Just got offered $1 for unique article and $0.25 for rewrite! Wahhh

168 replies
Is this common ? I was not sure if I should be offended or just laugh

I try and present my service as offering well researched, quality articles. I'm a college graduate born and raised in the U.S. It's just not feasible ..
I can make more money picking up loose change for an hour..


Since I'm just getting into this industry I'm wondering if any of you seasoned article writers know how to handle things like this.. Do you get low balled a lot ?
#$025 #article #offered #rewrite #unique #wahhh
  • Profile picture of the author nick1123
    Perhaps a lowball offer is a starting point for negotiations.

    I know of other article writers that will actually write a series of articles for free in exchange for testimonials and reviews to build up their portfolio.

    For an experienced article writer this bid amount seems very low. Have you asked the bidder why it's so low?
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    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      Originally Posted by nick1123 View Post

      Perhaps a lowball offer is a starting point for negotiations.

      I know of other article writers that will actually write a series of articles for free in exchange for testimonials and reviews to build up their portfolio.

      For an experienced article writer this bid amount seems very low. Have you asked the bidder why it's so low?
      I wish I remembered the name, but I once had a game that was all about BARTER! The idea was to get the stuff needed to acheive your goals.

      If you offered too low a price, they sometimes would CHOP YOUR HEAD OFF because it was an INSULT!

      Some people just DON'T understand how the economy works. As I argued in another thread, an American consultant generally wants twice the going rate, and twice the going rate for UNSKILLED labor in the US is $14.50/hour! In my current job, general database consulting, that is about $100 an hour!

      A few years ago, people would sign loans for 1-3%! WHY would anyone try to get 2% with RISK when they could do so SAFELY? WHY offer 3% with high risk when people got 5% with low risk? Well, people took the bait, it was a scam, and the economy collapsed!

      Offering $1 per UNIQUE article is STUPID!

      Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author Jaysmyne
    how long was the article they wanted you to write/rewrite?
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  • Profile picture of the author mr.schutz
    Yeah some people are like that . Just laugh @ them, and maybe tell them, " Oh thank you, but my schedules are tight." LOL. Good luck buddy!
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  • Profile picture of the author Ernie Lo
    Yeah its getting more like that every day. it's all those indians. Their taking over lol, half of my old job is going to get fired soon and replacing with them indian workers.
    (no offense its just the truth)

    2-3 years back it was common to get paid $5-6 min per article.
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  • Profile picture of the author monopuff
    The gentleman who emailed me spoke very broken English and said that he had a very limited budget .. He was looking for about 350 word articles.

    I think offering low or free rates to build testimonials is something I will definitely look into more, thanks for the idea.
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    • Profile picture of the author JonStein
      Originally Posted by monopuff View Post

      The gentleman who emailed me spoke very broken English and said that he had a very limited budget .. He was looking for about 350 word articles.

      I think offering low or free rates to build testimonials is something I will definitely look into more, thanks for the idea.

      I can tell you as an experienced and qualified writer, that offering your services for a few dollars just to build up a testimonial is a bad way to start your business.
      I did the same when I started and then all of a sudden I was getting loads of work from referrals, all who wanted me to do their articles for $3 or $4 each.

      If you charge less than $10 for a 500 word article, you will soon get burnt out.

      If someone tells you there 'budget' is limited, tell them your time is valuable!
      Consider this for a moment:

      I wrote a series of articles some time ago for a client, those articles were sold through a PLR package to more than 250 people at a cost of $47 each. I was paid $200 for the series of articles, however the client made more than $10,000.

      So tell me again how TIGHT is your budget?

      Articles are used for one purpose only: To MAKE money!
      Without articles, most Internet Marketers would starve.

      If you are only going to charge a few dollars for your articles, you would make more money by writing the articles for yourself and promoting your own business or affiliate products.
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  • Profile picture of the author SullyUI
    Don't ever work for less than 10 dollars per 500 word article, otherwise you're wasting your time, and even that is really low in my opinion.
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    • Profile picture of the author JackPowers
      Originally Posted by Sully Chaudry View Post

      Don't ever work for less than 10 dollars per 500 word article, otherwise you're wasting your time, and even that is really low in my opinion.
      Agreed!

      Actually, 10 dollars is kinda low. A good article which has the possibility of being linkbait should cost at least $50 for 500 words.
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      • Profile picture of the author GeorgR.
        Originally Posted by JackPowers View Post

        Agreed!

        Actually, 10 dollars is kinda low. A good article which has the possibility of being linkbait should cost at least $50 for 500 words.
        this might be the case...my "best" writer ever charges around $5, and those *are* very high quality articles by an experienced, native english speaker. If you can charge $50...power to you, although it totally eludes why to pay as much for an article.
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  • Profile picture of the author Troy_Phillips
    Wow they offered you a whole dollar .

    There is a difference in you offering to write an article for someone for free in return for a testimonial and someone insulting you by offering $1 for your intellectual property.

    I would tell them for a dollar all they get is "kiss my ass" and oh yeah a signature
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  • Profile picture of the author Allen Graves
    Umm, a dollar?

    ...a dollar.

    really?

    a dollar?

    Just hit the delete button, bro.
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  • Profile picture of the author bannor32
    Seeing more and more of that these days. As long as the good writers stick to their guns and don't sell their services for peanuts the trend will hopefully reverse as customers realize that people actually willing to write for so little aren't likely to do a good job.
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  • Profile picture of the author charlesburke
    Yeah, offering free articles as an intro can be effective, if your strategy is built on leading to a good, solid backend offer, or if you KNOW you're approaching reasonably serious buyers who can be upgraded.

    That guy doesn't sound like either one. Just keep moving forward. Sometimes you get strange offers, but it's important o laugh and move on.

    In Japan I did a lot of editing work, and sometimes I'd get a "customer" who'd offer me, say, 25% of my usual rate, but would send me lots and lots of work. My reply was always "So if I agree to lose a little money on this job, you'll let me lose a lot of money on future jobs? No thanks."

    Years ago, I ran a painting contracting business, and one day a small builder asked me to give a quote on all the houses he was putting up. He offered $500 per house. I was just starting out, and I wanted business, but I simply could not figure a way to make a profit at that price, no matter how many houses he had. We talked back and forth for a while, and he finally let it slip that he was looking for a new painter because his last three painters had all gone broke.

    Gee I wonder why.

    Cheers from warm and smiling Thailand,
    Charles
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  • Profile picture of the author Diver's
    That's really bad... i think all the pro writers should stick on to their price. It was not just article your are writing, they gain credibility with quality article you are producing. You write with experience and charisma.

    Those are probably newbies and lookign for cheap way to get more.

    You are not using those 'software' to automatically generate new article.

    you make good point there Charles..
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    • Profile picture of the author steve39
      I just hired an excellent writer on one of those forums. But in order to find him, I had to wade through at least a week of incredibly bad article samples and aggressive $3/article "writers" promising way more than they could deliver. Not one of them could write at the level I was looking for. Funny thing is, I never specified a price to begin with.

      I wouldn't worry about the competition at that level because I can't imagine they're getting much work. If you can write quality, you can demand more. I ended up paying $8 per 300 words, and the quality was great. It was actually something I could use and not be embarrassed to put on my sites.
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      • Profile picture of the author Tina Golden
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        • Profile picture of the author WareTime
          Volume man, volume. Crank out 1 billion articles at a buck a piece. BLING!

          Kind of like John Candy in Armed and Dangerous I think. The owner of the security company at the orientation said, "welcome to private security, a 6 billion dollar a year industry." John Candy says, "wow, you mean we'll earn 6 billion dollars." Security company owner, "no, you'll earn $6.50 an hour like everyone else." John Candy comes back with, "well, I mean if I was eager enough and put in the time."
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        • Profile picture of the author MarkWrites
          Originally Posted by TMG Enterprises View Post

          The main thing that any real writer needs to remember is that these people are not your competition and that their customers are not your target market.
          This is exactly the frame of mind you should have.

          I usually respond with "I'm sorry that type of writing isn't really my field". Sometimes its also fun to tell them "if you find anyone at that ridiculously low rate, please let me know as I would probably be a buyer at that price too - thanks!".

          In truth, what was probably happening is he was trying to buy $1 articles so he could resell them as his original articles for $3 each. This was most likely his attempt at outsourcing.
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          • Profile picture of the author deskmonkey
            I know it can be insulting to be offered peanuts for your time and effort, but don't blow your top and insult the guy in return. Like nick1123 says, you can use that as the starting point for negotiations. Maybe the guy really does have a tight budget, but you might be able to convince him that a few bucks more for a quality article will be worth the investment. If you have any promos, then run them by him to see if he'll bite. If things go well, you might be able to turn this guy into a repeat customer.
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  • Profile picture of the author Revolves
    I agree with Tina above. These writers are not your competition. Just like there are cheap buyers, there are cheap writers too.

    Do you really think a person with say, a good reputable website would risk outsourcing articles to such people? Never. A person may end up paying even $50 for a well researched, useful article from a person who knows what he is writing rather than spending $2 on an plagiarized article. I use the word plagiarized because cheap writers (cheap as in people who sell by "price" not "quality") don't know the meaning of research.

    Qualified writers do get a lot of repeat customers too. And business from reputable corners. There is nothing to worry about.
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    • Profile picture of the author vitalgirl
      Have you tried odesk? I use it to hire writers and other outsourcers, and whilst there are people wanting ridiculous ($1) articles, there are others who pay $5, $10, $20 etc. And there are jobs that pay by the hour too. It's a really easy to use system, I find, and lot of jobs get posted. I haven't used elance since finding it.

      When you're posting for jobs, just make sure you've included samples in your portfolio section. That will certainly help/mitigate lack of feedback/the fact that you're just starting out. I've also used some great native english speakers from various places and once they got their first job and some great feedback, were really busy. They were not writing for $1 an article :-)

      Rebecca
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  • Profile picture of the author johnmags
    I have observed that in Guru.com, there are projects posted for articles at $0.50 to $1 per 500-word articles; and I can't even believe that there are numerous bidders. lol. It's normal bro.

    just let it go without any remorse.

    You have your own standard and stick with it. It's either they take it or leave it.
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  • Profile picture of the author charlesburke
    Had a good belly laugh at that one, Tina.

    Lots and lots of peanuts are still peanuts.
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  • Profile picture of the author elle56
    I see a lot of those rates in freelancing sites. Thing is, there are takers for these lowly wages. And that's the reality of it all. If it doesn't meet your standards, just let it go.
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  • Profile picture of the author Mary Gallivan
    Hi

    I've seen offers like that too - incredible!

    Someone has just offered me $2.50 - $4 for an article which just isn't worth it for the amount of time and research I put into article writing. I'm worth far more than that.

    Mary
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  • Profile picture of the author Jon Alexander
    Originally Posted by monopuff View Post

    Is this common ? I was not sure if I should be offended or just laugh

    I try and present my service as offering well researched, quality articles. I'm a college graduate born and raised in the U.S. It's just not feasible ..
    I can make more money picking up loose change for an hour..


    Since I'm just getting into this industry I'm wondering if any of you seasoned article writers know how to handle things like this.. Do you get low balled a lot ?
    you're now competing with people who use automated tools to do the initial rewrite, and spend maybe 30 seconds to a minute 'tarting it up'. When you look at it like that, a buck is quite a lot.
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  • Profile picture of the author Bev Clement
    This is from my experience as a writer.

    When I had my prices listed on my website as I did originally, I got a lot of people asking for my prices, around 90% asking would I give them a huge discount. They would say they couldn't afford to pay my rates and could I do them for [fill in the blank]. It seems that having a page with the prices for a lot of marketers (and I mean marketers) was the red light to start to ask for lower prices.

    I removed that page and found that people who needed writing, would ask my prices (not displayed so understandable) and less than 10% would ask for a discount.

    Now I have a downloadable price list, and I never, ever get asked for a discount. I get a few people asking what my rates are, and I send them a copy of my price list.

    The other thing I found, as soon as I changed my model, I found that the people looking for writers also changed.

    There are a whole lot of other factors but these simple changes will make the difference.

    I laugh when I see people saying $5 an article is the norm, and you can't get more.

    I have found sites which pay their writers anything between $1 and $5 per word and no I didn't miss out the decimal point.

    I recently doubled my rates without any complaints.

    I then did some work for a company, and that also was double my normal rates.

    As I say there are many different factors which will make a difference to your business.

    But, I would say get advice from other writers, not from marketers who don't have any money to spend, who will tell you that $5 is the norm or the top price for a 500 word article.

    Would I recommend reducing your prices to get testimonials, yes I would reduce them to at least $10 for a testimonial. Would I do free articles, nope. These are not normally buyers, they are the people who are only looking for free. Many of them will say great articles, time and time again whereas the article is badly researched and written.

    Before anyone asked, I now charge $45 for a 400 word article
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    • Profile picture of the author Tina Golden
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      • Profile picture of the author Jon Alexander
        Originally Posted by TMG Enterprises View Post

        No, you are not. Or at least you shouldn't be competing with these people. Again, if you are a decent writer, that should not be your market.

        That is interesting, Bev. I think I'll test this myself.

        Tina G
        sorry, didn't make myself clear. What I mean is that people offering such low amounts for rewrites are basing their understanding of what it costs on the fact that they know they can get 'similar' services at the price they think is reasonable. And the third parties supplying the rewrites can only supply at that low price because they use automation. I in no way meant that the OP should try and compete with them on price. After all, a mass-built Ford costs a few thou. A hand built morgan costs rather more. Or at least mine did.
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  • Profile picture of the author Jesus Perez
    Oh the irony...

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    • Profile picture of the author rapidscc
      Originally Posted by BlueSquares View Post

      Oh the irony...

      hahaha , the online marketing world is really one of the most humorous places one can get into. It definitely has variety, there are clowns, magicians, etc..

      As for your case, you could always look for a better offer.

      It is true that $1 dollar is higher in other countries, here it's 48P.

      But I think you'll be better off putting your articles in EZA and attach an affiliate product from clickbank, wait for a few weeks and whala! If you choose a good product you could get from $7 to $50 plus..for a single article..wait, that could be for a lifetime..hmmmmm...

      It's a much more effective alternative..Remember your time has value too..

      oMar
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  • Profile picture of the author monopuff
    @BlueSquares .. too funny

    Just want to say thank you for all the advice and laughs in this thread
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  • Profile picture of the author LeeMasterson
    If someone tells you they're on a tight budget, then they'll need to look at budget writers in places other than the US to get anything written at those prices. Don't drop your own rates to suit what they think they want to pay.

    When they figure out that paying properly actually gets them better quality, they'll find a new budget to play with.

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  • Profile picture of the author Tyrus Antas
    Never compete for price. There's always somebody willing to go lower. At 1$ an article, many people could live like kings in some countries, writing 10 articles a day...

    My mother's retirement wage is actually lower than that(30*10).

    Tyrus
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  • Profile picture of the author Davion Wong
    That kind of pay is ridiculous. If you are looking for work as a writer, pm me. I can offer you work, and definitely will not pay $1 for an original and $0.25 for a rewrite.

    Originally Posted by monopuff View Post

    Is this common ? I was not sure if I should be offended or just laugh

    I try and present my service as offering well researched, quality articles. I'm a college graduate born and raised in the U.S. It's just not feasible ..
    I can make more money picking up loose change for an hour..


    Since I'm just getting into this industry I'm wondering if any of you seasoned article writers know how to handle things like this.. Do you get low balled a lot ?
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  • Profile picture of the author Bev Clement
    Tina, it isn't only me that found that. All my students who did it found exactly the same results. Those who were having the same problem now have downloadable price list (other reasons why you should do this as well) and are all getting at least $0.10 per word for their work.

    I know some say top writers here earn $0.05 per word, not true, it's just that my students don't post here anymore, they have other fish to fry
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    • Profile picture of the author steve39
      Originally Posted by Bev Clement View Post

      Tina, it isn't only me that found that. All my students who did it found exactly the same results. Those who were having the same problem now have downloadable price list (other reasons why you should do this as well) and are all getting at least $0.10 per word for their work.

      I know some say top writers here earn $0.05 per word, not true, it's just that my students don't post here anymore, they have other fish to fry
      Honestly, I think if you were unknown and posted an ad on any forum for article writing @ 10 cents a word, you'd hear crickets. There is no doubt that some people are worth that, but, in my opinion, you'd have to have some hefty credentials behind you and an amazing reputation in the writing community. You would also, undoubtedly, be writing for an elite few, not the typical webmaster trying to turn a meager profit.
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      • Profile picture of the author Bev Clement
        Originally Posted by steve39 View Post

        Honestly, I think if you were unknown and posted an ad on any forum for article writing @ 10 cents a word, you'd hear crickets. There is no doubt that some people are worth that, but, in my opinion, you'd have to have some hefty credentials behind you and an amazing reputation in the writing community. You would also, undoubtedly, be writing for an elite few, not the typical webmaster trying to turn a meager profit.
        No you are wrong there, because none of them post ads on forums for article writing. It has nothing to do with being known or unknown. Most of my clients didn't know me from Adam when they contacted me.

        Most of my students didn't have the credibility in the writing community. I'm not even sure my name would be recognised in the writing community. I don't go to writing forums, and rarely visit any forums.

        The thing is the elite few as you say are actually the elite majority but they are not found on marketing forums. They are not the marketing webmasters who want to pay as low a price for content and then sell it on for a massive profit. Example, a marketer who sells a package offline for a website with content for $10K but pays $500 to the writer because they can't afford any more but pockets $9K for very little work.

        Those are the type of people writers need to avoid, there are bigger and better people to work for.
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      • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
        Originally Posted by Heuristic View Post

        Honestly, I think if you were unknown and posted an ad on any forum for article writing @ 10 cents a word, you'd hear crickets. There is no doubt that some people are worth that, but, in my opinion, you'd have to have some hefty credentials behind you and an amazing reputation in the writing community. You would also, undoubtedly, be writing for an elite few, not the typical webmaster trying to turn a meager profit.
        So you are familiar with bev, then...
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        • Profile picture of the author Heuristic
          Since that original post in May, I have come to appreciate the talents of a good writer and, yeah, some of them are worth .10/word and more. I have tried the OP's services and I agree that he needs to raise his prices - at least double or triple.
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  • Profile picture of the author iForumulaSuccess
    There were a couple points in this thread I liked. Above all else, I have to agree with one thing, if you want quality customers, those who are willing to pay for your expertise with serious work, one that is proven to generate leads from your writing skills, you need to test the market.

    Starting with free articles to more advanced articles is a good way to distribute a wide range of "portfolio" work and generate leads. My thought is this, if your services are requested for a very broad topic, one that anyone can research online and write a 500 word article in a matter of 15 minutes, consider that for free services.

    If your services are for a more specific topic, and a more specific niche like mechanical ball bearings for an air conditioning manufacturer, then charge accordingly to your level of service. These people are targeting buyers who are looking for ball bearings for their air conditioners. (This is just made up. I have no idea if air conditioners have ball bearings).

    If your article can translate into $5 per sale for your client, and you know how much traffic they get, then there is no reason why you can't ask for more than a buck.

    I do know writers who are starting out with free articles and a penny per word. However, 500 words only means 50 cents. That's a tough deal because you have a choice between a "seo" article and a content filler.

    I rather pay $20 for an seo article and fine-tune it to my personal style than a 50 cent article that is not optimized for search engines.

    I guess you need to be asking, what is the point of this article you want me to write for you?
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    • Profile picture of the author Isabella Swan


      If your article can translate into $5 per sale for your client, and you know how much traffic they get, then there is no reason why you can't ask for more than a buck. ]


      I am completely agree with this. Atleast you can demand for your thoughtful articles!
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  • Profile picture of the author valerieSONORA
    Haha, was that a joke? Delete it and forget about it. I don't even think you could get gibberish for that.
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  • Profile picture of the author nokimchen
    not bad!......i'd like to take that kinda job....cus its sure money!
    SOmetimes it betta to write for ur own blog/site but its a long term....good bad!
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  • Profile picture of the author Tom Brite
    It is common but only if you know where to look and what your looking for....

    Ive hired literally hundreds of people at $1 an article (500 to 600 words) and a good percentage of them have been american or british which is even better. But then i can throw out an article every 10 to 15 minutes and so in an hour that amount add's up meaning i could charge a smaller amount.

    Tom Brite
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  • Profile picture of the author Lindsay Brynn
    There is a lot of great info in this thread. I started writing services not that long ago too and I have come across MANY cheapies. It is true that they are simply not your target market. There is no way that they can expect you to write well researched articles for such cheap prices.

    I just can't afford to have my prices so low because then I might as well just write for my own websites and make a lot more money in the long run.

    So just stick with it and the higher paying customers will be there eventually! It is just the beginning part of getting your name out there that is a little difficult.
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  • Profile picture of the author greff
    Let's see.

    If I write an article every 5 minutes, that would be $12 per hour.

    Since I am making only $8 right now at Micky D's, that sounds like something I will get into. Of course, I would be using software, too, and the product would be crappy. (shrug)
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  • Profile picture of the author nemock
    wow, and I thought $5 per article was bad.

    I've paid people with PhD's $10 per article and though I was ripping them off.

    $1? I'd move on. Seek your own clients. There are many who would benefit from article marketing that don't go to the outsourcing sites. Reposition your services to include some type of extra consultation and then you're not just another apple in the basket.

    Dave
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  • Profile picture of the author Paul Hancox
    Is this common?
    On certain sites (like Elance), yes.

    You have to remember that, when people talk about "articles", they mean different things.

    There are "Human bait" articles that a person wants to build their authority in their niche, that are going to be used to build a loyal following, and that will eventually lead to that following BUYING stuff.

    Then there are articles that are basically "SEO bait", to create tons of backlinks to a site, or "Adsense bait", just to have something surrounding the Adsense ads that they really want the visitor to click.

    Sometimes it's worth attempting to educate those types of customers into seeing and realizing the difference.

    Most of the time, however, $1 articles are for "SEO bait" or "Adsense bait", so high quality isn't really their main concern. Their main concern is that it isn't an exact duplicate of someone else's article

    I try and present my service as offering well researched, quality articles.
    How? How are you presenting this? Simply telling a client you offer "well researched, quality articles" doesn't cut it. That's also what the $1 article mill writers say.

    In my report Write To More Money, I explain how you must "sell the difference". You must leave the client in NO DOUBT as to the value they will get from you, compared to a "cheap" writer.

    Using cliched and overused phrases like "high quality writing" is NOT selling. In fact, this phrase means nothing since it's so over-used.

    I can make more money picking up loose change for an hour..
    Precisely. But bear mind mind that what you consider to be "loose change" may be a decent wage in certain countries.

    So unless you want to work at their rates, you MUST, MUST, MUST sell the difference to your potential clients.

    Think of it like this.

    If I offered you a choice of two cars, one at $1,000 and one at $3,000... which would you pick?

    If that's all you knew about the two cars... the price... you might pick the cheaper one (if you could afford it).

    If you knew the $3,000 car was actually going to LAST YOU 10 TIMES LONGER and be TWICE AS EFFICIENT TO RUN... you'd be much more likely to pick the $3,000 car now, because I've demonstrated higher value.

    You must demonstrate the value of your higher priced writing to your clients.

    Chances are, clients that are after $1 articles are just after "SEO bait" or "Adsense bait", and you probably wouldn't want to bother writing for them, anyway.

    But for clients who want to use their articles to build up their authority, subscriptions and sales... MAKE THEM SEE the added value you offer to your writing.

    Just like I did with the example of the $3,000 car versus the $1,000 car.

    SHOW them how it will build them into the authority in their niche.

    SHOW them how it will make people want to read more, and subscribe.

    SHOW them how it will lead directly to sales.

    The golden rule in sales is: Show, don't tell.

    People don't buy just because you tell them, "I offer high quality writing". They buy when you can show this, and demonstrate why it's so important to them.
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  • Profile picture of the author Marhelper
    Originally Posted by monopuff View Post

    Is this common ? I was not sure if I should be offended or just laugh

    I try and present my service as offering well researched, quality articles. I'm a college graduate born and raised in the U.S. It's just not feasible ..
    I can make more money picking up loose change for an hour..


    Since I'm just getting into this industry I'm wondering if any of you seasoned article writers know how to handle things like this.. Do you get low balled a lot ?
    I have had that happen too ... just laugh.
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  • Profile picture of the author SMP
    I wouldn't get out of bed for this

    I've only ever written articles for myself. I'm not about to say that mine were that great but this thread has made me realise that there is no real money to be made writing for anyone else.

    Steve
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    • Profile picture of the author Eric Lorence
      That's not a "lowball" offer - it's idiotic...

      Not even worth the time you spent posting this thread.
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      • Profile picture of the author pwnzor
        I would just ignore the person... I dont see how anybody in any country could make a living writing an article for $1 unless it was spun...
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  • Profile picture of the author JonStein
    Let's put the whole thing into perspective:

    Your article is the raw material needed by Internet Marketers to promote their product.
    Therefore they fully intend to make a profit off your work.
    As such, they should be willing to pay a reasonable and fair amount for your work.
    I have written several articles for my own products, posted them on eza and turned more than $100 in affiliate commissions from each article.

    Now that being said, why would I write an article for $1?

    Of course, this same type of thread has been hashed and rehashed ad nauseum on WF for as long as I have been around, and there are always two sides
    One says the articles are not worth more than a few dollars, while others say the articles are worth $10 to as much as $100.

    To this I say, those who want to pay $1 for an article, write it yourself!
    Those that wish to pay upwards of $10, let me know!

    Now if you would excuse me, I am headed to Starbucks to see if they will accept 40 cents for a White Chocolate Mocha venti (normally $4) after all its just coffee! right?

    Jon
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    • Profile picture of the author Paul Hancox
      Originally Posted by JonStein View Post

      Now if you would excuse me, I am headed to Starbucks to see if they will accept 40 cents for a White Chocolate Mocha venti (normally $4) after all its just coffee! right?
      Quote Of The Year. I wish every Warrior (especially the ones who write for a living) would paint that on their office walls.

      Or at least write it on a Post-It Note and stick it next to their computer
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    • Profile picture of the author Scott Ames
      Originally Posted by JonStein View Post

      Let's put the whole thing into perspective:


      Now if you would excuse me, I am headed to Starbucks to see if they will accept 40 cents for a White Chocolate Mocha venti (normally $4) after all its just coffee! right?

      Jon

      HaHaHa!! I love this.
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      Success consists of going from failure to failure without loss of enthusiasm. -Winston Churchill

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  • Profile picture of the author mafiamarketer
    you can get articles quality ones written for 2.5 dollars each if you order in bulk i have a guy i work with where i do so much volume with him now that he get really really cheap rates
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  • Profile picture of the author Peggy Baron
    Don't back down! If you are a quality writer, stay positioned as such.
    I think Tina and Bev put it nicely.

    If they're looking to pay $1 per article, you could point them towards PLR? That's the going rate.

    Peggy
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    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      Originally Posted by Peggy Baron View Post

      Don't back down! If you are a quality writer, stay positioned as such.
      I think Tina and Bev put it nicely.

      If they're looking to pay $1 per article, you could point them towards PLR? That's the going rate.

      Peggy
      PLR actually costs *******FAR******* more than $1 per article. It simply appears cheap because a lot of people SHARE the rights. the articles are, therefore, not unique. It is almost like the LAtimes. They used to cost like $.25. Frankly, I think the $.25 was actually to LIMIT sales. They had to make the money from the ads. Still, they would have been HEAVILY in debt if they only sold one copy.
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  • Profile picture of the author pheonix44
    I made a similar post a while back.http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...u-serious.html


    I feel your pain trust me. Even if you have a hard time getting good pay there are several ways to use your writing to generate income.
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  • Profile picture of the author George Katsoudas
    I'd write an article for $1...













































    ... if it was a 40-word paragraph.

    - George
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  • Profile picture of the author LittleMike
    Okay, so for the uninitiated to outsourcing article writing, what is the "going rate" for a quality 500 page article? From what I'm reading here it sounds like a good $50. So to get 10 articles written for a startup blog would cost $500? That's nuts!

    Now don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to take food out of anyone's mouth, but I have ALWAYS been told that 10 articles would cost you a grand total of $50. Eric Louviere himself teaches that in JobCrusher. Are all the IM gurus misleading us? Seriously, because these guys really shouldn't be quoting numbers like that if you writers command a higher price.
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    • Profile picture of the author KellyK
      Originally Posted by LittleMike View Post

      Okay, so for the uninitiated to outsourcing article writing, what is the "going rate" for a quality 500 page article? From what I'm reading here it sounds like a good $50. So to get 10 articles written for a startup blog would cost $500? That's nuts!
      And what are you planning on doing with that blog? Making money?

      I'm not saying that $50/blog post is the going rate, but if you're willing to pay a designer $400-1200 for your design and then pay your writer only $20 for 10 articles, I'd say your priorities are skewed. I had a guy once tell me that he could only pay $3-5/article because, otherwise, he wouldn't make any money. Wow. Not my problem. I can't afford to work for peanuts. Something tells me if the roles were reversed, he wouldn't do it, either.

      If marketers can't afford to pay a writer for their time and effort, then the marketer in question needs to learn to write articles himself.

      To the OP: Do not insult yourself by taking this rate. I've been in this business for awhile. I remember when Elance was a reputable freelance bid site where you could command higher prices. Sounds like a fairy tale, but once upon a time, that's how it worked.

      I do like Bev's idea of not listing your prices on your website and I may incorporate that practice into my own services.

      Charge what you're comfortable with. If you're a prolific writer who can pound out three articles an hour, charge $15-20/article so you command a rate of around $45-60/hour. You're offering a service to these guys that they themselves are incapable of doing. If they were capable of writing an article that wins eyeballs, they wouldn't be asking someone else to do it. They want something for nothing so they can take home a greater profit.

      And part of that profit is part of yours. There's no reason for you to put free money in this guy's pocket.

      One more thing: Don't give away samples. You're going to have numerous people look at your portfolio and then say, "Yeah, can you write an article about acne so I can see that you know what you're doing?"

      Close the door on that one. You don't go to Red Lobster and ask for a free shrimp plate so you can be sure the cook knows what they're doing. When I first started out, I fell for this scheme. 75% of the people who ask for these samples, you'll never hear from them again. They'll take your article, spin it or have it rewritten for a buck or two and you'll be out your time and money.

      The other 25% are just the type of client you don't want to work for. If they can't find what they're looking for in your portfolio, they need to go to the next writer. The freelance communities are really trying to pound this into the new writers because if there's one thing that will knock the wind out of your sails when you're starting, it's giving someone a five finger discount.
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      • Profile picture of the author LittleMike
        Originally Posted by KellyK View Post

        And what are you planning on doing with that blog? Making money?

        I'm not saying that $50/blog post is the going rate, but if you're willing to pay a designer $400-1200 for your design and then pay your writer only $20 for 10 articles, I'd say your priorities are skewed. I had a guy once tell me that he could only pay $3-5/article because, otherwise, he wouldn't make any money. Wow. Not my problem. I can't afford to work for peanuts. Something tells me if the roles were reversed, he wouldn't do it, either.

        If marketers can't afford to pay a writer for their time and effort, then the marketer in question needs to learn to write articles himself.
        I didn't realize this thread was resurrected. Yes, the plan with the blog would be to make money. But you can't start making money with a blog until you have articles for it, right?

        I'm not saying that $1 an article was a fair price. I think that's too low. But like I said, Eric said you can get quality articles for $5 each. Is he way off-base?

        Personally I think $50 for a 300-500 word article is ludicrous. Unless I just said, "Here's the keywords I want targeted, go!" I would never pay that much money for a single article. Don't people usually do most of the legwork for their writers? Like, "Okay, here are the keywords I want targeted. I want the article to talk about such and such topic, covering this, this and this. Oh, and here are some links with a bunch of information on the subject. I basically just need someone to connect the dots for me."

        I would think that having the marketer do all that definitely cuts into the amount the writer should charge. But then again that's just my opinion. I'm not talking about a 10 page sales letter. I'm talking about a single blog post.

        -Mike
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        • Profile picture of the author Dan C. Rinnert
          Originally Posted by LittleMike View Post

          Personally I think $50 for a 300-500 word article is ludicrous. Unless I just said, "Here's the keywords I want targeted, go!" I would never pay that much money for a single article. Don't people usually do most of the legwork for their writers? Like, "Okay, here are the keywords I want targeted. I want the article to talk about such and such topic, covering this, this and this. Oh, and here are some links with a bunch of information on the subject. I basically just need someone to connect the dots for me."

          I would think that having the marketer do all that definitely cuts into the amount the writer should charge. But then again that's just my opinion. I'm not talking about a 10 page sales letter. I'm talking about a single blog post.
          Writing a real article involves more than taking a bunch of keywords and stringing them together. Reminds me of those stories from way back when where you would supply a couple nouns, a couple verbs and a couple adjectives, and it would spin out a story for you. To do a genuine article, the writer might have to do some research in order to make sure that the article is worthwhile and provides accurate information. Even if you provide them with links to information, they still have to read and understand that information sufficiently enough to compose a cogent article on the topic. That takes time. Billable time.

          Of course, if all you're looking for is content for a MFA blog, where the goal is to have keyword-loaded content to spam the search engines so your blog will be found, only to present to the visitor content that is so unintelligible they are driven to click an ad to escape it, then low-end "articles" are probably your thing.

          What always amuses me is that there are marketers who will think of nothing to spend hundreds or thousands of dollars to have a sales letter written, but are think an article is only worth $5.

          Well, the work that goes into creating an article is not much different than the work that goes into a sales letter. A sales letter is designed to sell something, to push a product. But, an article is not without purpose. An article should engage the reader. It should provide them useful information. It should be worth their time reading. It should encourage them to return to your website or blog.

          Every article you put up is a potential first article a visitor will see. If that article fails to grab them, they're gone. They may not ever return. As any marketer knows, retaining a customer is far more cost-effective than attracting a new customer. So, every visitor that leaves is one less visitor you have retained.

          One quality article that retains visitors, that engages them and that encourages them to return is going to be better than 5-10 articles that do not. Quality articles are an investment. They are an asset. They can continue to perform long after you've paid for them.
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          • Profile picture of the author LittleMike
            Originally Posted by Dan C. Rinnert View Post

            Writing a real article involves more than taking a bunch of keywords and stringing them together. Reminds me of those stories from way back when where you would supply a couple nouns, a couple verbs and a couple adjectives, and it would spin out a story for you. To do a genuine article, the writer might have to do some research in order to make sure that the article is worthwhile and provides accurate information. Even if you provide them with links to information, they still have to read and understand that information sufficiently enough to compose a cogent article on the topic. That takes time. Billable time.

            Of course, if all you're looking for is content for a MFA blog, where the goal is to have keyword-loaded content to spam the search engines so your blog will be found, only to present to the visitor content that is so unintelligible they are driven to click an ad to escape it, then low-end "articles" are probably your thing.

            What always amuses me is that there are marketers who will think of nothing to spend hundreds or thousands of dollars to have a sales letter written, but are think an article is only worth $5.

            Well, the work that goes into creating an article is not much different than the work that goes into a sales letter. A sales letter is designed to sell something, to push a product. But, an article is not without purpose. An article should engage the reader. It should provide them useful information. It should be worth their time reading. It should encourage them to return to your website or blog.

            Every article you put up is a potential first article a visitor will see. If that article fails to grab them, they're gone. They may not ever return. As any marketer knows, retaining a customer is far more cost-effective than attracting a new customer. So, every visitor that leaves is one less visitor you have retained.

            One quality article that retains visitors, that engages them and that encourages them to return is going to be better than 5-10 articles that do not. Quality articles are an investment. They are an asset. They can continue to perform long after you've paid for them.
            Dan I see your point, but I can't seem to agree with you. If the marketer does all of the legwork and hires the writer to basically just make it into one cohesive article, then why should he be charged $50 for an article (or $2,000 if you're saying it's the same work as a sales letter)?

            A marketer is not paying a writer to learn the topic. A marketer is paying the writer to take the information he gives him and make it useful content. I've read right here on the WF that the good writers can crank out a good quality article in about 20 minutes. So the marketer is paying $150/hour when practically all the work is done for them already? An average web designer gets paid $40/hour of labor intensive work. Nothing is laid out for them. Everything is up to their own creativity. They basically get a general outline of what the client is looking for and they have to run with it. So from what you're saying, someone who takes all the information that's already given to them, compiles it into a nice article, and gives it their own personal touch and flare, is worth 3 times that? I'm sorry, but I'm still going to have to disagree.

            On a side note, as far as paying $2,000 for a sales letter, I think that's a bit rich too.

            I guess my biggest problem trying to wrap my head around the price is what goes into creating a simple article. I can tell you first hand all the arduous work that goes into web design. Maybe it's my lack of knowledge on the subject, but I can see what actually goes into the process and understand the costs behind it and I can't do that with writing. If everything is already laid out for you, what are you doing for the money a marketer is paying?

            -Mike
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            • Profile picture of the author KellyK
              Originally Posted by LittleMike View Post

              I can tell you first hand all the arduous work that goes into web design. Maybe it's my lack of knowledge on the subject, but I can see what actually goes into the process and understand the costs behind it and I can't do that with writing. If everything is already laid out for you, what are you doing for the money a marketer is paying?

              -Mike
              So, you're basically saying that you don't see writing as a real service? Just stringing a bunch of words together?

              If that's the case, then I can see why you think it should only cost $5.

              However, if everything is already laid out, then why not just drum up the article yourself? If it's that easy, that is.

              Writing - good writing, that is - is as much work and as much an art as design. I'm sorry that you think we writers are so expendable. With this kind of mentality, it's easy to see why the OP was asked to create an original article for a buck.
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              • Profile picture of the author LittleMike
                Originally Posted by KellyK View Post

                So, you're basically saying that you don't see writing as a real service? Just stringing a bunch of words together?

                If that's the case, then I can see why you think it should only cost $5.

                However, if everything is already laid out, then why not just drum up the article yourself? If it's that easy, that is.

                Writing - good writing, that is - is as much work and as much an art as design. I'm sorry that you think we writers are so expendable. With this kind of mentality, it's easy to see why the OP was asked to create an original article for a buck.
                I love how you writers love to twist a person's word around to be victimized. I see that a lot here. I didn't say I don't see writing as a real service, now did I?

                If I asked you to write me a romance novel, is that the same thing as writing me a book report? I think we all know what the answer here is.

                It's clear that certain jobs require more effort than others. Writing an article for a blog ESPECIALLY when all the information has been handed to you on a silver platter does not take the same effort as doing all the research yourself. Period. So why would I pay the same kind of money?

                It's that kind of thinking that will always prompt these kinds of posts from the OP.
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            • Profile picture of the author Dan C. Rinnert
              Originally Posted by LittleMike View Post

              Dan I see your point, but I can't seem to agree with you. If the marketer does all of the legwork and hires the writer to basically just make it into one cohesive article, then why should he be charged $50 for an article (or $2,000 if you're saying it's the same work as a sales letter)?

              ...

              I guess my biggest problem trying to wrap my head around the price is what goes into creating a simple article. I can tell you first hand all the arduous work that goes into web design. Maybe it's my lack of knowledge on the subject, but I can see what actually goes into the process and understand the costs behind it and I can't do that with writing. If everything is already laid out for you, what are you doing for the money a marketer is paying?
              Okay, there's a website that I like (was pointed out in another thread here a few days ago). I'm thinking it should be easy for you to put together something very similar to it. After all, I've done the work for you by finding the site and showing what I'm looking for. You should be able to whip out something similar to it in no time. Here it is:

              Droid from Verizon Wireless

              Can you build a site for me like that? I have $5.
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              • Profile picture of the author LittleMike
                Originally Posted by Dan C. Rinnert View Post

                Okay, there's a website that I like (was pointed out in another thread here a few days ago). I'm thinking it should be easy for you to put together something very similar to it. After all, I've done the work for you by finding the site and showing what I'm looking for. You should be able to whip out something similar to it in no time. Here it is:

                Droid from Verizon Wireless

                Can you build a site for me like that? I have $5.
                Being snarky does not make you right, Dan.

                Giving me a website and saying duplicate it is a hell of a lot more vague than:

                Okay here are my keywords
                I want the article to cover these topics
                Here are links that cover every one of those topics
                The article should be between 250 to 500 words

                So all of the above should take you, what, 15-20 minutes? Whereas it would take countless hours to recreate the Droid site? Come on. You're comparing apples to oranges and you know it. Typical.
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                • Profile picture of the author Dan C. Rinnert
                  Originally Posted by LittleMike View Post

                  Being snarky does not make you right, Dan.

                  Giving me a website and saying duplicate it is a hell of a lot more vague than:
                  How is it vague? I'm showing you exactly what I'm looking for. You have the design I'm looking for. You have the colors and the layout. I am giving you everything on a silver platter. "Countless hours" to recreate it? C'mon. You should be able to whip that out in, what, 15-20 minutes? Just fire up Photoshop and Dreamweaver, do some jiggery pokery, and you're done!

                  Okay here are my keywords
                  I want the article to cover these topics
                  Here are links that cover every one of those topics
                  The article should be between 250 to 500 words

                  So all of the above should take you, what, 15-20 minutes? Whereas it would take countless hours to recreate the Droid site? Come on. You're comparing apples to oranges and you know it. Typical.
                  You're entirely missing the point. What I have described is your mindset towards writers, except that I have framed it from the angle of someone who has that mindset towards designers.

                  Basically, what you're expecting is that you can hand a writer a copy of The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn and 15-20 minutes later, the writer will have been able to not only read the book but also write, proofread and deliver a cogent review of the book.

                  That is not unlike telling a designer to "make me a website like this one" and expecting it done 15-20 minutes later.
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                  • Profile picture of the author LittleMike
                    Originally Posted by Dan C. Rinnert View Post

                    How is it vague? I'm showing you exactly what I'm looking for. You have the design I'm looking for. You have the colors and the layout. I am giving you everything on a silver platter. "Countless hours" to recreate it? C'mon. You should be able to whip that out in, what, 15-20 minutes? Just fire up Photoshop and Dreamweaver, do some jiggery pokery, and you're done!



                    You're entirely missing the point. What I have described is your mindset towards writers, except that I have framed it from the angle of someone who has that mindset towards designers.

                    Basically, what you're expecting is that you can hand a writer a copy of The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn and 15-20 minutes later, the writer will have been able to not only read the book but also write, proofread and deliver a cogent review of the book.

                    That is not unlike telling a designer to "make me a website like this one" and expecting it done 15-20 minutes later.
                    They are not the same thing. I am not just handing you a Twain novel and saying crank out a quality review in 20 minutes. I'm handing you essentially cliff notes and saying give me 250-500 words. How is that possibly the same thing? If you want to use your Huck Finn example, I'm putting hand written post-its on the important sections and telling you what to read, and which parts to piece together into a nice little package.

                    Again, maybe it's just because I don't understand exactly what goes into it, but I'm certainly not asking you to crank out an Oscar Wilde novel in 20 minutes.

                    Aren't I making the job easier by supplying all the relevant material that you need? I don't understand why that doesn't matter.
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                    • Profile picture of the author redrossero
                      I am not a writer, but I have a university degree. I understand that for a good article you need to know proper grammer and spelling in English, but also INTELLIGENCE. What I don't get it is why some people imply that non-english persons can notwrite a quality article is beyond me.
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                      • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
                        I've been watching the exchange between Dan Rinnert and LittleMike from a somewhat detached perspective. I think you could swap professions and come away with virtually the same argument.

                        Both put a higher value on the skill they've spent time and sweat building, while seeing what the other does as simple.

                        Originally Posted by redrossero View Post

                        I am not a writer, but I have a university degree. I understand that for a good article you need to know proper grammer and spelling in English, but also INTELLIGENCE. What I don't get it is why some people imply that non-english persons can not write a quality article is beyond me.
                        Part of the answer here is in the difficulty nailing down the definition of 'quality article'.

                        For many writers, quality means expressing complete thoughts with proper spelling and grammar. It means having the facts arranged in a way that the reader comes away having gained value.

                        For many of the marketers hiring cheap article writers, that definition can actually run counter to what they need. For an article marketer, a quality article has the right word count, contains the phrases they want to emphasize for search rankings, and passes Copyscape or another dupe-checker. It should give just enough vague information that a reader will click through and possibly purchase a product that promises more complete information. And it should do those jobs as cheaply as possible.

                        In many cases, the two viewpoints are totally antithetical to each other. So the arguments will continue as long as we choose to call both animals "articles"...
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                        • Profile picture of the author Dan C. Rinnert
                          Originally Posted by redrossero View Post

                          I am not a writer, but I have a university degree. I understand that for a good article you need to know proper grammer and spelling in English, but also INTELLIGENCE. What I don't get it is why some people imply that non-english persons can notwrite a quality article is beyond me.
                          The frog licked over the rock.

                          That sentence is grammatically correct, and the spelling is correct, yet it doesn't make too much sense.

                          The thing is that you also have to understand the ins and outs of a language, and know the proper words to use and so on. There are plenty of intelligent people that could not write a quality article in a second language. That's not because they are dumb but because they don't know a language well enough to compose a quality article. An article must make sense to a reader. It doesn't matter how intelligent you are; if you cannot get your point across to the reader, you are not a quality article writer.

                          Originally Posted by JohnMcCabe View Post

                          I've been watching the exchange between Dan Rinnert and LittleMike from a somewhat detached perspective. I think you could swap professions and come away with virtually the same argument.

                          Both put a higher value on the skill they've spent time and sweat building, while seeing what the other does as simple.
                          I know the work that goes into both. Actually, I do more website design and development work for clients than I do writing for clients. I'm just trying (and failing) to illustrate to LittleMike that his views on writers are equivalent to others' views of what he does. A lot more work goes into it than what it may appear from the outside.

                          In many cases, the two viewpoints are totally antithetical to each other. So the arguments will continue as long as we choose to call both animals "articles"...
                          The former is an article. The latter is, well, maybe we can just call them "compact reports attracting profits."
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                          • Profile picture of the author LittleMike
                            Originally Posted by Dan C. Rinnert View Post

                            The frog licked over the rock.

                            That sentence is grammatically correct, and the spelling is correct, yet it doesn't make too much sense.

                            The thing is that you also have to understand the ins and outs of a language, and know the proper words to use and so on. There are plenty of intelligent people that could not write a quality article in a second language. That's not because they are dumb but because they don't know a language well enough to compose a quality article. An article must make sense to a reader. It doesn't matter how intelligent you are; if you cannot get your point across to the reader, you are not a quality article writer.



                            I know the work that goes into both. Actually, I do more website design and development work for clients than I do writing for clients. I'm just trying (and failing) to illustrate to LittleMike that his views on writers are equivalent to others' views of what he does. A lot more work goes into it than what it may appear from the outside.



                            The former is an article. The latter is, well, maybe we can just call them "compact reports attracting profits."
                            Okay maybe I can put it to you this way. I'll use you hiring me as a web designer for example. You want to hire me to design a WordPress blog for you. You want to pay me $15/hour for it. Now you want to hire me to recreate Motorola's Droid site. You want to pay me $15/hour for it. The WordPress job I take. The Droid job, I tell you to go jump in a lake. There is a HUGE difference between the two jobs. Hiring a writer for *blog posts* should not cost that much because according to most of the writers here, it's a 20 minute job.

                            Same thing with the web design job. Setting up a WordPress blog is a cakewalk. I'd be out of my mind if I think I'm going to get $1,000's of dollars to set one up. Why is this so difficult for you to understand?
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                            • Profile picture of the author Dan C. Rinnert
                              Originally Posted by LittleMike View Post

                              Okay maybe I can put it to you this way. I'll use you hiring me as a web designer for example. You want to hire me to design a WordPress blog for you. You want to pay me $15/hour for it. Now you want to hire me to recreate Motorola's Droid site. You want to pay me $15/hour for it. The WordPress job I take. The Droid job, I tell you to go jump in a lake. There is a HUGE difference between the two jobs.
                              The WordPress job may take you under an hour; maybe the Droid job will take you 40 hours. Why will you accept $15/hour for the WordPress job but not $15/hour for the Droid job?
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                              • Profile picture of the author LittleMike
                                Originally Posted by Dan C. Rinnert View Post

                                The WordPress job may take you under an hour; maybe the Droid job will take you 40 hours. Why will you accept $15/hour for the WordPress job but not $15/hour for the Droid job?
                                Because in our examples we don't get paid by the hour, we get paid by the job. Saying $15/hour was a bad example on my part and not really what we were talking about. We were talking set dollar amounts, so a more accurate example would be say $15 bucks for both jobs. Which is significantly less than $15/hour for the Droid job versus the WordPress job.
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                                • Profile picture of the author Dan C. Rinnert
                                  Originally Posted by LittleMike View Post

                                  Because in our examples we don't get paid by the hour, we get paid by the job. Saying $15/hour was a bad example on my part and not really what we were talking about. We were talking set dollar amounts, so a more accurate example would be say $15 bucks for both jobs. Which is significantly less than $15/hour for the Droid job versus the WordPress job.
                                  Okay then. As you've gotten more efficient at doing web design and development work, have you lowered your prices?
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                                  • Profile picture of the author LittleMike
                                    Originally Posted by Dan C. Rinnert View Post

                                    Okay then. As you've gotten more efficient at doing web design and development work, have you lowered your prices?
                                    That's not an easy answer. I can say that I haven't raised my prices for certain things.

                                    For example. If you wanted me to recreate the Droid site, I wouldn't do it for $15/hour. I would probably do it for more. If you wanted me to do a WordPress blog, I would charge significantly less because the job isn't as difficult.

                                    Now here's the thing (and why I say it's not an easy answer). Because of my experience and growing skills. I don't take the easier jobs anymore. Why? Because my skills have grown beyond that. Maybe that's a little clearer.

                                    So taking that example to writing, I would still charge $5 for a blog post, but now I'm doing $2,000 sales letters (I don't, actually, this is just an example). However, even though I *would* charge $5 an article, I don't ever do the jobs because it's not worth my time to do them when I can make more writing sales letters. That doesn't mean I think I should charge $100 for a blog post to keep in line with my sales letter rate - they're too different animals.
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                                    • Profile picture of the author Dan C. Rinnert
                                      Originally Posted by LittleMike View Post

                                      That's not an easy answer. I can say that I haven't raised my prices for certain things.

                                      For example. If you wanted me to recreate the Droid site, I wouldn't do it for $15/hour. I would probably do it for more. If you wanted me to do a WordPress blog, I would charge significantly less because the job isn't as difficult.

                                      Now here's the thing (and why I say it's not an easy answer). Because of my experience and growing skills. I don't take the easier jobs anymore. Why? Because my skills have grown beyond that. Maybe that's a little clearer.

                                      So taking that example to writing, I would still charge $5 for a blog post, but now I'm doing $2,000 sales letters (I don't, actually, this is just an example). However, even though I *would* charge $5 an article, I don't ever do the jobs because it's not worth my time to do them when I can make more writing sales letters. That doesn't mean I think I should charge $100 for a blog post to keep in line with my sales letter rate - they're too different animals.
                                      So, experience adds value, right?

                                      Don't you think that a blog post written by a more experienced writer would be more valuable than one written by someone not as experienced?

                                      And, isn't "better" worth more, regardless of the actual time the writer spent on the blog post?

                                      What are your goals with the blog post?

                                      Is it to get more opt-ins? If so, isn't a blog post that gets you 100 opt-ins better than one that gets you 10?

                                      Is it to build backlinks? If so, isn't a blog post that gets 100 people linking back to you better than one that gets you 10?

                                      Is it to rank better in the search engines? If so, isn't a blog post that gets ranked higher better than one that stays on page 25?

                                      Do you think that all 500-word blog posts are equivalent in value? If Blogger A has a 25% visitor retention rate and Blogger B has a 10% visitor retention rate, whose 500-word blog posts are better? Or are they equal in value? If Blogger A can write a 500-word blog post in 20 minutes and Blogger B can write a 500-word blog post in 20 minutes, do you think they should both only get $5 for writing a blog post?
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                                      • Profile picture of the author LittleMike
                                        Originally Posted by Dan C. Rinnert View Post

                                        So, experience adds value, right?

                                        Don't you think that a blog post written by a more experienced writer would be more valuable than one written by someone not as experienced?

                                        And, isn't "better" worth more, regardless of the actual time the writer spent on the blog post?

                                        What are your goals with the blog post?

                                        Is it to get more opt-ins? If so, isn't a blog post that gets you 100 opt-ins better than one that gets you 10?

                                        Is it to build backlinks? If so, isn't a blog post that gets 100 people linking back to you better than one that gets you 10?

                                        Is it to rank better in the search engines? If so, isn't a blog post that gets ranked higher better than one that stays on page 25?

                                        Do you think that all 500-word blog posts are equivalent in value? If Blogger A has a 25% visitor retention rate and Blogger B has a 10% visitor retention rate, whose 500-word blog posts are better? Or are they equal in value? If Blogger A can write a 500-word blog post in 20 minutes and Blogger B can write a 500-word blog post in 20 minutes, do you think they should both only get $5 for writing a blog post?
                                        That's where we disagree. I don't feel that there is a difference between good and great as far as results go. So no, it's not worth more at all because the results are the same. You can have a terrible blog post that turns readers off and that's where the $1 articles come into play. But I have yet to see conversion rates differ between a $5 article and a $50 article. Sales letters, absolutely. But not blog posts, no. Now do you see why I have my opinion? I understand what you're saying - better results beget a higher price tag. But what I'm not seeing is the better results, so no, I don't feel they should cost any more because I fail to see the higher value.
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                • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
                  Originally Posted by LittleMike View Post

                  So all of the above should take you, what, 15-20 minutes?
                  Wrong question.

                  What will having a quality article make you, over and above what a cheap article does?

                  It's not about how much time I spend on it. It's about how much money it puts in your pocket.
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                  • Profile picture of the author LittleMike
                    Originally Posted by CDarklock View Post

                    Wrong question.

                    What will having a quality article make you, over and above what a cheap article does?

                    It's not about how much time I spend on it. It's about how much money it puts in your pocket.
                    I completely disagree with that statement and I'll tell you why. There is monetary value and there is perceived value. If you sell me an article for $20 and I see by my metrics that it has resulted in 10 conversions that made me gross revenue of $1,000, does that mean the next article you sell me is going to cost me $1,000? Absolutely not. Because you can't base what you charge for an article on what you think that person is going to make on it.

                    Why is it that almost 65% of the American workforce are paid hourly wages? Because your worth as an employee is determined by TIME worked. Not what you produce. The company is valued by the product, not the cog in the corporate wheel.

                    Here's another interesting stat for you. The mean salary of a writer according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics is $48,640. That means your hourly rate is $23/hour. That means that blog post that took you 20 minutes to craft is worth $7.67.

                    Look, you're all freelance writers no matter how you scratch it and you can charge whatever you want. As such there will always be people that lowball and others that don't mind paying higher rates. But to say that you charge based on what your product is going to make *me* is crazy. What if I just wanted to frame it and put it on my wall? Does that mean it's free? Marketers put insane values on products all the time. Mike Filsaime charged what, $1997 for the Butterfly Marketing script when it was released in 2006. How do you think he determined its value? Personally I think he pulled the number out of a hat, because as useful as it can be, I don't think it's anywhere near that. Then again, maybe he decided on the value by determining what it could potentially make the customer. But you already know how I feel about that.

                    -Mike
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                    • Profile picture of the author tryinhere
                      Originally Posted by LittleMike View Post

                      I completely disagree with that statement and I'll tell you why. There is monetary value and there is perceived value. If you sell me an article for $20 and I see by my metrics that it has resulted in 10 conversions that made me gross revenue of $1,000, does that mean the next article you sell me is going to cost me $1,000? Absolutely not. Because you can't base what you charge for an article on what you think that person is going to make on it.-Mike
                      Well i don't know how you skin the cat in writer land, as i do not live there, but i am in buyer land and i do buy the DR CDarklock's ar tickle me's and even though he has had a increase in costs recently i still took another article without question, ( and i will take his work every time even with another price increase ) why because i save money by spending more on his quality work, that simple

                      I know when i place one of his articles on my site that i will fire a perfect Q 10 score within days on adwords for the chosen keywords

                      That being said it only takes me days to recoup my money in ad prices alone.

                      From there the sums with having your ad pump out day in day out at number one position at a low cost make paying for quality the best decision every time.

                      that being said from facts not fiction it backs this statement 100%
                      What will having a quality article make you, over and above what a cheap article does?
                      It would wrong for a person to think that by spending a few $ on a low quality article is saving money.
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                      • Profile picture of the author LittleMike
                        Originally Posted by tryinhere View Post

                        Well i don't know how you skin the cat in writer land, as i do not live there, but i am in buyer land and i do buy the DR CDarklock's ar tickle me's and even though he has had a increase in costs recently i still took another article without question, ( and i will take his work every time even with another price increase ) why because i save money by spending more on his quality work, that simple

                        I know when i place one of his articles on my site that i will fire a perfect Q 10 score within days on adwords for the chosen keywords

                        That being said it only takes me days to recoup my money in ad prices alone.

                        From there the sums with having your ad pump out day in day out at number one position at a low cost make paying for quality the best decision every time.

                        that being said from facts not fiction it backs this statement 100%

                        It would wrong for a person to think that by spending a few $ on a low quality article is saving money.
                        Well then you can say you're not really buying an article, you're *investing* in his writing. Subtle difference, but it's there nonetheless.

                        But I wasn't challenging CDarklock's writing skill (I've never read anything he's written so I can't be one to judge). I was challenging a pricing scheme based on the results it gives the buyer. In my experience, a blog post is a blog post. This is not always the case, of course, and your mileage may vary.
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                        • Profile picture of the author tryinhere
                          Originally Posted by LittleMike View Post

                          Well then you can say you're not really buying an article, you're *investing* in his writing. Subtle difference, but it's there nonetheless.
                          yep i think you have it worked out, anyone can buy an article, but it is better to invest in a good article, yes that works and makes cents.
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                          • Profile picture of the author LittleMike
                            Originally Posted by tryinhere View Post

                            yep i think you have it worked out, anyone can buy an article, but it is better to invest in a good article, yes that works and makes cents.
                            In your case that may be worth more money. In mine it is not. Like Bev said earlier - in the IM niche it's not nearly as important to have a well crafted article. In other niches (non-IM) it may very well be. To am IMer though, paying $50 an article is unnecessary because the results they see are no greater with a superbly crafted article versus a mediocre one.
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                    • Profile picture of the author Dan C. Rinnert
                      Originally Posted by LittleMike View Post

                      That's where we disagree. I don't feel that there is a difference between good and great as far as results go. So no, it's not worth more at all because the results are the same. You can have a terrible blog post that turns readers off and that's where the $1 articles come into play. But I have yet to see conversion rates differ between a $5 article and a $50 article. Sales letters, absolutely. But not blog posts, no. Now do you see why I have my opinion? I understand what you're saying - better results beget a higher price tag. But what I'm not seeing is the better results, so no, I don't feel they should cost any more because I fail to see the higher value.
                      Well, I have seen better results with the more expensive articles. I have seen the more expensive articles reach and stay on the first page of Google for years.

                      Some marketers might spend $100 to buy 20 $5 articles, and still get beat by a single article that perhaps cost $50. So, they can pat themselves on the back thinking they got a bunch of articles when they're really shooting themselves in the foot by not buying quality.

                      For example, I have one site that has content for which I paid about $6/article. Another site has articles for which I paid probably $35-$50/article. The second site gets about 7.5 times more traffic than the first site.

                      The $6/article site does make 3x more money in AdSense, but the $35-$50/article site generates a whole heck of a lot more total income.

                      Your results may vary, of course, but I know which group of writers I will stick with.

                      Originally Posted by LittleMike View Post

                      Back to the original topic then, it sounds to me that what I had said is accurate then - for an IMer, having a writer charge $50 for an article is ridiculous and that getting $5 for a blog post is perfectly reasonable.
                      And how often do we see marketers come in here and complain that Google changed their algorithm and their pages aren't ranking high any more? How often do we see them complain their writers have vanished? Maybe it's because they're looking for the cheapest "articles" they can find, and those articles do not have long term value.

                      Originally Posted by LittleMike View Post

                      Why is it that almost 65% of the American workforce are paid hourly wages? Because your worth as an employee is determined by TIME worked. Not what you produce. The company is valued by the product, not the cog in the corporate wheel.
                      Those people are paid for their labor, or anticipated labor, during their working hours, and not solely on the time itself. That is, they don't get paid just for showing up. They have to work; they have to meet certain expectations of productivity.

                      Let's say they make toys. Once a toy is sold, that's it. Done. End of story. The company doesn't make any more money off that specific toy. Let's say that the toy costs $5 in terms of labor and $5 in materials. The company sells that toy for $15. The worker made $5 and the company made $5. That's it. The company will not make another dime off that toy. Neither will the worker.

                      On the other hand, people who create intellectual property are different. Once an article is written, it can be used again and again. Thus, the writer might work for an hour, but that hour's worth of work can produce, and continue to produce, more recurring income for the company than the worker who made a physical product that is sold once.
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                      • Profile picture of the author LittleMike
                        Originally Posted by Dan C. Rinnert View Post

                        Well, I have seen better results with the more expensive articles. I have seen the more expensive articles reach and stay on the first page of Google for years.

                        Some marketers might spend $100 to buy 20 $5 articles, and still get beat by a single article that perhaps cost $50. So, they can pat themselves on the back thinking they got a bunch of articles when they're really shooting themselves in the foot by not buying quality.
                        Really? A single article? I didn't realize Google's algorithm was so sensitive that a single article toppled the leader from first page. Is that why Facebook is 2nd today instead of Google? I guess everyone is too busy playing Farmville. Sorry guys, if you had just posted one more article, big G wouldn't have taken the lead!

                        Of course I'm being snarky, but that's only because that statement is ridiculous. There is no way in hell that one article changed a website's ranking. The internet is too much of an entity in flux for that to happen. Sites jump around a couple of spots constantly. And I guarantee it's not because of one-upmanship like that.

                        Originally Posted by Dan C. Rinnert View Post

                        For example, I have one site that has content for which I paid about $6/article. Another site has articles for which I paid probably $35-$50/article. The second site gets about 7.5 times more traffic than the first site.

                        The $6/article site does make 3x more money in AdSense, but the $35-$50/article site generates a whole heck of a lot more total income.

                        Your results may vary, of course, but I know which group of writers I will stick with.

                        And that had absolutely nothing to do with the niche, how many searches are performed per day on the keywords you optimized for, how many backlinks each site has, how many authority backlinks each site has, forms of paid and non-paid advertisement, or even the design of the site itself even? Again there are a slew of variables involved in traffic that would explain the variance in traffic far better than "oh well it had better articles on it." Unless the two sites were exactly the same except for the articles, then your theory is full of holes.


                        Originally Posted by Dan C. Rinnert View Post

                        And how often do we see marketers come in here and complain that Google changed their algorithm and their pages aren't ranking high any more?
                        And how many of them are blaming it on their articles being written by some guy in the Philippines for $1/article or a US native for $100? None. I have yet to see a single person complain that they are no longer ranking because they paid less for a mediocre article versus some fine crafted work that they paid as much as an iPod for.


                        Originally Posted by Dan C. Rinnert View Post

                        How often do we see them complain their writers have vanished? Maybe it's because they're looking for the cheapest "articles" they can find, and those articles do not have long term value.
                        Again, I have never seen that either. But again, if you're paying $1 an article for something that's barely in English, I wouldn't be surprised. Funny enough, I still see a bunch of writers that are looking to do $5 articles, though. And they're not afraid to advertise. The ones that charge $50 an article don't like to advertise their prices, though. I always found that to be funny.


                        Originally Posted by Dan C. Rinnert View Post

                        Those people are paid for their labor, or anticipated labor, during their working hours, and not solely on the time itself. That is, they don't get paid just for showing up. They have to work; they have to meet certain expectations of productivity.
                        Oh so 65% of America is working the full 8 hours a day (minus their breaks) every day, 40 hours a week? Wow, I guess Facebook's millions of site visitors are from the unemployed, right? Absolutely not. People are paid for their time. Yes some jobs require you to put in a good hard 8 hours work every day, but they are the minority. At my J.O.B, if there's nothing to do, I sit at my desk and watch the paint peel. Either that or I work on long term projects, or I make up something to do just so I'm not bored. I get paid to be there in case something goes wrong. And I'm hourly. And there are about 150,000 other people at my job that do the same.

                        The point is this: You are paid for your time as an employee. If you don't produce, that means you get fired. If you do a mediocre job, you still get paid the same amount of money your position warrants.


                        Originally Posted by Dan C. Rinnert View Post

                        Let's say they make toys. Once a toy is sold, that's it. Done. End of story. The company doesn't make any more money off that specific toy. Let's say that the toy costs $5 in terms of labor and $5 in materials. The company sells that toy for $15. The worker made $5 and the company made $5. That's it. The company will not make another dime off that toy. Neither will the worker.

                        On the other hand, people who create intellectual property are different. Once an article is written, it can be used again and again. Thus, the writer might work for an hour, but that hour's worth of work can produce, and continue to produce, more recurring income for the company than the worker who made a physical product that is sold once.
                        The worker gets paid at their hourly rate. If that toy doesn't sell at all, the worker still gets paid. If the toy sold well, he still gets paid his hourly rate. But I understand what you're saying and I still disagree. A mediocre article can have the same longevity as a great article for a fraction of the price. You're taking the example of a produced goods industry and comparing it to an intellectual property business when they are two separate things. The knockoff Rolex the guy tried to sell me in Times Square still tells the time just as well as the real thing. But comparing like things, the guy that wrote the pilot for The Office didn't start out making the money he makes now. Neither did the guy who wrote CSI. Was the quality of their writing any different then it is now? No, probably not. But they became *known* for what they did and it raised their quote. That is called branding and has absolutely nothing to do with quality of writing and all about marketing.
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                        • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
                          Originally Posted by LittleMike View Post

                          I didn't realize Google's algorithm was so sensitive that a single article toppled the leader from first page.
                          There's a point in certain conversations when you suddenly realise "wow, this person is so absolutely clueless, it is just a complete waste of time to try and explain anything."

                          We have just reached that point in this conversation.

                          Thanks for playing, Mike. Run along, now.
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                          "The Golden Town is the Golden Town no longer. They have sold their pillars for brass and their temples for money, they have made coins out of their golden doors. It is become a dark town full of trouble, there is no ease in its streets, beauty has left it and the old songs are gone." - Lord Dunsany, The Messengers
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                          • Profile picture of the author LittleMike
                            Originally Posted by CDarklock View Post

                            There's a point in certain conversations when you suddenly realise "wow, this person is so absolutely clueless, it is just a complete waste of time to try and explain anything."

                            We have just reached that point in this conversation.

                            Thanks for playing, Mike. Run along, now.
                            So you're trying to tell me that one article can make a difference? A *single* article? That's preposterous.
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                            • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
                              Originally Posted by LittleMike View Post

                              So you're trying to tell me that one article can make a difference? A *single* article? That's preposterous.
                              Really?

                              Joel Zander - EzineArticles.com Expert Author

                              One article.

                              Click through and scroll down.

                              "This article has been viewed 3,467 time(s)."

                              That's slightly over ten views per day, on the average.

                              Does that count as a difference?
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                              "The Golden Town is the Golden Town no longer. They have sold their pillars for brass and their temples for money, they have made coins out of their golden doors. It is become a dark town full of trouble, there is no ease in its streets, beauty has left it and the old songs are gone." - Lord Dunsany, The Messengers
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                              • Profile picture of the author LittleMike
                                Originally Posted by CDarklock View Post

                                Really?

                                Joel Zander - EzineArticles.com Expert Author

                                One article.

                                Click through and scroll down.

                                "This article has been viewed 3,467 time(s)."

                                That's slightly over ten views per day, on the average.

                                Does that count as a difference?
                                We're talking about two entirely different things. I'm talking about in the SERPs. That's what Dan was talking about. I can understand that you can get more traffic from a quality article. But I was talking about a blog post, not an article on a separate site. One article on a separate site also gives an additional backlink and other benefits as well, but that's not what I was talking about.

                                Dan was saying one article can topple a ranking and with so many other factors that go into ranking, there is no way that can be true.
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                                • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
                                  Originally Posted by LittleMike View Post

                                  We're talking about two entirely different things. I'm talking about in the SERPs.
                                  Go look up "xna sandwich" on Google.

                                  I have the top two results for that query. One of them is an old post on my XNA blog. One of them is the same post in the archive of that blog. (Duplicate content penalty, anyone?)

                                  If I didn't write that one article, would my site rank for that query?
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                                  • Profile picture of the author LittleMike
                                    Originally Posted by CDarklock View Post

                                    Go look up "xna sandwich" on Google.

                                    I have the top two results for that query. One of them is an old post on my XNA blog. One of them is the same post in the archive of that blog. (Duplicate content penalty, anyone?)

                                    If I didn't write that one article, would my site rank for that query?
                                    I still don't understand. How does this prove that a quality article would allow you to rank better? There are only 104,000 results for broad on that term and 0 for phrase. That domain is also 12 years old. Isn't that why keyword elite.com ranks for so many phrases? Because domain age most certainly factors into rankings. I'm not discounting that without that article you wouldn't rank for that term, but again, we're talking about two different things. That xna sandwich article in clearly not talking about an "xna sandwich" yet it ranks top. Isn't that the same thing as a poorly written article being that you were not even targeting that term?
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                                    • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
                                      Originally Posted by LittleMike View Post

                                      I still don't understand. How does this prove that a quality article would allow you to rank better?
                                      It doesn't. It proves that a single article DOES make a difference in the SERPs, which you just said it didn't.

                                      Hey, I have a great idea. Make one simple statement that sums up your position, and I'll stomp on it because you have no damn clue what you're saying. Then you can't keep changing your argument. Sound good?
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                                      • Profile picture of the author LittleMike
                                        Originally Posted by CDarklock View Post

                                        It doesn't. It proves that a single article DOES make a difference in the SERPs, which you just said it didn't.

                                        Hey, I have a great idea. Make one simple statement that sums up your position, and I'll stomp on it because you have no damn clue what you're saying. Then you can't keep changing your argument. Sound good?
                                        Go back and re-read what I said. I didn't say a single article makes a difference. Dan and I were debating how a $50 article versus a $5 article makes a difference. He said that one single article can topple a ranking (in regards to) using a $50 article versus a $5. I said that can't be true.

                                        Go ahead and stomp all you want. If you want to compare e-penises, you win. Internet bravado is not my thing. I asked a very simple question. Just because you didn't like it doesn't mean there's anything wrong with the question.
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                    • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
                      Originally Posted by LittleMike View Post

                      I completely disagree with that statement and I'll tell you why.
                      Because you've got it backwards. I don't tell you what I think my article is worth to you. I tell you what my article costs. Then you decide whether it's worth it.

                      When I say "this article will be $100," what I'm really saying is "if you don't expect to make well over $100 with this article, don't buy it."

                      That rather alters the kinds of clients I get. Whereas my early clients were blog farmers and AdSense jockeys, raising my prices led me to a crop of clients who drove affiliate traffic from EZA, and raising them further took me to people working on authority sites and info products.

                      I've actually seen some of my articles sold as WSOs. Try that with a $5 article.
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                      • Profile picture of the author LittleMike
                        Originally Posted by CDarklock View Post

                        Because you've got it backwards. I don't tell you what I think my article is worth to you. I tell you what my article costs. Then you decide whether it's worth it.

                        When I say "this article will be $100," what I'm really saying is "if you don't expect to make well over $100 with this article, don't buy it."

                        That rather alters the kinds of clients I get. Whereas my early clients were blog farmers and AdSense jockeys, raising my prices led me to a crop of clients who drove affiliate traffic from EZA, and raising them further took me to people working on authority sites and info products.

                        I've actually seen some of my articles sold as WSOs. Try that with a $5 article.
                        Put that way makes a lot more sense. However, it doesn't say anything about quality of your work (which may be spectacular, as I've said, I never read anything of yours). What it does say, though, is that you are targeting a different market. A market that is willing to pay more for your blog posts because it is of a higher value to them. The point of this entire thread was that there is a place for $5 articles and a place for $50 ones. I have no need for a guy that can crank out the next A Tale of Two Cities so I would not pay $100 for an article. If I was the owner of ZDNet, I would probably pay a hell of a lot more than $100 for a quality article. The same job is required, but the quality is wholly different.
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        • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
          Originally Posted by LittleMike View Post

          Personally I think $50 for a 300-500 word article is ludicrous. Unless I just said, "Here's the keywords I want targeted, go!"
          That's pretty much what my average client says. My usual order looks like this:

          five articles, 400-600 words

          (keywords)
          (keywords)
          (keywords)
          (keywords)
          (keywords)
          Sometimes they send a title. Sometimes they tell me what product they're marketing. But in general? That's it.

          And here's the funny part. If you send me a description of what you want covered and how? It doesn't take any less time or effort. I still have to work just as hard, and it still takes just as long. That legwork you're doing is not particularly difficult. Most competent writers can do it just as well as you can in a minute or three.
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          • Profile picture of the author LittleMike
            Originally Posted by CDarklock View Post

            That's pretty much what my average client says. My usual order looks like this:



            Sometimes they send a title. Sometimes they tell me what product they're marketing. But in general? That's it.

            And here's the funny part. If you send me a description of what you want covered and how? It doesn't take any less time or effort. I still have to work just as hard, and it still takes just as long. That legwork you're doing is not particularly difficult. Most competent writers can do it just as well as you can in a minute or three.
            If that's what your average order looks like than I would fully support your right to claim a higher price tag for the article. You're doing a hell of a lot more work.

            I disagree that the legwork is easy. That's why writers are writers and marketers are marketers. Of course there are many that are both, but if the marketer does all the research (what a marketer does) and the writer is just asked to do what they do (write), then why would a marketer pay a writer to do the job he's supposed to do himself?

            If I go to an auto repair shop for an oil change and I bring them 4 quarts of oil and a filter, should they charge me the same price as someone that just drives their car over and says do it?

            -Mike
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  • Profile picture of the author MakeMoneyTutor
    Well that's Possible. If you go on GAF there are many writers who are ready to right at $1 for per 350 words. So, if you want any go and find there. US & UK rates are high but some other Countries are available at this rates but may be you get some low quality but unique articles.
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  • Profile picture of the author kevinfar
    just move on.. and stick to something that make you actually want to research and write an article.
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  • Profile picture of the author jkovats
    At least you were offered something. I have found article's I wrote hosted on someone else's blog! At least the left me credit as the offer and the back links within the article
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  • Profile picture of the author GeorgR.
    Originally Posted by monopuff View Post

    Is this common ? I was not sure if I should be offended or just laugh

    I try and present my service as offering well researched, quality articles. I'm a college graduate born and raised in the U.S. It's just not feasible ..
    I can make more money picking up loose change for an hour..


    Since I'm just getting into this industry I'm wondering if any of you seasoned article writers know how to handle things like this.. Do you get low balled a lot ?
    I pay $3.75 sometimes and already think i am a cheap *******....$1 for an article and $0.25 is an UTTER joke..if have not ever seen such low rates on any webmaster forum. Even if i were to live in bangladesh i would charge more.
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  • Profile picture of the author TrigMan
    Wow.... $1 per article is very very low in my opinion. Even if it was only a 300 word article for a blog, that doesn't begin to cover any research done on your part, initial draft, keyword implementation, sound grammar, editing of initial draft, sending final draft, making changes as necessary, etc.

    As a freelance writer you have to include these things since the person buying doesn't always know what you do and how you do it. Time is money, even time preparing to "write". Always stick to your guns on your base price, even when just starting out.

    It's not even nearly minimum wage for the U.S.

    Just my thoughts,

    -TrigMan
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  • Profile picture of the author braver55b
    There are places online where you can get unique articles written for a dollar that are acceptable by ezinearticles, (mostly non-US);but I do think perhaps that was just a negotiating tactic to see if he can get a better offer once your raise a counter offer.
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  • Profile picture of the author Marian Berghes
    There is a saying that goes like this
    "Either work for free or for full price. Never cheap"
    and I will stand by it in everything I do in my online experiences and "adventures".

    I understand the whole concept of building a portfolio and all that, but come on, $1?

    And why would you pay $50 for an article? If you knew that the article was going to bring you double or triple would you pay?

    And also lets not forget that there will always be people asking premium price...even if the service is the same, they will just present themselves better and ask for a much more larger fee.

    This is exactly what happens with designers...you have people making wordpress themes or logos for like $100 and then you have the quality&premium ones that charge $2000+ for a wordpress theme or a logo...and honestly in many of the cases I would gladly pay that price.
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  • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
    Originally Posted by monopuff View Post

    Is this common ? I was not sure if I should be offended or just laugh

    I try and present my service as offering well researched, quality articles. I'm a college graduate born and raised in the U.S. It's just not feasible ..
    I can make more money picking up loose change for an hour..


    Since I'm just getting into this industry I'm wondering if any of you seasoned article writers know how to handle things like this.. Do you get low balled a lot ?
    I was all set to tell you the same thing the others told you - laugh it off and move on. Then I looked at the prices you have posted at the link in your sig...

    My friend, that offer was low but it wasn't that outrageous in comparison to your posted prices.

    If you want to be taken seriously, you need to at least triple your posted prices. Otherwise, you're going to keep getting lowballed.

    If you feel you need to discount to get your foot in the door, publish realistic prices and then offer a limited time/number of packages.

    Even better is the suggestion to offer free work to someone credible who can provide references/testimonials.

    If you offer flea market prices, expect flea market bids...
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  • Profile picture of the author BigRedNotebook
    When I get low offers (personally or through Ad Astra Traffic), I use it as an educational opportunity.

    I send off an email that explains why I/we can't do the job for the money offered, explain what the person is likely to actually get at those prices and then compare that the results their likely to experience by dealing with better providers.

    9/10 times, that doesn't do any good. However, I'm able to convert low-ballers into good customers occasionally. If you know *why* you're worth more, it's an opportunity to make a good pitch and to help cut through some of the "buy your articles from $1 providers" bull**** that permeates the IM world.
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  • Profile picture of the author michellegreen
    I won't get out of bed for less than $20 for an original article and in fact, will be getting up tomorrow to write one for which I'm being paid $100.

    There are plenty of quality writers out there but sometimes (note I have said "sometimes") you really do get what you pay for...
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  • Profile picture of the author grandstar
    Don't take it! Its not worth it! You can make more money by writing articles and placing them in EZA.

    Try craigslist. You could get some nice jobs
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  • Profile picture of the author pheonix44
    This reminds me of a thread I wrote a while back. You can see it here. I think when it is all said and done you simply have to upgrade yourself. Look around and do all you can to increase the value of the service you offer.
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  • Profile picture of the author Silas Hart
    Originally Posted by monopuff View Post

    Is this common ? I was not sure if I should be offended or just laugh

    I try and present my service as offering well researched, quality articles. I'm a college graduate born and raised in the U.S. It's just not feasible ..
    I can make more money picking up loose change for an hour..


    Since I'm just getting into this industry I'm wondering if any of you seasoned article writers know how to handle things like this.. Do you get low balled a lot ?
    I have paid a couple people in my local area to write articles for $1.00 . I usually get a couple calls, I do a "test" article where after I explain to them what I want and what the guidelines are, they get excited and crank out two or three... and then just stop, lol. I have a couple friends in China, and they won't even write a 300-500 article for $1.00 (but that's mostly because speaking and writing in English offers more opportunities for them)
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  • Profile picture of the author Cardsearch
    I wouldn't take less than $10. I can't understand why other skills get a good wage while writers are at the bottom of the barrel.
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    • Profile picture of the author GeorgR.
      Originally Posted by Cardsearch View Post

      I wouldn't take less than $10. I can't understand why other skills get a good wage while writers are at the bottom of the barrel.
      I am writer/translator myself, but i also *purchase* articles.

      You are indeed right, but an average ezine quality article 300 words +/- does take a good writer max 10-15 mins.

      Even if we take $2 per article (which would still be way too cheap)....someone could make $8/hr...which is already way more what most retail/mcdonald people make in the states.

      I think this thread has no "healthy" balance....$1/$2 is as much retarded as charging $4/word. (Or charging $100s for a "primitive" ezine/blog article)

      And, by the way....imagine you pay someone in pakistan $2 or $3 per article...and then even with those "cheap" articles for $2 he is making more than MANY people in the states which have a "normal" job. As said, i am not supporting "slave labor" either...but you need to see it in relationship, articles/hour, SIMPLE articles or even rewrites. We're not talking about new scientific thesis about wormholes and quantum physics
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      • Profile picture of the author LittleMike
        Originally Posted by GeorgR. View Post

        I am writer/translator myself, but i also *purchase* articles.

        You are indeed right, but an average ezine quality article 300 words +/- does take a good writer max 10-15 mins.

        Even if we take $2 per article (which would still be way too cheap)....someone could make $8/hr...which is already way more what most retail/mcdonald people make in the states.

        I think this thread has no "healthy" balance....$1/$2 is as much retarded as charging $4/word. (Or charging $100s for a "primitive" ezine/blog article)

        And, by the way....imagine you pay someone in pakistan $2 or $3 per article...and then even with those "cheap" articles for $2 he is making more than MANY people in the states which have a "normal" job. As said, i am not supporting "slave labor" either...but you need to see it in relationship, articles/hour, SIMPLE articles or even rewrites. We're not talking about new scientific thesis about wormholes and quantum physics
        George, you seem to understand my viewpoint. Is $5 an article a fair price? It seems that is the minority opinion here at WF. Taking your (and my) point of view - at $5/article and 20 minutes a piece, that's $15/hour. I wouldn't say that's a bad wage at all!
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        • Profile picture of the author Dan C. Rinnert
          Originally Posted by LittleMike View Post

          Aren't I making the job easier by supplying all the relevant material that you need? I don't understand why that doesn't matter.
          How is that any different from showing you a website and asking you to duplicate it? All the relevant material is right there.

          Originally Posted by LittleMike View Post

          George, you seem to understand my viewpoint. Is $5 an article a fair price? It seems that is the minority opinion here at WF. Taking your (and my) point of view - at $5/article and 20 minutes a piece, that's $15/hour. I wouldn't say that's a bad wage at all!
          Do you build websites for $15 an hour?
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        • Profile picture of the author GeorgR.
          Originally Posted by LittleMike View Post

          George, you seem to understand my viewpoint. Is $5 an article a fair price? It seems that is the minority opinion here at WF. Taking your (and my) point of view - at $5/article and 20 minutes a piece, that's $15/hour. I wouldn't say that's a bad wage at all!
          Mike, $5 is a common rate i see on many webmaster forums for 400-500ish wds articles for articles directories, yes.
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          • Profile picture of the author LittleMike
            Originally Posted by GeorgR. View Post

            Mike, $5 is a common rate i see on many webmaster forums for 400-500ish wds articles for articles directories, yes.
            Thanks, Georg. I had a feeling it might be.
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            • Profile picture of the author GeorgR.
              Originally Posted by LittleMike View Post

              Thanks, Georg. I had a feeling it might be.
              It also depends WHERE you want to sell

              Example: Offering your services on a forum like DP you might have troubles going higher...(also depending on your article's quality).....here on W you might have better chances.

              Key would be to gain some rep as a good, quality writer and get a solid base of customers.

              I am just "amazed" how many here on the forums *seem* to be willing to pay an awesome lot for articles - but i can tell you that i once had a article writing WSO (i think i charged $6 or $7) and i got no single one interested.

              The point is also that people who have a demand and constantly buy articles usually know the current going rates.
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              • Profile picture of the author LittleMike
                Originally Posted by GeorgR. View Post

                It also depends WHERE you want to sell

                Example: Offering your services on a forum like DP you might have troubles going higher...(also depending on your article's quality).....here on W you might have better chances.

                Key would be to gain some rep as a good, quality writer and get a solid base of customers.

                I am just "amazed" how many here on the forums *seem* to be willing to pay an awesome lot for articles - but i can tell you that i once had a article writing WSO (i think i charged $6 or $7) and i got no single one interested.

                The point is also that people who have a demand and constantly buy articles usually know the current going rates.
                Well to be honest, Georg, from what I see on here specifically, it's the writers that are saying they *should* be able to get upwards of $50/article whereas the marketers are the ones that are saying $5. $6 or $7 is still reasonable to me, though, so I'm not sure why you didn't get any bites.
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  • Profile picture of the author J Bold
    It's because the internet is international. There are people in Philippines and India who would work for this, but even some of them would not accept that.

    Just laugh at it and tell it as a funny story. Not much else to do, really.
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  • Profile picture of the author davidofderbyshire
    way too low
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  • Profile picture of the author Geekybizness
    I guess, its the supply and demand curve that is making all this happen. The supply has soared to higher levels and people wanting articles are kinda taking it lightly and think, to pay less is to be ahead of the game. Its better we writers create our own niche to sell articles at a price they deserve.
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    • Profile picture of the author LittleMike
      Originally Posted by Geekybizness View Post

      I guess, its the supply and demand curve that is making all this happen. The supply has soared to higher levels and people wanting articles are kinda taking it lightly and think, to pay less is to be ahead of the game. Its better we writers create our own niche to sell articles at a price they deserve.
      I'm not sure that's true here. Otherwise there would be less people saying they won't do an article for less than $25 each and they are in abundance on here.
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  • Profile picture of the author Bev Clement
    It depends on the blog post and how it is written. For most marketers they only want something added to their site, and as long as it brings in the readers who click to buy they don't care.

    But, those outside of IM want more from their blog posts and they will pay higher rates for them.

    Find the right market and you can and will get paid higher rates.
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    • Profile picture of the author LittleMike
      Originally Posted by Bev Clement View Post

      It depends on the blog post and how it is written. For most marketers they only want something added to their site, and as long as it brings in the readers who click to buy they don't care.

      But, those outside of IM want more from their blog posts and they will pay higher rates for them.

      Find the right market and you can and will get paid higher rates.
      Bev that makes more sense to me than a generalization that good writers demand higher pay for the same product. Thank you for that.

      I have a related question, though. Why would someone want more out of a blog post (and subsequently pay more for a writer) than what an IMer would want? Isn't the goal the same thing? To get eyeballs in front of offers, increase ranking in the SERPS, etc?

      Alternatively, if they love the topic, then why not write it themselves instead of hiring someone at all?
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      • Profile picture of the author Bev Clement
        Originally Posted by LittleMike View Post

        I have a related question, though. Why would someone want more out of a blog post (and subsequently pay more for a writer) than what an IMer would want? Isn't the goal the same thing? To get eyeballs in front of offers, increase ranking in the SERPS, etc?

        Alternatively, if they love the topic, then why not write it themselves instead of hiring someone at all?
        I don't have all the answers, can only say what I have observed. You need to stop thinking like an IMer for this one many businesses who want writers for their blog are not bothered with a click to a low end product. Some might not even have a product on their blog.

        Are they concerned about increase ranking in the SERPS? Again depends on where you rank in the SERPS, if you're on the first page and are happy with the position then that isn't the reason for it.

        Businesses which pay higher rates to bloggers love to write, but at times they want another voice to be heard. Or they don't have time to maintain the blog. There are a number of reasons.

        I gave a quote recently to someone who said, if it had been too low I wouldn't have considered it. I had someone ask me to write for their blog, and they told me I don't want your cheap IM prices, but your professional prices.

        People outside of IM have a different view than IMers generally. They don't think 1st page Google, they don't think each post has to sell something, and they don't want cheap for a lot of things, again it is something people involved in IM don't understand. It is part of their business model, and they are happy to pay for something different.

        Bev
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        • Profile picture of the author LittleMike
          Originally Posted by Bev Clement View Post

          I don't have all the answers, can only say what I have observed. You need to stop thinking like an IMer for this one many businesses who want writers for their blog are not bothered with a click to a low end product. Some might not even have a product on their blog.
          Haha. Maybe you're right. When I start making a full-time income from it, do you think I'll think less that way? I'm afraid the answer would probably be more :X Haha.

          Originally Posted by Bev Clement View Post

          People outside of IM have a different view than IMers generally. They don't think 1st page Google, they don't think each post has to sell something, and they don't want cheap for a lot of things, again it is something people involved in IM don't understand. It is part of their business model, and they are happy to pay for something different.
          Really? I've seen MUCH differently from my experience. Heck, you know about.com? They are hiring writers to pen articles on particular niches as well as maintain a blog about that niche and they are *incentivizing* 1st page Google results by paying you more per page hit. So if you're saying that people outside of IM don't care about 1st page Google (or at least they don't focus on it like an IMer does), then I would love to see who these people are. I believe you when you say it, but I have never seen nor heard anyone who wasn't driven to achieve first page rankings.

          Back to the original topic then, it sounds to me that what I had said is accurate then - for an IMer, having a writer charge $50 for an article is ridiculous and that getting $5 for a blog post is perfectly reasonable. If the writer thinks they're giving away their talents for free at $5 a pop then they're actually the problem - they're trying to sell their services to the wrong market. Either way $1 an article is too cheap. Not unless you want a broken English 250 word piece of drivel that will only hurt you in the long run. In that case, yes, you get what you pay for.
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          • Profile picture of the author Bev Clement
            Originally Posted by LittleMike View Post

            Haha. Maybe you're right. When I start making a full-time income from it, do you think I'll think less that way? I'm afraid the answer would probably be more :X Haha.
            Whatever you do, you will still be an IMer and will be looking at the basic IMers model for 1st page Google and converting article/blog post to a sale.


            Really? I've seen MUCH differently from my experience. Heck, you know about.com? They are hiring writers to pen articles on particular niches as well as maintain a blog about that niche and they are *incentivizing* 1st page Google results by paying you more per page hit. So if you're saying that people outside of IM don't care about 1st page Google (or at least they don't focus on it like an IMer does), then I would love to see who these people are. I believe you when you say it, but I have never seen nor heard anyone who wasn't driven to achieve first page rankings.
            There are so many businesses who are not thinking the way IMers are taught to think. They think far beyond that. Many of them already have the 1st page position on Google. Reason you might not have seen or heard of them, is because they are not on forums like this.
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    • Profile picture of the author cma01
      Originally Posted by Bev Clement View Post

      Find the right market and you can and will get paid higher rates.
      Exactly, and IM'ers aren't the right market for those higher rates in either writing or web design.

      I've done writing as part of an overall project for clients, but mainly I write for my own sites. Maybe I'm just slow, but it takes me a lot longer than 20 minutes to write a blog post that actually has meat to it. If it's just a little blurb . . . sure I can kick it out it 20 minutes.

      If you're just expecting someone to take other people's content and rewrite it into a new article, of course it's not going to take that long. I've done the chunk copywriting method and put an article out in 30 minutes, but even if I could do that consistently, I still wouldn't write for $5 an article. Working for barely above minimum wage doesn't excite me. I rather go wait tables . . . at least then i could get tips.

      But the articles that have proven to be the consistent traffic earners on my site year after year have been those that were interesting and had a unique spin or were a good resource for that particular topic. One article that I wrote four years ago is still the top viewed article on that particular site, month after month, year after year. Those types of articles take time to research and write. You can't write them in an hour, and sometimes not even in a day.

      If you think all writing is created equal (even blog posts), you've been spending too much time reading internet content. Go read real literature to cultivate an appreciation for the difference.

      As for web design, I once read a post on the Joomla forum by a guy who said he could set up a Joomla site for someone in a hour, which absolutely flabbergasted me. That was until I looked at one of the sites he set up. It was the most basic layout you could imagine. All he did was insert a header graphic and change the color of a couple of things in the stylesheet. His charged maybe a couple of hundred dollars to set up the site and thought there were people out there overcharging for their services.

      If HE charged more than what he was, yes it would be highway robbery. Personally, I wouldn't have wanted one of his sites for free. However, just because he put out garbage, it doesn't mean that everyone else does. I put time into my custom designs, from the design itself, to the configuration and set up. If someone wants to pay for my time and expertise, I'm more than happy to work with them. If not, they can go to one of the thousands of other designers out there and I'll work on one of my own projects.
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  • Profile picture of the author lowcostbrain
    Lol, 6 months ago I was offering $100 per original quality article and I barely found 3 people to write something professional. People are used to this price since most of the article writers out there are just spinning.
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    • Profile picture of the author Mo Faisal
      Originally Posted by lowcostbrain View Post

      Lol, 6 months ago I was offering $100 per original quality article and I barely found 3 people to write something professional. People are used to this price since most of the article writers out there are just spinning.
      Does this offer still stand?
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  • Profile picture of the author GeorgR.
    Bev,

    i have the strange feeling that your articles/writing are not the typical "ezine" articles...so maybe there's a problem comparing rates
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    • Profile picture of the author LittleMike
      Originally Posted by Bev Clement View Post

      Georg most likely, but I think it proves there are other options for people than writing for peanuts.
      I think you and Georg hit the nail on the head right here. The problem is that this is an IM forum. Marketers are looking for articles on the cheap for the purpose of marketing. Writers here *should* be using this site primarily for the IM niche. If you can get bigger money in other markets, I'm all for that. But people like the OP blasting marketers for asking for such a low price is unfounded. You get whatever the market is willing to pay. This market (as a whole) will not pay $3/word for a blog post and shouldn't. This is not the right market for that kind of work.
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  • Profile picture of the author Bev Clement
    I didn't say it was a blog post

    I disagree with you, there are a number of people on this forum who will pay far higher rates than the $5 per blog post. But, their expectation is totally different to the person who pays $5 or less for a post.

    There is a very good reason for writers to be in a marketing forum, and that is to learn how to become a marketer.
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    • Profile picture of the author LittleMike
      Originally Posted by Bev Clement View Post

      I didn't say it was a blog post
      Haha, I'm sure it wasn't, but you know what I mean

      Originally Posted by Bev Clement View Post

      I disagree with you, there are a number of people on this forum who will pay far higher rates than the $5 per blog post. But, their expectation is totally different to the person who pays $5 or less for a post.
      For a blog post that is not IM related though, like you said, correct? People here may pay it, but here is not where they should be looking for it, necessarily, as this is an IM forum


      Originally Posted by Bev Clement View Post

      There is a very good reason for writers to be in a marketing forum, and that is to learn how to become a marketer.
      Don't misunderstand me. I didn't say writers shouldn't be here. I said writers shouldn't be bitching that marketers only want to pay $5 for an article that will be used in the IM niche. As you said, IMers don't use articles the same way. The value of the articles isn't as high to an IMer as in the non-IM niche.
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  • Profile picture of the author michellegreen
    I have a friend who only works with offline clients and she won't write an article for less than $200.

    I won't write a blog post for less than $4 per 100 words and I know from my own perspective that if I had clients that were paying me $1 per article (NEVER going to happen - my time is worth much more than that!) and others paying $4 per 100 words, then I know who I'd be giving my preference to...logically...

    Remember too, that many writers have qualifications in specific areas. For example, I am able to demand a lot more per article on life coaching topics that require specific techniques to be written about because I am a qualified life coach. My clients are more than happy to pay more because they know that they'll get an article that's written by somebody who knows what they're talking about.

    It really all comes down to perceived value. Some people feel they're getting value at $1 per article, but somebody else (me included) is looking for much more than just price, but a particular style and of course quality of article. I'm more than happy to pay more as long as I'm getting what I want from my writer.
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  • Profile picture of the author Sean Ski
    Although freelance writing used to be profitable (it still is for well established individuals) it's pretty much slave wages for workers overseas at this point...
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    • Profile picture of the author michellegreen
      Originally Posted by Sean Ski View Post

      Although freelance writing used to be profitable (it still is for well established individuals) it's pretty much slave wages for workers overseas at this point...
      Yep I agree. If English isn't your first language you're not able to demand as much money. I get many of my jobs because I'm Australian and it's been a VERY profitable exercise too.
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    • Profile picture of the author cyberchick
      Originally Posted by Sean Ski View Post

      Although freelance writing used to be profitable (it still is for well established individuals) it's pretty much slave wages for workers overseas at this point...

      Freelance writing can be PROFITABLE for anyone, regardless where you live, as long as you play by the success rules. These include; top communication with clients, top quality work, customer satisfaction and of course the ability to deliver on your promises with every single project you do.

      I hear so much being said on the lack of pay in the industry. Most freelance writers got it all wrong. They don't understand the powers that lie near their feet because all they focus on is the dollar sign.

      Ultimately it is your experience, your ability and your expertise that decide what you can fetch as a writer.

      Cheers
      Monika
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  • Profile picture of the author michellegreen
    What Monika said!
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  • Profile picture of the author sainshea
    m sorry to say but yes this is the hard reality, i used to charge $8-10 per 500 word article earlier [ my team wrote it for me ] but from last one year or so i have to reduce the price to $2 or even less to stay in market. good times have gone and now we can even find some good writers for $1 per article
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  • Profile picture of the author Karan Goel
    Well, $1 is really very low
    for an original article. You
    charge around $1.5 per 100
    words.
    This is feasible for most of
    the writers and their clients.

    Thanks
    K
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  • Profile picture of the author Mo Faisal
    $1 for an original article is really less. just laugh it off and move ahead.
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  • Profile picture of the author thinkbest
    $1 per unique article? Ubelieveable!!! Just imagine, for freelance translator here in Indonesia we earn $2.5 per page. Translating don't mean think too much, like what people do in making or writing an article.
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  • Profile picture of the author Anthony J Namata
    Those are absolutely normal rates...but only for Indians, I'm afraid. It must cost absolutely nothing to live in India. Maybe we ought to consider relocating there to keep up with inflation?
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  • Profile picture of the author anuj291
    REJECT
    REJECT
    REJECT
    Signature
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  • Profile picture of the author Bev Clement
    <shakes head and walks away> Mike you don't understand because you don't want to understand. You have blog post, and your need for blog posts firmly in your head. You don't want to talk about anything else. I've have IMers pay me $0.10 to $3 a word in the past month. Warriors who wanted decentl writing done. Yes, some were for blog posts, others not.

    Tell you what, ask Paul Myers for a copy of his last email "finding your voice". You might find/learn something of interest.
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    • Profile picture of the author LittleMike
      Originally Posted by Bev Clement View Post

      <shakes head and walks away> Mike you don't understand because you don't want to understand. You have blog post, and your need for blog posts firmly in your head. You don't want to talk about anything else. I've have IMers pay me $0.10 to $3 a word in the past month. Warriors who wanted decentl writing done. Yes, some were for blog posts, others not.

      Tell you what, ask Paul Myers for a copy of his last email "finding your voice". You might find/learn something of interest.
      It's not that I don't want to understand, Bev, it's that we all seem to be talking about different things. How I see it is that a blog post, an article, a sales letter, a squeeze page... these are all different things with different values for different markets. My original question was very specific - how does a $5 blog post perform any better than a $50 blog post?
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      • Profile picture of the author Bev Clement
        Originally Posted by LittleMike View Post

        It's not that I don't want to understand, Bev, it's that we all seem to be talking about different things. How I see it is that a blog post, an article, a sales letter, a squeeze page... these are all different things with different values for different markets. My original question was very specific - how does a $5 blog post perform any better than a $50 blog post?
        Now we come to specifics. You're asking the wrong people the question.

        If I wrote you a cheap $5 article for a blog post or EZA it wouldn't be the same level of information if I wrote it for $30.

        How does it perform better, no idea, because I don't have access to the data required to know the answers. I know how many times it has been seen on EZA but not how many people bought because of it.

        All I can say is we have clients who have done the cheap route, and come to us because they wanted something better. They told us the ROI was much higher on the articles we wrote for them, than the cheap articles they had written.
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        • Profile picture of the author LittleMike
          Originally Posted by Bev Clement View Post

          Now we come to specifics. You're asking the wrong people the question.

          If I wrote you a cheap $5 article for a blog post or EZA it wouldn't be the same level of information if I wrote it for $30.

          How does it perform better, no idea, because I don't have access to the data required to know the answers. I know how many times it has been seen on EZA but not how many people bought because of it.

          All I can say is we have clients who have done the cheap route, and come to us because they wanted something better. They told us the ROI was much higher on the articles we wrote for them, than the cheap articles they had written.
          Thank you, Bev. That is a much clearer answer than I've gotten this entire thread. The clients that asked for better quality work, do you happen to know if these were all posted on the same site? That part is important.
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  • Profile picture of the author LittleMike
    I just heard a click and had an AHA moment. I think I finally understand what CDarklord and Dan were trying to explain to me. Listen to this and tell me if it makes sense:

    A quality article gives better results over a mediocre article because people want to read it more.

    Let me clarify. The reason a quality article can topple SERPs results is not because it directly affects anything necessarily. It's because a quality article is more interesting to readers. That means more sites will aggregate the article, link back to it, social bookmark it, etc. because they genuinely like it. This of course ups it's ranking in the SERPs getting more eyeballs in front of it, who in turn socially bookmark it, etc... and the ball keeps rolling on it.

    I was looking at it from a completely different perspective. I'm thinking - well if it's keyword optimized, isn't spun, even if it's okay it's still original content and that helps. I didn't put myself in the shoes of the *reader*

    CDarklord, Dan, is that what you guys were talking about? If that's the case, I apologize profusely, I was wrong. Please forgive my noobness sometimes.
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    • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
      Originally Posted by LittleMike View Post

      A quality article gives better results over a mediocre article because people want to read it more.
      YES! There it is! Hope springs eternal, and sometimes it pays off.

      If that's the case, I apologize profusely, I was wrong. Please forgive my noobness sometimes.
      We've all been there. In fact, this light bulb only went on for me a few weeks ago as it relates to the SERPs - and the result is the WSO you can see in my sig (at this writing). It really is a big "AHA!" moment once you figure this out, and as far as an apology goes, all I ever wanted was for you to have that moment.
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      • Profile picture of the author LittleMike
        Originally Posted by CDarklock View Post

        YES! There it is! Hope springs eternal, and sometimes it pays off.



        We've all been there. In fact, this light bulb only went on for me a few weeks ago as it relates to the SERPs - and the result is the WSO you can see in my sig (at this writing). It really is a big "AHA!" moment once you figure this out, and as far as an apology goes, all I ever wanted was for you to have that moment.
        Yay! Great stuff! On a side note, I think I figured out why I had such a mental block. You and Dan were telling me the what of it all (one article can make a difference) and showing me the results (see these sites?) but I still couldn't figure out the WHY of it. Then it hit me like a truck and everything else made total sense.

        I have a related question now that I understand all this more. Why in Galaxy's name would anyone waste their money on piss-poor articles if it's only "filler" and no meat? That sounds kind of counter-intuitive now.
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        • Profile picture of the author Bev Clement
          Originally Posted by LittleMike View Post

          Yay! Great stuff! On a side note, I think I figured out why I had such a mental block. You and Dan were telling me the what of it all (one article can make a difference) and showing me the results (see these sites?) but I still couldn't figure out the WHY of it. Then it hit me like a truck and everything else made total sense.

          I have a related question now that I understand all this more. Why in Galaxy's name would anyone waste their money on piss-poor articles if it's only "filler" and no meat? That sounds kind of counter-intuitive now.
          A couple of reasons.

          Some are told that only cheap is the way to go.

          Some are too cheap to buy decent articles ... but they expect to be higher pay for their products.

          Some don't have the money to buy decent articles.

          Some don't have the light bulb moment.

          Basically from the writers point of view, they take advice from the wrong people.
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          • Profile picture of the author LittleMike
            Originally Posted by Bev Clement View Post

            A couple of reasons.

            Some are told that only cheap is the way to go.

            Some are too cheap to buy decent articles ... but they expect to be higher pay for their products.

            Some don't have the money to buy decent articles.

            Some don't have the light bulb moment.

            Basically from the writers point of view, they take advice from the wrong people.
            Honestly every single "guru" that has ever talked about article marketing says you can get 10 articles for $50 (or some similar price range). Now I can't exactly say that they've lied to us all, but it seems they left out the part where that $5 article is not going to be as helpful to you as a $50 article would be.

            You guys are all saying one good article can beat 5 bad ones, right? So if someone only had that $50 to spend on articles, they're better off buying just the one and hopefully making enough of a return to fund the others, right?
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            • Profile picture of the author Dan C. Rinnert
              Originally Posted by LittleMike View Post

              I just heard a click and had an AHA moment. I think I finally understand what CDarklord and Dan were trying to explain to me. Listen to this and tell me if it makes sense:

              A quality article gives better results over a mediocre article because people want to read it more.
              Bingo!!!

              Originally Posted by LittleMike View Post

              You guys are all saying one good article can beat 5 bad ones, right? So if someone only had that $50 to spend on articles, they're better off buying just the one and hopefully making enough of a return to fund the others, right?
              I'd say that, generally, yes.

              Occasionally, you may find a $50/article calibre writer writing articles for $5 because they're new, don't know how to price their work, etc. So, if you can manage to find them, you're way ahead of the game. But, $50/article calibre writers wouldn't stay at $5 for long. They'd either raise their price or get into another line of work.

              But, in general, I think a $50 article is going to be a better deal than 10 $5 articles.

              But, if you only have $50 to spend, you better do a great job of researching the writer you select. Not every writer that charges $50/article is a $50/article calibre writer.
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            • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
              Originally Posted by LittleMike View Post

              You guys are all saying one good article can beat 5 bad ones, right? So if someone only had that $50 to spend on articles, they're better off buying just the one and hopefully making enough of a return to fund the others, right?
              Well, there's a red flag there.

              Once you have a certain level of experience using articles to drive traffic, you can order one article and drive traffic, because you know how to do proper keyword research.

              But until you get that experience, you're going to do a lot of crap research.

              So rather than spend your $50 on one good article that's probably based on crap research, you're actually better off ordering bad articles based on crap research until your research isn't crap anymore. Even a bad article will perform in the short term, but for long-term results, you need better articles.

              The key is to use those crap articles to find the keywords and niches that outperform all the others. For $500, you can test a hundred approaches, and cherry-pick the ten winners for $50 articles. If you bought $50 articles for all hundred approaches, you'd spend $5,000 and most of them would suck anyway. By using crap articles for your testing phase, you can get ONLY the top ten working with high-end writing, and only spend $1,000 doing it.

              That leaves you $4,000 to test another 400 approaches, and instead of coming out with the 20 "workhorse" sites that the Pareto principle implies, you come out with 40 workhorse sites... but it costs you the same amount of money, and every single high-end article you've got is a top performer.
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  • Profile picture of the author LittleMike
    Okay, so the short answer is yes $50 articles are better and you should use them, but not at first. Makes a lot of sense. If you already know what your performing/converting keywords are, then check out a *good* $50 article writer and use them to scale your business, not build it. Use the cheapie articles to find out what those converting keywords actually are first.

    Great advice, guys. Thank you.
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