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The only marketing stat that matters

by DoWhatWorks
26 replies
I don't get what's going on in the marketing world these days.

Maybe I'm just missing something, but I could care less about "Likes", "Shares", "Cost per Click", "Click through Rate", "User Engagement", "Tweets", "Re-Tweets", "Status Updates", and "Opt-Ins".

The only metric I care about is ROI. Yet, one marketer after another keeps posting up videos, showing how their latest and greatest plugin got them 10,000 Likes. Who cares? Seriously, what is the point of making a video like that, without showing what type of ROI it resulted in?

Marketers are starting to talk about opt-ins, "Likes", CTR, CPC, etc., as if those stats equal income, without ever connecting these meaningless stats to the money it puts in their pockets. These marketers are starting to talk as if Facebook is sending out checks to people, for every "Like" they get. They're starting to speak as if we all win some financial reward for getting a penny click.

This madness needs to stop, because all that matters at the end of the day is how much money you made. I'm not in online marketing to get 10,000 likes. I'm in marketing to make money.

I don't get why or how it's become fashionable for marketers to post and email out a video, showing how their post went viral, or how they got likes, re-tweets, penny clicks, and a high CTR, without then showing what the ROI was on all of those superficial stats. It's like they're showing us half a movie and acting as if they're telling us everything that we need to know.

ROI is all that matters and it's all that ever will matter. I'm sure, for many marketers, they've been able to put a monetary value on a like, share, etc. and they know how much these things are worth to them over the long term. It would be nice, however, if they let us all in on that, though, because I could care less about how many "Likes" they got, how low their CPC is, or how high their CTR is.

The fact that they never connect the dots over to show what their ROI is makes me wonder if any of these "experts" are making one red cent with the latest plugin they're telling us to buy, which just got them a bajillion "Likes".

I wish the online marketing community would collectively get back on track and focus on the only thing that matters: ROI. Discussing all of these other things, without correlating it to ROI, is a waste of oxygen.

-Terry
#marketing #matters #stat
  • Profile picture of the author SpicyRobby
    Pretty much the same goes with traffic numbers - everybody assumes without questioning that traffic = money, but in reality nothing could be further from the truth! It's all about how you can CONVERT that traffic into sales, and I have to agree with you 100% that social media traffic is notorious for being short-stay/low engagement/low conversion traffic.
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  • Profile picture of the author fin
    Doesn't sound like you're thinking long-term tbh.
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    • Profile picture of the author DoWhatWorks
      Of course I'm thinking long-term, fin, but I just want to know what the long-term ROI is going to be. Otherwise, it's all a waste of time and money. Until marketers can start to show some ROI, long-term or otherwise, they should take it easy with showing everyone how many likes they got. Otherwise, there's no way to put any value on those stats. The point of doing marketing is to make money.


      Originally Posted by fin View Post

      Doesn't sound like you're thinking long-term tbh.
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      • Profile picture of the author fin
        Originally Posted by DoWhatWorks View Post

        Of course I'm thinking long-term, fin, but I just want to know what the long-term ROI is going to be. Otherwise, it's all a waste of time and money. Until marketers can start to show some ROI, long-term or otherwise, they should take it easy with showing everyone how many likes they got. Otherwise, there's no way to put any value on those stats. The point of doing marketing is to make money.

        How about someone tweets a link and 1,000 people see it. One of those people runs a club in the niche. They call all their friends and they tell their friends. 6 months down the line your income suddenly starts increasing.

        That is only a basic example, but it's something you can't track. But all those little wins can help build your business over time.

        Thinking about nothing but ROI is very short-term thinking imo. It's important, but I'd rather spread the word as much as possible at the same time even if the results are impossible to track.
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        • Profile picture of the author DoWhatWorks
          Well, I see what you're saying, but that is just like shooting in the dark. You can't manage what you can't measure.

          Originally Posted by fin View Post

          How about someone tweets a link and 1,000 people see it. One of those people runs a club in the niche. They call all their friends and they tell their friends. 6 months down the line your income suddenly starts increasing.

          That is only a basic example, but it's something you can't track. But all those little wins can help build your business over time.

          Thinking about nothing but ROI is very short-term thinking imo. It's important, but I'd rather spread the word as much as possible at the same time even if the results are impossible to track.
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          • Profile picture of the author fin
            Originally Posted by DoWhatWorks View Post

            Well, I see what you're saying, but that is just like shooting in the dark. You can't manage what you can't measure.
            I prefer to call it building your brand.
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        • Profile picture of the author fin
          Originally Posted by Ken_Caudill View Post

          Hope doesn't pay the bills.
          I'm not sure if you misread what I was saying or if you're trying to be funny.
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          • Profile picture of the author fin
            Originally Posted by Ken_Caudill View Post

            I read it, understood it and commented on it.
            Good.

            I thought you might have skipped over the last sentence, but in actual fact you're just ****...
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            • Profile picture of the author fin
              Originally Posted by Ken_Caudill View Post

              There, there. Have another piece of pie. It'll make you feel better.

              Just reach up into the sky and get it.
              Haha, I'm impressed you carried on with your jokes.

              Well done, sir.
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      • Profile picture of the author JRJWrites
        Originally Posted by DoWhatWorks View Post

        Of course I'm thinking long-term, fin, but I just want to know what the long-term ROI is going to be. Otherwise, it's all a waste of time and money.
        I'd definitely agree with your viewpoint. As IMers, we often get caught up on the traffic/views/likes, etc. I saw some guy go crazy over selling a site for $5K....after investing hundreds and hundreds of hours in it. For him, the hourly rate worked out to be nothing more than $20-$30; nothing to start screaming about.
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  • Profile picture of the author timpears
    I got to agree with the op, but one has to assume that if you know how to get that activity on your posts, then you should be able to convert it. You have to get that activity before you can get the money.

    But bottom line, this is just people working towards selling products to shoe people how to do these things. Converting them ins different in most any case, so that is up to the buyer.
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    • Profile picture of the author DoWhatWorks
      That's right, Tim and you are telling the other half of the story that many of these marketers leave out: The actual conversions are going to come down to the actual product that ultimately gets offered to the market you're getting the likes from. To me, it's funny because about 4 or 5 years ago, a big name marketer would shoot a video, showing something they did. Then, they'd show how that "something" they did put money in their account and they'd show the money in their account by the end of the video. Today, a marketer makes a video that is basically, "Here, look how many Likes I got when I used this plugin. The End." To me, that seems like a step backwards.


      Originally Posted by timpears View Post

      I got to agree with the op, but one has to assume that if you know how to get that activity on your posts, then you should be able to convert it. You have to get that activity before you can get the money.

      But bottom line, this is just people working towards selling products to shoe people how to do these things. Converting them ins different in most any case, so that is up to the buyer.
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  • Profile picture of the author dewayneboyd
    Originally Posted by DoWhatWorks View Post

    I don't get what's going on in the marketing world these days.

    Maybe I'm just missing something, but I could care less about "Likes", "Shares", "Cost per Click", "Click through Rate", "User Engagement", "Tweets", "Re-Tweets", "Status Updates", and "Opt-Ins".

    The only metric I care about is ROI. Yet, one marketer after another keeps posting up videos, showing how their latest and greatest plugin got them 10,000 Likes. Who cares? Seriously, what is the point of making a video like that, without showing what type of ROI it resulted in?

    Marketers are starting to talk about opt-ins, "Likes", CTR, CPC, etc., as if those stats equal income, without ever connecting these meaningless stats to the money it puts in their pockets. These marketers are starting to talk as if Facebook is sending out checks to people, for every "Like" they get. They're starting to speak as if we all win some financial reward for getting a penny click.

    This madness needs to stop, because all that matters at the end of the day is how much money you made. I'm not in online marketing to get 10,000 likes. I'm in marketing to make money.

    I don't get why or how it's become fashionable for marketers to post and email out a video, showing how their post went viral, or how they got likes, re-tweets, penny clicks, and a high CTR, without then showing what the ROI was on all of those superficial stats. It's like they're showing us half a movie and acting as if they're telling us everything that we need to know.

    ROI is all that matters and it's all that ever will matter. I'm sure, for many marketers, they've been able to put a monetary value on a like, share, etc. and they know how much these things are worth to them over the long term. It would be nice, however, if they let us all in on that, though, because I could care less about how many "Likes" they got, how low their CPC is, or how high their CTR is.

    The fact that they never connect the dots over to show what their ROI is makes me wonder if any of these "experts" are making one red cent with the latest plugin they're telling us to buy, which just got them a bajillion "Likes".

    I wish the online marketing community would collectively get back on track and focus on the only thing that matters: ROI. Discussing all of these other things, without correlating it to ROI, is a waste of oxygen.

    -Terry
    Unfortunately, it has always been fashionable to give these meaningless numbers. Before, people boasted of having 50,000 subscribers or whatever. But some of the lists were full of bouncing emails and other junk. If you already know how to make money, stop watching this nonsense and just go about your business.
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  • Profile picture of the author dewayneboyd
    Just read your last paragraph again. The marketing world has never been on track as far as the make-money niche. It has always been the same from the beginning - unreplicatable theories or unreplicatable case studies. In the end, you have to take all the information and devise your own business plan. The marketing courses have always been full of overhype and misleading data and other information.

    Quick Tip:

    Most marketing tools, including plugins, themes, blah, blah, blah, are worthless unless you already have traffic. Without supplying traffic, these tools don't do anything. Hence, most marketing products, at best, may increase your ROI or conversions. But they certainly won't make you successful unless you already know how to get QUALITY traffic.
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    • Profile picture of the author DoWhatWorks
      I agree. At least in the past we could take tidbits from different places and piece together a sensible plan. This over obseesion with likes and other meaningless stats, though, has gotten completely out of hand. Getting a like or a penny click is now spoken about as if it has some incredible value for all of us. In my opinion, there's becoming less and less to get value from, as the marketers keep talking about everything except ROI, which is really all that matters.

      Originally Posted by dewayneboyd View Post

      Just read your last paragraph again. The marketing world has never been on track as far as the make-money niche. It has always been the same from the beginning - unreplicatable theories or unreplicatable case studies. In the end, you have to take all the information and devise your own business plan. The marketing courses have always been full of overhype and misleading data and other information.

      Quick Tip:

      Most marketing tools, including plugins, themes, blah, blah, blah, are worthless unless you already have traffic. Without supplying traffic, these tools don't do anything. Hence, most marketing products, at best, may increase your ROI or conversions. But they certainly won't make you successful unless you already know how to get QUALITY traffic.
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  • Profile picture of the author Steve B
    Terry,

    From this and other threads, it's pretty obvious that you're a "bottom line" kind of person - don't confuse me with all the details, just show me the money. Others want to learn about and ask questions regarding specific details of marketing topics that interest them.

    Originally Posted by DoWhatWorks View Post

    Maybe I'm just missing something, but I could care less about "Likes", "Shares", "Cost per Click", "Click through Rate", "User Engagement", "Tweets", "Re-Tweets", "Status Updates", and "Opt-Ins".
    This is a marketing forum where we discuss ideas, strategies, tactics, and marketing execution, often in detail.

    The fact that you don't want to talk about certain aspects of marketing doesn't mean that others have no interest. If you don't want to hear about CPC, opt-ins, and tweets then just disregard those threads . . . it's a simple and easy solution!

    Originally Posted by DoWhatWorks View Post

    This madness needs to stop, because all that matters at the end of the day is how much money you made. ROI is all that matters and it's all that ever will matter.
    What a boring and worthless forum this would be if everyone only talked about their "ROI" and how much money they made.

    To me, those are personal business numbers that most legitimate marketers keep private. Who cares if I made $1,000 or $10,000 or $100,000 this month or this year? Who cares if I made 100%, 200% or 50% ROI? It is not relevant to you or your business.

    What is important in a forum like this is that we share ideas, approaches, methods, tactics, and results that others can learn from and try/test/track for themselves to see if it helps them. They will be the ones to integrate the new ideas into their marketing and see how affects their ROI and bottom line.

    I'm saying that the details of what, why and how we do things in our marketing are much more important to discuss than simply how much money we make as a return on our investment.

    The best to all of you.

    Steve
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    • Profile picture of the author DoWhatWorks
      Hi Steve,

      No, you missed my point Steve B, which is my fault because I didn't properly clarify what I was saying:

      I am referring to marketers that try to sell us products based on making a video that shows us how many likes a product may have gotten for them, in their particular market. Of course, here on the Warrior Forum and other forums people should be talking about all of these metrics. My issue is just with the general trend of the gurus, towards putting such a high value on things like likes, which are going to have very varying degrees of value to different people and different businesses. To me, that's just telling half a story when showing a like and trying to sell a product based on how many likes it got them. My issue is more with the selling of the latest and greatest plugin, showing how it gets all sorts of likes and implying that a like is money in the bank. I'm totally in favor of the sharing of ideas. What I'm against is a video that pushes a product, showing how their product got a bunch of likes for one particular guru, and giving folks the impression that their bank account will be flooded with cash if they pick up said plugin, because the plugin will get them likes and the likes will result in money for anyone who purchases the plugin.

      -Terry

      Originally Posted by Steve B View Post

      Terry,

      From this and other threads, it's pretty obvious that you're a "bottom line" kind of person - don't confuse me with all the details, just show me the money. Others want to learn about and ask questions regarding specific details of marketing topics that interest them.



      This is a marketing forum where we discuss ideas, strategies, tactics, and marketing execution, often in detail.

      The fact that you don't want to talk about certain aspects of marketing doesn't mean that others have no interest. If you don't want to hear about CPC, opt-ins, and tweets then just disregard those threads . . . it's a simple and easy solution!



      What a boring and worthless forum this would be if everyone only talked about their "ROI" and how much money they made.

      To me, those are personal business numbers that most legitimate marketers keep private. Who cares if I made $1,000 or $10,000 or $100,000 this month or this year? Who cares if I made 100%, 200% or 50% ROI? It is not relevant to you or your business.

      What is important in a forum like this is that we share ideas, approaches, methods, tactics, and results that others can learn from and try/test/track for themselves to see if it helps them. They will be the ones to integrate the new ideas into their marketing and see how affects their ROI and bottom line.

      I'm saying that the details of what, why and how we do things in our marketing are much more important to discuss than simply how much money we make as a return on our investment.

      The best to all of you.

      Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author Randall Magwood
    Originally Posted by DoWhatWorks View Post

    Maybe I'm just missing something, but I could care less about "Likes", "Shares", "Cost per Click", "Click through Rate", "User Engagement", "Tweets", "Re-Tweets", "Status Updates", and "Opt-Ins".
    Yeah i only care about sales, and backend revenue. When i accomplished both, everything else fell into order... the only thing that was left was automation.
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    • Profile picture of the author Michael Shook
      Its important to build your brand, nothing wrong with that. And that "top of mind" marketing can bring in revenue when you become the person who everyone thinks of when they are thinking about buying a particular product or service.

      There's a reason why the big companies allot a certain percentage of profits or a fixed amount of money to a branding campaign, there is almost no way to track how much the bottom line is impacted. Nothing wrong with advertising your business that way, especially if you have the money.

      But the assumption that you are going to earn a lot of money just by having likes or retweets or whatever just isn't solid. Unless you've already got a business in place big enough to do brand building with, you might be better off skipping those products that help you do that.
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      • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
        Terry, you forgot to mention search rankings in your list...

        I think that the root cause of what you describe has two main causes.

        1) Said marketers have no appreciable ROI for themselves, but they have managed to learn something that more advanced marketers can turn into ROI.

        2) Blame the curse of knowledge. These folks know that, for example, cost per click can be related to cost of sales, which can be related to ROI. They simply assume that everyone else sees those connections, so they don't think to mention them.

        Of course, there are souls who have lost track of the bottom line, but they tend to go broke or join group 2 pretty quickly. I know my bank wouldn't think it was funny if I tried to pay my mortgage by sending in a screen shot showing my site at #1 for "cure genital warts" or something...
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  • Profile picture of the author Rob Maggs
    My Time is my biggest ROI, and I'm finding I need to put in much more than I want, We have been conditioned to create front end products for a steal, all well and good if you are churning out something that hasn't cost you in time or money.

    But look at the way affiliate offers are converting since Google hammered us with their "promotions tab" The dimesale culture sucks, it brings crappy products to the market, plus it means developers are thinking of a front end product, that they can give 60% to 100% to affiliates so they can sell an oto to make their money...and man how people complain about that!

    You are right about the madness needing to stop, but it means a complete rethinking about how Internet Marketing works. Unfortunately getting those 10000 likes might be necessary these days with organic seo taking a real nosedive. I belive we are being forced into a situation where we have to pay for our advertising, or maybe I am completely nieve.
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  • Profile picture of the author brutecky
    Umm there is one very huge reason people dont talk about ROI. Because normally people are talking in general and have no idea what your selling or what your product costs are. How can anyone talk about ROI when they dont know these two things?

    So people talk about CTR / CPC etc. Its prity obvouse that a higher CTR and a lower CPC will increase your RIO. But to specify a RIO requires intimate knowledge of another persons business, which people in a general discussion wont have.
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    • Profile picture of the author DoWhatWorks
      Hi brutecky,

      That's a good point. I hadn't thought of that. I do think, though, that if someone is trying to sell a Wordpress plugin, which supposedly generates a million likes overnight, they could at least show some example of how many unit sales those likes turned into for them, without revealing their niche or dollar amounts.

      My main gripe is that there is so much talk in sales videos and product promotions about how these whiz bang plugins get all of these likes, shares, etc., but very few people ever show how all of that social engagement turns into sales.

      The one person who I have to say is the exception to this is Don Wilson. I'm not affiliated with him in anyway and I've never bought any of his products. What I like about his sales videos for his Facebook-based products is that he will show the Likes and low CPC he got and then he'll complete the train of thought by showing how he monetized his fan page and how many sales he got. I just wish more of the gurus would follow his style in this regard, when promoting products that are related to social media.

      -Terry

      Originally Posted by brutecky View Post

      Umm there is one very huge reason people dont talk about ROI. Because normally people are talking in general and have no idea what your selling or what your product costs are. How can anyone talk about ROI when they dont know these two things?

      So people talk about CTR / CPC etc. Its prity obvouse that a higher CTR and a lower CPC will increase your RIO. But to specify a RIO requires intimate knowledge of another persons business, which people in a general discussion wont have.
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  • Profile picture of the author Matthew Anton
    You are thinking big picture, but not BIG enough. Small companies need to focus on ROI, while mega companies such as McDonalds, Chiptole, Walmart can launch brand based campaigns to win the hearts and minds of their customers.

    At this level of success you can't directly gauge marketing ROI for every single action, ad campaign, flier, commercial, etc - they try but it's nearly impossible.

    ROI is all that matters if you can't afford to think long term like fin suggested. I spent months and hundreds of dollars on a case study about how I became the #1 most published Google author. Using your logic I would have never dared take this step as it violates the direct ROI model, but I've gained social equity, connections, and of course new business which is not easily measurable.
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