Is Google trying to 'hurt' email marketers?

11 years ago

There have been threads on this. Anyways, Google's not out to hurt email marketers per se. They're out to make their products and services as attractive as possible to their users. This just happens to be to the detriment of email marketers. They've got their own business to run, they're not worried about yours.

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StrawberrryBumblebee

11 years ago

I second that. Google doesn't care about hurting email marketers, they are trying to improve their product for their users.

*Whatevs* - evolve. Get used to some change coming down the pipe that freaks everybody out because they might have to do business slightly different. If you cut through the noise there is plenty of opportunity there. It may scare a few people off, but really, it's not that big a deal, just change up the way you do email marketing a little bitty bit and your golden. I don't think an extra tab is going to kill off a responsive list that wants to read your content...so, it's whatevs.

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kylenelson24

11 years ago

They are just trying to sift out the spammy marketers out there that have no clue how to truely do email marketing. I dont blame them!

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JohnMcCabe 11 years ago

Originally Posted by kylenelson24

They are just trying to sift out the spammy marketers out there that have no clue how to truely do email marketing. I dont blame them!

You mean spammy marketers like Amazon, Dole Foods, several local restaurants, a few TV networks as a quick sample of my own inbox.

I think a lot of IM/MMO types have an inflated view of their importance to Google, what with all the whining about Google being out to get IMers and such.

If the powers that be at Gmail really wanted to put your knickers in a twist, they'd simply block you.

Get over yourselves...
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CPH007

11 years ago

I would suggest that if you have a true responsive list that have double opted in then it is likely people will look for your emails and open them.

It's no different than Googles changes to search criteria. They are just trying to give what consumers want. If your not giving what consumers want then i would question how much of it you are going to sell.

As others have said just a small change will see you fine. Google PPC became very difficult for most squeeze pages but if you follow what they suggest you are fine and the things they suggest are likely to save you refunds, legal issues and give longer term business.

Cheers,

Colin

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CPH007

11 years ago

I would suggest that if you have a true responsive list that have double opted in then it is likely people will look for your emails and open them.

It's no different than Googles changes to search criteria. They are just trying to give what consumers want. If your not giving what consumers want then i would question how much of it you are going to sell.

As others have said just a small change will see you fine. Google PPC became very difficult for most squeeze pages but if you follow what they suggest you are fine and the things they suggest are likely to save you refunds, legal issues and give longer term business.

Cheers,

Colin

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Victor Edson

11 years ago

Yes! Google hates affiliate marketers with a passion and do not care about you or your business.

Don't rely on Google for anything.

I'm not trying to sound negative here.. but Google is definitely NOT a fan of the little guy. They're all grown up and too cool to hang out anymore

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Plugin Profits

11 years ago

Originally Posted by Victor Edson

Yes! Google hates affiliate marketers with a passion and do not care about you or your business.

Don't rely on Google for anything.

I'm not trying to sound negative here.. but Google is definitely NOT a fan of the little guy. They're all grown up and too cool to hang out anymore

I think what they hate is liability and spam. Affiliates basically shot themselves in the foot by being so aggressive and spammy (at least a percentage of them hurt everyone, especially black hatters). Therefore no one really likes affiliate marketers anymore cause they view them as spammers that reduce the quality and authenticity of networks (especially social networks). It's not cause they're little guys, it's cause of their tactics and numbers of them. We have to live with that bad rep and try to be as legit as possible.

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mervp

11 years ago

Originally Posted by Plugin Profits

I think what they hate is liability and spam. Affiliates basically shot themselves in the foot by being so aggressive and spammy (at least a percentage of them hurt everyone, especially black hatters). Therefore no one really likes affiliate marketers anymore cause they view them as spammers that reduce the quality and authenticity of networks (especially social networks). It's not cause they're little guys, it's cause of their tactics and numbers of them. We have to live with that bad rep and try to be as legit as possible.

Nope, Google is simply ending providing the marketing-friendly loss leader it used to rope in as many customers as possible. As others have noted, it has a business practice of offering nice stuff at first, then pulling it when it has grown a user base large enough to get away with it. They do this to the both white or black hat little guys, as per a business model that predates the spammers. Don't scapegoat other folks for something that was always part of Google's plan.

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damasgate

11 years ago

If you have good enough email, people will find your email no matter what. That is the kind of video marketer you should strive to become.

To me they are about 2-3 guys I will always read their emails consistently.

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Lateef Olajide

11 years ago

See, I don't agree google is doing this to hurt marketers in anyway.

I think it is even to the advantage of marketers because you have better opportunity to reach your audience inbox.

Don't just build list of subscribers. Get them on your social service too.

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Joe118

11 years ago

Originally Posted by Lateef Olajide

See, I don't agree google is doing this to hurt marketers in anyway.

I think it is even to the advantage of marketers because you have better opportunity to reach your audience inbox.

Don't just build list of subscribers. Get them on your social service too.

Yes, get them to interact with you on social and you'll be golden.

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clever7

11 years ago

Of course Google wants to hurt all email marketers and make us spend a lot more to reach our audience.

First of all, it started making everything harder for us with these Panda, Penguin, etc updates.

Then, it announced that it will discontinue the Google keyword tool, a very helpful tool.

Then, it created this division in the email box of Gmail users, who now can simply ignore all messages that are considered to be ‘Promotional’.

Google is taking advantage of its power, after being very generous with us for more than ten years.

Now that there are so many internet marketers online, Google decided to make everything always harder for us, so that we may conclude that the ‘only way’ to get traffic for sure is by using our Adwords account. With all the limitations we have now, the old free traffic we used to have in the past is simply disappearing.

Of course, there are many other solutions besides Adwords, but since Google is forcing everyone to spend money to get traffic and make sales, many people will surely conclude that Google Adwords is the best solution they have.

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Brian Tayler

11 years ago

Originally Posted by baokhau

Hi,

I have just found out that the Gmail inbox is divided into 3 tabs : Primary, Social, and Promotion. All the incoming messages that are derived from autoresponder services will be in the Promotion tabs. This nuisance will reduce the open rate of the promotion messages. How do you think about this and what is your solution?

"Just found out".... you're a little behind the curve.

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owais211

Banned 11 years ago

I don't think so
I found it to be an improvement and it could really boost email marketing.
This has been trending here at WF...its really no longer a new stuff,just check out on some threads here at WF

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Julius Minor 11 years ago

I think this will help us list builders out.. this is why we opt-in to get free information about the solution to our problem.. Guess what? The only competition is each other..
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Julius Minor

11 years ago

Originally Posted by owais211

I don't think so
I found it to be an improvement and it could really boost email marketing.
This has been trending here at WF...its really no longer a new stuff,just check out on some threads here at WF

Yes... They optin for a reason..

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aduttonater

11 years ago

I would say it's more user friendly for users. If a person wants to see what kind of promotions are being offered to them, then they have it all right there in an organized folder.

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TeamBringIt

11 years ago

Hmmmm...Google is taking away the adwords KW tool, they have created a new gmail layout, that can hurt marketers again. Google is doing, what ebay did years ago and many have quit selling on ebay...

Btw, I know google owns...the SE world, but does gmail dominate the email client world?

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GlenH

11 years ago

Originally Posted by TeamBringIt

Hmmmm...Google is taking away the adwords KW tool, they have created a new gmail layout, that can hurt marketers again. Google is doing, what ebay did years ago and many have quit selling on ebay...

Btw, I know google owns...the SE world, but does gmail dominate the email client world?

The Google Keyword Tool is just being integrated into their new Keyword Planner function.

It still functions the same way though

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Edwin Torres

11 years ago

They're trying to improve the 'user experience' which in turns makes it harder for us marketers to get our messages to them.

But...its too early to tell how everythings going to pan out.

I've read from the other threads on here that there might be some phrases or words we'll have to avoid if we want to make it to their primary tab.

We also might have to walk our users on how to mark us as important or trusted so our messages end up in their inbox.

But like I said only time will tell so we'll have to wait and see :-)

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hustlinsmoke

11 years ago

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BobTheBostonian

11 years ago

Originally Posted by hustlinsmoke

No I agree, google hates affiliates marketers. It shows in everything they do, but they sure do not have a problem with adsense do they. Take that to the bank.

Read & Repeat until it sinks in: Get over yourselves...

If affiliate marketers didn't completely suck, Google would "love" them. Google doesn't give a f*** about what anyone's doing with their websites. They care about what is helpful to their users and little else. Want proof?

Here's Google saying that they're going to keep showing pirate sites in results.

Hell, the entertainment industry probably pays for a lot of Google ads. They just made a 2 hour Google commercial in the form of The Internship. Google don't care brah, Google is going to do what is best for Google at any given moment and change their core philosophy to fit whatever their user base will respond best to.

Do you know why Google slaps down so many affiliate sites? It's not because their's some dork 20 year old picking and choosing who's life they're going to ruin. It's not because they want you to buy Adwords ads (they slap idiot marketers right out of that system all the time too: the only thing many are worse at than writing content is writing ad copy). It's because too many complete idiots buy these stupid systems and think that as soon as they find a nice looking keyword they're suddenly able to provide what a human is searching for.

It is one of the most robust examples of the Dunning-Kruger effect that is out there. People overestimate their competence in some pretty hilarious ways.

Very few people are talented enough to be in sales. Very few people know how to write in a way that real people care about. Very few people can make videos that actually respond to a search query with anything outside of a shoddy sales pitch.

Read and repeat until it sinks in: Get over yourselves...

Most affiliate marketers suck.

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Janice Sperry

11 years ago

Originally Posted by BobTheBostonian

Read and repeat until it sinks in: Get over yourselves...

Most affiliate marketers suck.

Welcome to Warrior Forum. I am sure you will make a lot of friends here.

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JohnMcCabe

11 years ago

Originally Posted by Janice Sperry

Welcome to Warrior Forum. I am sure you will make a lot of friends here.

Unless he screws it up, he's made one so far.

"Google" is a multi-billion dollar operation. The only time they even notice small-time marketers (and 99+% of us fit in that bracket) is when we get to be a pain in the tuchis.

To anthropomorph it into a vindictive personality with a grudge against IMers is a combination of paranoia and delusions of grandeur.

This latest development is a case in point.

Google changed the whole gmail interface because of a few thousand affiliate emails (or even a few millon)? And did it deliberately, as an act of spite?

Please...:rolleyes:

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clever7

11 years ago

Originally Posted by JohnMcCabe

Unless he screws it up, he's made one so far.

"Google" is a multi-billion dollar operation. The only time they even notice small-time marketers (and 99+% of us fit in that bracket) is when we get to be a pain in the tuchis.

To anthropomorph it into a vindictive personality with a grudge against IMers is a combination of paranoia and delusions of grandeur.

This latest development is a case in point.

Google changed the whole gmail interface because of a few thousand affiliate emails (or even a few millon)? And did it deliberately, as an act of spite?

Please...:rolleyes:

So, why is Google making so many changes in the online scenario and always pressuring us? If we are so insignificant, why all these attacks? Panda, Penguin, etc updates all the time. We didn't have this kind of problem before, did we?

Article marketing used to be a fantastic way to get traffic. Free traffic was not a problem in the past. However, after all these updates, SEO is dead and article marketing is dead.

Now, email marketing is becoming sick with this 'funny' idea. Why did Google decide to separate messages in the inbox of all Gmail users and give the 'exciting' title 'Promotions' (= Trash for some people) to email messages that come from online businesses?

And Gmail is an email service used by so many online users...

Why is Google having all these ideas only now, after more than ten years of freedom?

The scenario was quite different a few years ago. Why is Google so demanding now?

Do you believe that Google wants to finally protect the online users, after more than ten years of indifference?

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JohnMcCabe

11 years ago

Originally Posted by clever7

So, why is Google making so many changes in the online scenario and always pressuring us? If we are so insignificant, why all these attacks? Panda, Penguin, etc updates all the time. We didn't have this kind of problem before, did we?

Read what I said again. I'll even highlight it to make easier...

"Google" is a multi-billion dollar operation. The only time they even notice small-time marketers (and 99+% of us fit in that bracket) is when we get to be a pain in the tuchis.

What do you do when you get a mosquito bite? First, you slap the mosquito if you can. Penguin, Panda, all the way back to the Florida update years ago, were Google slapping an annoying mosquito.

If you look around, the only people who whined about this "attack" were the people exploiting loopholes to excess, to the point their actions became an irritant.

This tabbed email thing doesn't even measure up to that. If they really wanted to "hurt" you, they'd simply block your emails. If it was a pure money grab, as some suggested, they'd institute a "pay for delivery" system that would make Adwords look like a charity.

Whatever their reason, looking for people who want to join your pity party on a marketing forum isn't going to change anything. Except, maybe, for distracting you from figuring out a way to move on and profit from your business.

If you still see email tabs as some sort of evil conspiracy or an attempt to nanny your email, you may need another layer or two of tinfoil on your chapeau...

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clever7

11 years ago

Originally Posted by JohnMcCabe

Read what I said again. I'll even highlight it to make easier...

What do you do when you get a mosquito bite? First, you slap the mosquito if you can. Penguin, Panda, all the way back to the Florida update years ago, were Google slapping an annoying mosquito.

If you look around, the only people who whined about this "attack" were the people exploiting loopholes to excess, to the point their actions became an irritant.

This tabbed email thing doesn't even measure up to that. If they really wanted to "hurt" you, they'd simply block your emails. If it was a pure money grab, as some suggested, they'd institute a "pay for delivery" system that would make Adwords look like a charity.

Whatever their reason, looking for people who want to join your pity party on a marketing forum isn't going to change anything. Except, maybe, for distracting you from figuring out a way to move on and profit from your business.

If you still see email tabs as some sort of evil conspiracy or an attempt to nanny your email, you may need another layer or two of tinfoil on your chapeau...

Forgive me if I seemed to be too audacious. I don't doubt you know a lot more about internet marketing than I do. You are one of my heroes in this forum.

If I didn't know you know a lot more than I do, I would conclude that you are too naïve for believing that Google simply wanted to get rid of the spammers.

I believe that Google had an evil plan from the beginning. Google was extremely tolerant and generous in the first years of the internet, but it had the intention to be quite demanding after a certain period of time.

It was only waiting until many people would make money online to put its evil plan into action, and drink the blood of all business owners.

However, since I know that I'm ignorant because internet marketing is not my field and I visit this forum mainly to learn what intelligent and well-informed internet marketers like you have to say, I must conclude that my supposition was ridiculous. Google is not a monster.

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JohnMcCabe

11 years ago

Originally Posted by clever7

I believe that Google had an evil plan from the beginning. Google was extremely tolerant and generous in the first years of the internet, but it had the intention to be quite demanding after a certain period of time.

It was only waiting until many people would make money online to put its evil plan into action, and drink the blood of all business owners.

Take away the word "evil" and the vampire references, and you're probably not far off. Providing services/products for free or extremely low cost until users become dependent is a model many high-end software companies use. So do drug dealers. And marketing organizations in between.

Heck, the whole shareware business was built on getting people to use software and then pay for it when paying for it was cheaper and easier than finding and starting over with a new alternative.

So was the autoresponder business. Are they "evil"?

Whether the individuals that run Google, Inc. are evil or not is a matter of personal opinion. What's not a matter of opinion is their fiduciary responsibility to the thousands of owners (shareholders). The law is pretty clear, I think, that their primary responsibility is to maximize returns to those owners as best they can within the law.

Want to change the way Google, Inc. (or any other public company) does things? Acquire enough voting stock and/or proxies to influence company policy. That's the only way.

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Mark Alan

11 years ago

That is the absolute technical truth of the matter. I gave up trying to explain it that way to webmasters years ago. If somebody at Google comes up with a plan that will make Google billions of dollars but they also know it will also destroy the world economy in the process Google (as does any other corporation) has a legal obligation to approve and follow that plan as long as it is legal. If they don't the board of directors would be liable to the shareholders for lost profits in a derivative action.

It is a real problem here in the U.S. and this is why you need regulation of big corporations. They won't do the right thing they will only do what makes them the most money.

Originally Posted by JohnMcCabe

Whether the individuals that run Google, Inc. are evil or not is a matter of personal opinion. What's not a matter of opinion is their fiduciary responsibility to the thousands of owners (shareholders). The law is pretty clear, I think, that their primary responsibility is to maximize returns to those owners as best they can within the law.

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Plugin Profits 11 years ago

Lol. Business people are not against this business model and practice, just like all other business marketing tactics that work. They only complain when it effects their own bottom line, even though they'd do the same things themself.

Despite having so many free products and services, Google is a business. And especially cause of all of their free products they need to continually find new ways to create revenue, which is from advertisers in their business model.

The one downside of the business model of free products and services that rely on 3rd party advertising, is how a lot of people jump up and down and scream unfair as soon as the monetary part diminishes their experience of the free product or service. Though the upside is like with Google, they build a massive audience from the free services and gain a monopoly of a segment of the market.

Some of their tactics really are badly done for the consumer though. Especially their free maps app. It's an awesome service and one I've been quite dependent on as I'd often be lost (literally) without it. I'm highly appreciative of it and all that went into creating such an extensive complex service and all for free! So I can't complain. However it is truly annoying how when you type in the exact address you want to get directions for, it now almost never gives you directions to that address. Instead it creates a line and directions from where you are to where the nearest paid sponsor location is nearest the address you actually are trying to get to! And it's not immediate obvious that it isn't the address you typed in. You have to notice and know the difference in the little icons for each and what they mean, and then find the red flag yourself to click on to get the REAL directions. Not having noticed this in the past, I frequently went to the wrong address before I noticed I was following directions to a paid sponsor listing! Obviously tricking users to benefit ad buyers is more important than best user experience!
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BobTheBostonian

11 years ago

Looks like I hit a sore spot. But with raging success like | Just another WordPress site I'm sure you know better.

*Eyeroll*

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BobTheBostonian

11 years ago

Well over 90%, if I were a betting kind of dude. Let's be real buddy: if we started auditing the online efforts of each and every Warrior the results are not going to be pretty for most. Heck that domain I linked to in my previous post might even be in the upper percentile.

And I'm not the one playing "expert". Again refer to your IM domain that you so graciously provided in your blog. I really hope none of those free ebooks are about setting up Wordpress sites or following through on case studies/testing.

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jorgesil

11 years ago

I've a few thoughts on this development, in no particular order.

1) As people have said, if you're delivering value through your emails, you've got nothing to worry about.

2) Many people the newspapers so they can read the ads. People like shopping. Stop thinking of email as a way to "sneak in" advertising. I'll bet plenty of people click on the "promotions" tab just to see if there are any good deals that day. I know I do. I LOVE looking at the latest plugins, traffic systems, etc. Just like plenty of folks LOVE the sunday paper becuase of all the ads.

3) I've also noticed that Google is putting in ads that look very similar to emails, kind of like sponsored results always appear above organic results in search.

Just like any other company, Google is focused on it's bottom line. This is a way to generate more clicks from within Gmail while at the same time, hopefully making it more convenient for the end user.

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Plugin Profits

11 years ago

Originally Posted by jorgesil

3) I've also noticed that Google is putting in ads that look very similar to emails, kind of like sponsored results always appear above organic results in search.

So there you go then. Their motive... Want to get noticed in people's inbox, buy an email ad.

Just like Facebook making their Edge Ranking more difficult to organically get seen by your own fans in their newsfeeds, it's only partially to improve users experience and the other part is to increase sales of promoted posts. It's only smart business on their part looking at increasing their bottom line. Think that unsolicited promoted posts and "Facebook suggests this app for you" ads add to the user experience more than content you actually subscribed to? :rolleyes:

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edhuu

11 years ago

As long as you maintain your relastionship with your subs, it wont affect much to your open rates

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TimothyTorrents

11 years ago

I don't think they hate email marketers. They hate spam. Unfortunately, a lot of email marketers can be considered spammers which gives email marketing a bad rep. Regardless, if you provide value, people on your email list will always read your messages.

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asiriusthoth

11 years ago

The bothersome thing is when you have actual clients you are trying to email from your company email (which is an important email) and it goes to their "promotions", or even worse, spam box.

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Larry Leggett

11 years ago

Google is not going to provide their email services by taking email marketers into account. They will care about their mail services and they will always try to improve it. All you have to do, is to change your strategy according to the changes takes place.

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Mark Alan

11 years ago

Google isn’t trying to hurt marketers they are trying to maximize their profit, and as always who it hurts never factors into the equation. I get a kick out of all the folks that think Google is some sort of benevolent corporation that is only looking out for their users. The truth is Google is a heartless corporation that will always act in a way that maximizes their profits, and nothing else.

So try and dismiss any warm feelings you have for them. When your participation in one of their profit centers benefits them they will allow you to participate in it. When the time comes where they feel like they can generate greater profits without you they will end or greatly diminish your participation in that profit center. It really is that simple.

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BobTheBostonian

11 years ago

Bro, do you even business?

No one who is speaking in favor of Google here is saying that they are 100% benevolent. That's moronic. But to take it to the other extreme and insinuate that user experience is not a major part (in fact the crux) of how they maximize profit is just the other side of the moronic coin.

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Mark Alan

11 years ago

Bro - I have been in this business since 1998. Objectively looking at it the user experience has very little to do with how Google operates now. Someone hit on this earlier in the thread, but often the user experience is good at the launch of a new product. Once the product is successful they make it much less user friendly and very commercial.

For example is there a regular user out there that would think today’s highly commercialized search result on a term like “vacuum cleaner” is better than the clean commercial free result they would have gotten in Google’s early days?

Truthfully, I’d go further than the guy or gal that made that point and say that Google’s doesn’t even bother to employ that model anymore. As more often than not a new Google product is simply force fed to the user. For example if you want a You Tube or Gmail account you’re going to get Google Plus account even if you don't want it.

Another example of a Google product that results in a poor user experience is Google Flights. Go ahead try it. Simply type flights to wherever in Google.

Now think of the poor sap that uses that to book his flights he is getting screwed hard without lube.

Originally Posted by BobTheBostonian

Bro, do you even business?

No one who is speaking in favor of Google here is saying that they are 100% benevolent. That's moronic. But to take it to the other extreme and insinuate that user experience is not a major part (in fact the crux) of how they maximize profit is just the other side of the moronic coin.

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Alex Blades

11 years ago

Of course Google hates IMer's, but what can you do about it? We can either whine about it, or we can move on to life without Google.

I learned the hard way not to depend on Google, after they hit my sites with the penguin update. Panda wasn't bad for me, but then they sent out a penguin ninja, and killed all my affiliate sites. I don't like the new tabs, but I can't sit around worrying about things I can't control.

Me personally, I seen the tabs, and had them disabled about 20 seconds later. I don't like them, I don't need Google sorting through my emails, telling me which ones are promotions or social. I am a big boy, and am able to choose which emails I want to open.

Thanks

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" I knew that if I failed, I wouldn't regret that.
But I knew the one thing I might regret is not ever having tried. "

~ Jeff Bezos

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Dutto

11 years ago

Google does not care about e-mail marketers, they care about their end users. This is going to hurt spammers more than serious marketers.

Thanks

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