Another newbie tried to sell me an "Article Marketing Course"

[Achilles1963]

It seems that all the newbies that learned anything from you warriors lately are only interested in a few niches, "Internet Marketing","Article Marketing" etc., Don't these people know that the professionals already own that niche, if i'm going to buy a course on marketing of any kind, I'll go to Travis or Steve Wagenheim or somebody i know is an established pro, not somebody i never heard of

[D Ambrose]

I agree with you to a point. However I also like to give the newbies a chance to get their foot in. Remember - you were there once too.

Daniel

[Achilles1963]

I am still a newbie, I have my first 2 sites up and have wrote 4 articles, but pleeeze all i'm saying is have a little imagination, we can't all sell marketing courses to other salesman (we could, but jeez, for cryin out loud already)

[Mary Green]

I think everyone is trying to sell their success model to others. People get successful or find a new thing that works and wants to make a quick buck off it. I dont blame them and some of the ideas are really great, so if you are a newbie and you have something original, ill check it out.

[nicholasb]

article marketing is the most basic advice and should never be mentioned in a paid product again, everyone knows about it, plus it is very tedious work if not done right, there are 100 different ways I can think of to work smarter and in turn make more money a whole lot easier

the whole point of article marketing is to get it ranked in google, not to sit there and slam out 30 articles a day, yeah mass article writing will get you a few sales but in the end it will just discourage many, because the time and effort that is required to get just a few sales

[James Liberty]

Originally Posted by Achilles1963

all i'm saying is have a little imagination, we can't all sell marketing courses to other salesman

Sorry, but this is exactly what the internet marketing niche is.

[GuerrillaIM]

It amazes me how people with no marketing experience insist on targetting the IM niche. I have lost count of the posts I have seen where people are complaining they haven't made any money after years of effort and their signature says something like "How to make an easy $1000 a day click here". There is some real authenticity for you :P

[jensrsa]

Originally Posted by James Legacy

Sorry, but this is exactly what the internet marketing niche is.

How many products are being sold with MRR and PLR and the sales pages focus on how much money you can make selling the product rather than on the product itself.

No wonder people are all trying to sell the same stuff to the same "customers".

Sometimes you even buy the same product under different titles as I did recently when looking for some content I could work with for a new site.

Jens

[Asher]

Originally Posted by Achilles1963

I'll go to Travis or Steve Wagenheim or somebody i know is an established pro, not somebody i never heard of

Someone you've never heard of doesn't mean that the
person isn't an established professional. I know TONS
of people who do not know these names...

• Zig Ziglar
• Jim Rohn
• Frank Kern
• Mike Filsaime
• Jay Abraham
• Rich Schefren
• etc

But if that person decided to waive off these people
just because they don't know them or think they have
weird sounding names, they'll be missing out a lot.

Like what Daniel (mm365) said - you can either give
newbies a chance... never be too quick to assume that
others "don't know" what they are doing. You'd be
surprised with what they can come up with.

My $0.02

Asher

[Magic Johnson]

Newbies could get taught some manners by their teacher.

There's just sooo much more than just going after your jedi master teacher and competing with her on Internet & article marketing.

If Gurus (teachers) can't tell these things to newbies, how are newbies supposed to Know what market they like to dive in to.

I blame them for the lack of understanding and manners from Newbies.


Where are the manners in IM?

I suppose these newbies did never follow a good enough teacher.

[Achilles1963]

Well for what it's worth i would just as soon sell...ipods, insurance, collectibles, Bibles, televisions, cutlery sets, or just about ANYTHING that everybody and their brother isn't already selling! Does that really seem out of line or silly?

[Magic Johnson]

Originally Posted by Asher

Like what Daniel (mm365) said - you can either give
newbies a chance... never be too quick to assume that
others "don't know" what they are doing. You'd be
surprised with what they can come up with.

My $0.02

Asher

So you are saying that the OP didn't do her research and are just guess gaming that this "Someone" is a newbie.

Are this what you are saying??

I assume the OP knows what she talks about by doing her research or she could even see the lack of knowledge by this "newbie?"

Your list is great with Zig Ziglar and the likes, but they have no reason to be mentioned along unless you Know OPs point of view.

You have bias which tells she lacks in knowledge, and a "Green thumb" from a "Master" can't get determined by her.

Also our knowledge level are different too, Achilles1963 may have gone out of the most basic Article Marketing states and are now a Veteran article Marketer, so there's no need to follow Newbie advice. Think about it.

[MikeCollins]

Originally Posted by Achilles1963

Well for what it's worth i would just as soon sell...ipods, insurance, collectibles, Bibles, televisions, cutlery sets, or just about ANYTHING that everybody and their brother isn't already selling! Does that really seem out of line or silly?

Achilles, if no one is selling something it could be because no one is buying. Competition is a good thing because it means there is demand. There's definitely a lot of crap products in the "make money" niche but make no mistake its a market with a seemingly endless appetite.

[MobileEyeGuy]

Originally Posted by Achilles1963

Well for what it's worth i would just as soon sell...ipods, insurance, collectibles, Bibles, televisions, cutlery sets, or just about ANYTHING that everybody and their brother isn't already selling! Does that really seem out of line or silly?

Achilles...don't take this wrong , I mean no offense, But yes what your saying does seem silly if you think about it in the right way.
Your profile say you live in Denver.....how many STARBUCKS are in your area?
Where I live it seems like there is one on every corner!....but why? Because a LOT of people BUY & DRINK Coffee.

Do you see what I'm saying....Like mike collins said, " the make money niche has an endless appetite" if your a newbie or old school there is allways money to be made in the IM niche, at different levels, with more and more people getting online EVERY day, and wanting the freedom that IM brings, even if evrybody and his brother is selling IM products, it will never be flooded.

Once you make yer bones a little, find what worked for you, there will allways be someone willing to buy that knowledge.
I think you stand a better chance of making money with an IM product rather than with cutlery.

Just My 2

[David Chamberlain]

Hi Everyone

I don't agree with this thread really.

I have been building up my own online business since February 17th, so I guess that makes me a newbie. Would you agree?

Well maybe it does, but it totally depends on the individual. I came online - not to get rich quick, but to work for myself, and build a successful network of businesses. I have learnt a hell of a lot in these months - I still work full time, so it's all been done part time.

At the moment I have various ongoing projects - all could be of use to any internet marketer - and just because I am considered a newbie, it doesn't mean you know everything I know. One rule I live by - is to never say 'I already know that' as you never know what that persons next sentence will be, it may be something you already know - but explained in a different way, which makes you see it in a different light.

It's inevitable that people who are new today will overtake people who have been doing this for years. So one of todays newbies, could be a 'well known name' in internet marketing in a few years time.

Will you still not buy their products?

Regards

Dave

[Achilles1963]

But i am a real life salesman and probably have lots more experience than most IMer's so i was really kind of speaking tongue in cheek, i always see inexperienced salesman trying to cherrypick or chase a tired over-exploited dollar because it requires no thought, Well, I guess thats what separates the men from the boys. Now if i could only figure out how to do HTMl...

[ph1470]

It is possible, although unlikely that a newbie will have a ground-breaking idea.

I have been doing IM for a little more than a year now and while I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed I certainly have figured out a few little tricks here and there on my own that have really helped my profits grow.

Now although nobody knows who I am it doesn't necessarily mean that what I have to offer is worthless.

The question is how much is it worth? Even Frank Kern started out somewhere.

[J smith]

There are a few reasons t buy from newbies though and nt from gurus. One is that newbiews by the very definition are closer to people who are just starting out. Having recently faced the same problems and questions a new person is facing. Newbies income is also closer to what someone starting might be trying t achieve.

I would imagine for a lot of gurus, it's hard to even see things from a new person's perspective. It's just human nature, if something is easy for you, you often take it for granted while for some people it might be really hard and confusing. Ie, how do you set up a site etc.

In the end though, it is about the quality of a product and how well it aligns with your needs and goals. A newbie can potentially provide a great product, that suits you better than those provided by the gurus. So don't count newbies out

[Dennis-White]

Originally Posted by nicholasb

article marketing is the most basic advice and should never be mentioned in a paid product again, everyone knows about it, plus it is very tedious work if not done right, there are 100 different ways I can think of to work smarter and in turn make more money a whole lot easier

the whole point of article marketing is to get it ranked in google, not to sit there and slam out 30 articles a day, yeah mass article writing will get you a few sales but in the end it will just discourage many, because the time and effort that is required to get just a few sales

well said, I agree with that... You need to focus on obtaining leads to build a long term biz with article marketing rather then trying to direct sell through article marketing

[Michael Motley]

Originally Posted by Mary Green

I think everyone is trying to sell their success model to others. People get successful or find a new thing that works and wants to make a quick buck off it. I dont blame them and some of the ideas are really great, so if you are a newbie and you have something original, ill check it out.

"Success" isn't getting an article approved by ezinearticles then writing a wso on your long a tiring journey to the top.

[Mrs Z]

I personally cannot afford many of the programs promoted by the well known gurus, so if I can find something similar, within my budget, and it covers the information I am seeking...it doesn't matter, to me, if the marketer is a newbie...as long as the information is worthy, relevant and helpful.

[Gallery Sites]

Hmm... a topic right up my alley.

As the net is constantly changing, so are the products and services. Everyone is always trying to 'one up' one another. Maybe their course is a new method, have you considered that? Or at the very least, you should always be interested in what your competition has to offer. You may have overlooked something that they can capitalize on.

Now, I don’t claim to be an expert in Article Marketing, or Internet Marketing by any means.
I am first and foremost a ‘directory owner’ just trying to bring worthy products to my members.
Everyone who uses articles for promoting their own product or service, is just looking for the
simplest way to automate their efforts with the most cost-effective solutions.

Whether you're a newbie submitting an article for the first time, or you dominate the article marketing industry, everyone wants the same results. I have yet to find that perfect course... as it's evolutionary!

And since I'm in the process of bringing effective article marketing methods to my members,
maybe the pro's would be willing to share what they know. Consider it an open invitation for a JV.
Care to put your money where your mouth is?

I'm all ears...

[Randy Bheites]

Newbies teaching IM = blind leading the blind.

Which then creates a whole new secondary market: burnt n00bs looking for Real Info From Someone Who Has Actually Succeeded.

Mo money.

[ph1470]

Heck! Bill Gates and Paul Allen were once newbies themselves. The IBM thing fell into their laps because Gary Kildall passed on it.

I say keep tryin and don't ever give up! You never know when that break thru is going to happen.

[Achilles1963]

I think everybody missed the point i was trying to make, i wasn't saying that newbies don't know anything, or should be discounted, all i was trying to say is that all they want to sell is IM products, it reminds me of MLM where everybody spends their time recruiting, training and motivating people to do...the exact same thing , no effort is made to be a real merchant just a bunch of people running around trying to sell the exact same information to each other! Even Graham Maddison just ran a post about writing an IM course and asking if it was just a un-needed rehash that the world could do without.

[russellprisco]

I'm going to have to disagree with the majority of you and side with MobileEyeGuy and dave_667.

I understand what you all are saying, "the blind leading the blind", they have no right teaching it because X, Y and Z... It overcrowds the market, yada yada yada... And I can see how they are valid points to each of you.

At the same time though, I don't think that you have to have the real life experience to know what to do. Sure of course that would be the preferred method, but that doesn't mean that it shouldn't be done if you know what you're talking about.

Suppose you are a cigarette smoker... Could you tell someone else how to quit? I mean, if you're a smoker... don't you "know" how to quit, even though you haven't done it yourself?

(If you don't I'll help you out, and now you'll be able to pass it on... Quit putting that darn thing in your mouth and lighting it. There, now spread the word.)

In fact, most people don't do much reading, and therefore if you were to read, for example 5-10 books from experts that did know what they were talking about that had the experience, don't you think that that person would now Substantially MORE than someone that has not read a single book on that topic? So wouldn't you technically be percieved as an expert in the eye of that other person.

Even the top IM Gurus are not Gurus to other top Gurus in the same field, because they posses similar knowledge.

I think that many IMers forget that they once too were newbies, and that they didn't even know what a domain name was at one time. (that goes for EVERYONE of us)

A perfect example of this was me with Real Estate Investing. At one time, I did not even know what the word "mortgage" meant. And yet I saw one of those late night infomercials that I'm sure all too many of you are familiar with... and ended up purchasing the course. I listened to it so many times that I could literally listen to the beginning of any sentence and finish this man's words.

I then later ended up seeing an ad in my local newspaper for the company that I learned about real estate investing from, and because I had studied so much and internalized it, I ended up becoming a Real Estate Advisor for the company. I later quit the company and invested in Real Estate and made good money (turns out I hated it though and which helped me to realize my true calling as an IMer...everything happens for a reason!)

So while I had started by investing in my first piece of property, I was for sure still a newb when I took the position as an advisor. So my point is, I was a newb, teaching other newbs... but I was an educated newb on the subject i was teaching. And I'm sure I helped many people make a lot of money.

There was a company that my friends were involved with that promoted self improvement and top selling books and courses. I notieced that Tony Robbins wasn't in there at all, and when I asked about this, they said that they left him out because he made money from telling people how to be successful before he actually was...

This was absolutely ridiculous to me considering his MASSIVE success and knowing that he has helped SOO many people, and if you are familiar with Tony's work, you know what a loss this was for the people in this company. That is actually one of the things that turned me off from it. I mean, obviously, he got a couple things right... don't you think? And if that is true what they said, he did it knowing what to do even though he had not yet done it himself....

Just think of all the lives that would not have been positively impacted by Tony Robbins if he held that poor philosophy. (tens of thousands of people...)

Finally, there are SO many people out there that are coming into the IM world everyday, let alone the ones that just got started yesterday, the day before (and so on and so on....) that it doesn't really matter if it becomes "flooded" with newbies trying to teach newbies as long as they're delivering on good quaility applicable content.

There is only abbundance in this world. If you already know what another person is teaching, then just DON'T Buy Their Product! lol...

And as far as this part...

Originally Posted by Achilles1963

But i am a real life salesman and probably have lots more experience than most IMer's so i was really kind of speaking tongue in cheek, i always see inexperienced salesman trying to cherrypick or chase a tired over-exploited dollar because it requires no thought, Well, I guess thats what separates the men from the boys. Now if i could only figure out how to do HTMl...

While everybody is obviously always selling something to somebody, whether to your kids, customers, friends or prospects on or offline... having "Sales Experience" is not the same as having Internet Marketing Experience (as I'm 100% sure 100% of all in the know IMers will agree). I'm sure that there are plenty of IMers on the forum here that have more IM experience but less sales experience than you that are making substantially more money than you. Being a great salesman is a part of the process (gaining rapport, eliciting their outcome etc...), but that alone is not enough to succeed here.

And did you ever think that these people simply do all of this becasue they simply are doing the best they can with what they have and just don't know a better way? I'm sure when you first started out in sales, you made 95% of the same rookie mistakes as the rest of us sales people when we first got started. And if you didn't, then you probably learned from someone that had already gone through the trials and tribulations, or read some good literature by someone that had.

In fact, if you didn't make 95% of the mistakes in the beginning, you obviously knew enough about the trade, and you should have written a book about it!

ha ha ha... lol... too funny..

I know this was a long post, but something just kind of got to me about this.

One last thing for newbies that DO want to teach other newbies... Google IMA John Reese and see if you can find that initial video he had for his IMA course.

Instead of trying to pretend you know it all, or if you'd rather gain experience before giving out advice, don't try to put yourself off as a "GURU"... instead, think of yourself as a consultant or an advisor that can recommend OTHER people's products and services that do have the real life experience.

Peace Out,

~Russell Prisco =)

[Craig Fenton]

Hi Achilles:

Hope all is well today. Thanks for the post.

If I may offer a more middle of the road point of view. Somebody may not be new but first coming aboard the forum.

In addition there have always been exceptions to the rule and by keeping an open mind the consumer can prevent excellent work from being rebuffed. Here are a few examples.

I am sure I am much older than you but maybe some of the Warriors in their 40's and up will remember a basketball player Moses Malone. He came out of high school at age 18 (much rarer than) and without college or a semi-pro background would proceed to go into the Hall Of Fame. Currently LeBron James is one of the 5 best players on the planet and again was earning millions before he could go to a night club.

In rock and roll how did history play out when Decca records didn't think the Beatles could be of relevance? They changed the universe because EMI/Capitol believed in talent not age or experience.

Didn't a recent article show that a large percentage of US Billionaires didn't have college degrees? I would never shut anybody out because they have 1 post, 40, or 799. Let's all look at the content they offer and not only the time spent here, there, or anywhere.

Thanks for your time.

[Gary J Martin]

One name not mentioned above is Tim Gorman, who I would consider is the best in terms of teaching article marketing.
But as for "newbies" creating products, it depends on the quality.
Everybody does have to start somewhere, even Reese and Kern.

[Takuya Hikichi]

Good materials do not need to be new or sensational. Certainly, there is plenty of room for new internet marketers to innovate an existing technique and rightfully sell them.

When less experienced marketers decide to create products in "already popular" niches, they're forced to research, experiment, and practice so that their products will stand.

Plus if new people can persuade others to buy something, that means they may be onto a great copywriting career -- Good for them and congratulate them.

I've purchased so many products from experienced marketers with little tips in it. As long as I experience a fresh view about the subject by purchasing the product, I am satisfied.

I'll buy from new or experienced marketers as long as I am persuaded right. If I don't like them, I'll ask for refund.

[Anomaly1974]

Reading through this reminds me of so many reasons I try to stay out of the IM niche LOL

Article marketing is about a lot more than getting keyword ranking on Google ... or should be.

"Learn How to get rich quick overnight absolutely free while you sleep and wake up rich" in the signature for a post like ... now can anybody here on the forum show me how to make some money?

Everything you ever needed to know about getting rich online for only 97 bucks ... and you too can have five whole pages of information that give you absolutely nothing of value!

LOL While I would have to agree with many of the points put across on this post, I have to also thank you for giving me the opportunity to laugh for a while as well.

Just because someone is new, does not mean that they are not good. What is that noobs name in the NBA? That rookie who just scored like 37 points in 23 minutes? I bet people who did not know his name before know it now ... at least if they watch the NBA.

Just saying ...

[Asher]

Originally Posted by Magic Johnson

So you are saying that the OP didn't do her research and are just guess gaming that this "Someone" is a newbie.

Are this what you are saying??

I assume the OP knows what she talks about by doing her research or she could even see the lack of knowledge by this "newbie?"

Your list is great with Zig Ziglar and the likes, but they have no reason to be mentioned along unless you Know OPs point of view.

You have bias which tells she lacks in knowledge, and a "Green thumb" from a "Master" can't get determined by her.

Also our knowledge level are different too, Achilles1963 may have gone out of the most basic Article Marketing states and are now a Veteran article Marketer, so there's no need to follow Newbie advice. Think about it.

Hi Magic Johnson,

I'm not sure what ticked you off but no, I didn't write
the response to say that she doesn't know anything.
I'm stating that people should not just flip off newbies
for their lack of knowledge.

Everyone starts somewhere. And I drew up the list of
names to prove a point that not everyone knows all
those names... in fact, I can easily find 20 people whom
I know personally that do not recognize any of those
names.

You're wrong if you say that we don't need to follow
newbie's advice... sometimes, it's the newbies who give
the required reminders. To quote Vince Lombardini to a
professional team of football players... "Gentlemen, this
is a football".

Basics are just as important as advanced stuff.

Again, my $0.02.

Asher

[Randy Bheites]

Originally Posted by russellprisco

Suppose you are a cigarette smoker... Could you tell someone else how to quit? I mean, if you're a smoker... don't you "know" how to quit, even though you haven't done it yourself?

No. You don't "know how to quit" unless you've actually successfully quit smoking. The Mark Twain crack about "quitting smoking is easy, I've done it a thousand times" is bull, that's what makes it humorous.

A smoker since my teens, I stopped smoking many times and always failed, because I was taking advice from people who either did not smoke or had not successfully quit. I've now been smoke-free for over a decade. What got me to the real place was listeng to someone who had actually succeeded in quitting smoking.

Not someone who is a smoker, or thinks they know how to quit. Someone who has actually done it correctly.

That's the whole point here - if you are going to teach success in marketing, first you need to have actually succeeded in marketing.

Otherwise you're just parroting someone else's stuff, and missing crucial information that can only come with having actually succeeded in an endeavor. Which is fine, but don't pretend it's your experience. If you haven't actually "made $100 a day using this method", don't say that.

I could sell information on how to fly a 747 jetliner. Having never done it myself, I'm more than likely going to seriously screw over anyone who takes my advice and tries to fly a jetliner. If I say "this is what people who actually fly 747 jetliners say", that is a far cry from "Learn How To Fly a 747 In One Week, No Plane Necessary!".

That kind of hype is what most marketers use, especially newbie IM marketers selling to other newbie IM marketers. Blind leading the blind, creating a vast wake of desperate people, broken dreams and garbage information being recycled over and over again.

"Fake it 'till you make it" in this kind of context is just irresponsible and damaging to all parties.

[Steven Wagenheim]

News flash...how long you've been at something is in no way an indication of
how good you are at it.

People who have been playing basketball for maybe 10 times longer than
Michael Jordan played even before he got out of high school were probably
a fraction as good as he was at their prime.

A friend of mine who started bowling 10 years after I had begun, was
averaging over 200 in just 2 years.

When I finally quit bowling at age 27 (17 years worth) I never made it beyond
a 175 average.

Newbie shmewbie.

I know plenty of newbies who have 10 times the smarts that I have.

Don't judge a book by its age.

[JohnMcCabe]

Count another body in the 'give newbies a break' camp...

First off, I guess it depends on how the newbie's product is positioned, i.e. "This is the ultimate method" vs. "Here's what I was taught and how I changed it up..."

Veterans in any arena can get set in their ways, doing the same things the same way, because those ways have always worked in the past. Someone new comes in, tries something different, and it works for them. Why not share their new wrinkle, for a profit?

On the other hand, a little experience can be a dangerous thing. My area has a lot of former hotshot real estate investors who confused "expertise" with an overheated market. A lot of those same people are spending their time racing around town putting up hand-made signs offering cheap rentals, lease to own deals, or anything else they can think of to try to save their skins.

Here's my take for the newbies out there reading this...

Don't be afraid to offer a product if you genuinely have something valuable to offer, but keep some humility. You may just be riding a wave that's about to crash onshore.

[mathiasc]

Originally Posted by masterGlen

Please give them a chance, in fact everyone else in here started as a newbie.

gotta agree with masterGlen. Just leave that poor guy alone.

[Randy Bheites]

Originally Posted by ebizman87

I really agree with you. We should always give a person a chance to prove something

Really?

So... you would give a guy who never held a scalpel in his life the chance to prove he could perform an appendectomy on you?

Have I got a WSO for you...

[charlesburke]

Y'know, one of the reasons for all this inbreeding in the IM field may be the sellers, not the newbies.

Even though I'm not in the IM market, I do buy and study the products. And every single time I buy, I start getting urgent emails wanting me to become an affiliate and offer their product to my readers. Now consider the temptation to a newbie who doesn't yet have an established niche or specialty.

The respected marketer that he's just bought a product from says "Go ye forth as my anointed affiliate and offer this to everyone you know," and lo, he goes forth and does his best to share the good news.

So maybe we shouldn't be so fast to blame the newbies. They're just doing what the teacher has suggested. If there's any blame to assign, the teacher should have to take at least a share of it.

Truth is, not a single marketer has ever asked me what my niche is before telling me that their affiliate plan is a perfect fit for me. Are you also doing this to your own buyers?

Just something close to home to consider.

Cheers from warm and smiling Thailand,
Charles

[UKTim29]

I do laugh when I see posts or threads by newbies saying "How Do I Make Money Online?" but they've got a sig saying "Earn $10,000 A month, click Here!!"!!

[Achilles1963]

Oh My Freaking God!!! how obtuse can some people really be, I didn't write the post to pick on newbies, I was trying to make a point about "Get Rich Quick Schemes" that apparently just went over a lot of peoples heads, it reminds me of that old "Missing Persons" song, what are words for if nobody listens at all