The What and the Why, not the How To for Offline...

by BlueStar Banned
39 replies
Ok, I've received PMs in regards to Offline marketing so I'd like to answer a few questions before my mailbox explodes.

When I approach Biz owners I talk about Marketing first, NOT the Internet. People perceive ME as a Marketing professional not an Internet guy. I do not want to be known as their website guy, or the guy who handles their autoresponder, etc........ these are Commodities that can be shopped. You don't want that, they will go to CL.

Do NOT go in talking about building Websites, Blogs, Autoresponders, etc.. this is a Commodity. You must Position yourself as a Professional marketer.

I want these biz owners to tell other biz owners that I am damn good at Marketing and how their sales and revenue increased since using my services.

I tell biz owners the What and the Why, not How to.

I tell them Why they need to build a List, What it will do for them, etc...
  • Building a list will keep them more connected to their customers (TOPA) Top of Mind Awareness
  • Building a list will lower their overall marketing cost
  • Building a list will help with Customer Retention
  • Building a list will Increase their Sales and Revenue
  • etc............
I do not tell them to go to AWeber or something along those lines. I tell them I have software that can do this for them, similar to an Email blast.

I tell them the What and the Why to having a Blog.

I tell them the What and the Why to having a Website.

I tell them the What and the Why to SEO/PPC.

I tell them the What and the Why to Direct mail.

The next question they will ask is "Do you do that?"

As a matter of fact I do.

Do not educate these Prospects on anything except the What and the Why. If they want more info get out their Checkbook.
#offline
  • Profile picture of the author dvduval
    I generally let them know that I bill on an hourly basis, and then it becomes their option if they want to proceed with the work. If anything I make them tell me what they want, and then I tell them what it will cost. Customers often know a more about what they want once you get them talking. And when they tell you, you are a lot closer to the sale.
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    • Profile picture of the author MarkR
      BlueStar,

      Excellent points. I agree wholeheartedly.

      For many years in the offline world, I've seen three things happen when you share the "how to" - 1) customers get confused and don't make a decision, 2) customers somewhat understand and shop you're "how to" plan a for a lower price, and 3) they buy from you because they don't feel they have any other options.

      If you can convert some of the type#1 and type#2 people to buy your service, by not confusing them, and not giving them enough to shop your services, you're that much ahead of the game. My services contracts have gone from 25-30 page "here's what and how I'll do it" behemoths, to 4-6 page "here's what I'll provide and here's why you should do this" contracts. I get a much better close rate now!

      Mark
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  • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
    BlueStar, I like the way you think.

    I do part with you on one thing, though. I don't talk about lowering costs. That's what everybody talks about.

    I talk about how I can get them to double or triple their ad spend and love me for it.

    It's the old riddle about "if you could send out a dollar and know it would bring back two or three more dollars with it when it came back, how many dollars would you send out?"

    You can't cut costs down past zero, but increasing revenue, profits and ROI have no ceiling - and that's exciting...
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    • Profile picture of the author BlueStar
      Banned
      Originally Posted by JohnMcCabe View Post

      BlueStar, I like the way you think.

      I do part with you on one thing, though. I don't talk about lowering costs. That's what everybody talks about.
      Thanks. I start out telling them that I can Possibly lower their marketing cost while increasing their sales and revenue and getting them more Exposure. I want to initially get their attention but I divert lowering cost immediately.

      Then I educate them about Return on Investment

      I'm very intense when it comes to NOT having a Budget. I get my prospects off Budget lingo immediately. Any media that gives you a 1-1 ROI is a no-brainer and I can show them how to make a fortune even with less than a 1-1 ROI. This always get's their attention. After I show them my concepts they always say "I never looked at business that way." It's more based upon Wall St philosophy which is were I am from.

      If you can get across that for every $20 they place into an ATM machine they'll get back a $100, they quit asking questions.

      I have never lowered a clients Budget. In most cases it Quadruples. The goal is to spend 1 Million per day, isn't it?

      That's why I focus on Marketing and NOT internet talk. It doesn't make any difference to them if they get a return on Print media, TV commercials, radio, postcards, Internet, etc... just make sure you increase their profits.

      I get ALL their marketing, not just the Online business.

      I get them Hooked, I wow them. My clients have never had someone explain marketing to them before. Every person that ever walked into their business was always SELLING a product (website, blog, auto responder, postcards, radio spots, cable tv spots, billboard advertising, yellow pages, etc...) more of a Pick and Choose and Hope & Pray it works. Nothing is integrated, connected, it's all just a bunch of product with different vendors, sales reps and separate billing.
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      • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
        We're in sync, then.

        For those new to the game, you can't ignore costs completely. One of the side effects of applying direct response methods and actually measuring results is that costs do go down as you eliminate things that aren't working. Then you can apply the savings to what is working.
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  • Profile picture of the author Maria Gudelis
    Welcome to the Warrior Forum BlueStar...ROI is the name of the game and nice to see your education here for all of us!

    It's all the clients care about as well - what is my Return on Investment...and we're building also long-term virtual assets for them as well - bring on the education BlueStar!
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    • Profile picture of the author AndrewCavanagh
      Interesting and it shows there are MANY ways you can talk to business owners and get hired.

      The bottom line is clearly going and talking to business owners.

      I don't say ANYTHING along the lines you're talking about here.

      When I talk to a business owner I'm asking questions.

      How did they get started in the business?

      Where are most of your sales coming from now?

      What product or service are you selling the most of?

      What kind of net profit do you have on that?

      What's your highest net profit line?

      Do you sell much of that?

      Can you offer it as an upsell to better selling lines?

      Where exactly are your current customers coming from?

      Do you have advertising that's working for you?


      What do you really want out of your business? (The answers to that question and questions along those lines will surprise you).


      Only AFTER I've gathered that kind of information and built some rapport do I start suggesting ideas.

      And yes I will use quite simple non-technical language and when I suggest an idea it's never "you can do this" it's "I'll get this done for you" and these are the potential results you could see from implementing this.

      The solutions I offer are nearly always hands off...I do the work for them...so I'm not trying to explain what I do...just the power of what I do and the potential benefits to them.


      That's how I do it...my conversion from sitting down with a business owner to getting hired is exceptionally high and the number of referrals I get from the business owners who hire me and those who don't hire me is also exceptionally high.

      I don't talk a whole lot...I spend most of my time in the first face to face meeting asking intelligent questions and listening.

      Intelligent questions position you as an expert.

      But as I said at the start of this post there are many, many ways of talking to business owners.

      The most important thing is that you get off you arse and go talk to some people...that's how you get hired.

      Kindest regards,
      Andrew Cavanagh
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    • Profile picture of the author BlueStar
      Banned
      Originally Posted by Maria Gudelis View Post

      Welcome to the Warrior Forum BlueStar...ROI is the name of the game and nice to see your education here for all of us!

      It's all the clients care about as well - what is my Return on Investment...and we're building also long-term virtual assets for them as well - bring on the education BlueStar!

      Hi Maria,

      I'm actually a member of your group. In fact I'll be listening to your call today at 10am Pacific and tonight, looking forward to it.

      I can definitely recommend that anyone new to Offline join your group. I use different methods but I've been around the block about 100x.

      People can definitely get a fast start using your system, enough to get them hooked, they can develop their own style later.

      Can you Bottle your perky enthusiasm and sell it as a WSO?
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      • Profile picture of the author Maria Gudelis
        Originally Posted by BlueStar View Post

        Hi Maria,

        I'm actually a member of your group. In fact I'll be listening to your call today at 10am Pacific and tonight, looking forward to it.

        I can definitely recommend that anyone new to Offline join your group. I use different methods but I've been around the block about 100x.

        People can definitely get a fast start using your system, enough to get them hooked, they can develop their own style later.

        Can you Bottle your perky enthusiasm and sell it as a WSO?
        Wish I could Bottle the perky enthusiasm! And the fire to get people to face their fear to talk to business owners...I called '4 unsuspecting' challenge participants last night...some have not called ANY business owners yet because they think they need a website up first, or have credibility of other sites up....drowning in the details...this or that first before talking to someone...!

        would love to get you on one of the calls - would you be interested?

        Cheers, M
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        • Profile picture of the author BlueStar
          Banned
          Originally Posted by Maria Gudelis View Post

          Wish I could Bottle the perky enthusiasm! And the fire to get people to face their fear to talk to business owners...I called '4 unsuspecting' challenge participants last night...some have not called ANY business owners yet because they think they need a website up first, or have credibility of other sites up....drowning in the details...this or that first before talking to someone...!

          would love to get you on one of the calls - would you be interested?

          Cheers, M
          I think people FEAR business owners because they "THINK" biz owners know a lot about Marketing. NOT!

          I have never known a biz owner who knew Squat. They thought they did, but I always correct them, Can't bring a knife to a gunfight.

          Maybe they should go in Fact Finding not Selling their product and gather info (gee, like we do)

          I think most are probably trying to Sell their services immediately. I have a sequenced approach before any talk about sites, seo, video, etc...

          I may take you up on your teleseminar but I need to remain anonymous, maybe you can call me Mr X
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        • Profile picture of the author Bennette
          Wish I could Bottle the perky enthusiasm! And the fire to get people to face their fear to talk to business owners...I called '4 unsuspecting' challenge participants last night...some have not called ANY business owners yet because they think they need a website up first, or have credibility of other sites up....drowning in the details...this or that first before talking to someone...!
          @ Maria,
          I brought your "Kick A$$ Offline Consulting last week and your Mind Map on Sun. I went out today and talked with business owners and I don't have cards, my website, autoresponder or twitter yet. Only made it to 20 businesses today but I believe my 1st deal is waiting for me.

          @BlueStar
          I took your advice and walk right in to a Chamber today and meet with a lady and proposed the $97 90min presentation with 50% to them and 50% to charity and she said "wow that's a great idea, no one has every offered us money before. She also goes on to say that they never had anyone speak on the topic before. She was also going to send an email today to the person to get me an appointment with the person that does the scheduling. I also got invited to the meet n greet this evening (actually I'm just getting in from it now) and she is going to put in touch with the lady at the local college that is over the program for small businesses.

          I forgot to mention when I went to the mixer that I used zip lock bags stuffed with shredded paper and stuck a post it on the inside that said, "Is your marketing yielding you results like this?" Call Me! And my contact info. (Thanks Warrior for the ziplock bag tip, I'm sorry I can't remember his name).

          I don't have a sale yet, but I know it's coming.

          P.S. Maria you can call me because I welcome your support. I want to join the challenge if it's not to late because I can still take advantage of the info.
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          • Profile picture of the author BlueStar
            Banned
            Originally Posted by Bennette View Post

            @BlueStar
            I took your advice and walk right in to a Chamber today and meet with a lady and proposed the $97 90min presentation with 50% to them and 50% to charity and she said "wow that's a great idea, no one has every offered us money before. She also goes on to say that they never had anyone speak on the topic before. She was also going to send an email today to the person to get me an appointment with the person that does the scheduling. I also got invited to the meet n greet this evening (actually I'm just getting in from it now) and she is going to put in touch with the lady at the local college that is over the program for small businesses.
            I'm glad it worked out for you. The very 1st one I did we had over 100 biz owners. Way too many, I now limit it to 50. We raised over $10,000. I had pics taken at the beginning of the seminar with me giving 2 checks for $5,000 to each organization. It was great PR and the audience saw that the profits went straight to the charities.

            I had 40 of the members personally hand me thier business card after the meeting. I did so much business that I never had a chance to call all of them (rolleyes).

            If you want I have a word doc file that outlines the entire seminar pre and post sale. Send me a PM if you would like a copy. It's very thorough and well thought out.
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            • Profile picture of the author Bennette
              I had 40 of the members personally hand me thier business card after the meeting. I did so much business that I never had a chance to call all of them (rolleyes).
              I am looking forward to that day.

              If you want I have a word doc file that outlines the entire seminar pre and post sale. Send me a PM if you would like a copy. It's very thorough and well thought out.
              I would love a copy. I can't PM you because I don't have enough posts yet.

              I also think I need to tweak what I say when I cold call businesses.

              I say, I just wanted to introduce myself and state my name, then I say, I work with businesses to help them get more customers by using creative internet ideas. What do you think?
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            • Profile picture of the author Bennette
              If you want I have a word doc file that outlines the entire seminar pre and post sale. Send me a PM if you would like a copy. It's very thorough and well thought out.
              I sent you a PM did you get it?

              I enjoy reading your posts and you sharing your insights and experience.

              I can tell you this, with your negative mindset you will never get the big money. Ever look a client in the eye, tell him the Setup fee is $40,000 and $4k month for ongoing marketing? My cost $2,000 for setup and $500 month maint.
              Try it, you might like it.
              I agree!
              To be successful you have to be confident in yourself and your abilities. If you don't see value in your skills and knowledge, how do expect someone else too?

              If you think you can't...you won't.

              We have to train our mind to say we can ______ or I will do _____.

              Writing an affirmation starting with I will______ or I can_____ and saying it 10 times each day will train your mind to think and act differently (positive thinking is powerful).

              Just my .02
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            • Profile picture of the author redsymbol
              Hi BlueStar,

              If you want I have a word doc file that outlines the entire seminar pre and post sale. Send me a PM if you would like a copy. It's very thorough and well thought out.
              Would you please share your outline with me, also? I think you can PM me easily. If not, you can find my contact information at the website redsymbol.net .

              Thanks, I appreciate it. In fact, if there is a charity you favor that takes donations online, please let me know and I'll give them a small donation to show my thanks for this outline!

              Cheers,
              Aaron

              PS. Sorry I'm not able to PM you like you asked, I am a newish member and have not posted enough yet for WF to allow me to do that.
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            • Profile picture of the author JodyRossDeane
              Originally Posted by BlueStar View Post

              I'm glad it worked out for you. The very 1st one I did we had over 100 biz owners. Way too many, I now limit it to 50. We raised over $10,000. I had pics taken at the beginning of the seminar with me giving 2 checks for $5,000 to each organization. It was great PR and the audience saw that the profits went straight to the charities.

              I had 40 of the members personally hand me thier business card after the meeting. I did so much business that I never had a chance to call all of them (rolleyes).

              If you want I have a word doc file that outlines the entire seminar pre and post sale. Send me a PM if you would like a copy. It's very thorough and well thought out.
              HI
              I would love a copy of that doc too, but can't PM you as i haven't posted enough comments as I am a newbie.
              Love you insights.

              Kind regards
              Jody
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  • Profile picture of the author Shane Watson
    Nice details, it is like very straight forward and need to know basis for the targeted purpose only. Our emphasis should only on the subjects that is material.
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  • Profile picture of the author artwebster
    If you can get across that for every $20 they place into an ATM machine they'll get back a $100, they quit asking questions.

    But what do you say when they point out that the $20 they are paying you represents $400 of gross takings if they are showing a botom line of 5%? Makes that extra $100 look more like a $300 deficit to me.
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    You might not like what I say - but I believe it.
    Build it, make money, then build some more
    Some old school smarts would help - and here's to Rob Toth for his help. Bloody good stuff, even the freebies!

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    • Profile picture of the author BlueStar
      Banned
      Originally Posted by artwebster View Post

      If you can get across that for every $20 they place into an ATM machine they'll get back a $100, they quit asking questions.

      But what do you say when they point out that the $20 they are paying you represents $400 of gross takings if they are showing a botom line of 5%? Makes that extra $100 look more like a $300 deficit to me.
      First of all, I target businesses with High Gross profits. I work with the big dogs who spend big money on a monthly basis, 5k, 10k, 20, 50k, a month.

      I have NEVER not worked with a business whereby I didn't lower their overall marketing budget and increase their sales. I stay away from low profit mom and pop type of businesses. What really happens is 3 months into my marketing they want to Increase their budget because they see real Returns on their investment. I teach them from Day 1 our goal is to spend 1 Million per day+ on Marketing, have to mentally prepare them for bigger goals. This would be a nice situation to be in, wouldn't it Mr Business owner?

      The bigger the Cash Register the Bigger my check.

      However, something very important that I teach business owners UPfront.

      I show them how we can LOSE money with our marketing campaign and still build our list, grow our Yearly sales, and build Equity in our business by Losing money the 1st time we sell that customer a Product or a Service.

      It has to do with Customer Retention, working the customer for repeat sales and referrals. This is the key to many successful companies. The initial sale loses money but longer term they make a killing. Very similar to $1 for the first months membership, then $47 month continuity program, etc...

      I never lose money on the 1st customer anyways, it's strictly hypothetical.

      Remember, I'm a marketing guy, not internet website builder, seo guy, etc...
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      • Profile picture of the author Bennette
        Knowledge is power, but applied knowledge is priceless.
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        • Profile picture of the author BrashImpact
          Bluestar,

          Want to welcome you to the warrior forum. Obviously you have
          been around the block 100x plus. It's always great as we share
          new ideas and learn from each other.

          By the way, welcome to the 14 day power challenge. It's great
          to see people in the challenge from all experience levels.

          Looking forward to more insights, and thought process's.

          Excellent post.. Thanks for sharing.
          Regards,
          Robert Nelson
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          • Profile picture of the author BlueStar
            Banned
            Originally Posted by RobertNelsoninc View Post

            Bluestar,

            Want to welcome you to the warrior forum. Obviously you have
            been around the block 100x plus. It's always great as we share
            new ideas and learn from each other.

            By the way, welcome to the 14 day power challenge. It's great
            to see people in the challenge from all experience levels.

            Looking forward to more insights, and thought process's.

            Excellent post.. Thanks for sharing.
            Regards,
            Robert Nelson
            Thanks Robert. Your group coaching program is so Undervalued, you're giving it away. Better be a Big Backend ;-)

            I'm not sure if new members realize how good the information is . This morning with David Preston was excellent. I think Dave uses some Bob Serling type of ideas. I'm thinking about Licensing my ideas and process to my customers. This adds more "Perceived" value to the customer, makes me stand out, and it locks me in for a long period of time. If the customer cancels my agreement (18 months) then he can NO longer use my Intellectual Property Rights. I'm currently looking into this and may contact Bob Serling. I'm not sure if it will hold up in court, but the perception to the client is GInormous.

            David and I seem to come from the same cloth, were both about the same age so maybe that explains it. I'm Old School and have owned several Brick & Mortar businesses with Employees, Rent, Trucks, massive overhead, benefits, taxes, etc... so I can relate to the day to day problems that biz owners deal with. There's not much I can't relate to. Many times I help them with problems that have Nothing to do with marketing whatsoever.

            If I know for whatever reason I can't help them, I will tell them. Not all businesses can use my services. For instance, I would NOT want to work with car dealers right now because Capital is not available. No sense getting traffic to their site and the buyers don't qualify. I recently had a home builder approach me and I told him that in reality I didn't think he could use my services to the fullest extent that I offer. I gave him a few ideas to prepare for the future, but not today.

            I can definitely recommend Workshops for anyone who can hold an audiences attention. 10 minutes into my seminars everyone in the room knows who the Boss is, NO BS here, just straight talk. I'm very gruff, like you

            My biggest problem with seminars is the fact that I cant follow up with everyone, too much work in a very short period of time. My first workshop I had over 100 biz owners present at $97 each, gave 100% of the proceeds to charity. I received 40 new customers in 48 hours. I never got back to about 32 of them. Maybe that's why my ears are still ringing?
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            • Profile picture of the author Bennette
              My biggest problem with seminars is the fact that I cant follow up with everyone, too much work in a very short period of time. My first workshop I had over 100 biz owners present at $97 each, gave 100% of the proceeds to charity. I received 38 new customers in 48 hours. I never got back to about 32 of them. Maybe that's why my ears are still ringing?
              That's definitely a good position to be in. I can't wait to be in that situation. Having more business than you can handle is always a better problem then, prospecting and wondering when the phone will start ringing.
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            • Profile picture of the author BrashImpact
              Originally Posted by BlueStar View Post

              Thanks Robert. Your group coaching program is so Undervalued, you're giving it away. Better be a Big Backend ;-)

              I'm not sure if new members realize how good the information is . This morning with David Preston was excellent. I think Dave uses some Bob Serling type of ideas. I'm thinking about Licensing my ideas and process to my customers. This adds more "Perceived" value to the customer, makes me stand out, and it locks me in for a long period of time. If the customer cancels my agreement (18 months) then he can NO longer use my Intellectual Property Rights. I'm currently looking into this and may contact Bob Serling. I'm not sure if it will hold up in court, but the perception to the client is GInormous.

              David and I seem to come from the same cloth, were both about the same age so maybe that explains it. I'm Old School and have owned several Brick & Mortar businesses with Employees, Rent, Trucks, massive overhead, benefits, taxes, etc... so I can relate to the day to day problems that biz owners deal with. There's not much I can't relate to. Many times I help them with problems that have Nothing to do with marketing whatsoever.

              If I know for whatever reason I can't help them, I will tell them. Not all businesses can use my services. For instance, I would NOT want to work with car dealers right now because Capital is not available. No sense getting traffic to their site and the buyers don't qualify. I recently had a home builder approach me and I told him that in reality I didn't think he could use my services to the fullest extent that I offer. I gave him a few ideas to prepare for the future, but not today.

              I can definitely recommend Workshops for anyone who can hold an audiences attention. 10 minutes into my seminars everyone in the room knows who the Boss is, NO BS here, just straight talk. I'm very gruff, like you

              My biggest problem with seminars is the fact that I cant follow up with everyone, too much work in a very short period of time. My first workshop I had over 100 biz owners present at $97 each, gave 100% of the proceeds to charity. I received 40 new customers in 48 hours. I never got back to about 32 of them. Maybe that's why my ears are still ringing?
              Blusestar,
              thanks for the kind words...lol no monster backend to the challenge. However, the stories are coming in, and more importantly, we are helping the economy and charity.

              You hit the nail on the head, Follow up is the most difficult to do from a workshop platform, however i do believe Maria and i have that one licked now.. Feel free to Pm me if you like, might be good too discuss some different strategies.

              Great point, i turn business away as well, that i know is not going benefit at this time for our services. I am dying here, been approached by the same big car dealer here 3 times, and i keep telling them, Bad Timing, when the time is right, i will contact you and let you know. I definately feel in the long run, being up front like that and not so concerned about the dollar makes for bigger paydays down the road. Thats such a hard thing to teach to people in general. Most don't get it.

              Hmmm... interesting concept on the lincensing platform. I would be curious to see
              how well that would or wouldnt hold up in a courtroom situation. Its tough leading
              the way for others, and trying to stay on the cutting edge with first mover advantage.

              Gruff... ummmm... who me Gruff, never... Just transparently Direct, we are way to busy to conduct business any other way lol. But you hit that one pretty dam close, i get called gruff quite a bit, and i am like WTH, apparently you do not place nearly as much value on your time as i place on mine. Sometimes the people get in and sometimes not, its still very much the Wild Wild West out there right now with offline consulting. So we just do what we can do, and try to be ambassadors to the model as much as possible.

              Look forward to talking to you.. Hope this finds you having an incredible
              Memorial day weekend. Just found out Late friday that monday was
              a holiday. They all run together.
              Talk soon
              Regards,
              Robert
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      • Profile picture of the author InfoAcademy
        Originally Posted by BlueStar View Post

        First of all, I target businesses with High Gross profits. I work with the big dogs who spend big money on a monthly basis, 5k, 10k, 20, 50k, a month.
        Would you mind sharing what types of businesses these are? Thanks!
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      • Profile picture of the author chrisnegro
        Originally Posted by BlueStar View Post


        It has to do with Customer Retention, working the customer for repeat sales and referrals. This is the key to many successful companies. The initial sale loses money but longer term they make a killing. Very similar to $1 for the first months membership, then $47 month continuity program, etc....
        BlueStar:

        Would you mind breaking this down further. I'm sure you give the person an imagery picture that they can see it very clearly. In fact...if you have something written down I would love to see this.

        Cheers,

        Chris Negro
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    • Profile picture of the author AndrewCavanagh
      Originally Posted by artwebster View Post

      If you can get across that for every $20 they place into an ATM machine they'll get back a $100, they quit asking questions.

      But what do you say when they point out that the $20 they are paying you represents $400 of gross takings if they are showing a botom line of 5%? Makes that extra $100 look more like a $300 deficit to me.


      If you haven't made a business a profit you shouldn't be boasting about it or even talking about it at all.

      What you should be doing is doing more work to ensure they do make a profit over your fees.

      Many businesses make a bottom line WAAAAY bigger than 5%...especially if their business is already making a modest profit when you start working with them.

      For example imagine you're working with a restaurant that's already covering costs like rent, wages etc.

      If you help that restaurant make an extra $300 in turnover most restaurants food costs run at around 33%.

      So you've just made them an extra $200 or so in profit because they were already covering costs.



      If you have some brains one of the FIRST two things you ask a business owner are:

      # 1: Where is most of your turnover coming from (what products or services are you selling the most of)?

      # 2: What product or service has your highest net profit?


      Then you start asking questions about why people aren't buying the product with the high net profit, whether you can offer it as an upsell, what people do like about that product etc etc etc.

      You need to be smart enough to focus on creating real profits for a business and that requires thinking through the easiest way to make those profits.

      In many cases it can be as simple as educating existing clients on why they should buy a premium product or service or a different product or service that carries a higher net profit for the business.

      Or upselling that product or service at point of sale.




      Put another way...the numbers can be your best friend or your worst enemy.

      In your scenario you've made a low net profit for a business your enemy by not looking past that to see simple ways you can increase that net profit.


      One final point.

      If you start asking questions like the ones I suggest above and start brainstorming ways to increase the sales of high net profit lines...

      The business owner will not pause for a second to ask you about your expertise or your previous experience.

      The questions and the line of your thinking will brand you as a marketing genius.

      Nearly all business owners can do basic maths...especially when it comes to making profits.

      Kindest regards,
      Andrew Cavanagh
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  • Profile picture of the author charlesburke
    Any newbies reading this thread should pay very, very close attention. This is the difference in mindset between an amateur and a professional.

    But I can already hear the chorus of "I'm not really into..." or "I can't do...." or "Isn't there an easier..."

    But of course those are all evasions and excuses.

    So how DO you stop being a newbie and become a seasoned professional? Truthfully, the only way I know of is a combination of training and experience. Take the training to learn all you can ABOUT turning prospects into customers, and then go out and practice doing it till the unfamiliar becomes easy and effortless. Time, effort, discipline and dedication.

    Anybody else know of a royal road to professionalism?

    Cheers from warm and smiling Tailand,
    Charles
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  • Profile picture of the author artwebster
    First of all, I target businesses with High Gross profits. I work with the big dogs who spend big money on a monthly basis, 5k, 10k, 20, 50k, a month.

    High gross profits mean nothing if all you are going to do is slash the bottom line by massive over spends on marketing.

    The bottom line returns are generally 5% or less which means that your $1,000,000 per day marketing costs will have to generate at least $20,000,000 per day in additional gross revenue if the company is simply to maintain itself in the current situation.
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    • Profile picture of the author BlueStar
      Banned
      Originally Posted by artwebster View Post

      First of all, I target businesses with High Gross profits. I work with the big dogs who spend big money on a monthly basis, 5k, 10k, 20, 50k, a month.

      High gross profits mean nothing if all you are going to do is slash the bottom line by massive over spends on marketing.

      The bottom line returns are generally 5% or less which means that your $1,000,000 per day marketing costs will have to generate at least $20,000,000 per day in additional gross revenue if the company is simply to maintain itself in the current situation.

      Apparently you are not reading my post or you don't comprehend what I said.

      I work with businesses with very high NET profits, people with budgets typically 10k - 40k per month. As I stated before, I do total comprehensive marketing, not just IM. By integrating offline and online marketing I get very high returns. We track all media, different websites, different phone numbers, analytics, etc.. this isn't a guess!

      Why do you assume all businesses make 5% or less net? Just because you think we are in a recession, bad economy, etc.. doesn't mean my clients have to participate. We choose to ignore it, gain market share and Dominate the competition.

      Maybe that's what separates the Men from the Boys!
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  • Profile picture of the author artwebster
    I can see that there is much confusion here about what the bottom line is and where the gross line lies.

    I have not seen many businesses that have made waaay more than 5% bottom line unless they were one man bands operating on an intellectual rather than a physical level (ie having no capital assets to purchase and depreciate, having no business premises charges to accommodate, having no local taxes to pay, having no stock in trade or materials to purchase, no repairs and renewals etc. etc.)

    Many FMCG outlets make much less than 5% - relying on high turnover to make the bottom line higher than survival level.
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    Build it, make money, then build some more
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    • Profile picture of the author BlueStar
      Banned
      Originally Posted by artwebster View Post

      I can see that there is much confusion here about what the bottom line is and where the gross line lies.

      I have not seen many businesses that have made waaay more than 5% bottom line unless they were one man bands operating on an intellectual rather than a physical level (ie having no capital assets to purchase and depreciate, having no business premises charges to accommodate, having no local taxes to pay, having no stock in trade or materials to purchase, no repairs and renewals etc. etc.)

      Many FMCG outlets make much less than 5% - relying on high turnover to make the bottom line higher than survival level.

      Ever hear of Microsoft, Dell, Apple, etc... for YEARS they operated with 25% plus NET profits, even today that have huge profits.

      I'm not sure about Spain, but here in the US many businesses operate at Net profits of 20% or more. And these businesses are in very simple industries, like the service industry.

      I worked with mortgage brokers who had NET, NET, NET profits of 30% plus from 1999-2005. Money was abundant.

      As of today we are not yet a Socialist country, there are still plenty of companies in the right niches that are thriving and hiring.

      I've been doing this so-called Offline marketing for a long, long time. Back in the 80's we didn't call it Offline because their was no such thing as ONLINE

      My first and only priority is to make sure that my clients make money. If they are not growing then I'm gone. It's that simple.

      My monthly fees continue infinitum because I work with my clients and make sure we continue to grow the business. That's why I have monthly coaching calls via teleseminar. I need to keep people on track.

      I can tell you this, with your negative mindset you will never get the big money. Ever look a client in the eye, tell him the Setup fee is $40,000 and $4k month for ongoing marketing? My cost $2,000 for setup and $500 month maint.

      Try it, you might like it.
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  • Profile picture of the author artwebster
    Ever hear of Microsoft, Dell, Apple, etc... for YEARS they operated with 25% plus NET profits, even today that have huge profits.

    I'm not sure about Spain, but here in the US many businesses operate at Net profits of 20% or more. And these businesses are in very simple industries, like the service industry.

    I worked with mortgage brokers who had NET, NET, NET profits of 30% plus from 1999-2005. Money was abundant.


    Now go back and read my post again and you will see that I specifically excluded this type of company.

    Even so, look at the reports of these companies and you will see the bottom line reflects much less than the net profit.
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    Build it, make money, then build some more
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    • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
      There's a funny thing about bottom lines - they can be manipulated for a wide variety of reasons having nothing to do with marketing. In the USA, tax planning is a big one.

      Smart businesses, like smart individuals, arrange their affairs to minimize the tax bite. So "the bottom line" may not reflect the actual profitability of a business.

      Less informed businesses, who do not arrange their business with at least some consideration for the tax man, pay more taxes. This also suppresses the bottom line.

      If memory serves, humorist Art Buchwald had a legal battle with a movie producer over royalties. Buchwald was supposed to be paid a percentage of the net profits from the film. The film made several million dollars, the producer and stars of the film made millions, and Buchwald got little or nothing. Why? In the final accounting, there were no net profits.

      That's why the smart cookies in Hollywood demand a percentage of the gross...

      That's why a business could be showing net profits of 20-30%, yet their (taxable) bottom line shows 5%...
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  • Profile picture of the author artwebster
    The bottom line reflects a current or ultimate year situation and cannot be used effectively for tax avoidance. Once again the example given is one I specifically excluded ..

    In the entertainment industry a portion of the gross is taken because it makes more sense to pay your own taxes on the total amount you are due than to have already have paid the expenses and, possibly, some of the taxes of the property owner.

    The case of Art Buchwald was a very simple error on his part in negotiating his contract. By accepting a portion of the net profit he effectively made himself a lower priority creditor whereas those who correctly demanded a portion of the gross became effectively priority creditors with a joint first lien on the profits.
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    Build it, make money, then build some more
    Some old school smarts would help - and here's to Rob Toth for his help. Bloody good stuff, even the freebies!

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    • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
      Originally Posted by artwebster View Post

      The bottom line reflects a current or ultimate year situation and cannot be used effectively for tax avoidance. Once again the example given is one I specifically excluded ..

      In the entertainment industry a portion of the gross is taken because it makes more sense to pay your own taxes on the total amount you are due than to have already have paid the expenses and, possibly, some of the taxes of the property owner.

      The case of Art Buchwald was a very simple error on his part in negotiating his contract. By accepting a portion of the net profit he effectively made himself a lower priority creditor whereas those who correctly demanded a portion of the gross became effectively priority creditors with a joint first lien on the profits.
      Okay, Art, you win. You have vision and the rest of the world wears bifocals.

      I'll concede that if you restrict your analysis to businesses that have capital expenses and inventory costs to repay, and depend on high volumes of low price, low margin commodities (like your average supermarket), you may have a point.

      I don't believe you can extrapolate that specific set of conditions to a general conclusion that businesses in the physical world operate on a 5% margin.

      Even in these instances, there may be room for dramatic improvement. If increasing or reallocating the ad spend raises your 5% margin to 6%, that's a 20% improvement in profitability. If you maintain that 5% profit and increase the revenue it applies to from $100,000 to $120,000, again you've improved their bottom line by 20%.

      The goal may be to spend $1 million per day, but that's only if and when it can generate real results. The goal was never to see how much of the client's money we could flush away, nor to immediately jack up the ad budget.
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  • Profile picture of the author artwebster
    Okay, Art, you win. You have vision and the rest of the world wears bifocals.

    I didn't come here to win. I came here to share a lot of experience gained from years of advising clients about the importance of the bottom line. My research has shown that 5% is a fairly accurate reflection of a high mean bottom line and I have not seen many companies making much more (except for those I have already excluded).

    If being supercilius pleases you, be my guest, but it does not make what I say any less real. I live in the real world where I and those people wearing bi-focals all have vision.
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    Build it, make money, then build some more
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    • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
      Originally Posted by artwebster View Post

      Okay, Art, you win. You have vision and the rest of the world wears bifocals.

      I didn't come here to win. I came here to share a lot of experience gained from years of advising clients about the importance of the bottom line. My research has shown that 5% is a fairly accurate reflection of a high mean bottom line and I have not seen many companies making much more (except for those I have already excluded).

      If being supercilius pleases you, be my guest, but it does not make what I say any less real. I live in the real world where I and those people wearing bi-focals all have vision.
      If you think that was simply me trying to be supercilious, my apologies.

      What you seem to be saying is that, based on your own research, all real world companies make no more than 5%, except for the ones who make more. Then doggedly keep repeating the same mantra, and adding "except for that" when anyone offers conflicting assertions.

      I'll grant that I've been called a smartass a time or two (or more) in my life, but "supercilious" is a new one.

      The line I threw at you was actually from the movie "Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid" from the 1970's. I guess I should have referenced that. Never meant to degrade your years of experience.
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  • Profile picture of the author FlightGuy
    Regardless of the ambiguity surrounding net income, bottom lines and profit margins, I must contest that if you are SIMPLE with a client, SIMPLE will be reciprocated.

    As ignorant of a statement this sounds, it is not.

    I have been doing offline marketing, consulting and IM for years. I have owned companies with employees, payroll, overhead, taxes, etc. and I have managed multimillion dollar establishments and I have had to crunch REAL numbers. While it's all really simple math, I can understand why it is simplified, and why these gentlemen are trying to explain it to be a simple understanding, simply because I do it too.

    MOST business owners like simple math, and even when you get heavy into the larger companies, they understand just perfectly when you say to them, "Here's your cost, and here's your return on that cost (or interest)."

    A marketing budget is simply a forecast of revenues and expenditures; you create a model of how your business will perform financially if certain strategies and plans are carried out towards promoting and advertising your business.

    If not tied into sales and cash flow budgets, this whole process is easily simplified.

    You want to know what my clients ask me the most? "When can I see a return on my investment?"

    They simply understand that, when you sit down and calculate the value of a customer, they'd need X amount of customers to cover the cost of their investment. This is as TECHNICAL as it gets and you have millions of dollars between myself, Maria, Robert and Bluestar to prove it. Although I'm not as wise as age contributes to, I have made a very successful income by performing for business owners and yes, adding to their bottom line.

    Kindest,
    John Dennis
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    "If you don't design your own life plan, chances are you'll fall into someone else's plan. And guess what they have planned for you? Not much." - Jim Rohn
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