Do You Abuse Your List?

[Joeez]

I'm just wondering how other Internet Marketers treat their lists.

I ask this because I recently signed up to a well known Internet Marketer's list. He provided a series of list building video tutorials as an incentive for joining.

The videos were excellent. They provided all sorts of great tips, ideas, and practical advice. He even provided some free squeeze page templates.

So this guy had me as a loyal subscriber. All he had to do was to treat me with a little respect and I would probably have bought a product or two from him. I belong to several lists because they are a great way to get free information as well as keeping up on what's new in the IM world.

But, this guy decided to treat me like an idiot. The very same day I joined I got three emails from him. I got four more the next day. They had subject lines like "$1200 a day doing nothing? It's true!"

Even worse, once I hit the unsubscribe button, I realized that he had included me on several of his lists, not just the one I signed up for. I think I had to unsubscribe a total of four or five times before I got rid of him.

Now, I have a modest list of my own. I treat my subscribers as if they were timid forest creatures, and I'm trying to get them to trust me enough to eat from my hand. I don't do like this guy did and try to force feed my list whatever trash I can find.

So I'm wondering how this guy got to be so successful. Is it better to treat your list like dirt just to make a quick buck, or is it better to think of them as a long term investment that will help you as long as you help them?

For my part, I'm going to stick with the latter strategy. I'm wondering what other experienced marketers have to say on this subject, though.

So my question is, "How do you treat your list?"

[JayXtreme]

I treat most of my lists with massive amounts of respect.. it works best like that most of the time...

But there are niches.. that simply convert better with straight pitches.. I usually test this in different niches and some of them I found to be much more responsive and profitable when they simply got pitch and no content.

All 3 of my I.M. niche lists are very precious and are treated as such. I have a good relationship with them..

Peace

Jay

p.s. I wouldn't ever pitch crap just for the sake of it, I still research and review the recommended products... I won't ever promote just for the commissions... it has to be a valuable product.. even if it is only products and no content

[tomsinfield]

I am subscribed to a few lists that sound like what you have mentioned! I usually just delete the emails before reading them. As for my lists, I barely ever promote anything other thatn new posts on my blog to them at the moment.

[Mike Morgan.]

Abusing your list is just like killing your business .

Mike

[Jillian Slack]

Originally Posted by Joeez

Even worse, once I hit the unsubscribe button, I realized that he had included me on several of his lists, not just the one I signed up for. I think I had to unsubscribe a total of four or five times before I got rid of him.

Hi Joeez,

I feel your pain!

There have been a few discussions here on the forum about whether or not it's considered spamming if someone opts in to your list, but then you send them nothing but affiliate links to products you are pitching.

Some say it's not spam because your reader opted in. It was their choice to get messages from you.

Some say it is spam because you're not sending them the quality content they thought they would receive from you (and possibly they did receive quality content from you in the beginning).

Within the last couple of weeks, I've done a little housekeeping in my email in-box.

I took a look at which subscriptions I never read for whatever reason, and hit unsub.

Two very well-known Internet marketers were in my unsub frenzy, yet I was still getting email from them up to a week after I unsubscribed.

I was getting a bit irritated (that's putting it mildly) because I had clicked unsubscribe, yet these dudes continued to send me stuff. Then I realized I was on several of their lists. Probably my own fault, since they had set up individual lists for various products and landing pages, I had clicked on them, and there ya go.

So before you say that someone has included you on several of their lists, keep in mind you may have added yourself to several of their lists in the normal course of doing business with this person, reading their messages, seeing something in their sig line on this forum or another one, etc.

Sure, there might be some unethical folks who decide, once you opt in, that they now have the power to add you to all of their lists, so they do it. That's always a possibility.

I'm assuming that I ended up on five of Mr. A's lists and seven of Mr. B's lists because something else they offered sounded interesting enough for me to click.


Personally, I think it's too much to send your subscribers four messages one day and three the next. But that's just me.

Some say to hit 'em hard because it gives you a better chance of selling something.

But I'm thinking if it damages your relationship with that subscriber and they take action by unsubscribing, you've lost that person. Possibly forever. Maybe they'll rejoin at some point if you catch their attention down the road.

What's that saying about how it's so much easier (and cheaper) to keep a happy client than try to find a new one?

Jill

[TheNightOwl]

Mike, you'd THINK so, but there are several big name marketers who make a KILLING do just that.

Go figure, huh?

And the worst offender (in my opinion) from that "elite brigade" still has an account here at the WF so I can't mention any names.

Putrid, but ka-tchiiiiing!baby!ka-tching!, methinks.

[designfuschion]

What's that saying about how it's so much easier (and cheaper) to keep a happy client than try to find a new one?

Another analogy i learnt when doing my retail course..(it applies to any business)

For every unhappy customer that walks out the door,thats 10 unhappy customers.

(1 unhappy customer will eventually tell a bunch of others ..which ultimately decreases profits )

[TheNightOwl]

Actually, yeah, Jillicious... you picked up two good points from the OP:

1. being automatically subscribed to multiple lists

Bad practice, I reckon, but hey if you're gonna spam the piss outta people, then you may as well go the whole hog, eh?

And, again, these are big name folks that I'm talking about here. People who have a pathetic, sychophantic fanboy lapdog club that weigh in to the debate as soon as you mention their name and tell you how awesome they are and drown out any valid criticism with their noise and hooplah.

Retch.

2. Whether it's spam because you've opted in. Hmmm... this one is tricky, innit.

The most obvious definition of spam as completely unsolicited email (a la "Please kind sir we are regrettably to distrub your prescious time..." variety) need not be discussed; it's clear to everyone, I think.

On the other hand, some people want to argue that if I sign up for info about leatherwork and you start sending me info about how to make money at home in my pyjamas, that's okay because I opted in.

I don't think the toothless mob who are supposed to enforce the CANSPAM Act would agree. And I'm quite sure that most reputable mailing list services (Aweber, Get Response, etc) wouldn't agree, either.

But the tricky one is this...

** I sign up for information about "leatherworking for saddlemakers" and then I start getting 15 emails a week about "making leather handbags" or "cobbling 101" and so on.

Now, at this point it might be argued (perhaps rightly) that these are related topics and the list owner legitimately assumes you would be interested in -- or at least open to the idea of -- pursuing this angle of leatherworking too.

Then come the emails about leather golf bags, and then the ads trying to SELL me leather golf bags (remembering that I signed up for a SADDLEMAKERS' list, right?).

Following that we get a guide on how to sell leathercrafts at your local market.

This one may be relevant to the saddlemaker. Golf bags and the AD for golf bags, uh, no. But that passes by. Most reasonable people go "Hey, a glitch".

Then there's a pitch for Recaro leather car seats.

And then a guide about how to make money on eBay selling leather pencil cases.

And so on...

THIS in my opinion is abusing your list.

Some of it clearly IS what I'd regard as spam even if the law wouldn't agree. Reason? Some of it is unsolicited commercial email about a topic that I did NOT sign up for. The only flimsy (but, to date, clearly flimsy enough) excuse is that all the emails are somehow connected to LEATHER.

Note: not SADDLEMAKING, but leather.

That's what pisses me off.

People think that just because they've got you on a double opt-in list (about ANYTHING; I chose my example deliberately so as not to be laying the boot into the make money online crowd--despite their clearly being the absolute worst offenders), they can then send you anything at all providing it's TENUOUSLY linked to the broad general topic of the squeeze page I opted in from.

Wrong.

But, again, money talks and bull**** walks.

So I'll just keep walking...

TheNightOwl

[sun2son]

A number of good pieces of info in these posts.

My 2 cents - repeating a bit of what has been stated : The cost of finding new customers is often the most expensive element of running a business. Dis-respecting clients is just plain stupid imho.


80/20 rule:
20 % of your list will generate 80% of your profits - threat them like pampered guests.

Conversely - 20 % of your customers create 80% of your grief &/or use up your resources (ie time etc). SOME clients need to be 'fired' - which imho means 'passed on' to another supplier.

I'm sure you're not one of 'those' people - just thought I'd bring it up to expand the discussion a bit.

Thx for opening the discussion!
John

[Allen Lewis]

At the end of the day, it all comes down to tolerance and preferences.

Some 'consensus' is wrong, and it is important to realize that. Do you think that the people who make money from promoting products often are going to come on here and shout from the rooftops about how effective a certain strategy is?

No, people are going to shout from the rooftops that all you should provide is free content and very little promotions (which is the gist of it), because it FEELS right. This, on the other hand, cultivates a list that engages in a lot of conversation, expects a lot of free stuff, and results in clients that require a large amount of your time. In other words, you are still getting paid by the hour as a consultant and not as a business builder.

Do you see McDonald's providing consultation on how to make burgers?

No, they provide a service.

You either do consulting or you sell stuff. It's a choice.

Allen

[LeeMasterson]

I have a healthy sized list of my own - but I'm also subscribed to every one of my direct competitors. I like to see how they treat their lists. When they do things that offend me as a subscriber, I'm very careful not to repeat their mistake. I treat my subscribers like intelligent, individual people and I respect their privacy.

There's one particular list-owner within my niche who continually treats his subscribers with a complete lack of respect. He shoves crap down their throats far too often and openly lies about his results (and his age and his accomplishments). I refuse to emulate him in any way, shape or form - yet his 'followers' continue to flock behind him blindly. It's frustrating to watch so many people fall for this kind of crap when there are many marketers trying to do the right thing.

Sigh. What's a girl to do?

[tommygadget]

Some lists respond to straight pitches constantly and some don't. If you only send information to your list and never ads, the first ad you send will create a massive unsub. wave. Treat your list consistently from day one.

TomG.

[Tyrus Antas]

50 Signs that You’re a Spammer | Infusionsoft Blog

Tyrus

[Mr McDonald]

Why would anyone abuse their lists? They are what make you or break you in this business.
Respect your subscribers like they are a true friend and they will reward you .

I try to get to know my lists personally aswell, every email doesn't have to be loaded with sales links in their faces.

Best wishes

[jeremiasmunn]

Abusing a list is not a good idea, giving them great content and then recommending them great products is a great idea.

[R Hagel]

Do You Abuse Your List?

Yes. Absolutely. But my "Marketing for Masochists" subscribers wouldn't want anything less.



---

Seriously though, no. I respect their time. I know their worlds don't revolve around my messages. I set expectations up front about what they'll get and how often they'll get it so there are no surprises.

Cheers,
Becky

[Paul Moore]

Your list is traffic on demand. It is a valuable asset and much be treated as such.

[yves]

Hi,

I had a similar experience with someone I subscribed to (someone well known) but the process took longer. At first I received great emails with good advice and only interspersed with straight pitches. Now, however, every single email is a full-on pitch and the email itself makes me feel a bit depressed for some reason.

The thing is, if I'd bought every single product the person pitched I would have a serious debt problem l. Maybe there is a shelf life for a subscriber, especially in IM lists when it gets to the point of saturation. I havn't lost respect for the person though, I think it is just time to part ways.

[Amy Bass]

I am always careful to not email my lists too much. I cannot stand when I get daily emails from certain lists trying to sell me a different product each day.

[Gaurav Duggal]

I've found that while a few of the lists im subscribed to do border on "abuse", i think there's a fine line between abuse and "marketing". On one hand if you email product promotions every day and little to no content then yes i think its abuse. On the other hand if you are too timid and afraid to market and be aggressibe then you shouldn't be in this business in the first place... As long as the content is there i don't mind being "pitched", i can easily ignore the messages that don't apply to me.

[Jillian Slack]

Originally Posted by Tyrus Antas

50 Signs that You’re a Spammer | Infusionsoft Blog

Tyrus

That's a fabulous list!

The guys at InfusionSoft are big Dan Kennedy followers, so they're on the right track. They know what they're talking about.

Jill

[astaga]

Yep, same experience here.
A well known (and self boasts) marketer I subscribed to, automatically assume and added me to a whole bunch of his lists. Not a happy camper I am, if you KWIM... I believe the "issue" is about respect.... (BTW, for me I'll never buy anything from him again)

On to the quote below, perhaps we should add the additional following quote:
The cost of finding new customers is often the most expensive element of running a business, BUT the cost of loosing this customer with a bitter aftertaste in their mouth is far greater than the former, because it may result in the wrong kind of viral spillover! (you know, the "one unhappy customer telling 10 others" phenomena!)
Just my 2cents.

Originally Posted by sun2son

A number of good pieces of info in these posts.
My 2 cents - repeating a bit of what has been stated : The cost of finding new customers is often the most expensive element of running a business. Dis-respecting clients is just plain stupid imho.

80/20 rule:
20 % of your list will generate 80% of your profits - threat them like pampered guests.

Conversely - 20 % of your customers create 80% of your grief &/or use up your resources (ie time etc). SOME clients need to be 'fired' - which imho means 'passed on' to another supplier.

I'm sure you're not one of 'those' people - just thought I'd bring it up to expand the discussion a bit.

Thx for opening the discussion!
John