Question: In this case, would you think the ends justify the means?

[Johnathan]

Hi,

There was a post about online gambling (most predominately 'online poker'), and how apparently some people are trying to pass legislation to get it active in the US again.

Now, first off, many people (of course) say it was not right that the 'right' to make their own decision was taken away (i.e., whether or not they play), however, it was. Now, "they" are considering letting the public make their own decision again with respect to online gambling (i.e., poker). However, the online poker scene has been way overhyped, and I think most people's burning desire to play poker is the idea of 'getting rich quick'. They think that they can deposit a couple hundred dollars, and 3-4 hours later walk away with $5,000. Some people do. Most don't.

Now, in this other thread, a lot of people were salivating at the thought of being able to offer 'affiliate' (gambling) products, because it would be a lucrative market. Of course it would.

However, in order to make money with respect to the gambling scene, generally speaking other people will be losing money, and losing big. So if you were to make $5,000/month, most likely the people playing would be losing at least $50,000 or more in order for you to make $5,000. Would you be happy with that?

[Kay King]

Pulling numbers out of the air isn't effective - and neither is taking responsibility for how someone else uses any site or product.

I think most people's burning desire to play poker is the idea of 'getting rich quick'

I'd say you have little or no experience of poker rooms. The high stakes games you see on TV aren't found in most casino poker rooms.
Poker players love the game and the strategies of playing. The lowest "hold" in casinos are the poker rooms.

I have mixed feelings about this proposal. I dislike this quest by govts at all levels for more and more money. Yet people gamble using offshore sites that are unregulated and unsupervised. No guarantees that the play is honest while at the same time offline gambling in the US is closely regulated by the states.

There are two ways to minimize risk in gambling:

1. Knowing the best way to play each game
2. Knowing when to quit

You can only minimize risk of gambling if you are playing a fair game.

kay

[Tyrus Antas]

Most people lose money when they buy make money online products. Sellers know this, but they sell anyway. Most investments people make go bad. Only a small percentage of people really "win". That's a fact of life.

Tyrus

[bgmacaw]

There will be time enough for counting when the dealin's done...

YouTube - Kenny Rogers' The Gambler on the Muppet...

[R Hagel]

Sure, gambling can create disaster, financial ruin, etc. But it also serves as entertainment for some -- even cheap entertainment.

I Know someone who goes to the casino about once a month or so with $30 or $40. She doesn't go out to movies, go out to eat, etc -- going to the casino is where she chooses to spend her entertainment funds. She says she spends a few hours getting entertained, just like someone who goes out for a night on the town -- except she has a chance of winning something.

Anyway, my point is that it's not all completely evil...



Fire -- it can cook your dinner or burn down your house.

Pain killers -- they can get rid of your headache or land you in the ER.

Wine -- it can enhance a great meal or be the start of a horrible addiction.

Water -- it can save your life in the desert or take your life in the ocean.

The mall -- it can be a place to buy whatever you need, or it can be a shopaholics downfall that destroys his/her finances, ruins relationships, etc.

And so on.

cheers,
Becky

[Johnathan]

Originally Posted by TMG Enterprises

I would promote gambling affiliates (providing they were reputable companies) - why not? People go to casinos all the time and many lose money. Are the casinos evil because they make a profit?

Most people gamble as a form of entertainment. I don't see the problem with helping them find a way to keep themselves entertained.

Most people buy info-products that sit on their hard drive collecting dust so they've essentially lost money. Does that bother you?

Tina G

Actually, no, I didn't say anything about "evil". And of course there is nothing wrong with making a profit.

My concern is that in this case, it is a profit "at the expense" of someone else. Many cases, if you buy a book -- both parties profit, you get money, they get a book. In most cases with respect to casinos, people don't know how to discern between "entertainment" and "addiction". And the end result is the lose, and usually lose big. That's why there is gambler's anonymous. So, my question was, knowing that chances are someone 'else' will 'lose' at the expense of any profit you make through casino items, would you still promote it?

[Mary Green]

I think you are over thinking it. If you dont do the affiliate work for these poker sites, someone else will, not to mention, the people who want to play poker are going to play whether you are an affiliate or not. You can't make yourself responsible for them taking action on your ad. Everyone has free will. Oh, and if you do CPA offers, they dont have to lose 50k a month for you to make 5k.

[R Hagel]

Originally Posted by Johnathan

My concern is that in this case, it is a profit "at the expense" of someone else. Many cases, if you buy a book -- both parties profit, you get money, they get a book.

There's a percentage of people who'll never even crack open the book. They've essentially thrown their money away because they don't benefit at all. I wonder if the same percentage of people who do this are also about the same percentage of people who are addicted to gambling?

In most cases with respect to casinos, people don't know how to discern between "entertainment" and "addiction".

Most cases -- so you're saying more than 50% of the people who play at casinos are addicted? Can you point me to some stats?

[Johnathan]

Hi Kay,

What do you base your assumption on? Also, I am referring to online poker, not poker in casinos. A lot of the action of course is in slots/other card games, etc, although more and more casinos are getting more tables for poker.

Anyways, actually ultimatebet was found to be "cheating" a few years ago (or rather a few ppl had special access and knew what everyone else's cards were, what the coming cards were, etc).

My point is, many people that play online poker, in particular the ones that can't afford to play, get caught up in the hoopla, and given what the media shows as the current "economic climate", it might not be the best route to go. I.e., someone wants to get rich quick so dumps their savings into one "all-in", just to find it doesn't pay off, so keep doing that until they lose a lot more than they bargained for.

Originally Posted by Kay King

Pulling numbers out of the air isn't effective - and neither is taking responsibility for how someone else uses any site or product.



I'd say you have little or no experience of poker rooms. The high stakes games you see on TV aren't found in most casino poker rooms.
Poker players love the game and the strategies of playing. The lowest "hold" in casinos are the poker rooms.

I have mixed feelings about this proposal. I dislike this quest by govts at all levels for more and more money. Yet people gamble using offshore sites that are unregulated and unsupervised. No guarantees that the play is honest while at the same time offline gambling in the US is closely regulated by the states.

There are two ways to minimize risk in gambling:

1. Knowing the best way to play each game
2. Knowing when to quit

You can only minimize risk of gambling if you are playing a fair game.

kay

[Johnathan]

Actually, it's not the same thing.

"Gambling" can become very addictive, very quickly, and generally, most people lose (overall). You might have one or two "big" nights every now and then, but how long did it take you to get that, and are you actually ahead?

As for investments, you are mistaken, and it's not a 'fact' -- unless you are referring to say stocks, and people who don't do their research and "gamble", hoping the market will go one way or the other.

Originally Posted by Tyrus Antas

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[JohnMcCabe]

Johnathan, you seem awfully presumptuous and high-handed here. Or, to put it more bluntly, who died and made you God?

Every person has the inborn right to be responsible for their own decisions - and their consequences. To sit on high and proclaim that you can do that and they can't diminishes them, makes them less than you.

And you have no right to do that...

Yes, there are foolish people who will watch a few hours of poker on TV and decide the game is pretty easy. They'll decide to try their new-found 'skill' playing online poker. And some of them will decide to get in deeper than they should.

Those decisions belong to the person making them. Period.

If the idea of someone going into the deep end of the pool before they can swim due to your efforts bothers you, don't make those efforts. That decision belongs to you.

On a lighter note, Ron White does a riff about playing poker. He talks about watching hours of TV poker on the road, and getting to think he was pretty good at it. Got to Las Vegas and went into a poker room. Found the game a lot harder when he couldn't see the other players' cards. "Lost my assssss..."