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Why This Is A Damp Squib

by Fabian Tan
71 replies
What are marketing fads, precisely?

Think traffic exchanges. What used to be hot has now become a damp squib. A simple rule for marketing is this: any traffic source that doesn't attract information seekers or buyers is likely to be a fad.

Let's look at Twitter. While there are benefits to using it, it is not very effective as a marketing tool. To put it simply in terms of dollars and cents, you won't find many people making a lot of money from Twitter. Most of them who are making money are selling 'profit from Twitter' products. The irony, eh?

The reason why sites like Twitter and Facebook are not great marketing tools is because they don't attract people who are information seekers or buyers. People go on to these sites to interact, not to look for information on the best golf club to buy or how to remove their moles. That's why sites like these are ineffective as marketing tools and can be described as fads.

To compound the problem, many people are following hundreds or thousands of people each day. If you are getting thousands of tweets a day, are you going to read them all as they come in by the second? Most people are most likely only REALLY following a handful of people a day and reading their Tweets. The rest, they read if they happen to be on at the right time.

So what are the evergreen tactics that you can count on? One of them is certainly article marketing. When you have your articles on article directories, those articles are attracting information seekers. That means there is a lot higher chance that these people will actually buy something from you. Another one is pay per click advertising. With 90% of Google's revenue coming from Google Adwords, do you think they are just going to sit idle and let it go bust? Adwords will remain effective for sometime to come simply because Google's income depends on it.

Have fun with Twitter. Use it as a communications tool. If someone else says they made $10k from the contacts on Twitter, well anyone can say they made $10k from Gmail, Hotmail and Skype. Frankly, it will look ridiculous.

Ignore the hype.

Go with tactics that remain evergreen, and dump those that are fads.

Fabian
#damp #squid #twitter
  • Profile picture of the author Asher
    Originally Posted by Fabian Tan View Post

    Have fun with Twitter. Use it as a communications tool.
    Hi Fabian,

    I agree with you totally that Twitter should be
    used as a communications tool but I also think
    that it can be used as a marketing tool.

    Oddly, when I did a Google search for something,
    a Tweet was actually the number 1 result and
    that led me to a sales page.

    No doubt, this could be a fad - but early adapters
    of a fad could become very wealthy, don't you
    think?

    What doesn't work for one person could work very
    well for another. I use article marketing a lot and
    I use Twitter to get more people to view the
    articles. So it's a good win-win (I call it my content
    boomerang strategy).

    Asher
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    Asher Aw
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  • Profile picture of the author rapidscc
    We are all entitled to our own opinion..There's no one way to make a living, same goes for success. All we can do is increase our chances..In the end it's a numbers game.

    A better strategy will be to incorporate both..

    Fads fade away..That is true..but before it does, isn't it better to get your share of it..

    oMar
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  • Profile picture of the author ken_p
    i am fairly new in this online marketing, but i am willing to try everything that will help me in achieving my goals. and i can see that twitter is one of the tools you can use, it may not be the best tool,... so i think , do not limit your resources to what others say that are working for them. because what works for them doesnt necessarily mean it'll work for you.
    cheers!
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  • Profile picture of the author Kelly Verge
    Fabian,

    I respectfully disagree.

    As with Facebook, there are those who don't and never will "get" Twitter. I suspect you fall in that group.

    While this isn't true for every person, or with every update, sometimes a "tweet" will give you a peek into the person's brain. If this information is approached from a marketing perspective, it can give you tremendous leverage.

    It can be pretty powerful.

    If you're not testing Twitter at a minimum, you're leaving potential buyers on the table.
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    • Profile picture of the author Fabian Tan
      Originally Posted by Kelly Verge View Post

      While this isn't true for every person, or with every update, sometimes a "tweet" will give you a peek into the person's brain. If this information is approached from a marketing perspective, it can give you tremendous leverage.
      From the way you described it, Twitter is a research tool for you.

      As someone else alluded to, it can be even as a SEO tool.

      The trouble with Twitter is that people readily accept it without skepticism because of its innocent design and intentions.

      Twitter, as a matter of design, is not as effective for marketers as the hype suggests.

      By the way, notice how some people are making money from selling 'Twitter advice' products. That's where the REAL money is.

      Selling the shovels, and not digging the 'gold'.

      Fabian

      P.S. This is how normally a new marketing fad is formed, people start spreading around dubious statistics that pull people in. We are not that naive now are we?
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      • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
        I will just speak for myself.

        Since joining Twitter...

        1. My blog traffic has more than tripled.
        2. My blog sales have increased by 20%.
        3. My Adsense income has increase by 400%.

        So I respectfully disagree.

        When used properly, Twitter can make you money.

        And NOT selling Twitter products.
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        • Profile picture of the author Fabian Tan
          Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

          I will just speak for myself.

          Since joining Twitter...

          1. My blog traffic has more than tripled.
          2. My blog sales have increased by 20%.
          3. My Adsense income has increase by 400%.

          So I respectfully disagree.

          When used properly, Twitter can make you money.

          And NOT selling Twitter products.
          Do you have the PROOF for that? Show me the proof and I'll respectfully shut up.

          I see people in the JV forum saying they have 4.6 million subscribers with no proof whatsoever.

          Talk about lies in this industry.

          Fabian
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          • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
            Originally Posted by Fabian Tan View Post

            Do you have the PROOF for that? Show me the proof and I'll respectfully shut up.

            I see people in the JV forum saying they have 4.6 million subscribers with no proof whatsoever. And people fall for it.

            Talk about lies in this industry.

            Fabian
            I was going to give a flip answer to this rather obnoxious comment (did
            somebody hijack your WF account again) but I'm just going to let you
            believe whatever you want.

            I know it to be true and that's all that matters.

            Wow, some people.
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        • Profile picture of the author Dan C. Rinnert
          Originally Posted by Fabian Tan View Post

          Most people are most likely only REALLY following a handful of people a day and reading their Tweets.
          The trick is to get yourself into that handful of people a day that they read.

          If I miss a day on Twitter, or am "off-schedule" by more than a couple hours, I get tweets or DMs from people wondering where I am. You don't get those kind of messages if people aren't reading your tweets.

          Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

          When used properly, Twitter can make you money.

          And NOT selling Twitter products.
          Ditto.
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          Dan's content is irregularly read by handfuls of people. Join the elite few by reading his blog: dcrBlogs.com, following him on Twitter: dcrTweets.com or reading his fiction: dcrWrites.com but NOT by Clicking Here!

          Dan also writes content for hire, but you can't afford him anyway.
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      • Profile picture of the author Kelly Verge
        Originally Posted by Fabian Tan View Post

        Selling the shovels, and not digging the 'gold'.
        Some are doing both.

        Take a quick look at the video I have up at The Tweeder Method :Tweeder.
        Don't watch it for info on my product, but to see what I've seen in Twitter. You might gain a new perspective. The video is more about Twitter's potential than what my system does. Ignore the rest of the sales page and do not buy.

        I've been around long enough to understand how easy it is to become jaded and to think everything is hype.
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  • Profile picture of the author Peter Bestel
    Fabian

    You've asked for proof from those who claim that Twitter is working for them, where is your proof that it doesn't?

    You've been a member of Twitter for 505 days and have made 286 tweets, averaging less than two a day. Can you honestly say that you've really tested this method effectively enough to draw any worthwhile conclusions?

    Peter
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    • Profile picture of the author Fabian Tan
      Originally Posted by Peter Bestel View Post

      Fabian

      You've asked for proof from those who claim that Twitter is working for them, where is your proof that it doesn't?

      You've been a member of Twitter for 505 days and have made 286 tweets, averaging less than two a day. Can you honestly say that you've really tested this method effectively enough to draw any worthwhile conclusions?

      Peter
      I think you have a weak point and you are simply answering a question with a question with a 'one-up' attitude.

      One doesn't have to look for proof when a strategy is clearly not suitable for something, in this case, Internet marketing.

      Do you need to look for proof that spam is illegal? No. It is right in front of everyone's face.

      I don't see anyone spending hours looking for proof that FFA's don't work. That's because it clearly doesn't.

      I'd like to see you find proof for or against that.

      Fabian
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      • Profile picture of the author 75platinum
        Banned
        [DELETED]
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        • Profile picture of the author Kevin Riley
          How are you using Twitter? Slapping in aff links and expecting a bundle of commissions?

          That's not how it works. It's not such a direct, instant ROI marketing tool.

          However, if you're willing to invest in it .... treat your followers like people instead of wallets ... interact ... you'll find that you build a loyal following and you will make money via Twitter. Quit trying to rape and pillage!
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          • Profile picture of the author Alan Petersen
            Originally Posted by Kevin Riley View Post

            How are you using Twitter? Slapping in aff links and expecting a bundle of commissions?

            That's not how it works. It's not such a direct, instant ROI marketing tool.

            However, if you're willing to invest in it .... treat your followers like people instead of wallets ... interact ... you'll find that you build a loyal following and you will make money via Twitter. Quit trying to rape and pillage!
            Excellent!

            We're better off not having people like Fabian who just want to tweet/spam affiliate links or flog us with sales pitches for their products. So yes please stay off Twitter.

            You are right it doesn't work like you want it to work so you can "murder your job" so delete your account. Thanks!
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            • Profile picture of the author Fabian Tan
              Originally Posted by Alan Petersen View Post

              Excellent!

              We're better off not having people like Fabian who just want to tweet/spam affiliate links or flog us with sales pitches for their products. So yes please stay off Twitter.

              You are right it doesn't work like you want it to work so you can "murder your job" so delete your account. Thanks!
              You are spamming your own Twitter account with links to your blog.

              Fundamentally, you are considered a spammer as you described.

              Fabian
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              • Profile picture of the author yourreviewer
                Again, this post is an opinion and not a fact. There are no numbers to back this statement. There are marketers who are making a good profit via Twitter. As someone earlier said, just because we don't get Facebook and Twitter, it doesn't mean they are a waste of time.
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              • Profile picture of the author Dana_W
                Originally Posted by Fabian Tan View Post

                You are spamming your own Twitter account with links to your blog.

                Fundamentally, you are considered a spammer as you described.

                Fabian
                You think that tweeting links to your blog is automatically spam? Because I do it on Twitter quite frequently and get no complaints. I write a post on my blog with a title like "Here's why your press release got rejected" - I tweet a link to it - people retweet it - and I get a few hundred visitors in a day from it.

                At this point - I literally make my living from Twitter, because I get all of my press release clients from there. Yes, I do sell an ebook showing how to use Twitter for marketing - but if that stopped selling today I'd STILL be making my living from Twitter. The vast majority of my money comes from writing for clients I find from Twitter.

                As for proof - how exactly would anyone prove that they make a living from Twitter? I could show you my Paypal account. I could show you my Google Analytics stats showing how much traffic I get from Twitter - I could swear on a stack of bibles - but that can all be faked.
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            • Profile picture of the author Frank Donovan
              Fabian, Fabian, Fabian...

              You had me with the thread title (a large part of me still thinks that Twitter is mainly for those who find blogging just too much of a challenge ) but you haven't really advanced your cause with your arguments thus far.

              Fad or not, Twitter is simply just another channel for reaching and interacting with people, many of whom may not have been aware of your presence before.

              Any competent marketer should be able to benefit from such access, even if it's just establishing themselves in the minds of prospective customers or partners. That's all it needs to be.

              It's not the marketers' fault if Twitter is getting hyped beyond its value. All major trends tend to suffer the same fate.

              And your dig at SW was uncalled for. There's no reason to question his claims. As far as I know, he isn't a Twitter shareholder.



              Frank
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  • Profile picture of the author Peter Bestel
    Fabian

    You created this thread with the title "Why Twitter is a damp squib" - you put forward some arguments that were merely conjecture, your opinion and not based on any statistics or fact. Before anyone has to disclose their proof that it works it stands to reason that you first put up the proof of your side of the argument.

    This is not about getting 'one up' as you say, it is simply in the interest of a balanced argument.

    Peter
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  • Profile picture of the author GeorgR.
    "marketing tool" as in "spamming tool" ?

    Be honest guys. I myself dont pay attention anymore since i dont have the time to check 1000s of "links" people tweet..and everyone has "something" to link/say.

    Too broad/general/un-targeted.
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  • Profile picture of the author Kelly Verge
    Think prospects...


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  • Profile picture of the author designfuschion
    The way i see it,is twitter is a tool.
    It's how effectively we use the tools..will be how successful we are pulling the money in.

    It's a shame there is so much hype..becuase users will stop using or (news reports are saying 60% of new signups are leaving twitter after 1 month) like its been said earlier the messages will get lost.

    I joined 2 months ago,created 4 accounts all with business in mind. Now while i don't have any websites up at the moment,i've been tracking clickthroughs by retweeting other's links and promoting blogs(I use Allyourtweet.com).
    The smaller of the 4 accounts @RockYourPlr is getting around 25-88% clickthroughs on some links. That boggled my mind,considering in my opinion my tweets were rubbish. (and not to mention no personal tweets about my personal life whatsoever).
    I think twitter can be successful if a dedicated followingcan be cultivated.

    Initially when i joined i was madly following people. (I dunno,somehow the blinkers went on and i forgot what i previously read about twitter marketing)..since then i've pruned back everyone either not following me back and those i don't want to follow.
    Time will tell if twitter will help with traffic to my websites in future.

    just want to point out 2 very good points in this thread-
    What doesn't work for one person could work very
    well for another. I use article marketing a lot and
    I use Twitter to get more people to view the
    articles. So it's a good win-win (I call it my content
    boomerang strategy).

    Asher
    Thats a very very idea.-I'll have to remember that!
    Selling the shovels, and not digging the 'gold'.

    Fabian
    Well said!
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  • Profile picture of the author Richard Tunnah
    I started to use a number of twitter accounts to promote various niches earlier this year. I either promote low clickbank products after building up a repore. Or I sent them to my related website. It's a great list buillder so far. Maybe it is a fad that won't last for the next 5 years but while it's around and working for me I'm going to use it!

    Rich
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  • Profile picture of the author TheAngelGuy
    Well,

    To those knocking Fabian for saying "Twitter sucks," because he obviously HASN'T, it'd be good to look at where it fits in the whole picture of your endeavor-as-a-business.

    If you're IM endeavor is just using a few tactics to generate some traffic and sales then why would it NOT work?

    But if, on the other hand, you're looking to build a 6 or 7 figure per year REGULARLY business structure, the efforts required would certainly put Twitter lower down the list as far as what's the most reliable, trackable, and worthy of your time. Hypothetically speaking, if there's only 18 working hours per day, AND YOUR GOAL WAS A CONSISTENT 6 OR 7 FIGURES PER YEAR, tweeting is probably not going to be your highest return-on-action.

    If anyone is reading that Fabian is telling people not to twitter or that tweeting sucks or that you're stupid for tweeting, then you're reading the wrong message. His post is simply talking about the questionable long term value and short term effectiveness over other strategies that have shown to be effective AND long term.

    But, if some of you don't want to see it like that, and what he actually said, then you'll need to take youw own advice - "to each his own".
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    • Profile picture of the author Kevin Riley
      Originally Posted by TheAngelGuy View Post


      But if, on the other hand, you're looking to build a 6 or 7 figure per year REGULARLY business structure, the efforts required would certainly put Twitter lower down the list as far as what's the most reliable, trackable, and worthy of your time. Hypothetically speaking, if there's only 18 working hours per day, AND YOUR GOAL WAS A CONSISTENT 6 OR 7 FIGURES PER YEAR, tweeting is probably not going to be your highest return-on-action.
      I don't agree. I probably spend less than 10 minutes a day on Twitter (I use Twitter Search), and some of my best jv partners comm with me there. It is NOT just a direct marketing tool.
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      • Profile picture of the author TheAngelGuy
        Originally Posted by Kevin Riley View Post

        I don't agree. I probably spend less than 10 minutes a day on Twitter (I use Twitter Search), and some of my best jv partners comm with me there. It is NOT just a direct marketing tool.
        Good point, and I appreciate your saying this.

        While doing some more research after wriitng my original post, it seems like Twitter CAN find and do well with things that increase your income. I think, though, that some of us are used to thinking in terms of one-to-one from process to result in setting up or working our business model and some of the web 2.0 stuff is a little less concrete to know how exactly it fits in.

        But you're right - it absolutely can be used as an effective tool, and should be exploited. I still think, though, that Fabian IS hitting it right on with a lot of the "flash in the pan" mentality to newest trends - you know, the old "get rich quick" with this new technique thing.

        If Twitter is used as part of the overall picture, I can see how this can be profitable, indeed. (As long as you know how to use it and manage your time properly with it.)

        Thanks for all the good answers, everyone,

        - Paul
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      • Profile picture of the author nathanj
        Originally Posted by Kevin Riley View Post

        I don't agree. I probably spend less than 10 minutes a day on Twitter (I use Twitter Search), and some of my best jv partners comm with me there. It is NOT just a direct marketing tool.
        Probably the best way to use twitter rather than a source of 'lead generation', in regards to someone in the Make Money Through Internet Marketing niche.

        Hamster King thinks how we all should. It isn't really thinking outside the hamster cage...

        IMHO it's easy to build relationships through twitter... but not on a mass scale.

        So for finding and cultivating relationships with possible JV partners, graphic designers, copywriters etc, it can be a fantastic tool.
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  • Profile picture of the author Pete Egeler
    One thing that kills Twitter for people (IMHO,) is the fact that they get all jacked up at trying these stupid "30,000 followers in 30-days" promos.

    I only have about 400 followers. 90% are in the Real Estate field. THOSE are the people I want to work with.

    If you want results, you have to be a bit selective.

    Pete
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  • Profile picture of the author Robert Puddy
    Originally Posted by Fabian Tan View Post

    What are marketing fads, precisely?

    Think traffic exchanges. What used to be hot has now become a damp squib. A simple rule for marketing is this: any traffic source that doesn't attract information seekers or buyers is likely to be a fad.
    Fabian
    Really?

    I get 3500 new leads a month from those damp squibs, that purchase everything from a $7 report all the way up to $5000 coaching packages...

    Robert
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  • Profile picture of the author rapidscc
    Fabian, I hate to say this but with all the comments here pro-twitter..I think you're the odd one out..

    Hehe..Just kidding...It's a healthy discussion..Even I learned something new from the arguments..

    Tweet Tweet :-)
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  • Profile picture of the author Andyhenry
    Hi Fabian,

    Sorry to add to the disagreement but it sounds like you're making statements not based on any facts.

    How do you know not many people are making money from including Twitter in their marketing mix?

    I've had some excellent results from Twitter in many forms, from meeting new friends, having dinner with Mark Joyner (he stopped over in Singapore and I only knew because he tweeted about it), new customers to my businesses, new subscribers, more website traffic, etc...

    You may be right that it's a fad and will eventually go away, change or stop being used - but right now it's really popular, new people join all the time and it's helping my businesses and letting me keep in touch with people in ways I wouldn't otherwise - so I can't agree with your statements that it's not working or only for people selling Twitter stuff.

    Surely using techniques that are current is just plain business sense?

    If it becomes more costly to use it than the benefits - That's the time I would agree that it's worth considering the value, but while it helps - Who in their right mind would leave that value on the table?

    Sometimes the power of fads is that they can add a nice boost to your business - there doesn't have to be a down side.

    Andy
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    nothing to see here.

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  • Profile picture of the author Fabian Tan
    You know what - I fully expected most to disagree with me with all the positive vibes about Twitter going on about. It seems like you can't say a bad thing about it and get away with it.

    That's why I want to play devil's advocate.

    We can go on and on about getting more joint ventures, learning new stuff, getting rankings, maintaining relationships...all those are the benefits of Twitter and I have benefited from them too. I didn't say I haven't.

    But the benefits don't size up to the amount of hype and attention it gets. If you admit that this will probably be a fad, then that just proves my point.

    Which is, focus on evergreen tactics and try not to be too obsessed with Twitter when you could be doing something a lot more productive.

    Kevin said 10 minutes per day, I would say that's about right.

    Fabian
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    • Profile picture of the author Martin Luxton
      Originally Posted by Fabian Tan View Post

      You know what - I fully expected most to disagree with me with all the positive vibes about Twitter going on about. It seems like you can't say a bad thing about it and get away with it.

      That's why I want to play devil's advocate.

      Fabian
      You can play Devil's Advocate without being rude to Steven.

      But the benefits don't size up to the amount of hype and attention it gets. If you admit that this will probably be a fad, then that just proves my point.

      Which is, focus on evergreen tactics and try not to be too obsessed with Twitter when you could be doing something a lot more productive.

      Kevin said 10 minutes per day, I would say that's about right.
      Fabian,

      1. It's lasted a bit longer than a fad. I remember Bev Clement telling me to get involved with Twitter some 15 months ago.

      2. The only person who seems to be obsessed with Twitter here is you.

      Kevin said 10 minutes per day, I would say that's about right.
      For you and Kevin maybe, but other people have different business models.

      Martin
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  • Profile picture of the author TheAngelGuy
    It's really funny and telling some of the mindsets that are afraid of a critical look at current sentiments.

    I haven't been here as a poster for that long and it's frankly disturbing the amount of denial people have for thinking that someone writing anything from playing devil's advocate to simply wanting a second opinion somehow means that person IS the devil.

    And that just by mere mention of how the tecnique might have downsides (but not saying it is a TOTAL downside) somehow shoots elephant sized holes in whatever sacred technique is being objectively looked at (and I'm not talking with numbers as the only way to gauge objectivity.)

    Those who make the most success are the ones who are willing to see the weaknesses in every methodology that they're using and create ways to minimize or eliminate those weaknessess altoghether.

    Fabian is simply pointing out things that should be looked at from a trend and over-all picture point of view, and some of you are acting like he's emptying an Uzi pointed right at you.

    Sheesh.
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    • Profile picture of the author Andyhenry
      Originally Posted by TheAngelGuy View Post

      It's really funny and telling some of the mindsets that are afraid of a critical look at current sentiments.

      I haven't been here as a poster for that long and it's frankly disturbing the amount of denial people have for thinking that someone writing anything from playing devil's advocate to simply wanting a second opinion somehow means that person IS the devil.

      And that just by mere mention of how the tecnique might have downsides (but not saying it is a TOTAL downside) somehow shoots elephant sized holes in whatever sacred technique is being objectively looked at (and I'm not talking with numbers as the only way to gauge objectivity.)

      Those who make the most success are the ones who are willing to see the weaknesses in every methodology that they're using and create ways to minimize or eliminate those weaknessess altoghether.

      Fabian is simply pointing out things that should be looked at from a trend and over-all picture point of view, and some of you are acting like he's emptying an Uzi pointed right at you.

      Sheesh.
      Not wanting to stir you up, but you seem to be the posting the emotional and emphatic posts in the thread.

      When someone posts 'statements' which are opinion but positioned as fact - it almost always prompts people to question the presuppositions being used.

      Why don't you let Fabian answer for himself instead of repeatedly having a go at anyone that makes an opposing point?

      If the OP had said "I believe this is a fad and although it has some great benefits, from what I can tell, most people don't appear to be in the small percentage of those actually making the time they invest in using it give an appropriate ROI. Obviously some benefits are not tangable (friendships, keeping in touch with family etc.) but if you're spending any amount of time using Twitter - consider whether it's actually proving to be an effective use of your time - you may find it's detracting from more useful actitivies you could be engaging in".

      I would have nothing to say except - I agree.

      Perhaps the intention was the same, but that's the beauty of text-based communication - you need to be careful how you phrase things or people get the wrong idea.

      They say the meaning of your communication is the response you get (i.e take ownership of your communication - it's not always the other persons fault they don't understand what you meant).

      Andy
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      nothing to see here.

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      • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
        Fabian, I'm actually going to take the high road here, maybe because in the
        past, that's been a hard thing for me to do.

        You've attacked me unjustly, essentially calling me a liar. That's fine. I
        think ultimately, you've ended up doing more harm to yourself than you
        have to me.

        Read your post and the attitude that it presents.

        Do you think this is the way to make friends in this business who might, down
        the road, help you become more successful?

        How many people do you think read what you wrote and are thinking to
        themselves that this is somebody who I will not want to do business with?

        I have learned from my own mistakes, which I am trying greatly to
        correct, that you do more harm than good by attacking others.

        Just my 2 cents for whatever it's worth to you.

        Wishing you nothing but the best.
        Signature
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  • Profile picture of the author Fabian Tan
    Steven, I merely asked you if you have proof and you have taken the moral high road as you yourself have admitted.

    Says it all really

    My view? I think you and a few others have taken this argument way too personally.

    Let's stick to Twitter my friend.

    Fabian
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    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
      Originally Posted by Fabian Tan View Post

      Steven, I merely asked you if have proof and you have taken the moral high road as you yourself have admitted.

      Says it all really

      My view? I think you and a few others have taken this argument way too personally.

      Let's stick to Twitter my friend.

      Fabian
      No offense, but the only people I owe any proof to are my customers when
      I make claims that I can help them achieve success. In that case and in
      that case only I better damn well be able to back up what I claim.

      There are plenty of people here whose products I've promote who can
      more than verify the success that I have had doing so.

      Again, no offense, but I owe you nothing.
      Signature
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      • Profile picture of the author Fabian Tan
        Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

        Again, no offense, but I owe you nothing.
        Erm, pal, you can't go around making claims (with stats) in a debate without backing it up.

        Owe me something? Again, you are taking this too personally.

        Fabian
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        • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
          Originally Posted by Fabian Tan View Post

          Erm, pal, you can't go around making claims (with stats) in a debate without backing it up.

          Owe me something? Again, you are taking this too personally.

          Fabian
          Okay, I'm done being nice to you you arrogant SOB.

          First of all, I am not your friend and I am NOT your pal.

          I have nothing to gain by making up claims about my success using Twitter.

          I have no Twitter products that I sell, though I can recommend to get Dana
          W's to anybody who wants a good one, and I have no stock in the
          company.

          If you continue to behave like the ass that you are, you're only going to
          dig this hole that you've dug for yourself deeper and deeper.

          Now please take your sanctimonious crap someplace else and get it
          away from me.
          Signature
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        • Profile picture of the author debra
          Originally Posted by Fabian Tan View Post

          Erm, pal, you can't go around making claims (with stats) in a debate without backing it up.

          Owe me something? Again, you are taking this too personally.

          Fabian
          Fabian...you started this thread whether for self promotion or not, we're still waiting to see your stats to back up your claims.

          So...are your stats obtainable or is it just your word(opinion) on it?
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          • Profile picture of the author Killer Joe
            Twitter-1 ... Fabian-Ziltch

            Well, this has been an interesting thread to say the least

            Being mostly, OK, completely a Twidiot, it's interesting to see how some folks have used it with success.

            I went to Kelly's page, but the vid didn't load , so now I'm back to square one

            Onward and upward...

            KJ
            Signature
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            • Profile picture of the author Kay King
              Debra -

              Di you read any of this thread? Fabian made no claims and promoted nothing. Had you read the thread you would have known the stats were posted by others. So what do you want "proven"?

              Dana comments about being "ignorant" referencing a statement I can't find? Another person fusses about the "spam" comment but ignored the rude post it was answering.

              I don't know Fabian and don't agree with everything he posted here - but
              THIS comment by the OP is all this thread was about - so where's the big problem?

              That's why I want to play devil's advocate.

              We can go on and on about getting more joint ventures, learning new stuff, getting rankings, maintaining relationships...all those are the benefits of Twitter and I have benefited from them too. I didn't say I haven't.

              But the benefits don't size up to the amount of hype and attention it gets. If you admit that this will probably be a fad, then that just proves my point.

              Which is, focus on evergreen tactics and try not to be too obsessed with Twitter when you could be doing something a lot more productive.

              Kevin said 10 minutes per day, I would say that's about right.
              kay
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              • Profile picture of the author debra
                Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

                Debra -

                Di you read any of this thread? Fabian made no claims and promoted nothing. Had you read the thread you would have known the stats were posted by others. So what do you want "proven"?

                Dana comments about being "ignorant" referencing a statement I can't find? Another person fusses about the "spam" comment but ignored the rude post it was answering.

                I don't know Fabian and don't agree with everything he posted here - but
                THIS comment by the OP is all this thread was about - so where's the big problem?



                kay
                Well...first, just to be clear I'm for neither side...pro or con. I do have a twitter account though. Not to say I have the thing figured out either, anymore than most ppl. I would like to though.

                Fabian made a comment to Steven about backing up his claims with stats. And basically the same comment by someone else was made of Fabian.

                My comment is made from an educational point. I really want to know why it works for Steven but not Fabian. Both parties are very good marketers.

                So, to me, it would be interesting to know "why" it works for some and not others and why.

                That's all I was after, I'm not looking to participate in the school yard brawl over it.

                Problem? I didn't see a problem. These threads sure have been getting heated lately.
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                • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
                  Dana

                  I will be the first to admit that I have acted like a total ass in the past and
                  you were on the receiving end of it. No excuses. I'm just trying to start
                  acting like a responsible forum member, though some people do make that
                  very difficult.

                  For what it's worth, your book got me into Twitter and even though I was
                  skeptical as hell (I really hate these social sites usually) I can honestly say
                  that used correctly it can be very profitable.

                  Debra

                  To answer your question of why Twitter works for me and not for Fabian,
                  I can't answer that other than to say, I follow what Dana says, especially
                  about how to act on Twitter. I provide lots of free content to try to help
                  people. Even put up a special Twitter blog just for my followers.

                  I did this totally skeptical and not believing for a second that it would
                  amount to anything.

                  I was so wrong. If I put my effort into it than I do (I only spend about
                  10 to 15 minutes a day) I'd probably do even better, but for what little
                  time I spend, I am getting a decent following.

                  Kay

                  I have no problem with Fabian making his comment about Twitter being a
                  waste of time. If that's how he feels, fine. I'm not here to change anybody's
                  mind about it.

                  What I had a problem with was when I reported the results that I have
                  personally gotten using it and when he demanded that I show him proof
                  (even though I tactfully at first told him there was no need for me to have
                  to do that) he then insinuated that I was liar.

                  That is when I blew up at him.

                  I could care less that he doesn't think Twitter is worth his time, but
                  nobody calls me a liar and expects me to just roll over and take it.

                  That is the reason for my taking his head off.

                  And if you look at other posts in this thread, you will see that others
                  agree that he was out of line.
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  • Profile picture of the author Fabian Tan
    Steven, were you taking the moral high road on that one?

    Fabian
    Signature
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    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
      Originally Posted by Fabian Tan View Post

      Steven, were you taking the moral high road on that one?

      Fabian
      No, I was telling you what an arrogant SOB you are.

      Not clear enough?

      And I am sure there are plenty here who will agree with me.
      Signature
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      • Profile picture of the author Fabian Tan
        Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

        No, I was telling you what an arrogant SOB you are.

        Not clear enough?

        And I am sure there are plenty here who will agree with me.
        And I'm sure many will also see that you have a reputation for personal arguments right here in this forum.

        Fabian
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        • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
          Originally Posted by Fabian Tan View Post

          And I'm sure many will also see that you have a reputation for personal arguments right here in this forum.

          Fabian
          Yes, which has nothing to do with this particular thread. You essentially
          called me a liar, which as far as I'm concerned does make this personal.

          I am simply telling you the person who I think you are.

          Sometimes looking in the mirror can be a real nasty wakeup call.
          Signature
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          • Profile picture of the author Fabian Tan
            Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

            Yes, which has nothing to do with this particular thread. You essentially
            called me a liar, which as far as I'm concerned does make this personal.

            I am simply telling you the person who I think you are.

            Sometimes looking in the mirror can be a real nasty wakeup call.
            First of all, you don't even know me.

            Secondly, I have seen many threads where you blow it all out of proportion and make a big drama out of it.

            I think this is one of them...

            Fabian
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            • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
              Originally Posted by Fabian Tan View Post

              First of all, you don't even know me.

              Secondly, I have seen many threads where you blow it all out of proportion and make a big drama out of it.

              I think this is one of them...

              Fabian
              Fabian, I don't want to know you. If you were the last marketer on this
              planet, I wouldn't want to know you.

              You say I'm making a big deal out of nothing?

              I think being called a liar is not nothing.

              No go on and please have the last word because as Martin said...

              You just ain't worth it.

              I'm going to do something productive.
              Signature
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            • Profile picture of the author Martin Luxton
              Originally Posted by Fabian Tan View Post

              First of all, you don't even know me.

              Secondly, I have seen many threads where you blow it all out of proportion and make a big drama out of it.

              I think this is one of them...

              Fabian
              Fabian,

              I have just given you an infraction.

              Maybe you could start another thread

              "How To Drive Traffic To Your Twitter Page Through Controversy And Libelling People!"

              Martin

              P.S. Steven has blown things up in the past (and I have called him on that) but in this thread he is blameless.
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  • Profile picture of the author Dmitry
    Fabian, looking at your twitter profile I think you've rather started this thread to PROMOTE yourself rather than to help anyone with anything. That would explain the tone of your posts in this thread.

    I've personally not used twitter but I do see the potential it has for building relations - as for spamming it - I don't know - maybe that's what you're referring to.
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    • Profile picture of the author Martin Luxton
      Steven,

      He's not worth it.

      Martin
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      • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
        Originally Posted by Martin Luxton View Post

        Steven,

        He's not worth it.

        Martin
        No, he's not, and I was trying to let this die...twice...but he refused to
        let it.

        So now I am simply telling him what an arrogant SOB he is.

        And if he was standing here in my home right in front of me, I'd say it to his
        face.
        Signature
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  • Profile picture of the author majidmaskat
    I a sorry but i have to disagree, people who know how to utilse twitter they will make it, i mean twitter is all about instant communication nd interactin is a very powerfull tool to drive sales and make money. I am quite a fan of twitter, but do not get me wrong, sometime twitter users are there only to promote themselve, so that might support your argument for why it is ineffective
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    • Profile picture of the author Dmitry
      Originally Posted by majidmaskat View Post

      I a sorry but i have to disagree, people who know how to utilse twitter they will make it, i mean twitter is all about instant communication nd interactin is a very powerfull tool to drive sales and make money. I am quite a fan of twitter, but do not get me wrong, sometime twitter users are there only to promote themselve, so that might support your argument for why it is ineffective
      Of course it's a great tool - so long as you use it for what it was meant to be.

      Spamming will definitely not get you the results you want! Bashing about it neither.
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      • Profile picture of the author majidmaskat
        Originally Posted by Dmitry View Post

        Of course it's a great tool - so long as you use it for what it was meant to be.

        Spamming will definitely not get you the results you want! Bashing about it neither.
        i hate spamming however evertime i use twitter i see many "internet marketers", who send out their links literlayy every 1 minute literally, but i don't know what to say to them, obvisouly they do not have a very clear idea?
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        • Profile picture of the author Dmitry
          Originally Posted by majidmaskat View Post

          i hate spamming however evertime i use twitter i see many "internet marketers", who send out their links literlayy every 1 minute literally, but i don't know what to say to them, obvisouly they do not have a very clear idea?
          These are no marketers - these are spammers. The same who send you email spam. Only there's the CAN SPAM ACT so it keeps most of these "marketers" away from email spam (yes, most of them are MAN enough to bash out on forums as we see here but when it comes to real world action they are p***ies).
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          • Profile picture of the author Jill Carpenter
            Well, I have to disagree with Fabian.

            Honestly I don't see where Fabian has real proof to back up his statement - so until then I don't know that his demands for others to prove what it is doing for them apply.

            Fabian, if you can honestly say you've tested a few accounts with a few niches and have built a good following and followed the advice of a few twitter guides and still don't see it working then maybe you'll be able to back up your point a bit better.

            I do see one mistake you are making on your twitter account.

            7 out of 20 tweets I just saw when visiting your page were links going to offers. This is not the "winning formula." But again, this is one of those things you learn when buying the "the shovel" information.

            As for the comment about the "spamming of links to ones blog posts" - I don't know about you but I have some blogs that are positioned to automatically tweet themselves when I make a new post. Not sure what is wrong with that. There are not offers on all those posts - many of them are just my regular ramblings.

            Anyway, that is just my take on it. If it is not working for you then by all means direct your efforts elsewhere that is more productive.

            I personally use Twitter for more than just handing out links - and have been successful in building my Facebook into hundreds of friends - the bulk who came from Twitter. That is just one way I've used it - and without it I would not have nearly the number of contacts that I do. Others have gone onto lists, others have visited my blogs and helped traffic, and was able to actually make some really good connections and get help FAST when I needed it.

            Not all the value you get out of the free resource comes back to you in the form of instant income - and sometimes that is even more important/valuable.
            Signature

            "May I have ten thousand marbles, please?"

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        • Profile picture of the author Dana_W
          Originally Posted by majidmaskat View Post

          i hate spamming however evertime i use twitter i see many "internet marketers", who send out their links literlayy every 1 minute literally, but i don't know what to say to them, obvisouly they do not have a very clear idea?
          Unfollow them. That's what I do.
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      • Profile picture of the author steveweber
        Fabian,

        I can't speak for anyone else, but from my perspective you are wrong about twitter. It's been extremely good for my business.
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  • Profile picture of the author JasonParker
    Wowsa... I have an opinion on this subject but I'm staying out of this heated debate.

    Friends with Fabian, Wagenheim, Riley, Peterson... so I'm not touching this with a 10 foot pole.

    But what I will say is I believe there's truth to both sides and I don't think this subject should be discussed in absolutes.
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  • Profile picture of the author bhopkins
    Well outside from the insults, lets get back to the subject. Twitter can be a great tool, its just most people abuse it. Call them spammers or what ever, but personally I think its the mindset.

    A lot of people are so desperate for a little cash that they think the only way tyo get it is to post as many affiliate links in an as many places as possible in a short amount of time. Now this does work to a degree or people would not still be spamming like they do.

    Personally, I try to take a longer term approach to business activities. I would rather give up one sale today for 10 next week, but that is just me.

    Whether its twitter or forum marketing or whatever in this business a long term approach will earn you more money and that money will be much more stable and consistent in the end.

    After all isn't that what we are all working towards a business model which lets you not work and still earn money. You can't get that by spammer twitter ever ten minutes, whether its automated or not, you still have to add messages to the automation software.

    my 2 cents
    Bruce
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    Bruce

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  • Profile picture of the author JayXtreme
    WOW.. looks like I missed all the funzeee.. here

    I'm pro-twitter.. it's increased my list, and still does regularly. I have pen name accounts that I feed RSS and my EzineArticles into which all increase my traffic...

    My personal Twitter account has been a great source of traffic, income and connections for me. I've met some of the most fantastic people ever, some of which I connect with on Skype, over the phone and via e-mail... profitable relationships for all parties there.

    Also.. I've had access to John Taylor via DM regularly.. what more could I want

    I don't care much for what occurred in this thread.. but Twitter is good for my business.

    Peace

    Jay

    p.s. And no.. I don't have a Twitter for profit product to push here, so no bias. (Although my own product does contain a chunk of Twitter info)

    p.p.s. Some of the Tweeple in this thread should chill a little, grab a beer.. I'm going to.. the footie's on soon .. w00t!
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    Bare Murkage.........

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    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
      I see people in the JV forum saying they have 4.6 million subscribers with no proof whatsoever.

      Talk about lies in this industry.
      Contrary to those who give infractions when they don't like what someone says - and to those who post again and again until they escalate threads into "personal attacks".....I don't believe that comment above made any reference to Steven W. I didn't think so when I first read it - but I guess if you are looking for a problem you can always find one.

      Andy is right that text can be posted in a way that is "my opinion" - but it doesn't always get done. Is that an excuse to always assume the worst interpretation of what is posted? Is that helpful...or self serving?

      Not everyone loves Twitter - I think it's boring. However, I know others who love it and that's fine if it is working for them. It doesn't make them right or me wrong - just two different viewpoints.

      If you post exact results to "prove" the OP is wrong - you don't have to provide proof. BUT....It would be useful to know how long you've done twitter, how many people you follow, how many follow you, how often you tweet per day - and how much actual time per day you spend at Twitter. Were there other marketing tactics that might have contributed?

      Fabian could have stated his case in a more "my viewpoint" way - but the "I'm right and the OP is wrong" attitude that results in threads highjacked and escalated into personal arguments is getting old and tired.

      I'm sure we'll see a thread yet today about "people who post opinions as fact" - wouldn't be the first time.

      kay
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      • Profile picture of the author Tom B
        Banned
        Originally Posted by Kay King View Post


        Fabian could have stated his case in a more "my viewpoint" way - but the "I'm right and the OP is wrong" attitude that results in threads highjacked and escalated into personal arguments is getting old and tired.


        kay
        You are wrong Kay. I find the "OP is wrong" attitude both new and exciting.
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  • Profile picture of the author Asher
    Arguments on the main internet marketing discussion forum
    sure livens things up~

    Like many others - I'm pro-Twitter.

    Asher
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    Asher Aw
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  • Profile picture of the author TheAngelGuy
    Sometimes, too, people look for a strategy to be either a "yes" or a "no" instead of a "where does it fit", and for some people, myself included, it's not yet obvious enough where it fits and how to use it.

    That being said, if it's not too OT, could anyone recommend some good resources (even WSO's) on using Twitter most profitably? (If OT, then I'll start another post.)

    Thanks, all, and have a good day,

    - Paul
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    • Profile picture of the author Tom B
      Banned
      Email marketing doesn't work either. There I said it.


      Now sign up for my email list!
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    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
      Originally Posted by TheAngelGuy View Post

      Sometimes, too, people look for a strategy to be either a "yes" or a "no" instead of a "where does it fit", and for some people, myself included, it's not yet obvious enough where it fits and how to use it.

      That being said, if it's not too OT, could anyone recommend some good resources (even WSO's) on using Twitter most profitably? (If OT, then I'll start another post.)

      Thanks, all, and have a good day,

      - Paul
      Paul, get Dana W's book on it. It's excellent.
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  • Profile picture of the author Neil Morgan
    Spam is an interesting word to use when talking about a 100% permission-based system such as Twitter, when the only way you can receive tweets is to remain as a follower.

    The content of some of the tweets might leave a little to be desired, but that doesn't make it spam.

    One click and you're outta there, so where's the problem?

    Cheers,

    Neil
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    Easy email marketing automation without moving your lists.

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    • Profile picture of the author ShayB
      I have 2 main Twitter accounts.

      One is "me." It is the account I use for my day-to-day stuff and has gotten my new clients, more business, etc. There are about 1200+ followers on that account.

      I also have a just-for-fun account. It is a Star Trek role-playing account. Totally geeky and never gets a business tweet sent from it.

      Interestingly enough, I have gotten business from that one, too. People ask me for my "real" account and follow that one, then order from me.
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  • Profile picture of the author Dana_W
    By the way, never thought I'd see the day where Steve Wags and I are on the same page - but seriously! For someone who's barely tried Twitter to claim that there's no way to make money using Twitter is just ignorant. You won't know unless you try it.

    I am not saying that if you go on Twitter and blast out sales links you will make money - because you won't. I am saying that Twitter is like a giant online chamber of commerce that offers endless networking opportunities, with minimal effort.
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  • Profile picture of the author TheMagicShow
    Steven you are an amazing marketer, don't take things so personal pal. I think that it is wrong to insult fellow warriors and this thread has turned into one of those.

    This place is all about building relationships and not burning bridges...Peace to all!
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    " You can either give a man a fish and feed him for a day OR teach him how to catch a fish and it will feed him for a lifetime"

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  • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
    Banned
    It's not uncommon for people who use a tool incorrectly or just don't know how to use it at all to say that it doesn't work. The fact is that it does work for some who know how to use it. Constantly spamming links is not how to use it.
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  • Profile picture of the author Dan Ambrose
    Come on guys, its clear that Twitter works for some and not for others. It all depends on how you approach it.

    EVERY traffic stream has potential... you just can't use the same tactics you use on Facebook for myspace or Twitter (or other social network sites). Each site has there uniquness, so driving traffic from there requires a unique approach.

    Daniel
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    • Profile picture of the author Michael Chris
      To Everyone:

      Okay, Twitter is hot, IF you can apply it to your business model... you should... definitely. If you can't (or feel you can't) or feel you are wasting your time... don't. It's a personal choice... results will vary from person to person.

      Now, that being said...

      It is reminiscent of FFA. (free for all links)

      It's time is now.... how long will it last? Who knows, but the prospect for it to morph into a major search player (rivaling google and youtube) is there... so there is long term potential.

      If you use MyNicheUsername instead of making it personal and do a lot of promotion... you may be subject to a mass purge at some point.

      Okay, that's all I have on twitter for now.

      Also, people who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. (Notice I don't mention any names... if you feel this is directed at you... then I guess it is.)

      I think probably some just need to get out the mats and blankies... take a nap and then have a snack.

      Cheers,
      Michael
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      Cook it for awhile in some nice butter or olive oil and you might be onto something!

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  • Profile picture of the author ryanbessling
    Twitter is a great place to connect and find JV partners.
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  • Profile picture of the author DeanJames
    I think Fabian was making an observation that Twitter may, in the grand scheme of things turn out to be a fad, relative to evergreen methods such as 'article marketing'. Time will tell. I do happen to agree with some of the points Fabian has made though. I know Jonathan Leger did a test from scratch the other day and generated some sales of his products via Twitter. I think people are fascinated with it right now both as a marketing platform and a place to connect with like minded individuals.

    - Dean
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