always frustrating when people file a PP dispute. You at least did the very correct thing and contacted the seller first. Which was quite cool. I can see how it can be scary for a buyer to buy something, then put in a refund request and not hear anything at all for a day or two. However I do think that in general buyers are a little to trigger happy with that dispute button.
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