Protecting ourselves from fraudulent buyers

14 replies
it seems to many people that buyers tend to get scammed instead of sellers...on the internet

here's the truth,
we as sellers get scammed as well and it often comes with some additional headaches, like blackmails

my highest record was 3 non authorized payment disputes in 1 day, buyers downloaded the package of ebooks and happily reading without having to pay at the end. Multiple downloads from different ip's were identified, you get the idea
and it's mainly from non verified paypal accounts

I've also had ridiculous dispute
there was once
a buyer said in dispute message...
this is just a plain report on how to set up a blog, where it is available free everywhere
seller is fraudulent, please refund or i will complain everywhere
which is funny to me, as it is not a blogging report

and here's the recent one I had
buyer said...
he tried to contact me but i did not reply him...(i didnt receive email from him and I noticed duplicate IP that used to register to my fantasos system...under another email that has been bugging me for free review copies) and of course, a bunch of wrong accuses added...to make the long story short
if i dont refund him the money, he'd chargeback as fraud and try to get my paypal account banned

to be honest, I'm not worried about getting banned
but it's the justice and none of us would like to see our work being robbed...and being shared around considering this is what these "serial refunders" do

what would you do if you were me and any good insights/recommendations/advices?
#buyers #fraudulent #protecting
  • Profile picture of the author dvduval
    We certainly get our share of fraudulent buyers. In our case we have license numbers associated with our software, as well as other identifying information we receive in registration. We just take each case seriously, and follow them through as far as we can. We have had some good success in either reversing charges back in our favor, or catching people red handed and getting them shut down.
    Signature
    It is okay to contact me! I have been developing software since 1999, creating many popular products like phpLD.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[790649].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author TheRichJerksNet
    I recently had one guy that requested a refund on 3 products that he purchased in the same day from 2 different sites. All 3 products ofcourse are digital downloads. He purchased and then waited 3 weeks to file a complaint with paypal saying they was purchased without his authorization...

    Ok no problem, but somehow the way it was worded and the fact he waits 3 weeks to login his paypal account to see someone else used it got me to thinking.

    So I decided to investigate this paypal user. I took his customer support email, his name, his support url, and went on to research. What I found was he had 2 websites (not mentioned on his paypal account) and both websites was digital product stores, where he sold many digital products for pennies.

    Well for one, none of my products was resell but I decided to search anyways. So I found 2 of my products for sale on his sites. So I responded to paypal gave them all the research and proved he actually had my products and his site was in violation of the law by selling products that have no resell right.

    So paypal dismissed all 3, gave the funds back to myaccount.. I contacted his host proved the products belong to me and I ordered them removed. The host removed the sites and till this day they have not returned. I checked his other customer service website and it no longer takes paypal ...

    So basically sometimes it pays to go and research some of these so called "did not get what I paid for" "I did not buy it" "did not get download" false claims.

    Normally I would ignore and just prove to paypal that they got the products but something about that waiting 3 weeks to report a unauthorized use of his paypal account got to me .. Maybe next time he will learn to lie better.

    James
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[790661].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author mmickey
      Originally Posted by TheRichJerksNet View Post

      I recently had one guy that requested a refund on 3 products that he purchased in the same day from 2 different sites. All 3 products ofcourse are digital downloads. He purchased and then waited 3 weeks to file a complaint with paypal saying they was purchased without his authorization...

      Ok no problem, but somehow the way it was worded and the fact he waits 3 weeks to login his paypal account to see someone else used it got me to thinking.

      So I decided to investigate this paypal user. I took his customer support email, his name, his support url, and went on to research. What I found was he had 2 websites (not mentioned on his paypal account) and both websites was digital product stores, where he sold many digital products for pennies.

      Well for one, none of my products was resell but I decided to search anyways. So I found 2 of my products for sale on his sites. So I responded to paypal gave them all the research and proved he actually had my products and his site was in violation of the law by selling products that have no resell right.

      So paypal dismissed all 3, gave the funds back to myaccount.. I contacted his host proved the products belong to me and I ordered them removed. The host removed the sites and till this day they have not returned. I checked his other customer service website and it no longer takes paypal ...

      So basically sometimes it pays to go and research some of these so called "did not get what I paid for" "I did not buy it" "did not get download" false claims.

      Normally I would ignore and just prove to paypal that they got the products but something about that waiting 3 weeks to report a unauthorized use of his paypal account got to me .. Maybe next time he will learn to lie better.

      James
      how did you get to find that?

      when i got this order...i was wondering who that is...because it is a current paying customers' only sale....

      i've never seen the paypal email address before...yet he could get in my customer list...

      and every time he contacted me, it's from different email

      terrible people
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[791274].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author TheRichJerksNet
        Originally Posted by mmickey View Post

        how did you get to find that?

        when i got this order...i was wondering who that is...because it is a current paying customers' only sale....

        i've never seen the paypal email address before...yet he could get in my customer list...

        and every time he contacted me, it's from different email

        terrible people
        I check the paypal transaction which should give you the email, customer service url, and name... Once you have this go search google and other places such as whois and etc ...

        Yeah some people do use different emails and that can get annoying sometimes.. You can always use paypal advanced history search to search for email, transaction, name and etc if you have a hard time locating a transaction...

        James
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[791279].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author astaga
    Isn't there a place where we can share/post list of IPs or data associated with these folks? Maybe there is that we are not aware of.
    I'm pretty sure many of these "serial refunders" do it because they can get away with it and I doubt that many of them would go to the trouble of being online thru separate multiple IPs.

    Anyone with ideas?
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[790662].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author jon2009
      Maybe it's just a cost of doing business that we've got to factor in
      Signature
      www.gettablegoals.com
      Stop Dreaming - Get Real - Make Money
      How Successful Internet marketers Make Decisions
      http://www.gettablegoals.com/
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[790668].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author nick1123
        Originally Posted by jon2009 View Post

        Maybe it's just a cost of doing business that we've got to factor in
        I really think you're on to something here.

        Every business that sells products has to deal with theft in some form or another.

        Other certain precautions you can take to lower the chances of having people steal from you but at some point you have to just let it go.

        If 5% of my buyers end up not paying me I have two options:

        Option one is to do everything in my power to go after the buyer and spend all my efforts and energy on this endeavor.

        Option two is to spend that time and energy and effort on creating more products and selling more goods and services which in the end will make me a lot more money.

        It may be difficult emotionally but it is far better choose option two.
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[790770].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author jon2009
          Right on
          This is another reason to sell infoproducts.
          You don't lose anything.





          Originally Posted by nick1123 View Post

          I really think you're on to something here.

          Every business that sells products has to deal with theft in some form or another.

          Other certain precautions you can take to lower the chances of having people steal from you but at some point you have to just let it go.

          If 5% of my buyers end up not paying me I have two options:

          Option one is to do everything in my power to go after the buyer and spend all my efforts and energy on this endeavor.

          Option two is to spend that time and energy and effort on creating more products and selling more goods and services which in the end will make me a lot more money.

          It may be difficult emotionally but it is far better choose option two.
          Signature
          www.gettablegoals.com
          Stop Dreaming - Get Real - Make Money
          How Successful Internet marketers Make Decisions
          http://www.gettablegoals.com/
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[790846].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author radhika
            Signature
            Follow up Autoresponder PRO :: 33% Discount!!
            FREE Upgrades! IMPROVED Email Deliverability!!
            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[790853].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author TheRichJerksNet
            Originally Posted by jon2009 View Post

            Right on
            This is another reason to sell infoproducts.
            You don't lose anything.
            Jon,
            Keep in mind the following though....

            * some pay for product creation
            * some pay for graphic design
            * somepay for sales copy
            * some pay for articles related to their products
            * some pay for website development
            * some pay for website design
            * some pay fees for members downloads
            * Paypal "ChargeBacks" cost the seller $30 a pop

            Many times there is a cost involved, I would not say you don't lose anything because if you need to invest money in the above then it does cost you....

            With that said though I would spend my energy and time on creating more products vs trying to go after every little scammer...

            James
            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[790922].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author stevenh512
      Originally Posted by astaga View Post

      I doubt that many of them would go to the trouble of being online thru separate multiple IPs.
      Actually most people have dynamic IPs for their "home" internet connections. If you're on cable or DSL (depending on your ISP) your IP might not change for a long time, sometimes weeks or months, but it's still dynamic unless you're paying extra for a static IP and it could change any time the "lease" is up or any time your connection gets reset for any reason.
      Signature

      This signature intentionally left blank.

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[791706].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author artwebster
    When you see email subject lines like "Legally steal . . . ." or "Get any eBook totally free!" you have to wonder what is being taught by some marketers.

    About three years ago I was presented with a 'proven' method of not having to pay for digital products and it was nothing but a list of 'acceptable' reasons for refund requests to Paypal and a shorter one for Clickbank (because Clickbank seldom refuse to refund).

    No doubt this is still out there and still being distributed.
    Signature

    You might not like what I say - but I believe it.
    Build it, make money, then build some more
    Some old school smarts would help - and here's to Rob Toth for his help. Bloody good stuff, even the freebies!

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[790909].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author jon2009
      I do wonder what kind of product and support you'd get fom a vendor who advertises how to steal from people.
      A bit like Attila the Hun offering lessons in discipline.



      Originally Posted by artwebster View Post

      When you see email subject lines like "Legally steal . . . ." or "Get any eBook totally free!" you have to wonder what is being taught by some marketers.

      About three years ago I was presented with a 'proven' method of not having to pay for digital products and it was nothing but a list of 'acceptable' reasons for refund requests to Paypal and a shorter one for Clickbank (because Clickbank seldom refuse to refund).

      No doubt this is still out there and still being distributed.
      Signature
      www.gettablegoals.com
      Stop Dreaming - Get Real - Make Money
      How Successful Internet marketers Make Decisions
      http://www.gettablegoals.com/
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[790923].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Revolves
    I actually read a partial solution to this somewhere, by a marketer. Even though you can't really avoid "first time scammers", i.e. people who you're dealing for the first time, but you can block subsequent orders from them.

    The idea is to blacklist their payment information, name, credit cards etc. Since I don't remember the source of this idea, I don't know exactly how you'd go about doing this.

    Anyone has any idea?
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[791727].message }}

Trending Topics