Is double opt in always required?

Tyrus Antas

15 years ago

Yes. If ISP's find out you don't have a double opt-in policy they'll start blocking your emails.

Tyrus

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Dana Forsythe

15 years ago

No they shouldn't have too. I believe you just need to add a disclaimer at the bottom of the email that says they're receiving the email because they opted in. Im not totally sure tho..

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dvduval

15 years ago

Originally Posted by mrsforex

No they shouldn't have too. I believe you just need to add a disclaimer at the bottom of the email that says they're receiving the email because they opted in. Im not totally sure tho..

Yes, this is pretty much what I do now, and in addition they do have to validate their email address as well after signing up, so there are about 3 levels to opting in really. Now, my question really is this...

Can I now take my list and send through something like aweber without having to do yet another opt in?

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SullyUI

15 years ago

Anything you import into Aweber will require another opt-in. iContact does not require another opt-in to import leads.

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dvduval

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Sully Chaudry

Anything you import into Aweber will require another opt-in. iContact does not require another opt-in to import leads.

So just to make sure I understand...
They will not receive any emails from me until they reply to aweber saying it is okay to do that (yet another time), correct?

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askloz

15 years ago

if your peeps do not click the link in the email to confirm to be added to your list, then they will not get any future emails from you.

What you could do, is track who has and who hasn't joined to the easier method of sending your members periodic emails, and you're switching due to a ISP issue that limits the amount of emails that get sent per session, so you're using a service like getresponse (recommended)... and keep badgering those who haven't signed up, to join your list...

maybe you could offer them an incentive to re-join your list...

those that don't join, could be a good sign that they dont' receive or even read your emails, narrowing down your list to targeted readers.

Originally Posted by dvduval

So just to make sure I understand...
They will not receive any emails from me until they reply to aweber saying it is okay to do that (yet another time), correct?

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dvduval

15 years ago

Originally Posted by askloz

if your peeps do not click the link in the email to confirm to be added to your list, then they will not get any future emails from you.

What you could do, is track who has and who hasn't joined to the easier method of sending your members periodic emails, and you're switching due to a ISP issue that limits the amount of emails that get sent per session, so you're using a service like getresponse (recommended)... and keep badgering those who haven't signed up, to join your list...

maybe you could offer them an incentive to re-join your list...

those that don't join, could be a good sign that they dont' receive or even read your emails, narrowing down your list to targeted readers.

Ok, makes sense. I have a strong programming team, and we actually have been able to get around the problems related emails per session and ISP, and admins at the data center have even approved of our practices, so I think it make sense for me to keep sending using our own in house service that I might even build onto such as add tracking.

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askloz 15 years ago

Well bro, if you have your own inhouse email service, great, keep that... I presume you have a way to check to see if the emails are actually being delivered and opened yeah?

some hosting companies don't always deliver the emails to certain addy's, like aol, hotmail, etc.

sparkhosting, 1and1 and hostgator and their sister company seems to be ok, godaddy has a problem though getting out to certain email addresses.
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askloz

15 years ago

Actually, it's required otherwise it's just classed as spam.

btw... loaded your link in sig, is that your pic?
grow your hair long again, you look better

Originally Posted by mrsforex

No they shouldn't have too. I believe you just need to add a disclaimer at the bottom of the email that says they're receiving the email because they opted in. Im not totally sure tho..

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fbivens

15 years ago

I will have to disagree with the ones saying to do it, but your call. My experience with a list of over 4500 is that dbl optins cut down on your list building. I know it's supposedly safer, but I have little if any spam complaints...believe that is due to my auto-responders being well written & I really don't saturate my lists with crap.

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Forrest

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dvduval

15 years ago

Originally Posted by askloz

Well bro, if you have your own inhouse email service, great, keep that... I presume you have a way to check to see if the emails are actually being delivered and opened yeah?

some hosting companies don't always deliver the emails to certain addy's, like aol, hotmail, etc.

sparkhosting, 1and1 and hostgator and their sister company seems to be ok, godaddy has a problem though getting out to certain email addresses.

That's great info. Thanks. I have a VPS that is none of these. I will go through and look at some of the undelivered mail and see if I see any patterns with regard to hotmail, etc.

Originally Posted by fbivens

I will have to disagree with the ones saying to do it, but your call. My experience with a list of over 4500 is that dbl optins cut down on your list building. I know it's supposedly safer, but I have little if any spam complaints...believe that is due to my auto-responders being well written & I really don't saturate my lists with crap.

Best,

Forrest

I'll work on my autoresponder to make sure it is also well written, and yes, we have a list MUCH bigger than 4500.

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dave830

15 years ago

by using 1SC, paying customers are automatically double opted in.

I've heard lots of people tell me they found their own custom work-around... and boast of their opt in rates.. if they want to go thru all that work, more power to 'em.

With 1SC it is completely seamless, and 100% of paying customers are added to my AR- I can communicate (and upsell) with them immediately. It's this simplicity and automation that I appreciate.

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Ron569

15 years ago

Email programs are pretty strict, so double opt in's are invariably necessary. It's ultimately designed to help prevent spamming.

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Daniel Molano

15 years ago

I lost a list of 27,000 subscribers for not making it double opt in, it got reported as "spam" eventhough I only shot 1 e-mail per week.

Perhaps I would've only received half of those subscribers if it was double opt in, but entire loss is simply not worth it.

Besides, double opt in also means hotter leads. It's like confirming interest in what you have to offer.

So yes, you want double opt in.

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dvduval

15 years ago

Originally Posted by dave830

by using 1SC, paying customers are automatically double opted in.

I've heard lots of people tell me they found their own custom work-around... and boast of their opt in rates.. if they want to go thru all that work, more power to 'em.

With 1SC it is completely seamless, and 100% of paying customers are added to my AR- I can communicate (and upsell) with them immediately. It's this simplicity and automation that I appreciate.

Not sure I am familiar with this. Where would I find more information?
Do they have to be a buyer of a product, or could they also be a downloader?

Originally Posted by Daniel Molano

I lost a list of 27,000 subscribers for not making it double opt in, it got reported as "spam" eventhough I only shot 1 e-mail per week.

Perhaps I would've only received half of those subscribers if it was double opt in, but entire loss is simply not worth it.

Besides, double opt in also means hotter leads. It's like confirming interest in what you have to offer.

So yes, you want double opt in.

How can you "lose" the list? You didn't save a backup of the addresses?

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Daniel Molano

15 years ago

Originally Posted by dvduval

How can you "lose" the list? You didn't save a backup of the addresses?

I still have the database, I just can't use it. At least not with my name on it.

Believe it or not, you can go to jail for "spamming".

When the autoresponder service cancels the list, it's like a warning.

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webgeek154

15 years ago

Some autoresponder services will require your list to click on a confirmation email to be added to that service and some won't.

Aweber is one that requires it.

Icontact does not require it.

There are some that say they require it but you can call them up and explain to them that your practices and they sometimes will do a one time import of your list and waive the confirmation requirement.

Personally, i would never import a list to a service that requires your subscribers to click on a confirmation link before you can email them. A significant % of your list will not click on the link.

- WebGeek

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dvduval

15 years ago

Originally Posted by webgeek154

Some autoresponder services will require your list to click on a confirmation email to be added to that service and some won't.

Aweber is one that requires it.

Icontact does not require it.

There are some that say they require it but you can call them up and explain to them that your practices and they sometimes will do a one time import of your list and waive the confirmation requirement.

Personally, i would never import a list to a service that requires your subscribers to click on a confirmation link before you can email them. A significant % of your list will not click on the link.

- WebGeek

I am definitely going to try this strategy if I decide to move my list to a provider. To me it only makes sense if they want to attract larger customers.

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LastWarrior

15 years ago

I am under the impression that in order to protect yourself, legally, having a double-optin is good insurance against SPAM complaints.

LastWarrior

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webgeek154

15 years ago

unless your bulk mailing millions of records, i wouldn't worry about the legal aspect. when's the last time you heard about an legitimate internet marketer getting in trouble for spam?

your ISP may block you if you're not following best practices, but the US marshalls won't come knock down your door.

my 2 cents: double optin will suppress the growth of your list significantly

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Jeff Henshaw

15 years ago

unless your bulk mailing millions of records, i wouldn't worry about the legal aspect. when's the last time you heard about an legitimate internet marketer getting in trouble for spam?

your ISP may block you if you're not following best practices, but the US marshalls won't come knock down your door.

my 2 cents: double optin will suppress the growth of your list significantly

That's quite a statement to make. I trust that you speak from experience.

This

unless your bulk mailing millions of records, i wouldn't worry about the legal aspect

is a particularly misleading statement to make, in my opinion. especially if you reside in the USA.

Please post some evidence of your own experiences of mass posting - and do it before you are closed down by your ISP.

Remember - it only takes one SPAM complaint to give you a headache, any more and you are likely to lose your account.

Just my thoughts,
Jeff.

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Jeff Henshaw

15 years ago

Interesting debate. I have multiple lists in different niches with tens of thousands of subscribers. I use to use double Opt In because of all the stuff I would read. I then switched to single opt in at 1sc and never had a problem.

I checked to see if my emails get sent to the main folder in all the major email services, and everything worked just fine.

I don't use double opt in and I haven't had any of the problems people scream about.

That's no doubt true Daniel, if most of your operations are not in the IM niche.

I have never used double optin for anything other than the IM niche and I too have never had a complaint.

I would personally not use single optin in the IM niche - just my own choice.

If most of your endeavours are IM related, then I take back what I have said above. Personally however, until I can afford to employ an office of specialist attornies, I'll still use double opt in for the IM environment.

Just my thoughts.

Regards,
Jeff.

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webgeek154

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Jeff Henshaw

That's quite a statement to make. I trust that you speak from experience.

This is a particularly misleading statement to make, in my opinion. especially if you reside in the USA.

Please post some evidence of your own experiences of mass posting - and do it before you are closed down by your ISP.

I guess that statement could be misleading. it's aimed at the newbies. To clarify, don't be overly paranoid. disclose what you will be using their emial address for at the point of collection. use best practices. don't be misleading/deceptive with your subject lines. have unsubscribe links.

and yes Jeff, i speak from experience of millions of records per day. i know a little bit about the subject : )

- WebGeek
Website Conversion Specialist

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Daniel E Taylor

15 years ago

Interesting debate. I have multiple lists in different niches with tens of thousands of subscribers. I use to use double Opt In because of all the stuff I would read. I then switched to single opt in at 1sc and never had a problem.

I checked to see if my emails get sent to the main folder in all the major email services, and everything worked just fine.

I don't use double opt in and I haven't had any of the problems people scream about.

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MikeGriffith

15 years ago

Double opt-in is best for your own protection against accusations of spamming. Yes, if you enter the names in Aweber, they will require double opt-in.

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Troy_Phillips

15 years ago

An unsub link is all that is required to keep you compliant . A lot of people do not realize that you do not have to offer double opt even with aweber .

When uploading a previous list aweber does require them to opt in again.

There is ways around this also.

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Is double opt in always required?

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